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[shan1997]

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I need advice and constructive criticism about my situation. I was a biology major but switched to psychology, that is why I am a little behind in my pre-med courses. I grauduated this past december ( 2002 ).I have physics and organic left to complete before I can take the MCAT. I am going to be taking the physics and organic post bacc ( now that I have graduated ). I am determined to make it to med school one day and believe that if it is meant I will be a doctor but if not, where one door closes another one opens. I at least want to try, I won?t be satisfied until I try. I wanted to post this as a question on SDN to see what advice I could get as to what i can do to improve my chances. Recently I calculated all my various GPA?s to see where I stood ( realistically ) and this is what I came up with( i might of mis-calculated some places but i think this is pretty accurate). I wanted opinions and wanted to know if anyone has ever heard of anyone with stats like this getting into medical school ( allopathic or osteopathic-because i plan to apply to both) )Here is goes ( don?t laugh, lol ):

Graduating GPA: 3.044
Math/Science GPA:2.08
Non-Science GPA:3.44
Psychology GPA:2.9 ( I had one C in a psyc/stats course )
Post-bacc GPA:??
MCAT:??

I know the science GPA is going to kill me but I hope to do well out of the remaining science classes to show the admissions board I can handle the work and so I can have a respectable post-bacc GPA. I am going to take an MCAT prep course in hopes of doing well on it so I can have a good competitive score. I know many times, what an applicant lacks in one area, maybe they can make up for in another ( I know admissions are looking for well rounded candidates ). I have been involved in lots of community and extra-curricular activities 🙁 I have a list but i do not have it handy right now, i am thinking off the top of my head )

*National Society of Black engineers ( i was a science major and it is an organization that teaches leadership )
* AED ) pre-med- society )
* AMSA pre-med society
* 6 years of volunteer experience at University of kentucky Hospital
* Internship in pediatric Emergency room
* Medical mission to Ecuador in 2001
* no research as of yet
*200+ volunteer hours at local hospitals ( shriner's hospital, adult day care)
* PEPP program (Professional Education Preparation Programs (PEPP and PEPP Step II). The six-week residential programs help prepare participants for a successful career in medicine or dentistry. )
* numerous awards and scholarships ( outstanding freshman and senior award )
etc ( i can send the list as an attachment if anyone wants to see if to get the maximun amount of information in order to give me advice.

If i am able to have a good post bacc gpa and do well on the mcat, do i have a shot?????


Thanks for listening to me!

Shan1997

 

[crazyA]

You have a lot of stuff going for you, but you're right, your science GPA is a killer.

Post-bacc may not be enough to raise your GPA to a competitive level, I'd consider a Master's program in biology or something.

And you're right, acing the MCAT will really give you a boost.

Good luck

 

[shan1997]

thanks for the advice. I think you are right about the science gpa, even if i do well in my remaining post bacc classes, i think that will only being me up to a 2.3ish. What is the LOWEST science gpa someone has had and still got into medical school?????

 

[DrMom]

Don't know what kind of bottom end there is to the science GPA, but keep in mind that the vast majority of med school classes are science classes. Also, the semesters are heavy loads. If you have had problems in these types of classes you need to assess why & work to fix that before you move on. I wish you well.

 

[shan1997]

Any other comments?

 

[shan1997]

thanks carbon. So even though your mcat was high, the low science gpa is the hurdle? hopefully i can overcome it with my post bacc classes, any other takers??

 

[DaDa]

Shan1997,
It can be done. 2.7 G.P.A. ; 3.0 Science G.P.A. 30 MCAT with 3 interviews and 1 acceptance. Just pull your science G.P.A. up with your remaining science classes.

Good Luck,
DaDa

 

[shan1997]

Da Da, thanks for the words of encouragement, where there is a will, there is a way. I appreciate all the comments thus far, any other advice???




Quote of the day:" What you are, is God's gift to you
What you make of yourself, is your gift to God

 

[uffda]

how many BCMP units do you have that are generating that GPA?

if it is just a few units, doing all the prereqs over you might be able to significantly raise it - if it is already alot of units, then you'll have to rely on a small amount of numeric movement and hope that the admissions folks will respect the upward trend.

try placing your coursework in a spreadsheet, add in all the prereq sciences (with units) you intend to take, assume you get an A in all of them <g> and see how your final BCMP GPA might look.

 

[shan1997]

see this is what i am having trouble with, i may have mis-calculated my gpa for science ( it may be just a tad higher). By units do you mean how many hours the course was worth or whatever grade you recieved out of the class X quality points? Could I PM a math whiz to look at my transcript and see if i have under calculated my gpa??? Is the BCMP comprised of just the pre-requisites or is that all your science you've ever taken ( biol, chem, physics ) etc. can someone help??

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by shan1997
see this is what i am having trouble with, i may have mis-calculated my gpa for science ( it may be just a tad higher). By units do you mean how many hours the course was worth or whatever grade you recieved out of the class X quality points? Could I PM a math whiz to look at my transcript and see if i have under calculated my gpa??? Is the BCMP comprised of just the pre-requisites or is that all your science you've ever taken ( biol, chem, physics ) etc. can someone help??

BCMP includes all sciences and math courses you have taken.

To figure the BCMP GPA, for each course multiply the # of credit hours by the grade for each course (4, 3, 2, 1). Then add all of these together & divide by the total # of credit hours of BCMP.

 

[shan1997]

Thanks Dr. Mom, I will try that and see if i come up with anything different

 

[shan1997]

I was a psychology major, so would i add #1 statistics in psychology as a science class and what about #2 brain and behavior???

 

[The Philosopher]

Shan,

Are you a minority? African-American? I think that you indicated that you were part of an African-American club and so that is why I am asking.

Minority stats are a little lower for acceptance, and this is just a fact. Your low GPA is still going to be a problem, but if you spend 2 semesters taking middle/upper level genetics/biochem/physio courses, you should be alright--especially with affirmative action.

This is not meant to downgrade your qualities as an individual, nor is it meant for you to "try" any less, but a minority status would certainly help you.

 

[relatively prime]

I think you have a chance if you kick-butt on the MCAT (try really hard to get a 9 in each section) and apply to a large number of schools that accept similar numers as yours... i.e don't apply to 20 top 50 schools. Apply to a lot of DO schools and less number-tight MD schools.

Good luck 🙂

 

[shan1997]

I am an african american female from an under represented county ( letcher county )-- the eastern part of kentucky. i definately plan on applying to DO schools. I know that i have to kick butt on the MCAT and that is what I plan to do. I was planning on taking a MCAT prep course, do most people study on their own, take a kaplan class or the princeton review??

 

[uffda]

you might be able to get away with listing PSYCH xxx as a MATH class since it is statistics (others have)

but I don't think you'll get a PSYCH xxx "Brain & Behavior" in as a biology class for BCPM calculations. I could be wrong though. As always, AMCAS has the last say about things not explicity offered as Bio, Math, Chem or Physics depts.

as far as MCAT goes - you'll get more advice than you could ever use in the MCAT forum - try the archives there with your prep course questions.

for rough GPA - I made an Excel spreadsheet with columns for
Course, letter grade, units, grade points, and a calc'd field of
units*grade points
then filled it in for my BCMP courses, including projected courses, and then calc'd the GPA with a function
I had 1 page for all courses, 1 for BCPM only, 1 for non-BCMP only

 

[relatively prime]

Originally posted by shan1997
I am an african american female from an under represented county ( letcher county )-- the eastern part of kentucky. i definately plan on applying to DO schools. I know that i have to kick butt on the MCAT and that is what I plan to do. I was planning on taking a MCAT prep course, do most people study on their own, take a kaplan class or the princeton review??

I would strongly suggest you take a MCAT course (Kaplan or PR). Some people do very well studying on their own... however, usually these people got mostly As in all their pre-med courses... so they already have the material down pretty well. Since you seem to struggle a little (I mean... "struggle" is a relative word... I know you got Bs and that's good... but fof the MCAT you need to know the stuff like the back of your hand)... I think taking a course would really help you. Those review courses do a great job of going over all the material and pointing out to you what's really important. It also helps give stucture to your studying.

 

[shan1997]

thanks uffda and relatively prime, and others i appreciate the advice and comments and uffda, i will try the spread sheet of my grades and see what i come up with, it may not se as bad as i think when i re-calculate. I will ask my advisor if the psyc classes count or not

 

[shan1997]

I mentioned in my list of extracurricular activities that i have not had any RESEARCH experience yet, it that good or necessary to have???

 

[Su4n2]

Carbon,
i am curious if you have an upward trend or not. i have a 2.9 but w/C's in the beginning, and A's in Physics, orgo II, Embryology. your post makes me worried for when i aplly.

 

[shan1997]

why does my post make u worry?????

 

[efex101]

Shan, you need to take some more upper level biology/chemistry classes on top of the ones you need. Classes like cell and molecular biology, biochemistry, human physiology, etc. This will demonstrate to adcoms that you can and will handle the rigorous science classes that will be presented to you in medical school. Yes, some URM's do get in with lower GPA/MCAT *but* that is not a fact for all URM's. The ones that do get in albeit lower stats probably have some outstanding ec's, research, volunteering, tutoring, etc. You have to own the MCAT and do very well to compensate for your less than stellar GPA. From now own you need to get A's in your classes so you can actually put your money where your mouth is. Adcoms are leery (and who blames them with thousands of applications to chose from) of admitting folks that have not demonstrated via recent coursework that they can handle a tough science course load. Yes, you do have an edge because you are AA female and from an underserved area in Kentucky but regardless just beef up your application and you should be fine. Another thing, set up an appointment with the two schools in KY (med schools) and see what *they* have to say as far as how competitive you are. Also, there is a great book that is a must have for all URM's applying to medical school. It gives hard cold numbers of how many URM's applied to X or Y schools, how many were accepted, and how many have graduated from said schools. It is really helfpul when trying to see where to apply as a URM, you can purchase this book at the aamc bookstore at www.aamc.org. Good luck!

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by efex101
Shan, you need to take some more upper level biology/chemistry classes on top of the ones you need. Classes like cell and molecular biology, biochemistry, human physiology, etc. This will demonstrate to adcoms that you can and will handle the rigorous science classes that will be presented to you in medical school. Yes, some URM's do get in with lower GPA/MCAT *but* that is not a fact for all URM's. The ones that do get in albeit lower stats probably have some outstanding ec's, research, volunteering, tutoring, etc.

Great advice by efex101! I'd add that there is a more compelling reason for taking upper division courses or getting a Master's degree which I believe is the better option.

By taking additional classes you'll be in a better position to do well in medical school. Even if you do get in, you haven't demostrated to yourself that you can excell in demanding science courses. I'd personally hate to find out my sicentific weaknesses in medical school.

Good Luck!

 

[uffda]

aha - but if the OP takes more upper div science (e.g. biology) than the minimum required, this will also influence the ugrad BCPM GPA (albeit post-bacc) - whereas grad school courses would be on their own.

 

[Medici]

Originally posted by uffda
how many BCMP units do you have that are generating that GPA?

if it is just a few units, doing all the prereqs over you might be able to significantly raise it - if it is already alot of units, then you'll have to rely on a small amount of numeric movement and hope that the admissions folks will respect the upward trend.

try placing your coursework in a spreadsheet, add in all the prereq sciences (with units) you intend to take, assume you get an A in all of them <g> and see how your final BCMP GPA might look.

I have to provide a caution here...a number of universities I know of won't accept repeats of lower level courses to boost the average; instead, you have to take a higher level course to bump it up.

 

[rbassdo]

Maybe this has been pointed out already, but most schools have a science GPA cut-off. The lowest I've heard of is 2.50. So...

Also...have you considered another field? Not to destroy your dreams, but very low science grades, but great non-science grades tells me that you definitely have great intelligence in, possibly, other areas outside of "hard science." Just my two-cents.

Ryan

 

[ttac]

Originally posted by rbassdo
Maybe this has been pointed out already, but most schools have a science GPA cut-off. The lowest I've heard of is 2.50. So...

Also...have you considered another field? Not to destroy your dreams, but very low science grades, but great non-science grades tells me that you definitely have great intelligence in, possibly, other areas outside of "hard science." Just my two-cents.

Ryan

I've always wondered about this speculation that med schools have a GPA 'cutoff'... That is, if your GPA is < X, then your app gets trashed by computer, and never looked at by a human being.

I think what actually happens is that the computer program looks at your GPA, and if it is below a certain value, _AND_ your MCAT is below a certain value, then your file gets trashed (after of course, automatically sending you a secondary so they can cash your 100$ check) 🙄

My undergrad science GPA ended up being ~2.1, but with my 7 informal postbac classes, it probably would average to around a 2.4? on amcas... I did well on the MCAT (37R), interviewed at Creighton, USUHS, UC Davis, and Drexel, and eventually was accepted at Drexel and USUHS.

I guess I just wanted to point out that I don't think the GPA cutoffs are "absolute", if you did well on the MCAT, maybe the computer will flag your file to actually be looked at by a human being, rather than promptly being trashed.

-ttac

p.s. No, I am not a URM, I'm an asian male from CA.

 

[shan1997]

Thanks guys for all the comments and advice, I appreciate it and will take it all into consideration. I love the fact that I can come to this forum, voice concerns and get support and advice that will help me in the long run. It is much appreciated!