Tabulating hours

[Barnaby]

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Hi everyone. So I'm looking to apply during the upcoming round. Problem 1- I only recently discovered that this is what I want in life. Therefore, I lack hours.

Now I know what you'll all say: maybe you need some more time, experience, before you're "really ready" for vet school. Doubtlessly a valid arguement. But I want vet school. Now. It's the right fit for me, and I have no doubt that I can do it. The question is, how many rounds will it be before I'm admitted- I feel like it's just a matter of racking up enough hours? And submitting a strong P.S.

Problem 2- how can I really sell the hours the I do have without "padding my resume". I certainly don't want to lie or embellish, but I want to know- what counts and what doesn't?

I currently volunteer at a shelter (vet supervised), so I know these hours are good. I also volunteer to clean cages at an exotic animal refuge. I'm looking into shadowing at an equine clinic. Additionally, I work full-time as a research technician in a lab that uses rats/mice. Obviously I'm not constantly handling animals all day every day- how do I count these hours? In summers past, I've worked in labs that use embryonic chick- is this worth noting? I learned a lot about chicken eggs, but whether or not this is "animal experience" is debatable. Taking a non-credit 24 hour class on swine insemination. Thoughts?

I know this is totally selfish, but I need encouragement or a reality check. I feel SO uncertain about taking a shot this year, but I'm SO anxious to dive into vet school. My stats: 23 yrs. old, B.A. in Neuroscience, minor in chemistry, GRE v=620 q=760 w=5.5, gpa=3.56, science approx. 3.75. last 45 hours approx 3.6. I have very few hours, but am steadily racking them up. I MIGHT have 800 hours by application time depending on what research counts. Go ahead, let me have it- I'm a long shot to get in, eh?

 

[kekemapa04]

I think you would have a shot...I applied with only 750 hours at a small animal clinic and have gotten in somewhere. Just be smart in where you apply.

 

[Barnaby]

Thanks Kekemapa, where did you apply? where were you accepted?

 

[wi girl]

Additionally, I work full-time as a research technician in a lab that uses rats/mice. Obviously I'm not constantly handling animals all day every day- how do I count these hours?

The way I did it was to track the number of hours I worked with the mice for a month, got a good estimate of a per week hourly number, and multiplied by the number of weeks I worked there. Explain your animal-only responsibilities. Then you can also count the non-animal hours as a job on VMCAS which is what I did.

In summers past, I've worked in labs that use embryonic chick- is this worth noting? I learned a lot about chicken eggs, but whether or not this is "animal experience" is debatable. Taking a non-credit 24 hour class on swine insemination. Thoughts?

I would use the chick research as just research. Technically isn't most embryonic stuff cell culture? Maybe I'm interpreting that wrong, but you usually can't have too many research hours, so I'd count it as that.

I know this is totally selfish, but I need encouragement or a reality check. I feel SO uncertain about taking a shot this year, but I'm SO anxious to dive into vet school.

I'd say go for it. The worst thing? You spend a couple hundred dollars and don't get in -- but you can do file reviews, and find out WHY you didn't get in ... so you can directly improve your app. You sound very passionate -- I'd say go for it , and apply this cycle, if you can!! Good luck!!!

 

[CalpardNY]

I don't know that I'd be the best person to comment on how to calculate hours because I'm still not sure what i did to calculate mine! Like wi girl said - the best thing you can do is figure out an average animal handling or time spent with vets for a specific week or specific time frame and multiply it by the number of weeks or shifts or something!

... but honestly i think in this vet school world we have no idea who is a long shot and who Is for sure anymore. I have yet to post my stats on the successful applicants page but I think that its worth it for you to apply. I graduated with a B.S. in neuroscience, my gpa is a 3.16 (though i had a bad year that i used the explanation statement to discuss) with my science gpa not too much higher. My gres were Q=730 V = 600 A = 5.5. While I did a lot extracurricularly in college i only had about 750 hours of vet stuff (350 that were future hours at the time i submitted my application). I had a lot of animal experience however as I raised seeing eye dogs and had research. (I will post my info on that thread at some point!) Anyway, my point is i have been accepted to 3 schools...so you never know!

One thing that may be of value to you is spend some time investigating (or searching on here) what each school likes to see to decide where to apply. For example, from what I can see Cornell really likes to see small animal vet hours. If you don't have that, maybe then its not the place for you to apply to. Maximize the hours you do have by applying to schools that are looking for you! (or as best you can figure out what they are looking for!)

Hope that helps and isnt too much rambling!

 

[Barnaby]

"I'd say go for it. The worst thing? You spend a couple hundred dollars and don't get in -- but you can do file reviews, and find out WHY you didn't get in ... so you can directly improve your app."


Thanks for the input Wi girl- you raise a great point (wish I'd had the good sense to think of it myself!). If I don't get in I can do file reviews- that's brilliant. I will keep that in mind when I get into panic mode again. It's hard to keep a rational head on your shoulders when you're trying to juggle all these factors!

Just for clarification, the chick work was actually with chicken embryos- in the egg. It's an interesting question- is that stem cell work? Funny to consider since when you use the embryo it looks like a tiny chick, then you return it to the egg to develop a few more days before harvesting the cells, tissue what-have-you. I suppose we touch too closely on that whole "when does life begin" question for me to want to explore this idea any further- so I'll take your advice, count it as research!

One last question: VMCAS mentions that "vet experience" can be supervised by a PhD, DVM, or anyone in the health profession: that means my rat/mouse work counts as "vet experience" since my P.I. is MD/PhD? https://www.vmcas.org/vmcas/html/INS_veterinary.HTM

 

[nyanko]

One last question: VMCAS mentions that "vet experience" can be supervised by a PhD, DVM, or anyone in the health profession: that means my rat/mouse work counts as "vet experience" since my P.I. is MD/PhD? https://www.vmcas.org/vmcas/html/INS_veterinary.HTM

When I was applying, I was told that research goes under vet experience. Mine had nothing to do with vet med, it was supervised by a PhD and used a microdissection and developmental assay in Drosophila to find a gene that codes for a protein that performs a certain function. In the end, I think the main thing is that the adcom can distinguish between the different types of work that you put down and they'll end up counting it for what they want anyway, so don't stress too much about where you put it! 🙂

 

[wi girl]

I will keep that in mind when I get into panic mode again. It's hard to keep a rational head on your shoulders when you're trying to juggle all these factors!

Just for clarification, the chick work was actually with chicken embryos- in the egg. It's an interesting question- is that stem cell work? Funny to consider since when you use the embryo it looks like a tiny chick, then you return it to the egg to develop a few more days before harvesting the cells, tissue what-have-you. I suppose we touch too closely on that whole "when does life begin" question for me to want to explore this idea any further- so I'll take your advice, count it as research!

Two things: (a) We all completely understand panic mode. look at the WI thread, and that was me two weeks ago when my letter for IS hadn't come yet. It was actually kinda amusing, in retrospect.

(b) whatever you are doing for research sounds really interesting! I work with hair follicle.skin stem cells, and really want to work with hESCs and primate ESCs if I do research at WI -- I have connections to a great PI there -- so the whole chicken re-implant differentiation thing is REALLY interesting!

(c) Good luck again! Just think -- a whole SEVEN months before apps are due -- you can get SO MUCH expirieince in that time! Have fun though!🙂

 

[Badger Girl]

Well, Barnaby, it seems like you and I are in a similar situation. After reading a lot of people's stats, I felt very discouraged because I know there is NO WAY I will be able to fit in as many hours as some people have. I will be applying in 2 cycles, but in the mean time I will be working full time, plus I have an "on the side" job to pay for all the classes I am taking. I'm just going to try and fit in as many hours as I can and see what happens.

 

[VAgirl]

I don't think this has been said before...

I don't think that one needs to count up the number of hours they spend handling animals or the number of hours they spend directly with the vet at a given opportunity and count only those towards animal or vet experience. I helped out at a barn. Often I was grooming horses, but I still counted the hours I spend mucking out stalls, haying, sweeping, etc. as animal experience hours because they were. A lot of animal work involves stuff where your hands aren't on the animal. Same for vet experience. I worked in a pathology lab doing necropsies and histo work. The vet wasn't always around (usually wasn't) and sometimes I was filing jars of tissues on the shelves or staining slides, but I still counted all my hours there as vet experience, because it was. Don't short-change yourself by cherry-picking hours from experiences. It seems to me the right thing to do is decide what category an experience fits into generally (animal experience, vet experience, or work experience) based off of VMCAS's definitions and then count all hours at that activity towards that type of experience.

I suppose there are situations where this approach would seem incorrect, but by and large it seems right to me and seems to fit with VMCAS's guidelines.

 

[MnInIl]

I think VAgirl has it right....and when in doubt you can always call the schools, I think for the most part our experiences with the admissions offices have been very positive and they do genuinely want to help you (although for the next few weeks they'll be a bit busy!). In retrospect, I wish I had asked all the schools I applied to what exactly was important to them in terms of experience (for example, Cornell told me in my post-mortem that they really wanted more breadth of experience than depth).

For the people who don't have tons of hours...I actually applied this cycle thinking I didn't have a chance specifically so I could hear what the adcoms had to say about my app and because I thought why not? What if I could get in this year? And...yay! I got into IL and was waitlisted at MN and WI (plus an interview at TN coming up). I only had about 1200 hours in SA (plus about 600 shelter hours), but I also spent a day shadowing two different equine vets and a zoo vet. I think even those few hours with other types of vets helped because it showed my commitment to this career. You just have to grab opportunities where you can, every little bit helps! Good luck!!

 

[wi girl]

I only had about 1200 hours in SA (plus about 600 shelter hours),

The bolding is mine -- I didn't have anywhere near this many hours. My PS was about how I changed my mind and became pre-vet as a college sophomore, and so I worked that summer, and then volunteered at a shelter once a week during the school years, and did lab animal social enrichment. I think total -- including crazy research hours (~600) I had around 1100 total. So, don't worry about number of hours. Thousands aren't necessary. I specifically didn't apply to MSU because I think they require 800 vet hours (I may be remembering incorrectly?) which I didn't have. I've been accepted to WI, btw.

 

[MnInIl]

It was just meant to be in comparison to the people with thousands of hours in seemingly every possible field....I know I felt really discouraged when I first started reading this board. If the original poster was able to get 800 hours in various aspects of vet med by app time (shelter, research, ...), I was trying to say that other people have successfully applied with a comparable number of hours.

My powers of explanation are waning as I continue to avoid studying for o-chem....😛

 

[wi girl]

No worries; I just didn't want the OP to be concerned if they had less than the 1200 -- I really think they should apply, and find out if that's all/what they need. This would be especially useful in determining if they need particular experience (ie more LA/research/etc).

We both had the same end purpose, and I may have jumped a bit early as I haven't had enough sleep for a few days either.

Good luck w/ ochem MnInIl -- sorry for the leaping to conclusions!

 

[Badger Girl]

Thanks for the encouragement! 😀 There is so much to consider before applying and I know everyone wants to make sure they have all of their ducks in a row. Of course, people will have shining parts of their applications and then some parts that aren't as strong. In my PS (when the time comes), I'm going to focus on my ability to communicate with people, especially those in distress. I've had a lot of experience with this since my job is to investigate child abuse. Hopefully, that will help strengthen the non-academic portion of my application. Everyone has strengths and limitations, so I think we should all just keep on trucking along!! 🙂

 

[Barnaby]

I second BadgerGirl, thanks to everyone for their insight. Your advice is tremendously helpful right now. This forum is really such a great tool...