Super fast app! PhD sooner then expected

[Petypet]

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I have had many good conversations on here and thank you in advance for any help.

So my situation, as some may know will be PhD to MD. HOWEVER, up till yesterday my professor thought I would graduate in spring of 2012. Yesterday we had the conversation that I can and will be graduating in spring of 2011 due to a recent string of first author publications (I work in glycobiology).

So my situation described again.
3.6 undergrad gpa
3.6 grad gpa
5-6 first author publications
no mcat (taking sept 11)
maybe 30 hours volunteer experience (planned on applying in another year)
missing gen bio I


So basically to "beef" up my application I need more clinical experience and to do hammer the mcat, easier said then done.


That said, in the long term will it hurt me to spend time going through the application process now, accumulate my LoRs, and all necessary stuff so that once I get my MCAT score in October I can submit several applications. There is a chance I won't get in, maybe for lack of clinical experience or if I do poor on the MCAT, but I think this round I would apply to 5 or 6 schools due to finances. I have found several schools that will allow me to transfer upper level bio courses to replace the Gen bio I course, and other schools that will admit as long as I take the course prior to matriculation.

good idea? bad idea? After yesterday's news about me going to graduate and my professor supporting me 100% is terrific news. On the other hand if I don't get in to medical school in for the fall of 2011 I can remain with the lab or maybe get an internship/postdoc just to kill time.

 

[ChemMed]

Congrats on getting done sooner, but I don't know what to say. You will be applying a little later and that may or may not hurt your chances. I also don't know what you MCAT may be. At the very least, just go for it if its what you really want, but re applying may not look the best? People do it, but having to get your LOR's two years in a row may be a bit of a pain. If you want to do it then start you AMCAS or AACOMAS now. Transcripts take a while and verification will also take a while.

 

[MexicanDr]

Go for it, nothing to lose! If, not accepted these schools can even advice you on what is needed for you to be a candidate for acceptance =)

 

[Petypet]

Getting a little stressed now, it seems like my Prof told me at the worst time that I can graduate as far as wanting to get into medical school.

Basically what I am looking at is I take the MCAT Sept 11, and receive the score Oct 13th at the earliest. At that point I immediately send in the AMCAS application for MD apps, in hopes they clear by the November 15th deadline most schools have. I have already filled everything in, to the best of my ability, and have requested my transcripts.

I now also have 4 LOR: 1 undergrad prof (did research for 2 years under him), my PhD PI, a post doc in the lab (maybe or maybe not), my "boss" when I was a teaching assistant, and possibly a 5th MD resident.

I am estimating now, that I will apply to 9 MD and 2 DO schools in my two "home" states.

Now I need to write a juicy personal statement, and do I explain how this application cycle was unanticipated and hence the delay?


Does this sound reasonable, and what unforeseeable issues (in my eyes) should I be watching out for? Or should I save the cash/embarrassment and put together a more solid app next year?

 

[Zarika]

Congrats on finishing your PhD. Just so you know, you can submit your AMCAS as soon as you're ready and just indicate the date that you will be taking the MCATs. Once your score is in, it will be filled in automatically. That way your application can be verified. It can take several weeks for AMCAS to verify your application, so I wouldn't wait for your MCAT scores to submit.

However, the disadvantage of that is that you won't know your MCAT score before you submit. I don't know if your MCAT score will have an effect on your school choice or not, that's up to you.

What you could do is add one school now, and get your AMCAS verified, and then, once your MCAT score is in, just add the rest of the schools.

 

[QofQuimica]

Congrats on being so close to finishing!

My answer depends in part on your MCAT score. Your GPA is fine (3.6 is the national avg for MD matriculants). But considering that your ECs are pretty weak right now, I think if it were me that I'd wait the extra year. Keep in mind also that PhD committees can be fickle. I ended up graduating a semester later than my PI said I would.

Regardless of what you decide, best of luck with your defense and apps. 🙂

 

[Petypet]

Thanks for the replies. The way I am looking at it right now, is my MCAT will make or break my MD acceptance. I do have some misc shadowing, volunteering, a lot of golf, scholarships for research, music, but nothing extremely clinical. Its very tough to document conversations that I've had with fellow researchers that have gone the MD route.

Anyway, Zarika, I can submit my AMCAS (after I have transcripts and LOR verified) asap, then just have the MCAT automatically entered once it is scored? AMCAS will send that score ASAP to the school I have already entered, then I will apply to more schools afterwards and there will be no delay in those apps? Excuse the ignorance, I haven't done all the research yet, since I wasn't planning on doing this until next May. While my MCAT is a concern, its more of a concern to me to not get everything in by the deadlines than it is to hand in a poor score.

At the same time I will apply DO, since I am a notoriously bad test taker as it makes no difference where I go just as long as I get down the road. That said, even if I don't get in anywhere, next application cycle will be more solid with ECs and experience.


And Q, I was told two days ago that I can graduate in spring, and I already have the LOR from my PI! Everything is 100% except for my dissertation, and thusfar I have never heard of anyone failing a final defense. Anyway, I'm pumped!

Thanks for the help

 

[murfettie]

submit now, wait for the score later.
it'll have your verified.

 

[catswym]

Congrats on being so close to finishing!

My answer depends in part on your MCAT score. Your GPA is fine (3.6 is the national avg for MD matriculants). But considering that your ECs are pretty weak right now, I think if it were me that I'd wait the extra year. Keep in mind also that PhD committees can be fickle. I ended up graduating a semester later than my PI said I would.

Regardless of what you decide, best of luck with your defense and apps. 🙂

Agree with above as someone who was in your position last year and didn't rock the MCAT (31, decent but not decent enough for october).

Waiting another year isn't horrible and then you won't feel rushed. But, I also know how much you probably want it right now. 🙂

 

[Petypet]

Well unfortunately I won't get a 33+ but would probably be happy with a 31. The more I relax and think about this, the more I would like to have a cushion year to have a solid application to enhance my chance at getting accepted into the school of my choice. I think the worst decision I could make is apply to 15 schools, get in to the last one of my choosing and attend just because I got in. Anyway, I will put everything I got into this application cycle, and if things don't work then I have at least learned from this experience.



/pray for good mcat 🙂

thanks again

 

[mspeedwagon]

In your shoes, I would personally plan for a year off to build clinical and volunteer experience. What I haven't seen yet is what your in-state is?

If your in-state is CA for example, then applying in October with 3.6/30 would be you at a huge disadvantage. If your in-state is North Dakota on the other hand, it may not be a bad idea to apply.

Just realize with an application submitted in October you are going to walk into interviews, and like my gf was, told straight out that "We have already filled all the seats, but we wanted to interview a few more folks. The best you will do is a waitlist at this point." And she was applying with a 4.0/32. Rejected from everywhere when she appied late.

You are submitting a relatively average application late. Instead of doing this and having to work much harder to be a better re-applicant (re-write PS, re-evaluate LORs, and pay application fees all over again, as well as re-take the MCAT if needed), spent a year doing it right.

The ONLY way I would consider submitting this cycle in October is if you are likely to get a 35+ on the MCAT.

 

[Zarika]

Anyway, Zarika, I can submit my AMCAS (after I have transcripts and LOR verified) asap, then just have the MCAT automatically entered once it is scored? AMCAS will send that score ASAP to the school I have already entered, then I will apply to more schools afterwards and there will be no delay in those apps? Excuse the ignorance, I haven't done all the research yet, since I wasn't planning on doing this until next May. While my MCAT is a concern, its more of a concern to me to not get everything in by the deadlines than it is to hand in a poor score.

Thanks for the help

Check with other posters to be 100% sure, but my understanding is that it is possible to submit your AMCAS without an MCAT score, while indicating the date you're writing the exam in one of the check boxes, and once your scores come in they will automatically be entered into your AMCAS.

I know I took the test twice...once in June and once in August. When I submitted my application in early July my June score was on the application and I indicated I was retaking the test in August. When my scores from the August exam came in, they just showed up in my AMCAS, I didn't have to input them and the schools received them.

EDIT: I don't know anything about the DO application process though, so I don't know if MCAT scores work the same way or not.

Good Luck!

 

[Petypet]

Right now I reside in Ohio, but have residency in another state (was for insurance purposes). I plan on applying to my other state's in state schools and also the state I reside in, as I can immediately claim in state in Ohio since I have always lived there. This has been confirmed by an admissions expert at my school.

While I know SDN probably produces a very good batch of students but after reading this I can't help but feel like theres no reason not to at least apply. Everything is completed but my personal statement and MCAT, and while I don't have a ton of shadowing and minimal volunteering everything else is fine. My transcripts have been requested and AMCAS will receive them and my letters within the next few weeks, then apply. After further research it looks like Zarika is correct, that I can have my AMCAS verified asap then apply to schools after the MCAT is entered. The only thing left to "stress" over is the MCAT, because everything now is out of my power. If I do poorly on the MCAT, I just redo the whole thing next May, having then built up more volunteer and shadowing hours. Honestly the MCAT and volunteering/shadowing are the only things left I can see that I can add to my resume, as I work 60-80 hours on my PhD.


You have to figure a good chunk of students apply late and still get in every year, even below to average applications. I personally know several medical students that are in the same boat as me but don't have a PhD in a medically related field and got in with a SDN's subpar application. I am applying to a few "top notch" schools which I agree will require a 34isih MCAT on, but several other Ohio schools (and even the TN) schools have an average of 30, and DOs require even lower. I cough up a few hundred dollars and save a year seems like its worth the risk. If I take a year to build up my resume I can still resume research in a post-doc setting but I think the risk of spending a little cash to try is better than not.

Anyway, thanks. I appreciate all the insight as it has really cleared a lot of things up.

 

[NTF]

I agree with others that the wisest move would be to wait a year. If you apply late and with weak ECs you'll risk:

1)Ending up with the stigma of being a reapplicant
It's not an insurmountable stigma, but I do think it adds additional scrutiny to your application. Because adcom's aren't just asking if you're a worthy candidate, but they're also asking, "We didn't take them last year. What's changed that makes them worth taking this year?" There often isn't a ton that you can accomplish to mitigate the reapp stigma in one year. I just think overall it will make things harder for you.

2)Getting in but your options are less than if you applied the following year with better ECs and earlier.
In the the grand scheme of things the impact to your career in being a med student next year versus the year after is almost inconsequential. But being able to pick a school you can be excited about amongst several vs. being backed into one particular school could have significant impact on the next 4 years of your life.

The advantage of waiting a year is you can also better demonstrate your commitment to this career path. Given your situation, what will likely be atop of many adcom's minds is whether this is a whim. Your limited clinical experience will be a big red flag. Having a year of EC grooming under your belt could potential turn you from a borderline to an attractive candidate.

Whatever you decide, best of luck!

 

[Petypet]

Thanks for the replies. I am planning on applying this year, but only selectively. More-less to gauge the where I stand, and if I get in great... If not, I will apply next year, and much much more broadly.

That said if someone could just review a few things for me (I no longer have access to premed advisor).

1. I have had my prof's/LoR's send in their letters, those will take some time to verify. 2 LoR from my PI's (graduate/undergrad research), 1 post doc (may not use), 1 physician, and possibly 1 former boss (from TA). I do not have an undergrad committee so I have to do the LORs this way.
2. Transcripts, I have sent out. I will be notified by AMCAS once they have been accepted. That said, do I have to do anything with the GPA, or will that calculate it for me?
3. Once all that stuff is entered, SUBMIT? But only to one school.
4. My EC's are pretty nice, I think. Let me know if any of these are unreasonable.
Floor Duty Volunteer at Riverside Memorial Hospital; 20th International Symposium on Glycoconjugates; 2008 & 2009 Midwest Carbohydrate and Glycobiology Symposium; Mentor for Undergraduate Researchers; Research for Ph.D thesis and Responsibilities; Teaching Assistant (Graduate Associate Appointment); Dean's List, Cum Laude; Undergraduate Research/Research Scholarships; Outdoor Leadership in New Zealand; Food Service worker; SHS Career Shadowing Development Certificate; Marching Band, Jazz Band, Wind Ensemble; Employee at The Oaks Golf Facility; Hobbies: golf, backpacking, snowboarding

I am not sure how many of these are too much fluff, but none of them are totally unreasonable. Some of them like my conferences and awards I describe in the "description". For example in undergrad research I was the recipient of 3 research based awards, all unique, and I lumped them into one category. That is ok? Also the conferences I went to, were actually pretty influential in my decision, having a LOT of interaction with MD/PhD and MD researchers. I felt it was appropriate to put each conference in their own category. I also presented research at these, but felt it overkill to have a "conference" tab and a "presentation" tab for the same conference.

5. My personal statement ties in my interest in cancer reseach, overcoming a near fatal car crash, and significant ties to interest in medicine/science.



So I know going in, its late. But I am doing the best I can to put together a decent application and if I don't get in, I am confident in myself to repeat this process better next time.


Is there anything else I need before I hit the VERIFY button on AMCAS?

 

[student1799]

I plan on applying to my other state's in state schools and also the state I reside in, as I can immediately claim in state in Ohio since I have always lived there.

Just a warning: AMCAS requires you to pick one, and only one, state of residence for application purposes. Before you choose, make sure that state will consider you a resident FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES (i.e. in-state tuition). In many states, gaining residency for ed purposes is much harder than getting residency for other purposes (voting, driver's licenses, taxes, etc.). For example, MA doesn't grant IS tuition until you've lived in the state for 5 years--and attending college there doesn't count. Check it out thoroughly with the state itself (don't take anyone's word about whether you qualify).


As to the bigger picture, I would urge you to wait and apply next year. You could really use the time to build up some good ECs and study for the MCAT, and you don't want to distract yourself from your PhD work just when you've hit the home stretch. Applying "selectively" this year won't help your app if it's late and/or weak, and as NTF says, being a reapplicant definitely carries a stigma. Take your time and do it right, and your chances of success will be a lot higher.

 

[Petypet]

Thanks for all your help guys! Hopefully no more questions until I either don't get in or need help deciding a specialty!