Temple vs. Western

[prepod2011]

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Hey everybody, I wanted to get some opinions about which school I should pick. I was accepted to western and then also to temple. I have not interviewed anywhere else.

I really like western's curriculum and their systems-based approach whereas temple is more of the traditional curriculum. I also have family in the north-east which would be nice also. I have this sense that Western is doing big things and in a couple years will be a huge player in the podiatry world, they are doing many things differently and I know very well that things that start in california end up making its way eastward. Thats a very broad statement I know but western really captures my attention and i have heard great things about it.

Temple on the other hand has huge facilities, they are very well recognized and established and have a solid history creating great DPMs since the early 70's (no argument about that), They also own and operate multiple hospitals in which their students practice in. You could even get your residency in Philly at Temple's hospital and that goes to show how well established they are. The thought of residency concerns me when it comes to Western because the school is still in its infancy and its also in a small town. Philadelphia is considered a medical meca since there are so many medical, dental, pharm schools ext. there thus the chances of exposure to patients is much greater and that just comes along with going to school in a big city.

Still Western intrigues me but I dont want to pick the wrong school, to take a chance with the newer school when I could have gone to the more established one, or go to the older school (temple) and have a regrets about not going to western. Does anybody have any insight into this? I feel that this could help others wondering the same thing about choosing Western over the other "more established" pod schools like New York, and Ohio for example.

 

[I pod]

Western! Western I believe is one of the more selective schools and has a strong focus on academics so that it can achieve 100's on the boards. The dean from western is very well known amongst the podiatry community, which is reassuring. Temple may give you a load of scholarship money and is already accredited and established, nonetheless if i were you I would choose western.

 

[prepod2011]

Thanks I pod, anybody else have a take on this?

 

[TimmyT]

WesternU is in Pomona, Ca but it lies in the Greater Los Angeles area which consists of 12-15 million people. Pomona itself has about 150k people (I don't consider that a small town). I'm pretty sure Los Angeles is bigger than Philadelphia. But I bet their phili cheese steaks are amazing.

 

[shenanigans327]

Western! Western I believe is one of the more selective schools and has a strong focus on academics so that it can achieve 100's on the boards. The dean from western is very well known amongst the podiatry community, which is reassuring. Temple may give you a load of scholarship money and is already accredited and established, nonetheless if i were you I would choose western.

you've been tootin' the Western horn on here alot the past few days....🙄

OP, any school will prepare you for residency. It's ultimately up to you as a student, each school has its' smart people and the people that you wonder how they were accepted in the first place...Pick where you could see yourself living for the next few years (along with the cheapest COL/tuition) Here was a past thread with a perspective from Western though, it looks like a great program!

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=813466

 

[prepod2011]

WesternU is in Pomona, Ca but it lies in the Greater Los Angeles area which consists of 12-15 million people. Pomona itself has about 150k people (I don't consider that a small town). I'm pretty sure Los Angeles is bigger than Philadelphia. But I bet their phili cheese steaks are amazing.

Thanks for telling me this about Pomona, but I guess I just percieved it to be much smaller than Philly but you are right. I am a vegetarian so I wont have to worry about the philly cheese steaks too much . Thats 2 for Western, anybody for Temple or have anything good to say about it in comparison to Western?

 

[iVTECdailyy]

Thanks for telling me this about Pomona, but I guess I just percieved it to be much smaller than Philly but you are right. I am a vegetarian so I wont have to worry about the philly cheese steaks too much . Thats 2 for Western, anybody for Temple or have anything good to say about it in comparison to Western?

No clue about Western but philly is an awesome place to be. All college kids, recent college grads, and professional school kids. 100s of bars and restaurants within walking distance. beautiful / historical city. I'm from new york, a city that hates philly, and even I think philly is one of the best places for a young person to live.

But I don't know anything about Western so its clearly a one-sided view point.

 

[347932]

New York hates Philly??!! Do tell...

 

[prepod2011]

Hey guys, please stay on topic, I don't really care about new york hating philly. Lets get some constructive analysis about the two schools in terms of how well they differ academically, Western's problem-based curriculum setting students up for 3rd and 4th year from the very beginning or Temples more traditional curriculum (which has obviously worked given the track record), and any other constructive criticism anybody may have. Thanks.

 

[amaprez]

Hey guys, please stay on topic, I don't really care about new york hating philly. Lets get some constructive analysis about the two schools in terms of how well they differ academically, Western's problem-based curriculum setting students up for 3rd and 4th year from the very beginning or Temples more traditional curriculum (which has obviously worked given the track record), and any other constructive criticism anybody may have. Thanks.

Be careful about the whole PBL fascination. It's just one class (a few hours a week) where you'll meet once a week to discuss cases. It's nice to have. But most schools have some type of case-discussions in one way or another in your first two years. It certainly make the school a 'PBL curriculum' school. It shouldn't be THE reason you pick one school over another. Keep in mind you'll be taking all the rest of your classes in a big lecture hall like everyone else.

A true PBL curriculum would be 100% absent of lecture-based education and rely completely on self-learning via cases. These are usually optional 'tracks' and I think there are a few handful of allopathic med schools in the country that offer complete PBL tracks. To my knowledge no podiatry schools does so.

 

[iVTECdailyy]

Hey guys, please stay on topic, I don't really care about new york hating philly. Lets get some constructive analysis about the two schools in terms of how well they differ academically, Western's problem-based curriculum setting students up for 3rd and 4th year from the very beginning or Temples more traditional curriculum (which has obviously worked given the track record), and any other constructive criticism anybody may have. Thanks.

If you search this forum, you will find the answer to "this school vs that school" very quickly. The general view to choosing a school is based on where you see yourself living for at least the next four years of your life. That is why i wrote about philadelphia as a city. All of the schools are basically the same.

 

[TimmyT]

Be careful about the whole PBL fascination. It's just one class (a few hours a week) where you'll meet once a week to discuss cases. It's nice to have. But most schools have some type of case-discussions in one way or another in your first two years. It certainly make the school a 'PBL curriculum' school. It shouldn't be THE reason you pick one school over another. Keep in mind you'll be taking all the rest of your classes in a big lecture hall like everyone else.

A true PBL curriculum would be 100% absent of lecture-based education and rely completely on self-learning via cases. These are usually optional 'tracks' and I think there are a few handful of allopathic med schools in the country that offer complete PBL tracks. To my knowledge no podiatry schools does so.

Actually, Western’s PBL is just more than once a week for several hours. For the entire second year, all our system base classes and PMP (Podiatric medical principles) are PBL. The first year is mainly lectures with some courses being PBL. The way the PBL works here is that they give us a primer to read and several lectures (workshops) before we meet in our small group. Each small group has 2 POD students and 6 DO’s. There are groups that don’t have any pods because there are more of them and less of us. But in each small group session we have to work-up the cases that they present to us. There is faculty walking around if we have any questions. Then the next day we go into our large group lecture where they go over they cases we went through the day before. The reason why they do this is to make sure we get all the major concepts.

 

[darazon]

That is correct. Western is PBL for most of 2nd year and for a large part of 1st year. It prepares you extremely well for 3rd and 4th year. I'm in IM currently and I have the DO students asking me the questions regarding medical management of the patients.

The only problem with that is I have done my fair share of rectal exams already!!

 

[Ferocity]

That is correct. Western is PBL for most of 2nd year and for a large part of 1st year. It prepares you extremely well for 3rd and 4th year. I'm in IM currently and I have the DO students asking me the questions regarding medical management of the patients.

The only problem with that is I have done my fair share of rectal exams already!!

Rectal exams are the best kind of exams!

 

[Sig Savant]

Logical progression - SAT -> MCAT -> APMLE 1 -> DRE ->APMLE 2

I think Western is on the rise as a pod school. I think Temple is on a down slope now. However, podiatry is its own school so that students can concentrate on podiatry for their entire education - I sit in my classes, like pathology, and while learning pathology concerning the entire body, I really concentrate on podiatry specific items. When learning alongside DO students, are we getting that podiatry specific education, or are we being trained to be DO's that take one class (PMP) that then separates us from them? Do you want to be a DO or a podiatrist?

The profession constantly pushes for parity with MD/DO, just like they push for everyone to be a surgeon. I'm here to tell you that you should be proud of your DPM degree. Thus, as long as you get an intensive podiatric training at Western, and you are also taught alongside DO's, then that is good. I just don't understand where all of the podiatry lectures come from. I sit in many classes just about podiatry in my first, second and third year - Lower extrem anatomy (8 credits), Pod surg 1, pod surg 2, functional ortho 1, 2 and 3, biomechanics, pod medicine 1 and 2, podopeds 1 and 2, pod radiology, sports medicine, traumatology - are these all classes taught at western, or are all of these classes combined into a single course called PMP?

 

[TimmyT]

We have PMP 8 hours a week. A lot of our learning comes from the primer and the cases that we do. We have a large group lecture on summarizing the primer and cases. For every case, we have to know the clinical presentation, pathology, radiology, risk factors, diagnostic tests, conservative treatment, surgical treatment, outcomes. We constantly reminded on what anatomic structures are involved, biomechanics, and radiology for every case.

 

[darazon]

Rectal exams are the best kind of exams!

Oh ya, especially the first I I had to do. I was called for an admit in the ER with the chief complaint of "explosive diarrhea." I was warned to not stand in the "line of fire!"

 

[darazon]

are these all classes taught at western, or are all of these classes combined into a single course called PMP?

Yes, they are all combined into one class that runs all year for 2 years. All the topics you listed are combined and taught in a PBL format with small groups.

 

[malleolusman]

To the OP:

I am graduating from Temple this year. It is indeed on a downward slope. They have gotten rid of 2-3 very important members of faculty who spent a great deal of time teaching students and brought very interesting cases to clinic. Temple is a lot of hype, a lot of money, a tremendous amount of nepotism, and students must fight for their education. Don't get me wrong -- the DPMs they are producing are very bright; the class I'm in is extremely competitive, but the school lacks what I refer to as an active learning environment. The weaker students who are left behind, Temple nudges them along slowly -- even if they aren't fit to continue. Money always talks.

My understanding is that Dr. Harkless is first and foremost an educator, then a podiatrist and that distinction makes all the difference in the world. If you visit any school, be wary of the students who speaks of the all the pros, and none of the cons. They are being dishonest.

Pros: Med school faculty teaching all of the classes. 1st and 2nd years are very well organized. Great wound-care clinic and surgery clinics. Lots of interesting/diverse pathology since we are located in the hood. 1 or 2 dedicated faculty members.

Temple Cons: Lack of teaching/PBL in 3rd and 4th years. Unorganized 3rd and 4th years. The school is not receptive to change, or improvement.

At this point, I recommend going to Western. I can't comment on any of the other schools.

 

[347932]

To the OP:

I am graduating from Temple this year. It is indeed on a downward slope. They have gotten rid of 2-3 very important members of faculty who spent a great deal of time teaching students and brought very interesting cases to clinic. Temple is a lot of hype, a lot of money, a tremendous amount of nepotism, and students must fight for their education...

Being a full time educator is not an easy job. There are few rewards, and it is no surprise that TUSPM can't hold on to the best and brightest. Too much politics, and not enough $$. That is the sacrifice that one makes in Academia, and many use it as a stepping stone rather then firm ground. Fight for their education? I don't understand this comment. Can you explain, please?

My understanding is that Dr. Harkless is first and foremost an educator, then a podiatrist and that distinction makes all the difference in the world...

I hate to seem like an iconclast, but Larry is a professional schoomzer. Yes, he did a lot for our profession, but he did it with a sharp wit and the wallet of many "friends". As I said in another thread somewhere, not everyone is what they seem.

You can't recommend something you never experienced imo. If you are going to be a Temple graduate, how can you recommend a curriculum you've never encountered? I too graduated from TUSPM, and there were MANY issues when I was there, but am still a proud Alum and give back when I can. Your education is up to YOU, despite where you go to get it.

 

[Saint419]

You can't recommend something you never experienced imo. If you are going to be a Temple graduate, how can you recommend a curriculum you've never encountered? I too graduated from TUSPM, and there were MANY issues when I was there, but am still a proud Alum and give back when I can. Your education is up to YOU, despite where you go to get it.

Have anything factual that people on here can see to back this claim up? You usually offer professional and helpful insight into the profession on these forums so I find it a little surprising/alarming that you would attack somebody with a reputation like Dr. Harkless from an anonymous name here on SDN.

 

[347932]

Have anything factual that people on here can see to back this claim up? You usually offer professional and helpful insight into the profession on these forums so I find it a little surprising/alarming that you would attack somebody with a reputation like Dr. Harkless from an anonymous name here on SDN.

Since you asked, when I was an extern at his program in SA he told no less than 15 of us in my class that if we ranked the program #1 at the time "there is no reason why you shouldn't match with us". He told this to over 50 students over the year from the various schools. Some of us did our Oral surgery boards together and we joked about it over dinner. With 8 spots, I found it alarming that he would cherry pick like that and raise a students' hopes. Some of us who really wanted that program and were told by him to rank us #1 put a lot of our eggs in that basket only to be devastated when we realized we were all made the same empty promise. We trusted him and he betrayed that trust. I believe that if you ask around enough, others will tell you similar stories of this happening at his old program in SA.

Over the years, I've spoken with him at times at conferences we were both at. "Give me your card. We can always use fresh minds at our residency/school. Send me an e-mail with your credentials". These exchanges were never provoked and I never asked. I sent e-mails every time. NEVER once did he respond. How dumb am I for letting him dupe me twice, huh?

I'm not attacking anyone. I'm offering my experiences in practice and life. His reputation amongst those of us who have different experiences with him are FAR different than his celebrity status with students. There is a class of people known as "Iconoclasts" for a reason. Icons are generally just as much illusion as they are substance. Self created or otherwise.

I am no different than who I seem on these forums. I think if you asked PADPM about my personal interaction with him, he'd tell you I was a little brash, sometimes impulsive, but mostly thoughtful and happy about life in general. He would also tell you that I think about things and pick them apart just a little too much. I wear my heart on my sleeve, but have become a little cynical because of some of the experiences I've had over the years. I will always help and be open with it, until I get burned. Then it's game over.