Surgery research

[archimedesxx]

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So I asked a question a while back. The consensus I got was that doing research and getting published before entering the match isn't that necessary for General Surgery although it can be beneficial.

For general surgery, is it advisable to do your research in a surgical field? Let's say I'm interested in Gen Surg but have an underlying interest in say Lou Gehrig's (ALS) disease, I can do it and still be considered competitive in terms of research?


PS: I'm not saying i will match into Gen Surg or anything. I will enter medical school next fall but wanted opinions of people already there. Hence, the reason I posted here.

Please let me know.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Research in anything will be beneficial, but in surgery fields specifically, you will get great added benefit if your research is surgery related. Same holds for LOR's. When come time to apply for surgery residency, letters from surgeons hold the most weight by far. The same can't be said for other fields as much.

 

[abmd]

how important is research. what do people think about orthopedics and plastic surgery?

 

[TexasPhysician]

how important is research. what do people think about orthopedics and plastic surgery?

In competitive fields like ortho and plastics, research is ALMOST mandatory.

 

[Rabbit Hole]

Research in anything will be beneficial, but in surgery fields specifically, you will get great added benefit if your research is surgery related. Same holds for LOR's. When come time to apply for surgery residency, letters from surgeons hold the most weight by far. The same can't be said for other fields as much.

I'm interested in surgery as well but the only research experience I have thus far is from my last year of university as a research assistant. The project was medically related and I received university credit for "independent work study". Would I be able to list this in my match application? Or does research only done in med school count?

I'm going to try hard to get another research position before applying for residency but it's going to be difficult with all the time constraints.

 

[skijumpbump]

This is funny because I have the opposite situation but the same question, I am interested in doing IM but I have a really interesting research project I would like to pursue with one of our surgical proffers. I also am wondering if research is research or if it really makes a bigger impact if it is in your desired area.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I'm interested in surgery as well but the only research experience I have thus far is from my last year of university as a research assistant. The project was medically related and I received university credit for "independent work study". Would I be able to list this in my match application? Or does research only done in med school count?

I'm going to try hard to get another research position before applying for residency but it's going to be difficult with all the time constraints.

I don't see why you can't mention this, but I would really try to get something else also. It won't break you if you are applying for general surgery, but it will definitely help. If you are thinking surgical subspecialty, I would 100% get involved in research in that field.

 

[TexasPhysician]

This is funny because I have the opposite situation but the same question, I am interested in doing IM but I have a really interesting research project I would like to pursue with one of our surgical proffers. I also am wondering if research is research or if it really makes a bigger impact if it is in your desired area.

IM is much more flexible with research. It depends more on what your future interests are. If you want to go to an IM program at a strong research center (UCLA, Stanford, Hopkins type of place), then I would do research in something likely to get you published as a first priority. Second priority would be in an IM field, and third priority just research in general. If you are more interested in a non-top 20 research institution, research will be a bonus no matter what it is in.

 

[BlueElmo]

TexasPhysician, it seems research is crucial for surgical specialties like ortho, plastic, neuro, etc. But is research necessary and count much for general surgery?

 

[TexasPhysician]

TexasPhysician, it seems research is crucial for surgical specialties like ortho, plastic, neuro, etc. But is research necessary and count much for general surgery?

Based on what I've seen, its not near as important. Gen Surg is much less competitive, so you don't need as much to match well.

Research will still be a plus, and an important plus if you want to match at a very prestigious institution. Research however is by no means mandatory to match in gen surg.

Just to give a comparison. I know someone that matched in gen surg out in CA without research. I also know someone who matched Mayo in neurosurgery with 20+ publications. Obviously 20 publications is on the high end, but those are the people you could be competing with in neurosurgery.

 

[BlueElmo]

Based on what I've seen, its not near as important. Gen Surg is much less competitive, so you don't need as much to match well.

Research will still be a plus, and an important plus if you want to match at a very prestigious institution. Research however is by no means mandatory to match in gen surg.

Just to give a comparison. I know someone that matched in gen surg out in CA without research. I also know someone who matched Mayo in neurosurgery with 20+ publications. Obviously 20 publications is on the high end, but those are the people you could be competing with in neurosurgery.

Cool, thanks. When you say gen surg is much less competitive, how less competitive? I heard it's harder to match into than IM, EM, Peds, etc.

 

[Rabbit Hole]

I don't see why you can't mention this, but I would really try to get something else also. It won't break you if you are applying for general surgery, but it will definitely help. If you are thinking surgical subspecialty, I would 100% get involved in research in that field.

My interest is in general surgery and the possibility of further specialization down the road... way down the road. In my case I think getting good LORs will be priority and research secondary. Thanks for your input.

 

[Skialta]

I am a pgy 3 surgery resident, when I was on the interview trail at mostly academic programs the majority of applicants that I interviewed with had research experience. Is it necessary to match into G-surg, probably not if you are a good applicant and not interested in an academic program, but why would you not stack the deck in your favor. This is especially true if you want to go to an academic center or if you want to further sub-specialize as it can be pretty competitive depending on want you want.

Skialta

 

[TexasPhysician]

Cool, thanks. When you say gen surg is much less competitive, how less competitive? I heard it's harder to match into than IM, EM, Peds, etc.

I'd say gen surg and EM are equally competitive.

IM, Peds, etc. are less competitive.

 

[TexasPhysician]

For competitiveness and even research, you can get a general idea here:

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf

The percentage of matching in gen surg goes up with research, but not by much. The definition of research projects is also quite lax.

 

[Rabbit Hole]

Thanks TexasPhysician & Skialta

 

[Medicine16]

Hey all, quick question for everyone - so it's been pretty well established that research is not as essential for general surgery as it is for fields like ortho, plastics, neurosurgery, etc, although it certainly enhances the applicant's credentials, especially for academic programs.

The question I have is - how does it compare to other factors, like grades, step scores, LORs, etc. when applying to surgery residency programs? If a student has several publications but below average grades (3rd-4th quartile)/average step score, how does it balance out when applying to general surgery programs? Or are grades/board scores in essence a "prerequisite", and research experience/publications simply icing on the cake?

I'm curious to know people's opinions, first because I think that this would probably be considered a relatively rare scenario, and second because I keep hearing that general surgery "isn't that competitive to get into" but that it's also "getting more competitive every year". Thanks everyone. 👍

 

[IwannabeDrP]

Hey all, quick question for everyone - so it's been pretty well established that research is not as essential for general surgery as it is for fields like ortho, plastics, neurosurgery, etc, although it certainly enhances the applicant's credentials, especially for academic programs.

The question I have is - how does it compare to other factors, like grades, step scores, LORs, etc. when applying to surgery residency programs? If a student has several publications but below average grades (3rd-4th quartile)/average step score, how does it balance out when applying to general surgery programs? Or are grades/board scores in essence a "prerequisite", and research experience/publications simply icing on the cake?

I'm curious to know people's opinions, first because I think that this would probably be considered a relatively rare scenario, and second because I keep hearing that general surgery "isn't that competitive to get into" but that it's also "getting more competitive every year". Thanks everyone. 👍

I'm seconding this inquiry. Also, for those of you who obtained sugery-specific research, was it at your medical school? If so, did you just approach a doc you wanted to work with? The school I'll be attending offers around 50 research positions to its medical students the summer following M1, so I'll be shooting for one of those.