Teach for America

[notdeadyet]

In a somewhat ironic twist, perhaps I should point out who the Hoover Institution is affiliated with.

Sorry, I thought their home there was known. They love their association with the school. I wouldn't read too much into it. I doubt the folks at Berkeley's poli sci department are in love with the folks at Livermore Labs.

What isn't always as well advertised is that the mass of the Hoover Institution's funding is from right-leaning corporations and their Fellows are almost exclusively a laundry list of Republican/Conservative leadership. This doesn't necessarily discredit everything that comes out of their mouth, but on social programs, I would personally look at it very closely.

Of course, a graduate of Stanford's School of Education might have been more effective in my position than I was. Unfortunately, none applied for the job. In fact, no one from any prestigious teacher training program applied for any job in Warren County that year, or any other year, except for those who did so through TFA.

I'd be more impressed if she indicated that Warren County "that year, or any other year" didn't have any credentialed teachers come on board. From the wording, she's saying only that none from any "prestigious teacher training program" applied. Who cares where a teacher got their credential, as long as they went through the professinal training?

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[notdeadyet]

At any rate, I'll drop off the thread. Any attempts at voicing a mild disagreement of strategy with the Teach For America organization seems to really set folks off. Which I'm finding quite funny, as I'm not against the organization, I just have a disagreement with their strategy. I shudder to think if someone was actually against the group on this thread.

Personally, I've always tried to encourage alternate viewpoints in my classroom, but hey different strokes.

OP- If you're interested in two years of teaching experience followed by medical school (i.e.: not for the sake of following a path to credential and pursuing teaching as a professional career), TFA is a good choice. There are alternate programs as well, PM me if you're interested.

 

[Gut Shot]

Sorry, I thought their home their was known.

Yes, well, not everyone can be as worldy and learned as we.

I'd be more impressed if she indicated that Warren County "that year, or any other year" didn't have any credentialed teachers come on board.

You're right, that would have totally kicked ass, but suffice to say that credentialed teachers likely aren't clamoring to snatch up jobs in Warren County, NC.

 

[premeder]

if its a public school then all of the teachers need to be certified. however certification does not equal good teachers! certification just means that you took classes and took a test to be certified. you can have a degree in chemistry and get certified to teach physics even if you maybe took only 1 physics class ever. as long as you pass that test you're certified to teach physics. certificatio really means nothing

Yes, well, not everyone can be as worldy and learned as we.



You're right, that would have totally kicked ass, but suffice to say that credentialed teachers likely aren't clamoring to snatch up jobs in Warren County, NC.

 

[notdeadyet]

Yes, well, not everyone can be as worldy and learned as we.

No, I meant if you know about the Hoover Institution as an organization, you probably know its political bent. Apolgoies, no snobbery intended...

You're right, that would have totally kicked ass, but suffice to say that credentialed teachers likely aren't clamoring to snatch up jobs in Warren County, NC.

No, I wouldn't think so.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

At any rate, I'll drop off the thread. Any attempts at voicing a mild disagreement of strategy with the Teach For America organization seems to really set folks off. Which I'm finding quite funny, as I'm not against the organization, I just have a disagreement with their strategy. I shudder to think if someone was actually against the group on this thread.

Personally, I've always tried to encourage alternate viewpoints in my classroom, but hey different strokes.

OP- If you're interested in two years of teaching experience followed by medical school (i.e.: not for the sake of following a path to credential and pursuing teaching as a professional career), TFA is a good choice. There are alternate programs as well, PM me if you're interested.

The only caution about using an alternate program is that it will probably not be as widely recognized as TFA, and thus may make it a little more difficult if you try to get a deferment, etc. Any of these teaching programs would be a great thing to do, though, and I think that kind of experience would really make an applicant stand out (rather than the myriad essays I read about people volunteering overseas).

 

[msjenkins]

Ya'll should read Wendy Knopp's book about her struggle to found TFA and keep it running. Teach for America would love to accept more people, but doesn't have the funds to do so... its scraps up money at the last minute every year to train their matriculants. They are ridiculously successful at stretching every dollar as far as possible

Also, for the record, TFA is a selective program, not competitive. There is not X amount of spots available each year.. the admissions committee accepts all students whom they feel will be successful in the classroom. They have to ensure their corps members are going to excel in order to keep their high reputation and continue to prove that the program does work...

If you are skeptical of the program's success... check out their website full of compelling statistics.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE reading posts by people who have NO idea what they are talking about!
First of all, as a teach for america corps member finishing her second year in the lowest performing high school in Florida, my students would have had a substitute "teaching" them biology if it wasn't for me. I have heard horror stories from my students of past teachers I like to call worksheet pushers. They hand out a worksheet and sit at their desk and read the paper for the rest of the class. This is what my students would have had if they didn't have me an "unqualified resume padder." It really pisses me off.
I don't give a crap if med schools look favorably on my TFA experience. Whether or not they care, I do. I'm SO GLAD I did TFA, because I had the opportunity to do something REAL. And it was the hardest work I have ever done, but it has truly made me a more patient, compassionate person. My students have told me that I am the BEST science teacher they have ever had. Yet I'm just some silly little do-gooder trying to pad my resume.
TFA was one of the challenging experiences of my life, yet its also the one that means the most to me.
No matter what I do for the rest of my life, I will always be an advocate for education reform. Hopefully one day I will be in a position to make some real changes.

I agree. Read Wendy Kopp's book. Read about her GENUINE desire to change the raging education disparity in this country. Read about the challenges she has faced to keep the organization afloat before you start talking out of your ass.
And yes, there is no set number of corps members that get accepted every year. Each applicant is measured against 6 criteria that the most successful teachers possess, including a real genuine commitment to the underserved. True resume padders get weeded out in this process. If all 17,000 people that applied in 2005 possessed these 6 critera, all 17,000 would have been accepted. I know this for fact.
In my corps year, 12 people got nominated for rookie teacher of the year at their schools. That says a lot.
Do teach for america for two years. It will change your life no matter what you do.

 

[learss]

I want to state first that TFA is a great program and has inspired many college graduates to give back to their community through education.

However, it is only a two-year commitment. Students need stability and great role models. Many TFA teachers are great role models, but most will leave after 2 years. Additionally, it takes more than a summer to gain the necessary skills to become a great teacher. It takes practice and student teaching experience.

Great quotes for an editorial in the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/20/AR2007042001590.html

Unfortunately, the success of Teach for America reveals an unpleasant truth about how little we value education and children.there is no "Nurse for America" program, because it's inconceivable that someone could step in and provide nursing care after just two months of summer training.
Just imagine: "Hi, Mrs. Lingering. I'm John Merrow, your new nurse. I just graduated from Dartmouth. Now let's see. It says you get two cc's of this medicine. That's about the same as a tablespoon, isn't it? And I'm supposed to examine you. Do you know which orifice this instrument goes in?"
No, we will never have a Nurse for America program, because that profession's standards are higher than those of teaching.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/20/AR2007042001590.html

 

[physicsnerd42]

However, it is only a two-year commitment. Students need stability and great role models. Many TFA teachers are great role models, but most will leave after 2 years.

Okay, I've never done TFA, so I have nothing personally invested in it, but I think this is a pretty ridiculous criticism of the program. When you're in the sixth grade do you really care what your former fourth grade teach is now doing?

Additionally, it takes more than a summer to gain the necessary skills to become a great teacher. It takes practice and student teaching experience.

And I don't really think this is a valid criticism either. TFA volunteers may take only a summer of classes on how to teach, but they already have a B.S. or B.A. (hopefully in the subject they'll be teaching) so they really have quite a bit more than just one summer's training. Also, they bring enthusiasm to the job, which is a vital quality in a teacher that many "veteran" teachers with masters degrees in education lack. It's also important to consider that the districts TFA volunteers get sent to are in dire need of teachers (and a TFA volunteer is definitely better than no teacher at all). Also, consider that many private schools are more than happy to hire people as teachers who haven't finished credentialing as teachers for public schools.

I agree the program has faults, but it provides teachers for districts that need it, gives role models to children, and provides some of the future leaders of government and the private sector in this country a deeper understanding of the problems facing education.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Personally I wouldn't want to do it simply for the fact that I don't want to be mugged by the little gangbangers outside the ghetto school I would no doubt get assigned to teach at. Either that or I would be assigned a classroom in some rural county where there isn't a full set of teeth between all the kids there and out of what paltry percentage of the parents show up for parent/teacher conferences it would be hard pressed to find one who is not currently drunk or under the influence of some illegal substance they or a neighbor cooked in their trailer. No thanks......I'll stick with my current career plans thank you......

 

[Gut Shot]

However, it is only a two-year commitment.

In many regions where TFA operates the retention beyond two years is the same or better than the retention of new non-TFA teachers. Furthermore, if the commitment were extended the organization would likely have a much harder time attracting so many high caliber applicants. I'm sure they'd love it if every single TFA teacher stayed permanently, but such a goal is unrealistic, and they therefore have to strike a more modest balance.

P.S. If I'm not mistaken, approximately 70% of TFA alums remain in education in some capacity. One of the implicit missions is not just to crank out more teachers, but to fundamentally alter that way that young, affluent professionals view the educational system in this country.

P.P.S. The whole "but it's only a two year commitment" bit is ghey.

 

[learss]

Okay, I've never done TFA, so I have nothing personally invested in it, but I think this is a pretty ridiculous criticism of the program. When you're in the sixth grade do you really care what your former fourth grade teach is now doing?

And I don't really think this is a valid criticism either. TFA volunteers may take only a summer of classes on how to teach, but they already have a B.S. or B.A. (hopefully in the subject they'll be teaching) so they really have quite a bit more than just one summer's training. Also, they bring enthusiasm to the job, which is a vital quality in a teacher that many "veteran" teachers with masters degrees in education lack. It's also important to consider that the districts TFA volunteers get sent to are in dire need of teachers (and a TFA volunteer is definitely better than no teacher at all). Also, consider that many private schools are more than happy to hire people as teachers who haven't finished credentialing as teachers for public schools.

Actually many schools have classrooms where teachers stay with the same group of students for a number of years from lets say 1st to 3rd grade. It gives a chance for the teachers to have a strong working relationship with their students. By the way, when I was in sixth grade, I could still walk down the hallway to visit my fourth grade teacher.

A B.S. in a certain subject does not make you qualify to teach it. Let's say you are a biology major.
Can you honestly say that you can teach a high school or junior high school biology class?
How good are you dealing with learning disabilities?
Or abuse in the home?
Drug use?
Can you do accurate evaluations of your students?
Do you know required knowledge skills for your students at that particular grade level?
What about the Biology Club that needs a sponsor?

Teaching is a not a career field that can be accurately taught in just one summer. I probably spent more training for my finance job than someone teaching children. Lets put more value on education. I want to retain teachers and not have a revolving door of enthusiastic graduates coming in and out of schools. Not a criticism of TFA. It is a great program.

On the subject of enthusiasm, would you rather have an enthusiastic intern fresh out of medical school or a sullen looking "veteran" surgeon operating on you or your family?

 

[msjenkins]

For all the TFA critics out there, I extend this challenge to you:

A. Come up with a BETTER plan than TFA, since there are "better" options out there.
B. Start the program from scratch and raise all the money by yourself to get it started.
C. Go into the classroom yourself and teach, and actually do something about educational equality in this country instead of bashing people who are making an honest effort to do so.

 

[msjenkins]

There is also no raging shortage of nurses in low-income communities. This is a moot point. Teachers just DO NOT WANT to teach in low income communities. I would rather have the brightest, most capable passionate young people who were trained in 5 weeks to teach a subject they got a degree in, rather than no teacher at all. Yes this does happen. There are classes in the high school I teach that have been subbed all year because they could not fill the position. Again, In my corps year, 12 teachers nominated for rookie of the year. Training can take a person with mediocre abilities only so far, but a person who excels in whatever they take on can do so much with little training.

 

[notdeadyet]

There is also no raging shortage of nurses in low-income communities. This is a moot point.

Actually, there is a raging nursing shortage and it's more prevalent at public hospitals devoted to the medically underserved than at cush private hospital jobs. The nursing shortage is very real.

 

[notdeadyet]

Training can take a person with mediocre abilities only so far, but a person who excels in whatever they take on can do so much with little training.

The implication that folks who have pursued a career in teaching and go to the effort of achieving the accepted industry standard of entry-level credential qualifications are somehow "mediocre" as compared to the kids recruited with zero experience, great grades, and a whole lot of ambition is a bit offensive.

 

[notdeadyet]

For all the TFA critics out there, I extend this challenge to you:

A. Come up with a BETTER plan than TFA, since there are "better" options out there.

There are. They are called credentialed teachers.

B. Start the program from scratch and raise all the money by yourself to get it started.

No need. The program exists. And very few folks are arguing that our teachers need less training. Advanced teaching credentials aren't going anywhere.

Many folks seem to have about "the kids", which I respect, and everyone loves the idea of hitting the classroom after five weeks of training, which I understand. Teaching is fun. But I'd love to see folks who were so passionate about the issue that sent a year, say, devoted to fund raising to hire qualified teachers. Not as common, because it's not as fun.

C. Go into the classroom yourself and teach, and actually do something about educational equality in this country instead of bashing people who are making an honest effort to do so.

Five years of full time teaching experience here. And by the way, this is the first time I've ever heard the "America: Love It or Leave It!!!" applied to education.... Please, let's leave that to the right wing, no?

Folks: you have to accept that TFA is not without controversey. While I applaud the programs efforts, I have reservations. And many folks with a whole lot more experience than anyone on this board are uncomfortable with it too.

So if you like TFA and how it executes- go for it! Get involved and sing its praises from the rafters. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But don't get personally offended with folks who have valid concerns about what TFA does and how it does it.

 

[msjenkins]

Personally I wouldn't want to do it simply for the fact that I don't want to be mugged by the little gangbangers outside the ghetto school I would no doubt get assigned to teach at. Either that or I would be assigned a classroom in some rural county where there isn't a full set of teeth between all the kids there and out of what paltry percentage of the parents show up for parent/teacher conferences it would be hard pressed to find one who is not currently drunk or under the influence of some illegal substance they or a neighbor cooked in their trailer. No thanks......I'll stick with my current career plans thank you......

Wow. I hope I am never your patient.

 

[msjenkins]

The implication that folks who have pursued a career in teaching and go to the effort of achieving the accepted industry standard of entry-level credential qualifications are somehow "mediocre" as compared to the kids recruited with zero experience, great grades, and a whole lot of ambition is a bit offensive.

Teach For America wouldn't exist if these teachers (see bold) were at my school. The fact of the matter is, THEY AREN'T. And they don't want to be. (see DropkickMurphy) There is no crowd of highly skilled teachers fighting to get into the doors of Miami Central high. Quite the opposite, actually. The turn-over rate at my school is disastrous (and this has nothing to do with TFA. There are only 3 TFA teachers at my school out of about 150).
You also don't seem to have much knowledge about what it takes to become a credentialed teacher in this country. I am a credentialed teacher, and all I did to get my teaching certificate, that piece of paper that says I can legally teach in Florida, is take a test called "The General Knowledge Exam" that tested just that, general knowledge. The only other requirement is a bachelors degree... in anything, not just in education.

 

[msjenkins]

There are. They are called credentialed teachers.

No need. The program exists. And very few folks are arguing that our teachers need less training. Advanced teaching credentials aren't going anywhere. THERE ARE NO TEACHERS WITH "ADVANCED" CREDENTIALS AT MY SCHOOL.

Many folks seem to have about "the kids", which I respect, and everyone loves the idea of hitting the classroom after five weeks of training, which I understand. Teaching is fun. NOT AT SCHOOLS LIKE MINE. But I'd love to see folks who were so passionate about the issue that sent a year, say, devoted to fund raising to hire qualified teachers. OH, THE MONEY IS THERE! I FILED MY TAXES LAST YEAR WITH AN SALARY OF $45,000. 20% MORE THAN THE BEGINNING TEACHER'S SALARY AT AN "A" GRADED SCHOOL IN FLORIDA. PEOPLE GLADLY TURN DOWN THE EXTRA MONEY TO KEEP THEIR CUSHY SUBURBAN TEACHING JOBS, AS I'M SURE THE ONE YOU HAV IS. Not as common, because it's not as fun.

Five years of full time teaching experience here. AGAIN, TEACH AT A SCHOOL LIKE MINE AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THE URGENT NEED THAT EVERYONE SAYS DOES NOT EXIST. And by the way, this is the first time I've ever heard the "America: Love It or Leave It!!!" applied to education.... Please, let's leave that to the right wing, no?

Folks: you have to accept that TFA is not without controversey. While I applaud the programs efforts, I have reservations. And many folks with a whole lot more experience than anyone on this board are uncomfortable with it too.

So if you like TFA and how it executes- go for it! Get involved and sing its praises from the rafters. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But don't get personally offended with folks who have valid concerns about what TFA does and how it does it.

So far, I'm very dissapointed in what are supposed to be "future doctors"

 

[msjenkins]

Actually, there is a raging nursing shortage and it's more prevalent at public hospitals devoted to the medically underserved than at cush private hospital jobs. The nursing shortage is very real.

If there is a shortage, it is a shortage of nurses, period. As in total number of practicing nurses. The teaching shortage is much, much different. There are more than enough teachers in america, but there is a shortage of teachers, who are willing to put up with the challenges of a low-performing inner-city school. So much so that school districts everywhere are coming up with incentives to attract good teachers. All the low-performing schools in Miami-Dade county are classified as "zone" schools, and teacher's at zone schools make 20% more than teachers at non-zone schools. So a first year teacher with a bachelors degree would normally start at $37,000, a first year teacher at a zone school earns $44,400 (see http://salary.dadeschools.net/Schd_Teachers/) And that's just the financial incentive. At my school, it's not enough to keep teachers. Offer a similar incentive package to encourage nurses to practice in low-income areas, and I'm sure more people would think about nursing as a career. That is not the case for teachers.

 

[msjenkins]

I have yet to be convinced, after reading differing opinions and comparing them to my own experience in the classroom, that the state of education in this country would be better off without programs, like Teach For America, Miami Teaching Fellows, NYC Teaching Fellows, etc. For all it's controversy and applicable criticism, they are still doing a world of good. The real problem is that there is a need for programs like TFA in the first place! And this is a problem that only sweeping policy change can tackle. Teach for America is on that too. Teach for America has begun an initiative to help place TFA alums in educational policy positions, (see #3 on this page
http://teachforamerica.org/about/our_growth_plan.htm) and in school leadership positions (http://teachforamerica.org/alumni/sli/index.htm) A great deal of TFA alums *do* go on to work in education in some form or another. A great deal ( I think around 60% but I'd have to check) go on to teach for a third year at the school they are placed. It is a slow movement, yes, but once it reaches the tipping point, when there are enough of us out there who know intimately the complex challenges of the current educational system, then I'm convinced widespread change will be made.
We can nitpick for eternity about minute details of the program, but again, I have yet to be convinced that TFA is a bad thing, or that we are better off without it.


http://teachforamerica.org/about/our_growth_plan.htm

 

[msjenkins]

Sorry, I thought their home there was known. They love their association with the school. I wouldn't read too much into it. I doubt the folks at Berkeley's poli sci department are in love with the folks at Livermore Labs.

What isn't always as well advertised is that the mass of the Hoover Institution's funding is from right-leaning corporations and their Fellows are almost exclusively a laundry list of Republican/Conservative leadership. This doesn't necessarily discredit everything that comes out of their mouth, but on social programs, I would personally look at it very closely.


I'd be more impressed if she indicated that Warren County "that year, or any other year" didn't have any credentialed teachers come on board. From the wording, she's saying only that none from any "prestigious teacher training program" applied. Who cares where a teacher got their credential, as long as they went through the professinal training?

I see this is a common misunderstanding. There is no "professional training" to become a teacher. Hard to beleive, but no teacher in my dept, the science dept, was an education major. Not one. They all became teachers the same way: passing a certification test called the "General Knowledge Test" which is like a watered down SAT. The math and reading were on an 8th grade level. In order for me to get a Biology Teaching certificate, I had to take another test, the Subject Area Test, where I was asked the most basic biology questions. The bar is not that high people. If you wanted to be a teacher, it's as simple as that. No special training, no education degree, no teaching portfolio. Nothing but a test and a bachelors degree. I went into my first year of teaching, with only 5 weeks of intensive training under my belt (learning theory, lesson planning, differentiated instruction, instructional methods) MORE TRAINED than every other teacher in my dept was in their first year! This past year, I taught Ms. Chandler, a college grad attracted by the high starting salary to teach Earth Space Science, how to write a lesson plan! She had ZERO training as a teacher, yet was hired anyway. She quit by november. These are the "credentialed" teachers that TFA corps members are replacing.

 

[Steve203]

TFA is a huge ripoff...at least for people with a math or science degree....Every school district in underserved area is literally starved for anyone with a math or science degree. As long as you have a BS you can pretty much teach at any of these places. The only difference is that instead of being paid $28,000 a year, you get paid $40,000.

Its funny when I hear people talk about TFA. We have one girl at my job who does TFA...I came in the same time she did, we have the same qualifications, and we teach the same subject, but I make $12,000 a year more than her since I found my own job and wasn't a lackey for TFA.

In the fairy tale world of SDN this makes me a bad person.

 

[msjenkins]

TFA is a huge ripoff...at least for people with a math or science degree....Every school district in underserved area is literally starved for anyone with a math or science degree. As long as you have a BS you can pretty much teach at any of these places. The only difference is that instead of being paid $28,000 a year, you get paid $40,000.

Its funny when I hear people talk about TFA. We have one girl at my job who does TFA...I came in the same time she did, we have the same qualifications, and we teach the same subject, but I make $12,000 a year more than her since I found my own job and wasn't a lackey for TFA.

In the fairy tale world of SDN this makes me a bad person.

You do realize TFA doesn't pay teachers, right? We are paid by the school districts we teach for. If you make more money, there is probably a reason, or your school district is being unfair. TFA does not negotiate salaries with districts--we are not cheap labor.

 

[Steve203]

You do realize TFA doesn't pay teachers, right? We are paid by the school districts we teach for. If you make more money, there is probably a reason, or your school district is being unfair. TFA does not negotiate salaries with districts--we are not cheap labor.

I had no idea..my coworker made it sound like TFA screwed her over and thats why she was making significantly less than others in the deparment....turns out she's the idiot.

 

[Gut Shot]

I had no idea..my coworker made it sound like TFA screwed her over and thats why she was making significantly less than others in the deparment....turns out she's the idiot.

TFA members do have to go through training without pay, but MsJenkins is correct, they are paid by the school districts they work for. Furthermore, these districts are under no obligation to hire TFA teachers, so if there wasn't a need for them they'd be largely unemployed.

 

[notdeadyet]

You also don't seem to have much knowledge about what it takes to become a credentialed teacher in this country. I am a credentialed teacher, and all I did to get my teaching certificate, that piece of paper that says I can legally teach in Florida, is take a test called "The General Knowledge Exam" that tested just that, general knowledge. The only other requirement is a bachelors degree... in anything, not just in education.

Ah. You are teaching under what is known in California (though apparently not Florida) as the "Emergency Credential".

In California, and in most states, teachers in public elementary and secondary schools are required to complete a teaching preparation program (aka a credential program). It takes about a year to complete. When folks in education ask if you have a "teaching credential", this is what they are referring to.

In many subjects in many areas, you can teach on a "emergency credential" in which they waive lots of the requirements due to the fact that they can't fill the position with qualified teachers. In this case, in lieu of experience/training, you need to have a BA, a pulse, and finish a standardized test that is a snap. You can apply directly or via teaching fellows programs and groups like TFA.

 

[notdeadyet]

THERE ARE NO TEACHERS WITH "ADVANCED" CREDENTIALS AT MY SCHOOL.

When you have a problem recruiting for a position, one solution is to lower the qualifications. This is what is happening in education. This is what I disagree with.

Teaching is fun. NOT AT SCHOOLS LIKE MINE.

If you're not having fun teaching at an early age, you shouldn't be doing it. Burn out is for those who've been doing it a while, and I have a hunch you haven't.

PEOPLE GLADLY TURN DOWN THE EXTRA MONEY TO KEEP THEIR CUSHY SUBURBAN TEACHING JOBS, AS I'M SURE THE ONE YOU HAV IS.

Hmmm... based on your attitude and knowledge of the field, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are new to teaching and not long out of college. You're making assumptions and grand generalizations about education, which make me think that you're probably a recent product of it but haven't practiced it as a career for long. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.

So far, I'm very dissapointed in what are supposed to be "future doctors"

We'll survive. Again, I'm not against TFA, I just recognize it's shortcomings and am worried about what an acceptance of unqualified teachers in our classroom represents. Not about the students (who don't have a choice) or the young teachers (who hopefully are doing it for the right reasons), but what it says about a voting public that values education so little.

 

[msjenkins]

When you have a problem recruiting for a position, one solution is to lower the qualifications. This is what is happening in education. This is what I disagree with.

If you're not having fun teaching at an early age, you shouldn't be doing it. Burn out is for those who've been doing it a while, and I have a hunch you haven't.

Hmmm... based on your attitude and knowledge of the field, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are new to teaching and not long out of college. You're making assumptions and grand generalizations about education, which make me think that you're probably a recent product of it but haven't practiced it as a career for long. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.

We'll survive. Again, I'm not against TFA, I just recognize it's shortcomings and am worried about what an acceptance of unqualified teachers in our classroom represents. Not about the students (who don't have a choice) or the young teachers (who hopefully are doing it for the right reasons), but what it says about a voting public that values education so little.

Then notdeadyet, I agree with you 100%

 

[eldoctor]

Anybody have any recent experience with TFA? I had a meeting with a recruiter a couple days ago who was pushing REALLY hard for me to sign up. I have always wanted to do this, but the two year commitment is not something I'm completely convinced about. The recruiter also pushed a little bit too much for my liking, and it made me think that maybe he had ulterior motives for wanting me to sign up. Anybody have good/bad experiences to share about TFA?

 

[LizzyM]

There is an interesting website with blog entries from a number of TFA teachers. (One of them is my niece.) http://teachforus.org/

However, I was amazed at the candidness of some of the writers, and the hardships and heartbreak, particularly in areas where personal safety and classroom decorum are in short supply.

 

[shiite7]

I applied to TFA, got to the final interview, but did not receive an invitation. I did a fair amount of research before applying and generally found that people's real experiences are generally in stark contrast with the romanticized notion that TFA and its advertising/spokespersons let on in the media. On YouTube, there are seven ~5-minute clips of different TFA teachers and their experiences (in New Orleans). Of the seven or so, only one remained in teaching (aka really enjoyed her job), one was terminated early, one quit early, one had his laptop stolen, and there is a perceivable sense of real frustration and jadedness. I'm glad I'm going to be serving in the Peace Corps instead of TFA. IMO, I would have been much more miserable doing TFA, despite the benefit of an actual income in TFA...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ6BmABQbXY

 

[loveoforganic]

I mean, I think reasonable expectations are necessary going in. If you're going into inner city New Orleans junior high/high school, you're going to be swamped with gangs, drugs, weapons, and kids in general who have a whole lot more to be concerned about than trying to get a degree. If you don't have some hardcore navy seal leadership ability and an uncanny ability to form relationships with people, maybe you should consider another area.

 

[Teach4us2MD]

As you can tell from my username, I am a current Corps Member. TFA is a wonderful organization and really shows you the hardships of our society. I teach Pre-K and it is probably the hardest job I have ever had. I deal with children who would not eat if they didn't go to school, during a time where our budget is in extreme deficit, and most of my students, despite a previous year in Preschool, have no concept of letters and letter sounds.

In comparison to my colleagues, my classroom is WAY more academic. In Pre-K, what some would argue as the most formative years of a child's life, the standards for a teacher to be credentialed is a high school diploma. They have 4 community college classes at most. My students' parents are always excited because their children come out of school each day learning how to decode words which translates to literacy.

Everyday, I close the achievement gap before it begins and I know that when I am a pediatrician, I will be able to understand a child's cognition and can decipher if my explanation of a diagnosis/treatment is developmentally appropriate (and after being a sick kid, trust me, some doctors just don't care to explain well). If you are considering TFA, I say go for it. Our 5 week teacher boot camp is not all the training we receive. We have monthly trainings and Program Directors who act as field supervisors and continue to add to professional development. After 3 weeks in the classroom, all of my students have surpassed the growth they achieved in a whole yea,r last year with a non TFA teacher.

 

[Disinence2]

Medical training is long enough as it is.

I wouldn't add on another 2 years unless teaching is something you are very very serious about.

 

[Signifier]

I am currently a Teach for America teacher at a high school in CT. It is the hardest job I have ever had, it is profoundly time consuming, it is often soul crushing and brain/body-draining. A few times it's even been physically painful 🙂 Some of the corps members I entered with have quit, and several of those have quit in a quite explosive manner.

In short, it's hard as hell. Do not do this unless you want to teach (and you probably don't) and have a strong resolve to work hard, plus an ability to put up with all manner of stress.

That said, this experience has also been profoundly meaningful to me. I agree with previous posters in the sentiment that it does a lot for the people who apply, are accepted, and manage to survive and thrive. You develop a lot, and not in cheap or trite ways either. Trust me.

Last word: the notion that TFA recruits are teachers for 2 years and then bail, and that this subsequently has an overall negative effect, is nonsense. Most of the corps members I know who have taught for 2 years are returning for a third. Those who are not, are by and large going on to do other productive things. And their schools and students are, believe it or not, mostly better off as a result of their 2 year commitment.

 

[bunnity]

After reading through this I wanted to point out that every geographic area is going to have its own situation and that extrapolating from your own probably is inaccurate.

For example, there were people saying that no credentialed teachers applied to their schools. Here in Philadelphia the school district had a hiring freeze over the summer. They did not hire the newly graduated teachers from Penn with master's degrees that all WANTED to work for the district. However, they chose to "honor their agreement" with TFA and place TFA teachers during the hiring freeze. So it turned out that the district hired TFA kids while freezing out qualified teachers, and most of the highly qualified graduates of the urban education program at Penn had been forced to find jobs elsewhere.

Now, this was completely the school district's fault and not TFA's fault. But there are situations where there are credentialed teachers that want the jobs are being denied them in favor of TFA.

 

[DrDrummer]

Third year teaching in TFA placement classroom, successful current applicant. Matriculating next year.

TFA has a lot of haters, but as I tell my kids, haters gonna hate, na'mean? Their criticisms are not without merit, but they tend to be short in supplying solutions-- I'm not going to rehash what's already been said. I'm glad I did it, I love teaching, and will miss it. Plenty of people do not have as good of an experience as I did, and your mileage will certainly vary.

But at these schools, math and science teachers are in super high-demand. It's total B.S. that you cannot make a significant impact on a school in 2-3 years-- I know that I have created changes at my school and within my department that will outlast me. Not just in the materials that I leave behind and the students that I've pushed ahead, but in terms of getting other teachers to use data, push the rigor of assessments higher (and they saw that kids met the raised bar), and thinking differently about poverty, themselves as professionals, and approaches to remediation. No, I'm not going pro in education, but plenty of my friends are, and ALL of us will act out the rest of our lives differently as a function of the time we spent in the corps. Myself very much included.

If you want to know more about my TFA experience (or anyone who finds this thread), PM me. I serve in the Houston region. Good luck making your decision.

 

[Endolas]

I think of this whenever someone mentions TFA:

How I Joined Teach for America—and Got Sued for $20 Million
Joshua Kaplowitz

 

[sarandipity]

To the TFA corps members,

Out of pure curiosity and no malice whatsoever, why do you choose to pursue medicine? Most of you seem very dedicated to education and helping underserved children reach the potential that all of us -- college educated, medical school bound people -- were privileged enough to experience.

One of my good friends from college is an Oakland TFA corps member who started out pre-med and now completely committed to teaching. Is this not the desired effect TFA should have? How will being a doctor help children in these communities? As a busy medical student, how will you motivate these children to go to college? Will you write their letters of recommendation?

I admire TFA members ability to survive two to three years in these communities. I have heard the horror stories. I repeat, I amNOT putting TFA members down in any way.

Just why medicine? Why not commit to teaching or influencing public policy for better education?

 

[DrDrummer]

Just why medicine? Why not commit to teaching or influencing public policy for better education?

People have different strengths, and I think that being an effective physician who can simultaneously advocate for low-income communities/member of those communities can certainly allow you to impact them and help.

Personally, I know that over the long haul, there's no way I could sustain what I was doing in the classroom. I could have gone into administration, and become a principal, but I strongly dislike managing adults and would've done so with a Michelle Rhee-esque mentality, which we've seen is not conducive to building good relationships with communities.

Education is an industry which unfortunately tolerates people doing their absolute minimum (and sometimes worse). Medicine does not. It holds its practitioners to a much higher professional standard, and this appeals to me. I know that most docs come from upper middle-class backgrounds, and rarely have spent time beyond whatever they padded their AMCAS app with living or working in a low-income community. Certainly in a teaching hospital you interact with the people who come in, but that's not what I'm talking about. I think my teaching experience will make me a better doc because I'll be better able to communicate with my patients, and that the intellectual toolbox I ended up having is better lined up with affecting change via an MD (and perhaps an MPH) than it is in the classroom.

But FWIW, there are a lot of people who have their post-TFA ambitions totally derailed by the experience. I almost did. As I said in a commencement address at the end of my two years, nobody can walk away from this experience and NOT be an advocate for change in education, and for the people that live in the communities we serve. Tough to say how that advocacy manifests, but it happens.

 

[sarandipity]

Education is an industry which unfortunately tolerates people doing their absolute minimum (and sometimes worse).

I completely agree with you. It is very, very unfortunate.