Switching Programs?

[BillysBooks]

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Hi.

I ranked a residency program for geographical reasons instead of the strength of the program. After just a few months I can tell that it's not a good program for me, and I would do anything to transfer programs. Is this possible?

I'm in a specialty that has 1 yr of IM. Is it at all possible to transfer programs after my intern year? Please give me any advice. Is this a process of luck (e.g. knowing that a spot is open somewhere) or is there something that I could be doing now to prepare for a transfer?

Thanks so much. I appreciate your help.

 

[snoopy brown]

If you're only doing a prelim year of IM and have an advanced position then why are you worried?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yeah, I'm with Snoop. 😕

Or are you saying that your first year is a Prelim Med and then you are continuing on in your advanced specialty at the same hospital and that is what you wish to change?

If that is the case, and you need an advanced position, you need to find a position outside of the match or accept taking a year off and going back through the match this year (for a position to start in July 2009).

Transfers can happen but they require (obviously) that a position open up, at the appropriate level for you. It may be the case that a position opens, but requires you to repeat a year. You must consider whether or not this is acceptable to you.

 

[BillysBooks]

Yes, I am at the same hospital and I see and work with indirectly the people who are in my specialty. I am not impressed, and desperately want out. I do not want to take a year off.

How do I go about finding who has spots open?

Thanks for your responses!

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yes, I am at the same hospital and I see and work with indirectly the people who are in my specialty. I am not impressed, and desperately want out. I do not want to take a year off.

How do I go about finding who has spots open?

Thanks for your responses!

Often the web site of the board in your specialty may have open positions listed, or your PD will get flyers looking for residents. Of course, if they don't know you are unhappy it will be evident when you start asking about jobs elsdwhere. Bear in mind that you will most likely require a letter of good standing from your current PD.

You can also tell everyone you know in your specialty you are looking for a job, post a thread in the relevant forum here, but usually your own faculty/PD are the best source. You'll have to tell them some time.

And depending on how competitive your field is, you may HAVE to take a year off as open positions in your year aren't always available. Please decide what your Plan B is if things don't go to plan.

 

[snoopy brown]

I'd carefully evaluate your feelings. It sounds like your sole reason for wanting to bail from your current hospital is that you dislike the people in IM and will have to come in contact with them. The question is whether you really think that this is worth the time, energy, and trouble of getting another position. Getting another position is difficult in general. I don't know, you may be a stellar candidate and it may be easy for you, so maybe that's not a problem for you. But if your feelings are that strong towards that department it probably will be the same elsewhere.

 

[Blade28]

After just a few months I can tell that it's not a good program for me, and I would do anything to transfer programs.

Are you sure you can't stick it out? It's only been a few weeks. The beginning of internship is tough for everyone.

Or are there truly malignant personalities where you work?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'd carefully evaluate your feelings. It sounds like your sole reason for wanting to bail from your current hospital is that you dislike the people in IM and will have to come in contact with them. The question is whether you really think that this is worth the time, energy, and trouble of getting another position. Getting another position is difficult in general. I don't know, you may be a stellar candidate and it may be easy for you, so maybe that's not a problem for you. But if your feelings are that strong towards that department it probably will be the same elsewhere.

I got the impression that it wasn't the people in his prelim IM program that were the problem but those in advanced positions in his specialty (whatever that is). He's gotten the chance to observe up close, which he obviously didn't during the interview season and can't imagine continuing on in that program next year...

or maybe I'm off. Which is it BillysBrooks?

 

[snoopy brown]

Oh wait, you know what, I reread the post and you're right. I thought he said that as a specialist he'd still be working with the IM people indirectly and it's the other way around.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

It might be more helpful if you let us know what sort of advanced position you're currently matched into. Finding an opening in PM&R would be a lot easier than one in radiology. Just a thought.....

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Also, don't forget that should you find a new position, either in the same or a different field, it could be a match violation not to show up for your match commitment for your PGY-2. The NRMP will waive your match commitment if you decide to change specialties and request it before Jan 15th, however you cannot find a new spot in the same specialty, and you must request the waiver before finding a new spot. The relevant text from the match agreement is as follows:

An applicant who matched to an advanced position also may request a waiver if the applicant has elected to change specialties, provided the waiver is requested no later than the January 15 prior to the start of training. The applicant must request the waiver in writing and must send the request to the NRMP with a copy to the program to which the applicant matched. The NRMP will investigate the waiver request to determine whether or not the waiver shall be granted.

If, following initiation of the waiver review process by the NRMP, the applicant notifies the NRMP in writing that he/she will not accept the matched position if the waiver is not granted, the NRMP may grant an immediate waiver to the program so that it can recruit another qualified candidate for the matched position.

Applicants shall not negotiate for appointment to or accept a position in another program prior to or during the course of a waiver investigation. If the NRMP receives information that an applicant has negotiated for appointment to or accepted a concurrent year position in another program prior to receiving a waiver from the NRMP, the NRMP will initiate an investigation to determine whether the applicant or program has violated the terms of this Agreement.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

I'm not flaming but actually just curious.

What does it matter if you violate the match? As an applicant you really shouldn't have a need for their services in the future. So if you burn that bridge, who really cares? Can they affect funding to your "new" program??

 

[yaah]

It's not just you that's violating the contract, it's the program that hires you, I would think. All programs (and not just applicants) agree to abide by the match. If it was only applicants' behaviors that mattered, then the match wouldn't really exist because programs could do whatever they wanted.

 

[snoopy brown]

It's not just you that's violating the contract, it's the program that hires you, I would think.

That is incorrect, I believe. The program only has a responsibility to accept all candidates that are matched to their program. Likewise the candidate only has a responsibility to go to the program they are matched to. There is no penalty for individuals who break the Match so long as they never need to use the Match ever again (because you won't be allowed to). This includes using the Match for fellowships. There is also no penalty for a program hiring someone who has broken the Match since they don't sign a contract to that effect (that a person is "persona non grata" essentially for the entire U.S.). Some could argue that the penalty is therefore much more hard on programs since it would affect them for years to come. However that is also arguable but not without getting into the "is the Match good or bad" debate.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There is also no penalty for a program hiring someone who has broken the Match since they don't sign a contract to that effect

Actually, this is a match violation for programs. From the NRMP Website:

If a waiver is not granted and the applicant does not agree to honor the match commitment, he/she may be barred from accepting a position in another NRMP match-participating program that has a start date within one year from the date of the NRMP's final decision on the waiver. An NRMP-match participating program is prohibited from offering a position to any applicant who is ineligible to accept a position in an NRMP match-participating program as the result of a denied waiver. If any NRMP match-participating program offers a position to that applicant to commence training during the one-year period or if the applicant accepts such a position, the NRMP will initiate an investigation to determine whether the applicant or the program has violated the terms of the Participation Agreement.

Violating the match agreement for a program could lead to a three year suspension from the match. That would be bad. Before offering a spot to any candidiate outside the match, we are supposed to check for match violations with the NRMP.