Taiwan Medical School, U.S. residencies, and going for broke

[SoBad]

Hi there everyone, I have a huge dilemma (trilemma?). I figured this would probably be the best place to ask since so many people here have experience in making difficult decisions and I could certainly use their help.

I've had the good fortune of being accepted to the Kaoxiong Medical School in Taiwan, but at the same time I've heard that it is incredibly difficult to gain residency back in the U.S. (especially in a competitive residency) if I wish to do so. Does anyone else have any more info on this? I've checked out the match rates of foreign schooled U.S. citizens but even then I would imagine most of the statistics reflects things such as Carribean schools more accurately instead of Taiwan schools, which have much lower application pool for residency to the U.S.

My second option is to go to the Carribean schools, which won't be a problem, but I am worried about the difficulty in getting into a competitive residency, especially given my next option.

My final option is to try again for M.D. and DO schools. My grades and MCAT scores are competitive enough (3.7, 35), but I have applied twice to M.D. schools without getting in (majority of schools put me on hold instead of rejection after I finished their secondaries). I would imagine what is holding me back are my extracurriculars, which are pretty typical of the average pre-med student. I will have to take the MCAT again but it isn't something I am worried about. I've been prepping my resume to find a better job and unique options so I'm hoping someone else might have suggestions that would help my application.

As a person who wishes to keep his options open after finishing med school, does anyone have any suggestions or advice on what to consider and which path to choose? I am currently in my mid20s, and pretty much my biggest fear is to find out due to my choice, I won't be able to reasonably pursue a specialty further in my career due to this choice.

I apologize again for this wall of text but I figured if anyone knows how to make hard decisions, it's people on this board .

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[edgerock24]

I'm guessing you're not a U.S. citizen, right? There's no way you wouldn't be accepted to a U.S. MD or DO school with those stats if you were one.

In my opinion, if you are 100% set on coming back to the U.S. for residency, I'm not sure about going to med school in Taiwan. I don't know anything about it, or about how students do in regard to residency placement. SGU grads, although criticized here, land pretty good residencies in the US as IMG's. I'd suggest applying to some Irish medical schools. Students from there generally do well with the US match and coming from an Irish school you'll be an MD from a first class university.

Also, try speaking with a bunch of US med schools admissions deans about yourself. Get a clear picture of the situation before applying, if you haven't already.

 

[SoBad]

Thanks for the quick reply! I am actually a U.S. citizen, though I have only applied to M.D. schools, not the D.O.s . I've heard that things are actually looking better for them residency wise, but regardless I can't apply this year as I don't have the required DO recommendation letter that so many DO schools require. How would I go about contacting US med schools admissions deans? I would imagine they are quite busy and don't really have time for requests from people.

 

[Choo]

Taiwan. That's a no-brainer. It's a great city, a good school. You'd have the option to stay there and actually practice. You'd have more options. Taiwanese schools are good. The food is good. It is cheaper. Everything is cheaper. You'd be better trained.

(If you don't speak chinese, then nevermind. DO NOT go to Taiwan if you don't speak Chinese. Apply to DO.)

 

[Goro]

I'm surprised that you got shut out with stats like yours, unless you aimed way too high, applied late, or have a red flag in your packet.


Not all DO programs require the letter, so find out which ones don't and aim for them (like mine).

I am actually a U.S. citizen, though I have only applied to M.D. schools, not the D.O.s . I've heard that things are actually looking better for them residency wise, but regardless I can't apply this year as I don't have the required DO recommendation letter that so many DO schools require.

Go the school's websites and look under "administration" or do a search for "Dean of Admissions". OR, contact the Office of Admissions, and ask if you can speak to or email the the Dean. They actually are very friendly and willing to give advice as to chances.


How would I go about contacting US med schools admissions deans? I would imagine they are quite busy and don't really have time for requests from people.

 

[SoBad]

@ Choo

I can handle the weather and I love the people there, but I have multiple concerns in addition to the residency in the U.S. issue, one of them being the language. While I am capable of conversational mandarin and reading some, I have always believed that language is incredibly important to a physician and that subtle nuances in conveying intent and information often make the difference between trust and comfort. There's a feeling that I could not reach my potential as a doctor if I'm spending more time struggling to communicate with patients with doctors than treating them as well as stumbling through their instruction during classes. I am very worried about spending 5 years in the program, then finding out that not only is it difficult be a good physician, but also that I would be limited in my choices should I choose to return to the U.S.

@Goro

I applied for 30+ schools, most out of state since I am from California and I do not have any red flags in my application that I am aware of other than a less than impressive extracurricular list (which is due to both unforeseen circumstances and lack of foresight).

Should I introduce myself formally to the Deans or would a brief inquiry do?

 

[beBrave]

How would I go about contacting US med schools admissions deans? I would imagine they are quite busy and don't really have time for requests from people.

In my experience, I've saved myself from a lot of grief and mistakes by calling the schools and speaking with the Deans or Program Director. Formal introduction (being polite) and giving them the same respect you would give to any other person usually works fine.

I applied for 30+ schools, most out of state since I am from California and I do not have any red flags in my application that I am aware of other than a less than impressive extracurricular list (which is due to both unforeseen circumstances and lack of foresight).

If you are getting to the secondary application stage, with your stats and just decent EC's, you should be getting some interviews. You might want to look at your personal statement more closely. Discussing your application with a Dean in your situation can help a lot. There may be something on your secondary application or in your personal statement that is causing rejections. For example, if your personal statement in anyway suggest that your primary intention for attending Med school is not to help sick people, it will destroy your application.

 

[Goro]

It' s definitely worth a year of your life to take the time to build up your ECs and get the application done right for next year.

I applied for 30+ schools, most out of state since I am from California and I do not have any red flags in my application that I am aware of other than a less than impressive extracurricular list (which is due to both unforeseen circumstances and lack of foresight).

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

You should be able to get a US acceptance. What was your school list like? Any interviews?

 

[SoBad]

You should be able to get a US acceptance. What was your school list like? Any interviews?

My school list was basically any school that looked relatively favorably on out of state students. No interviews, which I found surprising, but perhaps that's indicative of a problem that's not obvious to me but to them.

Would it be wise to contact the Deans or Program directors right now? It is the start of application season so while I imagine they are patient people, they probably are neck deep in application duty. Is it reasonable to ask them to take a look at my file and see if there's anything that I lack/need/ have a secret sabatoge letter of rec?

 

[SunsFun]

What ECs do you have? This is really weird. Even with below average ECs you should be getting interview invites. I haven't heard of anything like that but it could theoretically be possible that your recommender hated you. Did you have anyone read your PS? How were your secondaries?

 

[SoBad]

I pulled this from a post a year or two ago (I'm too lazy to type it out again)

"""ECs
80-100 hours hospital volunteer (lots of interaction with doctors and patients due to long periods of no work needing to be done)
1 month overseas teacher volunteer
1 year of outreach work
Volunteer/ Paid tutor during college
3 months teacher aide (don't know if i should include this, cause it wasn't very interesting or rewarding (didnt get to do much : / )

Study Group organizer/leader
6 months lab exp, about 10-12 hours/week
2 weeks, + 2 weekends medical missions (very fun!)
shadowed 2 internists, 1 surgeon (although not during surgeries, just him doing primary care stuff), 2 of the doctors not from U.S., (20ish hours)""""

Maybe the fact that I don't have any long commitments are worrying to the adcoms, but I do have a reason for each one not being that long (graduating, moving, etc). I know if I apply this cycle it will be for nothing since I have didn't do anything of importance this year (am volunteering somewhere else though to keep busy).

My letter of recs shouldn't have had anyone hate me, 3 were definitely good-great, and the last was at worst a stock letter of rec. Then again you never know what bizarre secret hate other people might harbor for me 😛. Would it be unethical of me to ask the Dean/Program director if there is anything worrisome about my letter of recs? I want to call and ask them but I'm a bit worried as well that it will be a huge bother to them find my app and look for problems...

I had other people look at my PS, and though it starts off a little "different", it got my reasons for applying for med school across, including what set me on this path. Maybe the first sentence made them throw it away? It wasn't anything remotely offensive though I will say it did include the word underwear and laundry

 

[beBrave]

I pulled this from a post a year or two ago (I'm too lazy to type it out again)

"""ECs
80-100 hours hospital volunteer (lots of interaction with doctors and patients due to long periods of no work needing to be done)
1 month overseas teacher volunteer
1 year of outreach work
Volunteer/ Paid tutor during college
3 months teacher aide (don't know if i should include this, cause it wasn't very interesting or rewarding (didnt get to do much : / )

Study Group organizer/leader
6 months lab exp, about 10-12 hours/week
2 weeks, + 2 weekends medical missions (very fun!)
shadowed 2 internists, 1 surgeon (although not during surgeries, just him doing primary care stuff), 2 of the doctors not from U.S., (20ish hours)""""

Maybe the fact that I don't have any long commitments are worrying to the adcoms, but I do have a reason for each one not being that long (graduating, moving, etc). I know if I apply this cycle it will be for nothing since I have didn't do anything of importance this year (am volunteering somewhere else though to keep busy).

My letter of recs shouldn't have had anyone hate me, 3 were definitely good-great, and the last was at worst a stock letter of rec. Then again you never know what bizarre secret hate other people might harbor for me 😛. Would it be unethical of me to ask the Dean/Program director if there is anything worrisome about my letter of recs? I want to call and ask them but I'm a bit worried as well that it will be a huge bother to them find my app and look for problems...

I had other people look at my PS, and though it starts off a little "different", it got my reasons for applying for med school across, including what set me on this path. Maybe the first sentence made them throw it away? It wasn't anything remotely offensive though I will say it did include the word underwear and laundry

Most programs don't ask for more than 100 hours of Physician shadowing, despite what some believe. You have all your EC's in a row. The issue is probably in your personal statement. You have to show maturity. They probably see the first sentence and don't read through the rest. You must be honest in your personal statement but still smart.

I suggest you revise it and simply be professional; consider paying an English Grad student or someone with good creative writing skills to help you if needs be. Think of your personal statement in the context of meeting someone for the first time. You don't air out all your dirty laundry (no pun intended) when you first meet them; you introduce yourself in a formal way and gradually build rapport. Somethings you should keep to yourself until you get to know them better. A personal statement is basically a profile of yourself. Remember that this is how the committee will see you. If every medical school is rejecting you, then clearly you need to work on your presentation.

 

[chirodocjrd]

With your GPA, MCAT and EC's there has to be something else keeping your from even getting an interview. I'd call the admissions directors of the schools that you applied to and ask if they would critique you application packet. It sounds like its a letter of rec or the personal statement that is throwing up flags, but only they can say for sure. Keep calling different schools until someone says they will talk with you, and then call 3 more to get more perspective.

I'd also recommend forgoing the overseas schools as it seems pretty apparent that you want to do your residency in the US and then practice here. Apply ASAP, put in your initial app. You can always up load the LOR later if they are the issue. If you wait to apply, you be in the middle or back of the pack and be stuck again. Def apply both MD and DO. You're just above avg for MD and above for DO from what I've read (but that doesn't mean anything).

Best of luck!

 

[Law2Doc]

I pulled this from a post a year or two ago (I'm too lazy to type it out again)

"""ECs
80-100 hours hospital volunteer (lots of interaction with doctors and patients due to long periods of no work needing to be done)
1 month overseas teacher volunteer
1 year of outreach work
Volunteer/ Paid tutor during college
3 months teacher aide (don't know if i should include this, cause it wasn't very interesting or rewarding (didnt get to do much : / )

Study Group organizer/leader
6 months lab exp, about 10-12 hours/week
2 weeks, + 2 weekends medical missions (very fun!)
shadowed 2 internists, 1 surgeon (although not during surgeries, just him doing primary care stuff), 2 of the doctors not from U.S., (20ish hours)""""

Maybe the fact that I don't have any long commitments are worrying to the adcoms, but I do have a reason for each one not being that long (graduating, moving, etc). I know if I apply this cycle it will be for nothing since I have didn't do anything of importance this year (am volunteering somewhere else though to keep busy).

My letter of recs shouldn't have had anyone hate me, 3 were definitely good-great, and the last was at worst a stock letter of rec. Then again you never know what bizarre secret hate other people might harbor for me 😛. Would it be unethical of me to ask the Dean/Program director if there is anything worrisome about my letter of recs? I want to call and ask them but I'm a bit worried as well that it will be a huge bother to them find my app and look for problems...

I had other people look at my PS, and though it starts off a little "different", it got my reasons for applying for med school across, including what set me on this path. Maybe the first sentence made them throw it away? It wasn't anything remotely offensive though I will say it did include the word underwear and laundry

Something isn't adding up. Are you only applying to top schools? Are your letters of recommendation really as good as you think? Don't ask your dean, but you can approach a place you previously applied to as to how you might improve your application for next year and maybe they will give you sone insight? Is your PS worse than you think? Your numbers ought to get you an interview someplace if you apply smartly, so there's something you aren't telling.

As for going outside of the US for residency -- bad idea. If you want to end up in the US, go to school in the US. The odds of snagging a spot as a foreign grads pales in comparison to that of even the worst US grads.

 

[SoBad]

It's possible that it's because I didn't get much done in between my application cycles, but I'm not leaving anything out, I'm telling you guys how it went : / . If anything it's a load off my mind knowing that I still have a good chance, but it's going to be nagging me at the back of my mind trying to figure out what exactly I'm doing incorrectly.