Teaching only positions at med school?

[Angry Birds]

Do such things exist? Are they available to MD’s or is it only for people with PhDs in biochemistry or that kind of stuff?

If not teaching only then primarily teaching? I am speaking here about med school teaching, not residency program.

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[HemorrhagicShock]

There are absolutely spots in medical schools for full-time MD teachers. There is nowhere near clinical pay, but you can bat in the $150k/year range with benefits, staying attached to the profession and sharing your knowledge.

As you can imagine, however, there aren't a lot of these. They're pretty coveted for the end-of-career physician, and if you're in a central metropolitan area like I am, well, forget it because the connections, clout, and accolades required to get these spots are far beyond that of the average community ER doc.

It's something I looked into as a non-clinical job with benefits where I could still be "a doctor," but there's zero opportunity around me, however, plenty if I'm willing to go more rural to community-tier DO-type schools and teach there.

 

[Angry Birds]

There are absolutely spots in medical schools for full-time MD teachers. There is nowhere near clinical pay, but you can bat in the $150k/year range with benefits, staying attached to the profession and sharing your knowledge.

As you can imagine, however, there aren't a lot of these. They're pretty coveted for the end-of-career physician, and if you're in a central metropolitan area like I am, well, forget it because the connections, clout, and accolades required to get these spots are far beyond that of the average community ER doc.

It's something I looked into as a non-clinical job with benefits where I could still be "a doctor," but there's zero opportunity around me, however, plenty if I'm willing to go more rural to community-tier DO-type schools and teach there.

what is the teaching load and other job reqs for this

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

@Angry Birds These jobs are as individual and unique as the program, institution, and location.

Also, it depends on what skills and desires you have.

Ranging from lecturing regularly, doing small group teaching sessions, clinical teaching/physical exam type stuff, ultrasound teaching in anatomy lab, stuff like that.

Mix and match depending on what they need, your skills, and other factors.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Do such things exist? Are they available to MD’s or is it only for people with PhDs in biochemistry or that kind of stuff?

If not teaching only then primarily teaching? I am speaking here about med school teaching, not residency program.

I'm not personally in this world, but know some people in it.

Yes, most or all med schools will have several full-time positions teaching, supervising curricula, and other assorted medical education things (simulation, etc.) where they actually prefer to hire MDs. That being said, I have gotten the impression that the "teaching med students is my passion" landscape is rather saturated, so these types of jobs will go to either people with tons of medical education experience or people well-connected to those offering the job.

Unless you are fully plugged into the medical education world already, the typical path would be to offer your time for some guest lecturing or med student precepting in your field for a nominal (or zero) amount of money. Then you get in the good graces of the powers that be and you get offered to do an extra lecture or facilitate an extra small group. Then maybe you get asked to sit in or advise on some committee or some new effort. Then a part-time role opens up and you hope to get that. Then in the rare event that one of the old-timers retires or moves and a full-time job opens up, you play up your CV and try to get a full-time role. As in real academia, there are more people gunning for these positions than the number of jobs available. Many of these people have additional education-related degrees and do medical education research in addition to the things I mentioned above.

My perceptions may be colored by the local dynamics here and it's possible this is not the case in the rest of the country. But from where I'm standing, if you want to make this leap, you need to commit to 2-5 years of grinding hard so that you get a local reputation as the medical education guy.

 

[ShockIndex]

For perspective, and speaking about my institution:

M1 Course lectures who teach 1-2 week blocks are getting about 0.1 FTE. Course Directors for large blocks of the curriculum (ie Anatomy).that span 2-3 months get 0.2-0.3 FTE buy down; they typically lecture for 1-2 weeks in addition to the meat of running the course.

The Associate Deans for Pre-Clinical (M1-2) and Clinical Education (M3-4) had 0.5 FTE.

Our Senior Associate Dean for Undergrad Medical Education (ie head of the MD program) was 0.75 admin and 0.25 clinical FTE.

I believe that 0.75 FTE qualifies for full-time benefits, so it’s conceivable that someone could get to “full time” at the Senior Associate Dean levels. My institution has 2 of those in the education sphere - one for undergrad medical education who oversees the MD program and the other graduate who oversees all of the residency programs. There is also a Senior Associate Dean for Research and that person currently has multiple RO1s worth of funding.

 

[CliveStaples]

I would say for most physicians in academics that want to get into didactics, there are opportunities to buy down a portion of one's clinical time. There are almost no physicians at my academic center that are purely didactic - the closest we have to that are academic chairs, deans and vice deans, research heavy physicians that also have time bought down with funded research, etc. But even most of these people still work a very small amount clinically to maintain credibility.

 

[ShockIndex]

I would say for most physicians in academics that want to get into didactics, there are opportunities to buy down a portion of one's clinical time. There are almost no physicians at my academic center that are purely didactic - the closest we have to that are academic chairs, deans and vice deans, research heavy physicians that also have time bought down with funded research, etc. But even most of these people still work a very small amount clinically to maintain credibility.

Research is generally the fastest way to quickly get out of clinical duties, For example, all junior faculty on K-Awards (ie NIH mentored career development awards) are limited to 25% clinical effort (50% for procedural specialists like surgeons). The down side is 1) one must be good at research since less than 10% of these awards are funded, and 2) one must enjoy research which kinda feeds back on #1.

 

[Goro]

Do such things exist? Are they available to MD’s or is it only for people with PhDs in biochemistry or that kind of stuff?

If not teaching only then primarily teaching? I am speaking here about med school teaching, not residency program.

They do at DO schools

 

[Goro]

what is the teaching load and other job reqs for this

Depends upon the school's needs

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I'm not personally in this world, but know some people in it.

Yes, most or all med schools will have several full-time positions teaching, supervising curricula, and other assorted medical education things (simulation, etc.) where they actually prefer to hire MDs. That being said, I have gotten the impression that the "teaching med students is my passion" landscape is rather saturated, so these types of jobs will go to either people with tons of medical education experience or people well-connected to those offering the job.

Unless you are fully plugged into the medical education world already, the typical path would be to offer your time for some guest lecturing or med student precepting in your field for a nominal (or zero) amount of money. Then you get in the good graces of the powers that be and you get offered to do an extra lecture or facilitate an extra small group. Then maybe you get asked to sit in or advise on some committee or some new effort. Then a part-time role opens up and you hope to get that. Then in the rare event that one of the old-timers retires or moves and a full-time job opens up, you play up your CV and try to get a full-time role. As in real academia, there are more people gunning for these positions than the number of jobs available. Many of these people have additional education-related degrees and do medical education research in addition to the things I mentioned above.

My perceptions may be colored by the local dynamics here and it's possible this is not the case in the rest of the country. But from where I'm standing, if you want to make this leap, you need to commit to 2-5 years of grinding hard so that you get a local reputation as the medical education guy.

+1 on all this.

I’ll also note that at big academic centers, the people who want those med ed jobs are really hardcore about med ed. They eat, sleep and breathe it, they have been doing research in it, they have been doing years of ladder climbing where they have been managing curricula and running clerkships and getting an MEd degree etc etc. The chances of an outsider diving into this successfully are pretty low. They will probably have a line of succession picked out for most of these jobs among the existing academic drones.

DO schools are a different story. Not sure how many jobs are there, though.

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

+1 on all this.

I’ll also note that at big academic centers, the people who want those med ed jobs are really hardcore about med ed. They eat, sleep and breathe it, they have been doing research in it, they have been doing years of ladder climbing where they have been managing curricula and running clerkships and getting an MEd degree etc etc. The chances of an outsider diving into this successfully are pretty low. They will probably have a line of succession picked out for most of these jobs among the existing academic drones.

DO schools are a different story. Not sure how many jobs are there, though.

The DO school jobs are the ones to target if you're somebody who isn't that MedED warrior you described in your post.

It's almost like an academic arbitrage if you're an MD. I've been offered several opportunities to teach at local DO schools. The pay isn't anything to call home about, but if you want to teach, and don't want to have to suck off the entire ladder of academia to do so, consider teaching in the DO community realm.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

The DO school jobs are the ones to target if you're somebody who isn't that MedED warrior you described in your post.

It's almost like an academic arbitrage if you're an MD. I've been offered several opportunities to teach at local DO schools. The pay isn't anything to call home about, but if you want to teach, and don't want to have to suck off the entire ladder of academia to do so, consider teaching in the DO community realm.

And it’s worth noting that even at my DO school, all of these deans and teaching physicians etc were still seeing some patients. The dean of the entire medical school still had one clinic day a week.

Also, the majority of physicians teaching at my DO school were in fact local community doctors (and/or med school affiliated doctors) who had full time clinical jobs; the teaching was just a “passion project” on the side. I don’t recall any attending who taught more than one or two blocks, and these were always just in their specialty. So you’re not going to be given the job of teaching the entire 2nd year clinical medicine course. You’re going to get a 1-2 week sliver (or sometimes just a few lectures, or even just one lecture) pertinent to your specialty.

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

And it’s worth noting that even at my DO school, all of these deans and teaching physicians etc were still seeing some patients. The dean of the entire medical school still had one clinic day a week.

Also, the majority of physicians teaching at my DO school were in fact local community doctors (and/or med school affiliated doctors) who had full time clinical jobs; the teaching was just a “passion project” on the side. I don’t recall any attending who taught more than one or two blocks, and these were always just in their specialty. So you’re not going to be given the job of teaching the entire 2nd year clinical medicine course. You’re going to get a 1-2 week sliver (or sometimes just a few lectures, or even just one lecture) pertinent to your specialty.

Truth be told, this was my favorite way of being involved with teaching, and represents the kind of physician that SHOULD be doing the teaching. A physician who is mostly full-time clinical on their own who likes the joy of teaching the next generation the science and art of medicine.

When you get these dedicated hyper academics in the ivory tower after a few short years, you start to wonder if they'd ever be able to survive in the real world, and if not, why the hell are they allowed to teach those who are tasked with taking care of our country's sick.

Mind-blowing if you ask me!

 

[comp1]

I guess it could be an end of career thing, but like others have said, if this job exists, you would be asked to do it or it would naturally evolve from an academic clinical job. It would certainly not be posted anywhere and you would not apply. Also like others have said, this is in reference to the vast majority of MD schools which are non-profit entities. I have no idea how DO or the recent for-profit MD schools operate, but I bet it's a bit differently and I can't see how even they would prefer a non-practicing physician. Honestly though, non-clinical work as a physician just is not worth the effort the vast majority of the time. It's searching for a unicorn. Spend that time finding clinical work that fulfills you.

 

[Angry Birds]

This has been helpful. I should clarify that I’m not looking to quit clinical medicine. But yeah it would be great to decrease the shift load considerably.