teach for america

[matanpucla]

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anyone else considering this? I just applied. I think I would go to med school next year if i get an acceptance, but if i don't, i think it would be a great opportunity for me.

i know people say not to do it as a back up plan, but if i go into it with enthusiasm and don't expect it to be all rainbows and roses, and use the experience to grow as a person and really try to make a difference for the students, i think that's cool.

what do you all think?

 

[Wait For It]

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[doorner]

TFA: using poor high school students as guinea pigs for inexperienced ivy alum 'teachers' since 1989. Great for your résumé, though.

 

[phibio]

I am a current TFA corps member teaching high school science. I'll be an M1 in the fall.

I have grown so much in my own leadership, work ethic, relationship building (with students, parents, administration, colleagues etc.) that I can't imagine trying to enter this profession without it. There are numerous parallels between the two professions and I know the experience has prepared me well for certain aspects of medicine.

That being said, every placement region is different and your placement school and subject can have a dramatic effect on your experience. If you're doing it simply to boost your resume.. don't. It is incredibly hard work but equally as rewarding.

 

[commander1]

I am a current TFA corps member teaching high school science. I'll be an M1 in the fall.

I have grown so much in my own leadership, work ethic, relationship building (with students, parents, administration, colleagues etc.) that I can't imagine trying to enter this profession without it. There are numerous parallels between the two professions and I know the experience has prepared me well for certain aspects of medicine.

That being said, every placement region is different and your placement school and subject can have a dramatic effect on your experience. If you're doing it simply to boost your resume.. don't. It is incredibly hard work but equally as rewarding.

+a million. I was going to put in my two cents, but this is exactly what I was going to say.

 

[BABSstudent]

TFA: using poor high school students as guinea pigs for inexperienced ivy alum 'teachers' since 1989. Great for your résumé, though.

Sadly, I think most of the people that do TFA do it for the resume building and not for the direct desire to teach underprivileged children.

However, I am biased. My fiancee has spent the last five years getting her undergrad and masters degree in education. I think it is kind of stupid that someone can take a few weeks of classes and be labeled as a "teacher" when others spend the five or more years to get a masters.

Plus, it isn't like everyone starts out as a great teacher. Most take two to four years to become a good teacher and a few more to become a great one. And this isn't even true in all situations. Some people are just not meant to teach since there is more to being a teacher than just being smart.

Overall, if you do TFA, I think you should only do it if you actually want to teach. Don't do it for the resume building or you, and your students, will suffer.

 

[Narmerguy]

Sadly, I think most of the people that do TFA do it for the resume building and not for the direct desire to teach underprivileged children.

However, I am biased. My fiancee has spent the last five years getting her undergrad and masters degree in education. I think it is kind of stupid that someone can take a few weeks of classes and be labeled as a "teacher" when others spend the five or more years to get a masters.

Plus, it isn't like everyone starts out as a great teacher. Most take two to four years to become a good teacher and a few more to become a great one. And this isn't even true in all situations. Some people are just not meant to teach since there is more to being a teacher than just being smart.

Overall, if you do TFA, I think you should only do it if you actually want to teach. Don't do it for the resume building or you, and your students, will suffer.

TFA: using poor high school students as guinea pigs for inexperienced ivy alum 'teachers' since 1989. Great for your résumé, though.

Be that as it may, most of the heavy research on TFA so far shows either no benefit over normal teachers or some benefit (on average) over normal teachers. For the most part, the experiment seems to be having marginal benefits. Keep in mind that the education in the schools these TFA teachers are being sent to are not great performing school. These schools aren't the kind that attract a bunch of highly qualified teachers with masters degrees.

That said, I think the biggest benefit of TFA is not their improvement over normal teachers but their role in exposing mostly middle-income/affluent college students to the struggles of education. This as much includes the terrible barriers students in low-resourced areas face as the overwhelming difficulty teachers face in helping them. It continues to keep this issue front and center for a population that historically has not concerned itself with such issues.

 

[circulus vitios]

i know people say not to do it as a back up plan, but if i go into it with enthusiasm and don't expect it to be all rainbows and roses, and use the experience to pad my medical school application, i think that's cool.

Fixed. 👍

 

[matanpucla]

Fixed. 👍

well thx for that input. i actually do have interest in teaching underserved kids, i've worked with them in the past before. i have no doubt it will be a challenge to do TFA, but i do believe that I will put in my all if i do end up doing it.

just because I would rather go to medical school doesn't mean I also wouldn't put effort into something else.

 

[NickNaylor]

well thx for that input. i actually do have interest in teaching underserved kids, i've worked with them in the past before. i have no doubt it will be a challenge to do TFA, but i do believe that I will put in my all if i do end up doing it.

just because I would rather go to medical school doesn't mean I also wouldn't put effort into something else.

My only advice would be to do your research and talk to as many former TFA people as you can. TFA can be an extremely difficult experience - probably more difficult than you would ever expect. Just know what you're getting yourself into before you commit two years of your life to it.

 

[Planes2Doc]

TFA: using poor high school students as guinea pigs for inexperienced ivy alum 'teachers' since 1989. Great for your résumé, though.

If you're doing it simply to boost your resume.. don't. It is incredibly hard work but equally as rewarding.

Fixed. 👍

I'm not going to pretend to know things about the educational field, but then again, my girlfriend is getting her master's in education so I can ask her about things. When I asked her about Teach for America, the first thing she said was that it's the ultimate way to get your foot in the door. This is for teaching, as she is not premed and has absolutely no ambitions to ever go to medical school. She said the only reason she didn't do it is because she doesn't want to move.

In terms of medical schools, I can see how Teach for America would be extremely helpful. Medical schools love to see one's bleeding heart desire to help the underserved. Like the longer commitments like Peace Corps or City Corps, I am sure that this does look good. Once again though, these commitments should not be taken lightly, as you will have quite a bit of responsibilities.

It continues to keep this issue front and center for a population that historically has not concerned itself with such issues.

I'm from Chicago, and there is an absolutely enormous discrepancy between the quality of the suburban schools (especially on the North Shore) versus the Chicago Public Schools (CPS), which are considered to be some of the worst in the nation. Most people I've met from my area that went into education were trying to get into suburban schools. Some people that graduated from highly ranked institutions like Northwestern, University of Chicago, and the University of Illinois in Urbana/Champaign were able to get in. The people I've met that went to lower ranked schools like Illinois State University ended up going mostly to CPS schools if they decided to stay in the Chicago area. Anyhow, most people I've met that went to the poor CPS schools were using it to get their foot in the door, and get the hell out of there to a suburban school as quickly as possible. These people were definitely exposed to that population, and very few wanted to stay.

I think in general medical schools throw premeds into underserved populations, especially when they try to volunteer in free clinics. Premeds understand that ADCOMs want to see bleeding heart applicants, so that they can help the underserved populations as practicing physicians. But as we can see, despite around 80% of medical school matriculants taking part in community service, and likely telling ADCOMs how they are dying to help the underserved populations year after year after year, we see that the underserved populations are still... Underserved! Unfortunately, if someone has never cared about something, in this case, the poor; then it is doubtful that most of these people will change dramatically after being exposed to these populations. I know that some people can view this as an enlightening life changing experience, but for most it will probably be a means to an end. Just like a lot of Teach for America teachers (or CPS teachers) are looking for a stepping stone toward more desirable schools, premeds are trying to get acceptance to medical school. They aren't stupid, and understand that helping the poor definitely makes an application look sexy. People are difficult to change, and this is the case here. I think most people will still use this to improve their resumes, to move onto "better" things in life.

If they weren't, then we'd see a shift of Ivy League teachers filling up the poor schools and the underserved patients no longer being underserved. But this is life. As unpolitically correct as it may sound, the underserved schools, hospitals, clinics, etc are underserved because they are just less desirable for most people to work in.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

I had about 10 friends do TFA in NYC. Most were in Harlem or Bronx. They said about half the people will get eaten alive by the students during their first year. The other half make it. One of them got in to Mt. Sinai after but he also had a 35 MCAT.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I had about 10 friends do TFA in NYC. Most were in Harlem or Bronx. They said about half the people will get eaten alive by the students during their first year. The other half make it. One of them got in to Mt. Sinai after but he also had a 35 MCAT.

Are these medical school friends?

 

[matanpucla]

I had about 10 friends do TFA in NYC. Most were in Harlem or Bronx. They said about half the people will get eaten alive by the students during their first year. The other half make it. One of them got in to Mt. Sinai after but he also had a 35 MCAT.

man i can't even imagine how tough it would be to teach a class in one of those areas, i have no idea if i would be one of the people who make it or don't. although i do have pretty tough skin.

and i do have a 35 mcat....i'll update you guys on how my app to TFA goes.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Are these medical school friends?

I haven't started med school yet. Only one of those friends was interested in medicine, the guy who is at Mt. Sinai. The rest are either in law school now or went on to some type of educational administration job.

man i can't even imagine how tough it would be to teach a class in one of those areas, i have no idea if i would be one of the people who make it or don't. although i do have pretty tough skin.

and i do have a 35 mcat....i'll update you guys on how my app to TFA goes.

My one friend who went the special education route said he was dealing with mostly Carribean immigrants from Jamaica, Dominican Republic, or Puerto Rico. He said he was teaching 7-8 grade but the students were like anywhere from 13 to 18 years old and mostly emotionally disturbed children. He had a lot of confiscated weapons. A teacher at a high school nearby in the Bronx had been murdered by students.

edit: the teacher that was shot was not a TFA student by the way

 

[Planes2Doc]

I'm haven't started med school yet. Only one of those friends was interested in medicine, the guy who is at Mt. Sinai. The rest are either in law school now or went on to some type of educational administration job.

My one friend who went the special education route said he was dealing with mostly Carribean immigrants from Jamaica, Dominican Republic, or Puerto Rico. He said he was teaching 7-8 grade but the students were like anywhere from 13 to 18 years old. He had a lot of confiscated weapons. A teacher at a high school nearby in the Bronx had been murdered by students.

YIKES to the last part!!! 🙁 That's absolutely horrible.

I was just looking to see if these friends stayed in the underserved areas, or moved on to "better things" as my girlfriend was implying. By the way, I'm not judging your friends, and I hope I don't sound that way. It's just the way things are. The world is a competitive and unforgiving place, so people need to do what they have to do. Good for them. 👍

 

[Arbor Vitae]

YIKES to the last part!!! 🙁 That's absolutely horrible.

I was just looking to see if these friends stayed in the underserved areas, or moved on to "better things" as my girlfriend was implying. By the way, I'm not judging your friends, and I hope I don't sound that way. It's just the way things are. The world is a competitive and unforgiving place, so people need to do what they have to do. Good for them. 👍

Most of them are in some sort of professional school, law seemed to be most popular, or government work in DC. All were interested in public service. Yeah, the teacher shooting thing was a horror story they told, but that was a pretty freak incident. My friend said all his students in Bronx looked up to him and he would play basketball with them even though they could dunk on him. The schools all have medical detectors, but the the incident with the teacher who got shot was from an angry student who showed up at his house. That teacher was not a TFA student by the way.

The ones I know who stayed in teaching still work in underserved areas, including one in Hawaii working with the local population. But the ones in professional school obviously did it for a resume booster and seem to be moving on to "better things."

 

[Planes2Doc]

Most of them are in some sort of professional school, law seemed to be most popular, or government work in DC. All were interested in public service. Yeah, the teacher shooting thing was a horror story they told, but that was a pretty freak incident. My friend said all his students in Bronx looked up to him and he would play basketball with them even though they could dunk on him. The schools all have medical detectors, but the the incident with the teacher who got shot was from an angry student who showed up at his house.

The ones I know who stayed in teaching still work in underserved areas, including one in Hawaii working with the local population. But the one's in professional school obviously did it for a resume booster and seem to be moving on to "better things."

Oh I see... Life happens. As for your friend in Hawaii, I don't think that's too bad of a place to be serving the underserved. 😉

I'm just going off based on what my girlfriend said, and based on what people from my area do. There are tons of applications for the suburban schools here, so it's extremely competitive. I think a lot of people view TFA as an excellent resume booster. I'm glad that your friends are doing meaningful things though. Best of luck to them!

 

[pineapplepancakes]

I am a current TFA corps member teaching high school science. I'll be an M1 in the fall.

I have grown so much in my own leadership, work ethic, relationship building (with students, parents, administration, colleagues etc.) that I can't imagine trying to enter this profession without it. There are numerous parallels between the two professions and I know the experience has prepared me well for certain aspects of medicine.

That being said, every placement region is different and your placement school and subject can have a dramatic effect on your experience. If you're doing it simply to boost your resume.. don't. It is incredibly hard work but equally as rewarding.

+a million. I was going to put in my two cents, but this is exactly what I was going to say.

+2 million
I'm in a similar organization abroad, and it has made me a stronger person than I would've ever imagined. It sounds cheesy, but I have learned so much about people and life in general by living and working in my school and small community, trying to get students to learn English, really care about school and their future and pass their tests, and the list could go on. There is really a lot to learn through this experience.

However, as has been said previously, this is NOT a decision to take lightly. I went into my program because I have a passion for teaching and I was thinking about pursuing it as a career; the medicine choice came while I was here. It is definitely not a resume padder. It's two years of your life where you are going to be faced with many challenges and you're going to wonder what the heck you got yourself into. I can't imagine what it would be like doing it if I only semi-cared about what I was doing.

 

[Planes2Doc]

+2 million
I'm in a similar organization abroad, and it has made me a stronger person than I would've ever imagined. It sounds cheesy, but I have learned so much about people and life in general by living and working in my school and small community, trying to get students to learn English, really care about school and their future and pass their tests, and the list could go on. There is really a lot to learn through this experience.

However, as has been said previously, this is NOT a decision to take lightly. I went into my program because I have a passion for teaching and I was thinking about pursuing it as a career; the medicine choice came while I was here. It is definitely not a resume padder. It's two years of your life where you are going to be faced with many challenges and you're going to wonder what the heck you got yourself into. I can't imagine what it would be like doing it if I only semi-cared about what I was doing.

In regards to the statement I bolded, can you imagine doing things you don't care about at all? Well, I'm sure this is taking place a whole lot, especially on SDN, definitely more than people are willing to admit. You see applicant after applicant with laundry-lists of ECs. Given that around 22.5% of people ages 16-24 volunteered in 2011 (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/volun.nr0.htm), I don't think that we can realistically say that the enormous number of premeds (around 80% around matriculation, unrealistically higher than the national average) are doing things because they actually want to. As you said, you can't imagine what it's like to do things you semi-cared about doing, yet a large number of premeds are doing this and many probably not only don't care, but actually hate what they do.

So what does this mean for you and the passion you exhibit for Teach for America? Well, the game that premeds play, especially the SDN type, unfortunately downplay the significance of your commitment to Teach for America. I'm not in anyway saying what you did was significant, on the contrary, I think it's great that you are passionate about it, but the large number of premeds doing similar level activities definitely downplays the significant in the eyes of the ADCOMs. It's always weird when someone on here says that their ECs are actually good because they didn't do them as a checklist item. Well, do you honestly think that anyone would tell an ADCOM that they did an activity as a checklist item? Nope.

I realize that Teach for America is considered to be a considerable commitment in the eyes of normal people. But we're not dealing with normal people, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WE ARE DEALING WITH GUNNER PREMEDS! I'm sure lots of premeds do activities like Teach for America, Peace Corps, City Corps, long-term mission trips, and just about anything else to improve their application. So you think Teach for America sounds like too much of a commitment for premeds? Not at all, given the competition and difficulty of medical school admissions, people will do anything. What do you think about the people who start non-profit organizations, and sometimes have parents invest $10k+ to make it look legitimate? People here are spending thousands of dollars! So no commitment is too much when it comes to medical school admissions. The ADCOMs have seen it all. I bet there are loads of Teach for America applicants during each cycle, and the ADCOMs will not bat an eye when they see it.

So you're fighting an uphill battle here. I'm sure that you're sincere about this, since you've taken the time to write here. But I'm sure that five other Teach for America premeds who don't give two $h1ts about the underserved will write the same exact things you said. Sadly, this is what the crazy admissions game is. I apologize for the pessimism here. I hope that the ADCOMs are able to see your sincerity.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Oh I see... Life happens. As for your friend in Hawaii, I don't think that's too bad of a place to be serving the underserved. 😉

Yeah, my friend definitely did his time in Harlem, Bronx, and Brooklyn though. His girlfriend was also a nurse in the same area. Eventually his girlfriend just got sick of the city and decided to move to Hawaii so he went with her. It took him a little while to find work out there, but eventually he found similar work dealing with emotionally disturbed kids again, the kids of ice addicts, etc...you know the people Dog the Bounty hunter goes after. Anyway he sends me picks of his school which is basically on the shores of Oahu. Pretty sweet place to also be serving an underserved community. His goal is to be a superintendent somewhere one day but he needs a PhD for that.

Two other guys from TFA are pretty much running a charter school together in NYC. All the girls I knew from TFA went to law school for some reason.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

.

 

[Narmerguy]

If they weren't, then we'd see a shift of Ivy League teachers filling up the poor schools and the underserved patients no longer being underserved. But this is life. As unpolitically correct as it may sound, the underserved schools, hospitals, clinics, etc are underserved because they are just less desirable for most people to work in.

I think you misunderstand my point. It'd good for middle-class/affluent highly educated individuals to be exposed to this problem so that they understand the situation better and begin to have some sort of personal experience to always remember. The fact remains that the majority of teachers in poor schools are poor quality, so no harm is being done by shuttling high-achieving students into the classrooms to take a crack at it. In fact, in a report published by the TFA, they realized that the #1 predictor of teacher success was not experience teaching, familiarity with the subject, or even location. It was a combination of leadership and GPA. What they found was that the teachers who had showed determination and a predisposition to "getting things done" were far and away the most successful teachers, regardless of what age group, what location, previous experience, or what subject they were teaching.

But again this is not the greatest strength of TFA. TFA is valuable because even if these students go on to "better things", they will always remember the difficult job teachers face, the difficult situation low-resourced schools face, and the deep need for this issue to be addressed in some fashion. Rather than ignoring this massive plight, we now have a massive group of highly intelligent, highly trained individuals that are aware and interested in this issue and that shifts the discussion. The education discussion is not the same because organizations like TFA exist, and these individuals will now listen, donate, and perhaps vote/take action differently because of their experience with organizations like TFA. Let's not forget that for those two years, these teachers are delivering equal or better education than these students typically receive.

 

[HughMyron]

Do it because you're interested in teaching, not because of a resume boost.

 

[commander1]

I think you misunderstand my point. It'd good for middle-class/affluent highly educated individuals to be exposed to this problem so that they understand the situation better and begin to have some sort of personal experience to always remember. The fact remains that the majority of teachers in poor schools are poor quality, so no harm is being done by shuttling high-achieving students into the classrooms to take a crack at it. In fact, in a report published by the TFA, they realized that the #1 predictor of teacher success was not experience teaching, familiarity with the subject, or even location. It was a combination of leadership and GPA. What they found was that the teachers who had showed determination and a predisposition to "getting things done" were far and away the most successful teachers, regardless of what age group, what location, previous experience, or what subject they were teaching.

But again this is not the greatest strength of TFA. TFA is valuable because even if these students go on to "better things", they will always remember the difficult job teachers face, the difficult situation low-resourced schools face, and the deep need for this issue to be addressed in some fashion. Rather than ignoring this massive plight, we now have a massive group of highly intelligent, highly trained individuals that are aware and interested in this issue and that shifts the discussion. The education discussion is not the same because organizations like TFA exist, and these individuals will now listen, donate, and perhaps vote/take action differently because of their experience with organizations like TFA. Let's not forget that for those two years, these teachers are delivering equal or better education than these students typically receive.

Right. And, two thirds of the corps remains in education. I am proud to say that my fellow corps members are all incredibly impressive and hard working individuals. Let's not forget that TFA is essentially just as difficult to be accepted to as med school. (They don't just accept anyone and they have their ways of determining whether or not you are in it for the right reasons.) Most of these students did exceptionally well in college and proved themselves as dedicated leaders, and most of them did not consider a career in education. Think what you like of TFA, but please don't deny that they are doing a good job of bringing high caliber professionals into the education field. Two thirds of TFA corps members remain in the education field, and the ones that leave it (like me) are impacted with personal experiences and enlightened views that enable them to advocate for change through multiple sectors of society.

 

[phibio]

Right. And, two thirds of the corps remains in education. I am proud to say that my fellow corps members are all incredibly impressive and hard working individuals. Let's not forget that TFA is essentially just as difficult to be accepted to as med school. (They don't just accept anyone and they have their ways of determining whether or not you are in it for the right reasons.) Most of these students did exceptionally well in college and proved themselves as dedicated leaders, and most of them did not consider a career in education. Think what you like of TFA, but please don't deny that they are doing a good job of bringing high caliber professionals into the education field. Two thirds of TFA corps members remain in the education field, and the ones that leave it (like me) are impacted with personal experiences and enlightened views that enable them to advocate for change through multiple sectors of society.

👍 👍 👍 👍
Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Planes2Doc]

But again this is not the greatest strength of TFA. TFA is valuable because even if these students go on to "better things", they will always remember the difficult job teachers face, the difficult situation low-resourced schools face, and the deep need for this issue to be addressed in some fashion. Rather than ignoring this massive plight, we now have a massive group of highly intelligent, highly trained individuals that are aware and interested in this issue and that shifts the discussion. The education discussion is not the same because organizations like TFA exist, and these individuals will now listen, donate, and perhaps vote/take action differently because of their experience with organizations like TFA. Let's not forget that for those two years, these teachers are delivering equal or better education than these students typically receive.

Right. And, two thirds of the corps remains in education. I am proud to say that my fellow corps members are all incredibly impressive and hard working individuals. Let's not forget that TFA is essentially just as difficult to be accepted to as med school. (They don't just accept anyone and they have their ways of determining whether or not you are in it for the right reasons.) Most of these students did exceptionally well in college and proved themselves as dedicated leaders, and most of them did not consider a career in education. Think what you like of TFA, but please don't deny that they are doing a good job of bringing high caliber professionals into the education field. Two thirds of TFA corps members remain in the education field, and the ones that leave it (like me) are impacted with personal experiences and enlightened views that enable them to advocate for change through multiple sectors of society.

These are very well said. Sadly, it looks like having gone through medical school admissions has made me into a pessimist when I look at these things. I realize that TFA definitely does great things not just for the teachers, but also for the students who are then exposed to these teachers. I hope that people keep it up, especially if they have genuinely meaningful experiences from it. But in terms of TFA and medical school admissions, I think that you might perceive certain applicants as trying to get a leg up, like MuAgonist described earlier. Seeing that everyone is scrambling to do community service of some sort definitely seems to downplay the significance of the activities, especially for those that genuinely got things out of it, like commander1. I'm not sure if others share my view, but this is how I've been shaped after finally making it to medical school. 🙁