support family vs finish school

[whoopdido]

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I'm a female MS2. For various reasons (which I won't discuss here but are mostly to due with health issues), I'm not going to pursue a residency. Is it worth completing medical school? I really want that feeling of accomplishment, but should I pay $150k for a diploma I won't use (while feeling miserable and ill for the next 2.5 years)?

Another issue is that my husband and I want start a family within the next five years, but he'll be in residency for the next seven. Obviously, I will need to work after graduating med school. Should I switch into something like PA school or a Master's program in hospital administration? My thinking is that those programs would allow me to take a little better care of myself and to support our family while my husband is in residency.

Is it possible to support a family (say, 2 adults and a toddler) on a resident's salary alone? If not, will I have better luck finding a job as a non-board-certified M.D. or as a PA/MBA/something else?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Quizzical]

I'm a female MS2. For various reasons (which I won't discuss here but are mostly to due with health issues), I'm not going to pursue a residency. Is it worth completing medical school? I really want that feeling of accomplishment, but should I pay $150k for a diploma I won't use (while feeling miserable and ill for the next 2.5 years)?

Another issue is that my husband and I want start a family within the next five years, but he'll be in residency for the next seven. Obviously, I will need to work after graduating med school. Should I switch into something like PA school or a Master's program in hospital administration? My thinking is that those programs would allow me to take a little better care of myself and to support our family while my husband is in residency.

Is it possible to support a family (say, 2 adults and a toddler) on a resident's salary alone? If not, will I have better luck finding a job as a non-board-certified M.D. or as a PA/MBA/something else?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

While I acknowledge your desire to remain anonymous, there is a lot more information that you need to provide in order to provide the best guidance. Obviously there is no generic answer and without knowing your exact situation, it is tough to give any sort of tailored answer. For example, what is your issue with not being able to do residency? Does that mean you can not participate in the 3rd and 4th years of med school?

If it is strictly $$ you are concerned about, medicine is certainly not a moneymaker. 2 adults on a resident's salary is barely livable. We are talking 40-50K. Add a child and you have a set up for financial crisis. Sure you could take out additional loans, but even then you must be careful as those can easily become astronomical. HOWEVER... is it doable? Certainly. Would i do it? Heck no.

With regards to your "nonboard certified MD," I think you have two things confused. After med school, yes you get your MD. However, you are NOT LICENSED to practice medicine. You must complete a residency to get your license. Then after that you can CHOOSE to become board certified or not.

Now, if you do NOT do residency, you can probably do things like health policy. I've heard of people getting MBAs and just running medical businesses or whatnot. Then there are the crazies who do a JD and parasite off their own kind 🙂eek🙂.

As far as PA or Master's in hosp admin, I think you've got to figure that one out yourself. I believe they're two DIFFERENT things. Depends on what you like. Will they bring home the bacon? They sure will bring in more during med school+residency years.

good luck

 

[Quizzical]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=668619

you should probably have a look at this too

 

[michaelrack]

You must complete a residency to get your license. Then after that you can CHOOSE to become board certified or not.

in most states, for us grads, only completing internship is required to get a license.

You should either 1) plan to finish med school and at least internship or 2) immediately leave medical school to avoid accumlating more debt.

 

[deleted87716]

You should either 1) plan to finish med school and at least internship or 2) immediately leave medical school to avoid accumlating more debt.

Ditto that. There is no third option, unless you're an idiot.

 

[medicinesux]

This is an easy one: DROP OUT. If you have no plans on doing a residency, your MD will be essentially useless. Don't worry about forcing yourself to finish to gain a sense of accomplishment. You will instead feel immense self malaise for being burdened under a mountain of debt. Plus planning to start a family owing six figures with no attending job lined up would be a financial nightmare.

 

[whoopdido]

While I acknowledge your desire to remain anonymous, there is a lot more information that you need to provide in order to provide the best guidance. Obviously there is no generic answer and without knowing your exact situation, it is tough to give any sort of tailored answer. For example, what is your issue with not being able to do residency? Does that mean you can not participate in the 3rd and 4th years of med school?

If it is strictly $$ you are concerned about, medicine is certainly not a moneymaker. 2 adults on a resident's salary is barely livable. We are talking 40-50K. Add a child and you have a set up for financial crisis. Sure you could take out additional loans, but even then you must be careful as those can easily become astronomical. HOWEVER... is it doable? Certainly. Would i do it? Heck no.

With regards to your "nonboard certified MD," I think you have two things confused. After med school, yes you get your MD. However, you are NOT LICENSED to practice medicine. You must complete a residency to get your license. Then after that you can CHOOSE to become board certified or not.

Now, if you do NOT do residency, you can probably do things like health policy. I've heard of people getting MBAs and just running medical businesses or whatnot. Then there are the crazies who do a JD and parasite off their own kind 🙂eek🙂.

As far as PA or Master's in hosp admin, I think you've got to figure that one out yourself. I believe they're two DIFFERENT things. Depends on what you like. Will they bring home the bacon? They sure will bring in more during med school+residency years.

good luck

Perhaps I need to rephrase my question.

I do not want to do a residency. Therefore, I will not be licensed to practice medicine. I anticipate that it will be difficult to raise a family on my husband's resident salary alone. We are not taking out additional loans for living expenses (wtf?). Therefore, I will have to work. Clear so far?

People talk blithely about getting non-clinical careers writing CME material or starting up a small business or something, but I am wondering how realistic that is. You say that you've "heard about" people getting MBAs or JDs; can you provide any more information about them? Did they finish med school? residency? How did things work out for them?

In brief, will I be able to get a non-clinical job to support my family for a few years if I don't do a residency or internship (i.e. do not become licensed)? If not, then I agree with the poster who said that I should just get out and do something else.

 

[whoopdido]

Thanks. That is really helpful (and what I was afraid of...what a waste of time).

 

[deleted87716]

An MD without a license and clinical experience is basically worthless (bestselling authors and medical advisors to Hollywood notwithstanding).

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Agreed that if you never plan to do a residency, and MD is pretty worthless. Yes, there are stories of people getting high paying gigs without a residency, but they are stories and not something you can count on.

However, before you drop out, make sure you are doing so for the right reasons. Why don't you want to do a residency? If it's the time commitment, some internships are less time consuming than others although none are a walk in the park.

Getting another degree will simply put you into more debt.

 

[Quizzical]

What is your reason for simply not wanting to pursue residency?

If you are absolutely NOT going to do residency, then you need to consider your reasons for pursuing an MD. My inclination would be to get out. I suspect that the market for a nonclinical MD would be sparce.

Go speak to an advisor at your med school. You need to sort this out before your loans get out of hand.

 

[DarthNeurology]

I'm a female MS2. For various reasons (which I won't discuss here but are mostly to due with health issues), I'm not going to pursue a residency. Is it worth completing medical school? I really want that feeling of accomplishment, but should I pay $150k for a diploma I won't use (while feeling miserable and ill for the next 2.5 years)?

Another issue is that my husband and I want start a family within the next five years, but he'll be in residency for the next seven. Obviously, I will need to work after graduating med school. Should I switch into something like PA school or a Master's program in hospital administration? My thinking is that those programs would allow me to take a little better care of myself and to support our family while my husband is in residency.

Is it possible to support a family (say, 2 adults and a toddler) on a resident's salary alone? If not, will I have better luck finding a job as a non-board-certified M.D. or as a PA/MBA/something else?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry to hear about your situation. I would talk with the school's administration *if* you have reason to believe that they might be supportive. You could perhaps apply your two years of basic sciences towards another degree i.e. graduate sciences degree or MPH so you would get some mileage out of those courses. PA school prepares you to work for life like a resident, . . . so I why wouldn't you just do residency?

At any rate, after your first few clinical rotations in third year you might be better able to figure out if clinical medicine is right for you, then again the tuition does pile up.

 

[cher25]

Have you considered Pharma? I don't know how common it is but I know a doc that got a gig as medical advisor of some sort for a big Pharma company trying to get a drug approved through clinical trials. He went to work for them straight out of med school, no residency. He said that he doesn't see patients, he advises them on adverse events, and monitors the health of the patients by reviewing lab results/trends data. He is doing very well salary wise. Like I said, I don't know how common it is but Clinical Research companies are always looking for MDs of different sorts. Doesn't seem like there'd be much patient contact at all working for big Pharma. At least not from what I've seen in industry. FWIW

 

[quiltlady]

Of course two adults and a toddler can live on a resident's salary, just ask some of the residents at your school. It is easier if you live in a less-expensive city. There is already a thread about this.

 

[notinkansas]

If you don't plan to do residency, DO NOT finish your MD degree. NO reason to. Without residency and board certification it's not that easy to land a noncilnical job. Most MD s who do that, do so after some time in practice.

I quit a residency (found i hate ciinical medicne) so am not currently board certified/eligible. Makes it very hard for me to find job. I am lucky in that i live in a city where some in house coverage at the non teaching hospitals have been covered by people like myself, usually while in transition to another residency. I'm applying now to a different field.

If you get the MD, that alone is rarely enough to get job with pharma or as a consultant. Same with hospital administration. MD degree alone doesn't give you experience for that. etc. In those cases you need to have some experience.

If you finish the MD and don't intend to use it, you might even make it harder for you to get a job. For example, putting finances aside, if I wanted to get "lower level" job having MD on my resume makes me "overqualified"

If you want JD, MBA or MPH then go ahead and purse that path. But only because you decide one of those is what you want to do. You could do PA, but you'd have a lot of explaining as to why you bailed out of MD to change to PA (ask yourself that too!)

It is possible to support a family on a resident salary alone, depending on where you are in the country and the lifestyle choices you make. It would be tight but doable. Heck, for many people this is a lot of money.

what is your undergrad degree in? Could you get a job in field related to that?

 

[Impromptu]

Of course a married couple with 1 child can live off a resident's salary. I know all sorts of married residents with up to 4 kids that do just fine. What will put a strain on your married-life is racking up more debt with its ever increasing interest. If you get out now you've only had 1.5 years of loans, expensive, but managable, espeically since you two can apply for income based repayment.

 

[TropicalFish]

to OP,
It's definitely possible to live on one resident salary and have a family. One of my friends had twins while her husband was a resident, and she stayed at home after med school. After the kids were older she went back and did residency. And they live in California, where the cost of living is high, so it is entirely possible. I don't know your situation, but you may change your mind later about pursuing residency, so I would suggest finishing med school to leave that option open if you want to pursue it later. Being a female now 30 and pregnant, what I thought I wanted when I was in my mid-20s is different. So don't rule it out

 

[medicinesux]

to OP,
It's definitely possible to live on one resident salary and have a family. One of my friends had twins while her husband was a resident, and she stayed at home after med school. After the kids were older she went back and did residency. And they live in California, where the cost of living is high, so it is entirely possible. I don't know your situation, but you may change your mind later about pursuing residency, so I would suggest finishing med school to leave that option open if you want to pursue it later. Being a female now 30 and pregnant, what I thought I wanted when I was in my mid-20s is different. So don't rule it out

If she were to continue on in medical school, rather than having the "option" to return to residency, she will instead be FORCED into residency so she can service her six figure loans! I strongly advise against walking through a swinging door that will hurt like hell when it swings back in your Ar$e from behind. Not all doors are meant to be opened.

 

[Miami_med]

I'm not sure exactly what the health issue is, but raising children and working at a real job is exceedingly difficult and will have periods where the stress and sleep deprivation will far exceed some of the easier residencies in certain specialties. Additionally, There is no cross-coverage, post-call, vacation, etc... from being a parent. If you get sick, and your husband is in residency, you'll have to make sure you have a plan for that. If your reason is that you don't think medicine is worth it as a career (for whatever reason), or that you feel that you simply aren't healthy enough to do both, then the answer is quite simply that you have to quit.

That said, I am a resident who is working on an intern's salary, supporting a family (more than 1 child), and doing just fine financially. I am in a cheaper area, but I supported a family on less than most residency salaries (and mostly from loans) in one of the more expensive metros in the country before this. The average family income in America barely exceeds $50k (and may be less in the current economic environment). You will start close to this as a resident for one person. An inability to live on this income with appropriate debt management in all but the most expensive regions of the country is more the result of poor financial planning than anything else.

 

[peppy]

I agree that PA school or nursing school or something of that nature would be better than trying to get a job with an MD but no residency. I also feel that since the number of med school graduates is increasing over the next few years you can't necessarily count on being able to get a residency after a prolonged time away from clinical medicine if you wanted to wait after graduation to get a residency later.
But, still, med school is a once in a lifetime opportunity for most people, and you must have had a lot of motivation to pursue it originally to have gotten to this point.
Maybe it would be worthwhile to talk to your school about taking a leave of absence to address your health issues before you make a final decision to leave med school.
If you're concerned about issues like the stress of being on call making your illness worse, then maybe you could see how tolerable it is during a few third year rotations before making your decision.
Good luck to you!

 

[dragonfly99]

I agree with Peppy.
I wish you would tell us a little more about your reason for wanting to bail on med school at this point. At some point you wanted to do this really bad. Now you don't. That's fine and I think it's good if it's true that you realize it now and not later. But make sure that if you quit it's for the right reasons - I mean YOUR right reasons, not mine or your husband's or some advisor at your school. A leave of absence might be good because it gives you the option to return later if you choose to.

If you have absolutely no intentions of ever doing residency, then I do think I would not recommend getting the MD degree. Without some form of residency training it's not that useful. There was one person in the class ahead of me in med school who went straight into a consulting job after med school, no residency, but we were at a Top 10 med school and I don't know what this person's undergrad degree was (i.e. whether it was something related to business vs. not). Also some guy who went to the med school where I'm currently doing fellowship went to work for a pharm company, but from what I can tell he's basically just a drug rep...which would not require an MD to do that job. I don't think you should finish the degree just for the sense of accomplishment...you should think about what you want to do careerwise, and then see what you can do to get there.

I agree w/talking perhaps with your school's career office. They should be able to help you out, and likely have talked with other 1st/2nd years unclear about their future career paths.

 

[rkaz]

I have previously heard of some residencies in family practice being part-time. Does anyone know if these still exist? If that was the case, that might make completing residency more feasible (despite having health issues and trying to raise kids).

 

[smq123]

I have previously heard of some residencies in family practice being part-time. Does anyone know if these still exist? If that was the case, that might make completing residency more feasible (despite having health issues and trying to raise kids).

There are such things as sharing a residency with someone else - not just in FP. If you google "shared residency pair form," your search should bring up the NRMP website that talks about this. It's basically like couples matching, except you're hoping to match into the same spot, not just the same city/area. (I'd link you, but that's hard to do on my phone.)

That said, there are not a lot of programs that do this. From their point of view, it's double the work for no added benefit. I doubt that the program would get much of a discount for the double malpractice coverage, either. But it's an option that is out there.

 

[Winged Scapula]

For residencies, the issue of malpractice is usually moot.

Hospitals usually operate under a large group trust policy in which they provide the malpractice, and it is not dependent on the number of residents or hours worked. YMMV but this is usually how it works.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

If you're seriously thinking something like PA, then I think it would make as much sense to finish out and find some relaxed FM residency out there. Do that and work parttime or get a fulltime clinic job with no/limited call responsibilities. Also, I agree that this is a pretty big decision that you need to think seriously about and that taking a leave of absence is probably a better idea than just leaving. You're just in 2nd year, so you haven't gotten to clinicals yet. You might very well like it more than you think you did. And honestly there really are spots in medicine (even during residency) where you don't have to consistently pull 80 hour weeks.

 

[JackADeli]

I'm a female MS2. For various reasons (which I won't discuss here but are mostly to due with health issues), I'm not going to pursue a residency. Is it worth completing medical school?...

...I do not want to do a residency. Therefore, I will not be licensed to practice medicine...

I am quite confused by the OP scenario.
For health and/or other reasons considering dropping out of medical school and definately sure have no intention to complete a residency.....
Given that premise, wondering if changing to a PA program or other higher education program.... A little talk about having kid/s and living on spouses residency salary....

An MD without a license and clinical experience is basically worthless...

...if you never plan to do a residency, and MD is pretty worthless...

Getting another degree will simply put you into more debt.

...If you are absolutely NOT going to do residency, then you need to consider your reasons for pursuing an MD. My inclination would be to get out...

Go speak to an advisor at your med school. You need to sort this out before your loans get out of hand.

If you don't plan to do residency, DO NOT finish your MD degree. NO reason to...

If you finish the MD and don't intend to use it, you might even make it harder for you to get a job...

...You could do PA, but you'd have a lot of explaining as to why you bailed out of MD to change to PA (ask yourself that too!)

...what is your undergrad degree in? Could you get a job in field related to that?

With that general gist, this is what I would say:
1. Get out of medical school and just get a job. You have at least a undergrad degree and could start working a straight 9-5 M-Fri... Or at least look for a job as such. There is no accomplishment to have a diploma that always says you only went half-way... That diploma will just represent "I'm a docotor that can't practice medicine cause I didn't want to actually get fully trained...."
2. PA/NP/RN/etc.... are all a bad idea. I already find too many nurses that never even went to med-school that talk about how great a doctor they would have been if only.... Well, you will probably be the same. You will be the "almost docotor" if not for x, y, z... circumstances. Not to mention, being a PA/NP can in numerous circumstances be a "terminal degree" in which your final job description reads very much like a permanent resident.
3. Pharma may be difficult. They will definately want to know why you "quit" and why they should hire a "physician that couldn't cut it"..... Have you seen the Pharma/industry reps recently? That is a real "sales" job. Image means a great deal. The image around your quitting med-school or completing medical school but failing to become fully trained to practice any specific discipline may be a hard pill to sell....

Again, I don't know your circumstances or even understand all your thoughts or emotions. It seems like you too are having to come to terms with a great deal of thoughts and emotions. Seeking a guidance counselor and other sources of rational advise that will tell it to you straight is your best bet. I doubt your husband/sig other will want to be blunt and will rather try to be "supportive".... Supports great but you ultimately need to make a serious decision...