Surgical Skills?

[dantt]

I've thought about entering surgery but the sheer difficulty of it looks daunting. I'm not bothered by blood or any of the like but every time I see a surgeon cut, I seriously doubt whether I could do it myself.

Are people naturally talented or does it come from training and practice?

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[triangles]

if you dont think you can do it, you cant

 

[Tired]

if you dont think you can do it, you cant

Oh bleah.

To the OP: Have you done your MS3 Surgery rotation? This should give you some idea of whether or not you really "can't" do it. The basics are knot tying, holding a retractor, suturing. I suppose a few people have such poor dexterity that they can never learn to use their hands, but I have yet to meet one. I vote for training.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

There is a standing joke among the surgical residents/fellows/attendings at my institution: "that's why it's a five year program."

Forget to check vitals in pre-op?
"that's why it's a five year program."

Cut a knot?
"that's why it's a five year program."

Nick the bowel?
"that's why it's a five year program."

Seriously, surgery is hard. You have to learn how to do it. No one has "surgical skills" as a medical student. Did you have any "stethoscope skills" when you were in college?

 

[Bertelman]

There is a standing joke among the surgical residents/fellows/attendings at my institution: "that's why it's a five year program."

Forget to check vitals in pre-op?
"that's why it's a five year program."

Cut a knot?
"that's why it's a five year program."

Nick the bowel?
"that's why it's a five year program."

Seriously, surgery is hard. You have to learn how to do it. No one has "surgical skills" as a medical student. Did you have any "stethoscope skills" when you were in college?

👍


Considering those 5 years are so jam-packed with information and time in surgery and on the wards, I'd consider it 8-10 years. So, OP, now picture yourself in the 7th grade. Imagine what you are doing now, in medical school. Seems pretty impossible to comprehend as a 7th grader.

As triangles said, confidence is key, too. Always no your limitations, but as a surgeon you need to step up and do some heroic stuff every once in a while. If you don't believe in yourself, you won't have the capabilities to reach the next level.

 

[beefballs]

triangles didn't say that he/she was being a tool.

 

[sacallaco]

buy a needle and start sewing!

 

[tomatoattack]

It isn't carving wood with a pebble, they teach you what to do and you do it. You practice for years doing in most case a relatively small actual variety of procedures. Think of how many appendectomies you will have done by the time you have finished a general surgery residency, and if you have ever seen one you will realize that it isn't rocket science. But if you don't believe you can - then you are already doomed but that goes for anything else as well. i.e. if you don't believe you can be a garbageman because you will fall off the truck, you will probably be a ****ty garbageman.

 

[Sean2tall]

If you ask me, the skills part of surgery is more mental than physical dexterity. The most important thing is to know what you're trying to do, get a good view of said thingie, and then the actual execution is pretty easy.

 

[adrenalitis]

A trauma surgeon I hung around with told me once that he could train a circus monkey to do the operations he does. He said that it doesn't take five years to learn how to operate, it takes five years to learn WHEN to operate and when to wait.

 

[Blade28]

There is a standing joke among the surgical residents/fellows/attendings at my institution: "that's why it's a five year program."

We say the same thing here!

He said that it doesn't take five years to learn how to operate, it takes five years to learn WHEN to operate and when to wait.

So true. 👍

 

[MadameLULU]

I think most med students start practicing by tieing knots. Buy a suturing book at a bookstore and tie away!

 

[Wahoos]

The only two physical requirements for a surgeon is "two limbs with hands attached and two eye balls that can give you a perception of depth". Normal dexterity is a plus, I have scrubed with a heart surgeon whos hand shakes like he has parkinson's disease, yet he is able to get the needle and knife to the right place each time. Doing surgical operations is a technical skill that can be learned by just about anyone in good time. The "art" of surgery, which gets more complicated is learning the indications of when to operate and when not to operate. Also learning how to deal with intra-operative and post-operative complications takes time and years of experience = wisdom. Those are the hard things to learn about surgery, not the actual technical skill. I think the steepest learning curve happens when a surgical resident finishes residency and just starting to take on the "full" responisbilities of their patients, both in the OR and clinic. Just my opinon.

 

[dantt]

The only two physical requirements for a surgeon is "two limbs with hands attached and two eye balls that can give you a perception of depth". Normal dexterity is a plus, I have scrubed with a heart surgeon whos hand shakes like he has parkinson's disease, yet he is able to get the needle and knife to the right place each time. Doing surgical operations is a technical skill that can be learned by just about anyone in good time. The "art" of surgery, which gets more complicated is learning the indications of when to operate and when not to operate. Also learning how to deal with intra-operative and post-operative complications takes time and years of experience = wisdom. Those are the hard things to learn about surgery, not the actual technical skill. I think the steepest learning curve happens when a surgical resident finishes residency and just starting to take on the "full" responisbilities of their patients, both in the OR and clinic. Just my opinon.

The learning and knowledge, I don't think I'd have difficulty. It's hte "shake like he has parkinson's disease" that I'm afraid of. I'm amazed that a heart surgeon would have such shakey hands.

 

[Tired]

The learning and knowledge, I don't think I'd have difficulty. It's hte "shake like he has parkinson's disease" that I'm afraid of. I'm amazed that a heart surgeon would have such shakey hands.

I've seen similar shaking from various surgeons in the OR. Strange how they can shake like crazy on the approach, but the moment the instrument touches the field, the shaking just shuts off and they are perfect . . .

For what it's worth, when I started my first OR experiences during Ob during third year, I shook like a madman. It got better with time, but when I'm nervous it comes back. I had one attending who used to stand over me and go, "Quit shaking! You have to calm down and stop shaking!" The last day of my rotation I finally looked up and him, and in my calmest, most respectful voice, said, "Sir, you're really not making me any less nervous." He laughed and stopped, and let me finish.

If shaking is the problem, make sure you stabilize your hands on the field as much as possible, and look for other techniques that calm you down. I have found that, if I talk while I'm working, I don't shake at all. I can't always get away with it with the residents all the time, but when I can I do much better.