Thanks for the feedback

[movingtopastures]

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So I’m going to edit most of my posts as I’m concerned that someone may recognise me from these. I appreciate all the responses and feedback

 

[Mass Effect]

I'm confused. Why did you cancel the patient's appointment? Did you just not want to see the patient? How did your PD find out you lied, did you admit it or was it discovered some other way? What were the results of the investigation? Was the result just that you did this and lied or was there a bigger issue that came out during the investigation? When you did the distressed doc eval, was that at a physician health program and if so, what were their recommendations?

All of these things will factor in to your chances for another residency.

 

[deleted480308]

Based on what you say, you need to stop the belief that your issue was caused by a poor residency choice. You lied. You made a decision consistent with a character flaw in you. You need to face that and address it. Specialty choice doesn’t make you a liar.

Regardless of application likelihood, you need to address your character for to handle your trajectory as a human

 

[hallowmann]

Wait, so you canceled a patient appointment, then the patient complained, apparently that was enough for the PD to talk to you about it, at which point you lied and said you called the patient and he wanted you to cancel the appointment. You then ended up feeling wracked with guilt that you broke down admitting your lie. The PD then advised that you should resign in order to avoid the consequences of the investigation.

Now obviously you shouldn't have lied, because at worst you would have gotten a slap on the wrist for canceling the appointment in error. That said, short of this patient being a VIP, I don't completely get being non-renewed or asked to resign without more to the story. Was there a bad outcome? Why would they be "investigating" anything? Appointments get mixed up or accidentally canceled all the time. There's usually not a big inquiry afterwards. I feel like there's probably more to this story.

You don't need to tell us more details, but you need to be able to put together what happened in a clear way that it could be easily explained to other programs without them having a lot of questions about what you're leaving out.

 

[Giovanotto]

Wait, so you canceled a patient appointment, then the patient complained, apparently that was enough for the PD to talk to you about it, at which point you lied and said you called the patient and he wanted you to cancel the appointment. You then ended up feeling racked with guilt that you broke down admitting your lie. The PD then advised that you should resign in order to avoid the consequences of the investigation.

Now obviously you shouldn't have lied, because at worst you would have gotten a slap on the wrist for canceling the appointment in error. That said, short of this patient being a VIP, I don't completely get being non-renewed or asked to resign without more to the story. Was there a bad outcome? Why would they be "investigating" anything? Appointments get mixed up or accidentally canceled all the time. There's usually not a big inquiry afterwards. I feel like there's probably more to this story.

You don't need to tell us more details, but you need to be able to put together what happened in a clear way that it could be easily explained to other programs without their a lot of questions about what you're leaving out.

This. The story doesn't quite add up to being forced to resign.

 

[hamstergang]

As interesting as this thread direction may be, I don't know that it helps answer OP's question. Sure, understanding properly what went wrong and fixing it will be important for OP in the future, but as for getting another residency what matters more is what the PD will actually say about OP leaving and what OP will say about it too.

I imagine getting another psych residency won't happen -- they'd wonder why you couldn't have just stayed. Changing specialties helps, though they'll still know something happened since you resigned partway through the year instead of just finishing it out before switching. So I think the messaging is going to play a huge role.

 

[rokshana]

Thanks for helping to get the thread back on track. Regarding my PD writing my LOR, my mentor who holds a significant position in the program told me that they will make sure the PD writes me a good letter, given I went for the distressed physician assessment. This gives me some hope that my letter from my PD will be positive.

In this thread I’m more looking for others who have reapplied or matched again after something like this occurs and peoples opinions about my chances for reapplying.

No one can make the pd write a strong letter for you if they don’t feel they can...and you pd has already said that s/he could not...so at best you get is probably a neutral letter...but any program will call him and talk to them...and usually a question they can and will ask is would you re hire him? The answer of no will have a great effect.

Best option is to just try and apply to another specialty like fm that may be more forgiving.

 

[Dave1980]

Take away point: Once you lied you must stick to the lie.

 

[GoSpursGo]

that is true but apparently given that I resigned my PD is going to write me a good LOR as this was negotiated by my mentor on my behalf. I still have a good relationship with my PD which helps in this process.

I mean, I hope for your sake that's true, but your mentor can't "make sure" the PD writes anything--ultimately that decision comes down to the PD and what he thinks he can honestly say.

As others have said, basically everything rests on what is actually in the letter--if it's good you probably have a shot at less competitive specialties and programs, and if it's poor or in any way suggests that he remains concerned about your professionalism you're likely sunk. Unless your PD is willing to share the contents of the letter with you, you'll just need to apply next year and hope for the best. You could also see if there are any PGY-2 psych spots available--unlikely that you'd be able to get one, but if you're sitting on your hands you might as well.

 

[AdmiralChz]

So if the letter is good does anyone think internal med programs could be an option or is it FM programs only?

Just on the surface - US-IMG with low Step 1 and a red flag in a (coerced) residency resignation... it could be tough to switch into IM. How was your performance on in-training assessments/exams? Other than this did you have satisfactory evaluations?

Without knowing much the realistic guess is your best shots are lower-tier, rural/community IM programs and FM. I think you basically have to dual-apply to both if you want a strong chance of matching. You’ll also need to prove you won’t do something like this again going forward.

 

[thumbz]

Something no one has touched on yet - what are you going to say when this comes up in an interview? Assuming you get some interviews, you will 100% be asked why you resigned from your previous program.

If you lie, even if they don't find out, then you've proven yourself a liar x2 and honestly my suspicion is the same thing will happen again. And if they do find out (by talking to your current PD who won't lie on your behalf) then you'll be sunk anyways.

If you don't lie and tell the truth, I can't imagine even the most malignant sweatshop would want to match you to their program.

I hate to say it but this seems like a lose-lose scenerio.

 

[movingtopastures]

Something no one has touched on yet - what are you going to say when this comes up in an interview? Assuming you get some interviews, you will 100% be asked why you resigned from your previous program.

If you lie, even if they don't find out, then you've proven yourself a liar x2 and honestly my suspicion is the same thing will happen again. And if they do find out (by talking to your current PD who won't lie on your behalf) then you'll be sunk anyways.

If you don't lie and tell the truth, I can't imagine even the most malignant sweatshop would want to match you to their program.

I hate to say it but this seems like a lose-lose scenerio.

I think first of all im going to outline what happened in my personal statement, I’m going to tell them the truth about making the mistake and also tell them honestly that tell them that I wasn’t really happy at the program and it wasn’t a good fit for me. Considering lying got me into this predicament that’s not something I’m going to do again.

I think my only saving grace is that academically never had any issues and always did really well in residency and presented posters and had written up case reports, but who knows how beneficial this will be for me.

 

[Piebaldi]

So in November 2019 I ended up resigning from my psychiatry residency program after approximately 1.5 years. Never had any problems academically in the residency. This was due to the fact I made a mistake when calling a patient and cancelled their appointment and to make things worse I lied to my PD when he asked me about it. After this there was an investigation into this and my PD very kindly allowed me to resign rather than be terminated. I was really appreciative of my PD allowing me to do this, given what had transpired. My PD has been very supportive on me in this process, however he has stated that for him to write a good LOR he would have to know that something like this would not happen again at another residency.

Other attending's in the program have stated that they will support me applying again and would write me letters. My Mentor in the program actually thinks that I would be able to match into another residency program such as Internal Med or Neuro. Upon my Mentors advice I actually went for a distressed physician assessment which actually turned out to be really enlightening for me. They pointed out that they believe that my issue in the residency was probably brought on by a poor fit with the program and exacerbated by my poor choice of specialty. To give some context Psych was never my first choice of mine but I ended up doing it for personal reasons.

Regarding my application to residency, Im a US-IMG, low step 1, average step 2 and 3. No other red flags besides resigning from residency.

So basically I wanted to get some advice from individuals who may have some more experience in this than myself. Im considering reapplying for residency for next year however I believe that my chances for a career in clinical medicine are all but over however my mentor and some attending think otherwise. Has anyone successfully matched again after something like this occurring to them or am I living in Fantasy land. Thank-you in advance for your feedback.

Why did you cancel the patient's appointment? Was there an issue or you just didn't want to see the patient/leave early? If you did this because you just wanted to leave early then it's a major red flag and a serious issue for multiple reasons. Unprofessionalism, potentially hurting the patient particularly a Psychiatric patient, etc etc. Given that you are an IMG,with low step 1, and now resigned in lieu of being fired, for a professionalism issue - i think the chances are low at best.
How did PD find out you lied?

 

[Piebaldi]

Wait, so you canceled a patient appointment, then the patient complained, apparently that was enough for the PD to talk to you about it, at which point you lied and said you called the patient and he wanted you to cancel the appointment. You then ended up feeling wracked with guilt that you broke down admitting your lie. The PD then advised that you should resign in order to avoid the consequences of the investigation.

Now obviously you shouldn't have lied, because at worst you would have gotten a slap on the wrist for canceling the appointment in error. That said, short of this patient being a VIP, I don't completely get being non-renewed or asked to resign without more to the story. Was there a bad outcome? Why would they be "investigating" anything? Appointments get mixed up or accidentally canceled all the time. There's usually not a big inquiry afterwards. I feel like there's probably more to this story.

You don't need to tell us more details, but you need to be able to put together what happened in a clear way that it could be easily explained to other programs without them having a lot of questions about what you're leaving out.

It seems that perhaps he cancelled the appointment without telling the patient maybe, and then when the patient complained he lied to PD againwhen questioned. Then he admitted it. If that's what happened, then there is a serious issue here. I don't know of anyone who purposefully cancelled a patient's appointment wihtout informing the patient. That's just plain ridiculous. The patient will obviously come to the appointment. He was unprofessional and committed the unprofessional behavior half-way! By not only cancelling the appt but by also not letting the patient know.

 

[Piebaldi]

So if the letter is good does anyone think internal med programs could be an option or is it FM programs only?

It's not the residency type that's the issue at hand - it's what happened. Lying like this is a big big red flag. You had a choice and you made many mistakes with numerous lapses in judgement - you cancelled the patinet's appt, which could have had terrible results. What if the patient was suicidal? What if their meds had run out? Then you lied to the PD about this and said the opposite - I confirmed. Really? It's also silly - of course the patient woudl say oh someone called me to cancel the appt. It's so simple to find out!

 

[Piebaldi]

I think first of all im going to outline what happened in my personal statement, I’m going to tell them the truth about making the mistake and also tell them honestly that tell them that I wasn’t really happy at the program and it wasn’t a good fit for me. Considering lying got me into this predicament that’s not something I’m going to do again.

I think my only saving grace is that academically never had any issues and always did really well in residency and presented posters and had written up case reports, but who knows how beneficial this will be for me.

That in itself is a lie. It doens't matter if the program is a good fit or not. You LIED - you can lie in a "good fit" or a "bad fit" program. The "fitness" of hte program has not relevance.

 

[hamstergang]

Something no one has touched on yet - what are you going to say when this comes up in an interview?

I snuck it in!

as for getting another residency what matters more is what the PD will actually say about OP leaving and what OP will say about it too.

To those still confused, what happened was laid out in post #9:

Yep so I called and cancelled the patient's appointment the day before their scheduled appointment. I thought things were all ok as the patient never showed. 3 weeks went bye then PD spoke to me. I lied to the PD and told him I called the patient to remind him of his appointment.

 

[Piebaldi]

This is very true. Whether it was a good or bad program I still lied, that’s on me. The distressed program gave me insights into the fact that I wasn’t happy at the program and me cancelling the patient was as reaction to being disillusioned with my life at the time. This still doesn’t account for my actions, but it puts what I did into context rather than I was just a bad resident who did this.

I'm sorry but that's absurd. You did this because you didn't want to see the patient and thought you could get away with it. And hwne you had the chance to come clean to the PD you chose to lie again. You did this. Has nothing to do with being unhappy with the program. Most residents at some point don't want to see more patients for countless reasons - tired, burnt out, annoyed, stressed, too much work, whatever. It's not an excuse.

 

[movingtopastures]

I'm sorry but that's absurd. You did this because you didn't want to see the patient and thought you could get away with it. And hwne you had the chance to come clean to the PD you chose to lie again. You did this. Has nothing to do with being unhappy with the program. Most residents at some point don't want to see more patients for countless reasons - tired, burnt out, annoyed, stressed, too much work, whatever. It's not an excuse.

we can agree to disagree then. Being unhappy somewhere definitely affects how you perform at work and how you are as a person. Again this is not an excuse for what I did, it’s just context as nothing happens in a vacuum

 

[Piebaldi]

we can agree to disagree then. Being unhappy somewhere definitely affects how you perform at work and how you are as a person. Again this is not an excuse for what I did, it’s just context as nothing happens in a vacuum

I disagree. It's as if you say oh you didn't like a patient or a patient annoyed you so you wont give them the same care as the paitnet that you like. residency is fraught with things you don't want to do - I won't even start with my experience. you WILL be unhappy at one point or another in any residency, program, state, specialty, etc etc at some point. if happiness at your residency determines how you will act then you definitely should not match anywhere else. there is no doubt you will be unhappy again - so you'll do the same thing again and say oh i'm unhappy. please. as an adult and a physician you will find yourself unhappy repeatedly - don't like being on call on holidays? oh i'll call in sick. don't like the week of your vacation? oh i'll make up something to change it. find a patient annoying? this and that. that is an excuse. sadly the real truth is that you did it because you thought u'd get away with it. i know plenty of unhappy residents myself included when i was one. i don't know a single one of them who has cancelled a patient's appt and then lied about it.

 

[Goro]

No one can make the pd write a strong letter for you if they don’t feel they can...and you pd has already said that s/he could not...so at best you get is probably a neutral letter...but any program will call him and talk to them...and usually a question they can and will ask is would you re hire him? The answer of no will have a great effect.

Best option is to just try and apply to another specialty like fm that may be more forgiving.

Indeed. Damnation by faint praise is a real thing.

 

[GoSpursGo]

So if the letter is good does anyone think internal med programs could be an option or is it FM programs only?

You just need to apply broadly and hope for the best. For all the reasons outlined above, there are going to be a number of programs that are totally turned off by your history, so you need to cast a wide net in the hopes that you'll find one that buys that you've learned from this experience. May also depend on whether one specialty or the other is easier for you to get letters for.

 

[dpmd]

Again as mentioned we can agree to disagree on this. I would prefer to get this thread back to my chances rematching rather than an internet autopsy of my residency

I understand that you just want to move on from what happened, but I think there is validity to the concern that saying it was bad fit and unhappiness that led you to go down the path you did will make programs concerned that it will just happen again. That is the same concern your current PD has about writing a letter (which will also affect your chances of matching). If it was that you were suffering from a mental illness that is now being treated that would be different (though would then have the issues that come with having a mental health diagnosis in medicine). I don't know that it will be impossible for you to match and I think you probably have to try, but I would reflect on things more and see if you can come up with a different way to frame things if you get lucky enough to get interviews.

 

[rokshana]

Take away point: Once you lied you must stick to the lie.

Bigger point...don’t lie...

 

[rokshana]

I think first of all im going to outline what happened in my personal statement, I’m going to tell them the truth about making the mistake and also tell them honestly that tell them that I wasn’t really happy at the program and it wasn’t a good fit for me. Considering lying got me into this predicament that’s not something I’m going to do again.

I think my only saving grace is that academically never had any issues and always did really well in residency and presented posters and had written up case reports, but who knows how beneficial this will be for me.

You lied...that throws all the rest of those things out the window...you can have the best cv in the world, but you are know as a liar, it doesn’t matter...saying you and the program weren’t a good fit doesn’t absolve you of lying.

It has been said many,many,many times on SDN...don’t...you can screw up royally and are truthful about it and take ownership , yes may get into trouble, but you won’t get fired...lie and all bets are off.

The coverup is always worse then the actual act.

 

[doctorKAT]

So in November 2019 I ended up resigning from my psychiatry residency program after approximately 1.5 years. Never had any problems academically in the residency. This was due to the fact I made a mistake when calling a patient and cancelled their appointment and to make things worse I lied to my PD when he asked me about it. After this there was an investigation into this and my PD very kindly allowed me to resign rather than be terminated. I was really appreciative of my PD allowing me to do this, given what had transpired. My PD has been very supportive on me in this process, however he has stated that for him to write a good LOR he would have to know that something like this would not happen again at another residency.

Other attending's in the program have stated that they will support me applying again and would write me letters. My Mentor in the program actually thinks that I would be able to match into another residency program such as Internal Med or Neuro. Upon my Mentors advice I actually went for a distressed physician assessment which actually turned out to be really enlightening for me. They pointed out that they believe that my issue in the residency was probably brought on by a poor fit with the program and exacerbated by my poor choice of specialty. To give some context Psych was never my first choice of mine but I ended up doing it for personal reasons.

Regarding my application to residency, Im a US-IMG, low step 1, average step 2 and 3. No other red flags besides resigning from residency.

So basically I wanted to get some advice from individuals who may have some more experience in this than myself. Im considering reapplying for residency for next year however I believe that my chances for a career in clinical medicine are all but over however my mentor and some attending think otherwise. Has anyone successfully matched again after something like this occurring to them or am I living in Fantasy land. Thank-you in advance for your feedback.

I understand your situation. I ended up resigning from residency too, although for a different reason. At that time I was devastated to have all those years of hard work vanish. So. I understand what you are going through. I ended up re applying again. I have been on a couple of interviews and surprisingly some/most interviewers did not ask why I resign or even mention it. Perhaps they didn't read my app? Anyways, of course I don't know the outcome yet but am hoping for the best. My advice to you is dont give up, try to put a positive spin on what happened, find ways to make your app stand out and be creative. and learn from your mistakes. AND don't listen to the negative ppl here.

 

[Piebaldi]

The issue here is that he didn't just quit - he resigned in lieu of being fired which is different. I quit my PGY-2 program bc i transferred, and there was no negative action so there were no issues with transferring to a different specialty. In this person's case, the PD won't write him a letter AND i'm sure it will be noted that he resigned in lieu of firing so it's not just "resigning." Big difference. Plenty of people switch programs bc they don;t like the specialty, have to move for family reasons, etc. Typically no biggie there. But if a resident is essentially fired that's plenty different.

I understand your situation. I ended up resigning from residency too, although for a different reason. At that time I was devastated to have all those years of hard work vanish. So. I understand what you are going through. I ended up re applying again. I have been on a couple of interviews and surprisingly some/most interviewers did not ask why I resign or even mention it. Perhaps they didn't read my app? Anyways, of course I don't know the outcome yet but am hoping for the best. My advice to you is dont give up, try to put a positive spin on what happened, find ways to make your app stand out and be creative. and learn from your mistakes. AND don't listen to the negative ppl here.

 

[rokshana]

... AND don't listen to the negative ppl here.

Sure don’t listen to those with realistic POVs....listen to those Pollyannas that want to blow glitter smoke up your a..

Smh ...no better than the person that “researched” their symptoms on the internet and know what you need to do for them...

 

[doctorKAT]

The issue here is that he didn't just quit - he resigned in lieu of being fired which is different. I quit my PGY-2 program bc i transferred, and there was no negative action so there were no issues with transferring to a different specialty. In this person's case, the PD won't write him a letter AND i'm sure it will be noted that he resigned in lieu of firing so it's not just "resigning." Big difference. Plenty of people switch programs bc they don;t like the specialty, have to move for family reasons, etc. Typically no biggie there. But if a resident is essentially fired that's plenty different.

There is basically no difference in resigning in lieu of getting fired to resigning to transfer. the bottom line is you quitted and programs will assume you "did something wrong ". So if you were able to get in another residency, I am sure the OP has a chance as well. And it seems like his PD will write him a positive lor.

 

[hallowmann]

There was a resident at our program that struggled with a certain rotation that was integral to completing residency and also had issues with lying when it came to completing the patient work (would say they did something when they didn't). That person got a neutral letter from the PD and managed to find a program with an open spot, and they're presumably doing OK there. Its possible, but you have to be completely flexible, and there is a very strong possibility that you find nothing. The best you can do is put yourself out there.

I personally would not bring up the whole story in your personal statement, but I would mention the issues with program, or if they have a separate spot for explaining gaps in training. You should also have a plan for how you're going to explain this if/when it comes up in interviews.

OP, I agree that what you did was stupid and generally speaking a big problem. People make mistakes though. I hope you recognize the weak position residents are in and the importance of communicating with patients and not lying about patient care. Don't do it again. Good luck.

 

[Piebaldi]

There is basically no difference in resigning in lieu of getting fired to resigning to transfer. the bottom line is you quitted and programs will assume you "did something wrong ". So if you were able to get in another residency, I am sure the OP has a chance as well. And it seems like his PD will write him a positive lor.

Umm no. I was an excellent application and didn't have lying or any type of issue - either professionalism or academics related. OP has both. And PD already said per his statement that he/she won't write OP a good letter.

 

[doctorKAT]

Good for you. Perhaps it would be helpful to OP if you elaborate on why how your application was so strong. what specialty are you in now? what did you resign from?

 

[movingtopastures]

So Im only posting this as an update to what has previously transpired in this thread and an update to what has happened in my life.

After what transpired last year, I had a lot of soul searching to do. On the recommendation of a mentor and faculty member at my program I actually went to a physician health program. I don’t want to get into the weeds regarding this but this physician health program was one of the best things that has ever happened to me. This specific PHP was not cheap nor did they try and diagnose me with something, rather this was a psychodynamically focused day treatment program over 3 weeks with a group of other physicians which were also having problems in their environment. I grew a lot as a person and physician in the 3 weeks program and I leant on the other physicians at the program to help me with my blind spots and my weaknesses in my life and in residency. I’m proud to say that after I completed the 3 weeks of this program my treatment coordinator talked to my previous PD directly. My treatment coordinator was basically able to advocate on my behalf based on my progress he had witnessed in the program and his 20 year’s experience treating disruptive physicians and residents. My PD has informed me that I will be getting a positive letter of recommendation given he better has an understanding of the difficulties I was having during residency. I couldn’t be happier about this and I’m extremely grateful for this second chance.

Now as many of you clearly pointed out there was more going on to my story and more to explain. As many threads on SDN are entitled, I quit residency/ I resigned/ I didn’t do anything wrong etc and they almost never explained what was going on with a reasonable explanation. I didn’t explain everything at the time, because for one, I didn’t want to reveal to many identifying details and secondly I honestly wasn’t consciously aware of what was happening in my own life and how I was feeling and reacting. This program really helped me to be more cognizant of my conscious and unconscious thoughts and feelings and my actions as a physician and what my role and expectations are.

Now onto the future. As of today I have a second round interview with Bain for a consulting position and I have found myself with a current job as a physician examiner for an insurance company. Im extremely happy with my current position and It has reignited my passion for clinical medicine. I’m not quite sure what the future hold in terms of getting a residency position, but I’m not sure I would have changed what had occurred in the past. For me everything occurs for a reason and offers us all the opportunity to grow and learn from your mistakes. I’m grateful for the feedback I did receive from so many members on here and I will happily answer any questions that people have. I will also not hesitate to put you in contact with program I was involved in as for me it changed my life.

One last piece of advice to any Resident who who has found themselves in trouble or looking down the barrel at resigning or being fired. Remember that tomorrow is another day and your have a MD/DO and no one can take that away from you. Secondly I would urge you to seriously think and take stock of and be accountable for your own thoughts and actions and how this has played out during your time in residency. Lastly be brutally honest with yourself, your residency director and faculty as I have found they have been nothing but helpful during this process and they only want you to succeed.

 

[deleted480308]

So Im only posting this as an update to what has previously transpired in this thread and an update to what has happened in my life.

After what transpired last year, I had a lot of soul searching to do. On the recommendation of a mentor and faculty member at my program I actually went to a physician health program. I don’t want to get into the weeds regarding this but this physician health program was one of the best things that has ever happened to me. This specific PHP was not cheap nor did they try and diagnose me with something, rather this was a psychodynamically focused day treatment program over 3 weeks with a group of other physicians which were also having problems in their environment. I grew a lot as a person and physician in the 3 weeks program and I leant on the other physicians at the program to help me with my blind spots and my weaknesses in my life and in residency. I’m proud to say that after I completed the 3 weeks of this program my treatment coordinator talked to my previous PD directly. My treatment coordinator was basically able to advocate on my behalf based on my progress he had witnessed in the program and his 20 year’s experience treating disruptive physicians and residents. My PD has informed me that I will be getting a positive letter of recommendation given he better has an understanding of the difficulties I was having during residency. I couldn’t be happier about this and I’m extremely grateful for this second chance.

Now as many of you clearly pointed out there was more going on to my story and more to explain. As many threads on SDN are entitled, I quit residency/ I resigned/ I didn’t do anything wrong etc and they almost never explained what was going on with a reasonable explanation. I didn’t explain everything at the time, because for one, I didn’t want to reveal to many identifying details and secondly I honestly wasn’t consciously aware of what was happening in my own life and how I was feeling and reacting. This program really helped me to be more cognizant of my conscious and unconscious thoughts and feelings and my actions as a physician and what my role and expectations are.

Now onto the future. As of today I have a second round interview with Bain for a consulting position and I have found myself with a current job as a physician examiner for an insurance company. Im extremely happy with my current position and It has reignited my passion for clinical medicine. I’m not quite sure what the future hold in terms of getting a residency position, but I’m not sure I would have changed what had occurred in the past. For me everything occurs for a reason and offers us all the opportunity to grow and learn from your mistakes. I’m grateful for the feedback I did receive from so many members on here and I will happily answer any questions that people have. I will also not hesitate to put you in contact with program I was involved in as for me it changed my life.

I’m hapoy you found a life trajectory you seem please with. Good luck sir/ma’am

 

[hallowmann]

So Im only posting this as an update to what has previously transpired in this thread and an update to what has happened in my life.

After what transpired last year, I had a lot of soul searching to do. On the recommendation of a mentor and faculty member at my program I actually went to a physician health program. I don’t want to get into the weeds regarding this but this physician health program was one of the best things that has ever happened to me. This specific PHP was not cheap nor did they try and diagnose me with something, rather this was a psychodynamically focused day treatment program over 3 weeks with a group of other physicians which were also having problems in their environment. I grew a lot as a person and physician in the 3 weeks program and I leant on the other physicians at the program to help me with my blind spots and my weaknesses in my life and in residency. I’m proud to say that after I completed the 3 weeks of this program my treatment coordinator talked to my previous PD directly. My treatment coordinator was basically able to advocate on my behalf based on my progress he had witnessed in the program and his 20 year’s experience treating disruptive physicians and residents. My PD has informed me that I will be getting a positive letter of recommendation given he better has an understanding of the difficulties I was having during residency. I couldn’t be happier about this and I’m extremely grateful for this second chance.

Now as many of you clearly pointed out there was more going on to my story and more to explain. As many threads on SDN are entitled, I quit residency/ I resigned/ I didn’t do anything wrong etc and they almost never explained what was going on with a reasonable explanation. I didn’t explain everything at the time, because for one, I didn’t want to reveal to many identifying details and secondly I honestly wasn’t consciously aware of what was happening in my own life and how I was feeling and reacting. This program really helped me to be more cognizant of my conscious and unconscious thoughts and feelings and my actions as a physician and what my role and expectations are.

Now onto the future. As of today I have a second round interview with Bain for a consulting position and I have found myself with a current job as a physician examiner for an insurance company. Im extremely happy with my current position and It has reignited my passion for clinical medicine. I’m not quite sure what the future hold in terms of getting a residency position, but I’m not sure I would have changed what had occurred in the past. For me everything occurs for a reason and offers us all the opportunity to grow and learn from your mistakes. I’m grateful for the feedback I did receive from so many members on here and I will happily answer any questions that people have. I will also not hesitate to put you in contact with program I was involved in as for me it changed my life.

One last piece of advice to any Resident who who has found themselves in trouble or looking down the barrel at resigning or being fired. Remember that tomorrow is another day and your have a MD/DO and no one can take that away from you. Secondly I would urge you to seriously think and take stock of and be accountable for your own thoughts and actions and how this has played out during your time in residency. Lastly be brutally honest with yourself, your residency director and faculty as I have found they have been nothing but helpful during this process and they only want you to succeed.

I'm actually going to ask you, if you don't mind, to indicate the state your PHP was in. There are many PHP horror stories, some I have heard myself from people I trust. I have also heard positive stories. It will likely be beneficial to others in your state to know that your PHP treated you appropriately and not in an exploitative way. It may increase the likelihood of them seeking evaluation/treatment if they struggle.

I'm not going to ask you more about your story, despite my curiosity. I'm just going to say, congratulations, and I wish you the best in finding a place and a life that brings you happiness.

 

[movingtopastures]

I'm actually going to ask you, if you don't mind, to indicate the state your PHP was in. There are many PHP horror stories, some I have heard myself from people I trust. I have also heard positive stories. It will likely be beneficial to others in your state to know that your PHP treated you appropriately and not in an exploitative way. It may increase the likelihood of them seeking evaluation/treatment if they struggle.

I'm not going to ask you more about your story, despite my curiosity. I'm just going to say, congratulations, and I wish you the best in finding a place and a life that brings you happiness.

Sure no problem, the PHP program I went to is located in Kansas, if someone so desires they can message me directly for the name

 

[movingtopastures]

So I thought I would give an update to this story, given the time that has passed. there's not alot of stories out there about getting another residency this so I figure this may help.

During this past match I ended up getting 2 interviews in internal medicine. Both interviews wanted to know what happened in the previous residency and they were both more interested in me and what I had done since residency. Both were moderately sized University based programs. Unfortunately come match day I didn't match and I ended up reaching out to the program director for some feedback. He was extremely nice and told me that we like you but unfortunately there are people without a red flag who get ranked higher. This was obviously disappointing but not unexpected.

Given my previous residency was in psychiatry I ended up applying to some of the vacant PGY2 spots that are available after the match. This was done with the support of my previous PD, associate PD and faculty who all wrote letters of support and called on my behalf. Im extremely happy to say that today I accepted a PGY2 position in psychiatry to restart my medical career.

This has been an extremely long road for me but im extremely grateful for the experience and the comments here previously which helped to put in perspective somethings in my own mind. Looking at my first post and other comments it really shows how immature I was at the time.

I will say that its not impossible to get back into a residency program, but you have to be aware it requires serious hard work and honest appraisal of yourself and being critical of what you did wrong. Don't think that step scores and research will get you another Residency, people want to know how you have changed and how you are going to make sure this won't happen again.

I would like to tell anyone whose on probation, or thinking about resigning or being terminated or whose made a mistake. Please please please reach out to faculty, a mentor, your program director. They want to help you and get ahead of things like this, you have to be brutally honest and open with them. Please don't wait and think you can do everything on your own and sort your **** out yourself. People do want to help you but you have to communicate and let them know as we are not mind readers.

If anyone reads this further down the line feel free to reach out with questions and I can try to help.

 

[j4pac]

So I thought I would give an update to this story, given the time that has passed. there's not alot of stories out there about getting another residency this so I figure this may help.

During this past match I ended up getting 2 interviews in internal medicine. Both interviews wanted to know what happened in the previous residency and they were both more interested in me and what I had done since residency. Both were moderately sized University based programs. Unfortunately come match day I didn't match and I ended up reaching out to the program director for some feedback. He was extremely nice and told me that we like you but unfortunately there are people without a red flag who get ranked higher. This was obviously disappointing but not unexpected.

Given my previous residency was in psychiatry I ended up applying to some of the vacant PGY2 spots that are available after the match. This was done with the support of my previous PD, associate PD and faculty who all wrote letters of support and called on my behalf. Im extremely happy to say that today I accepted a PGY2 position in psychiatry to restart my medical career.

This has been an extremely long road for me but im extremely grateful for the experience and the comments here previously which helped to put in perspective somethings in my own mind. Looking at my first post and other comments it really shows how immature I was at the time.

I will say that its not impossible to get back into a residency program, but you have to be aware it requires serious hard work and honest appraisal of yourself and being critical of what you did wrong. Don't think that step scores and research will get you another Residency, people want to know how you have changed and how you are going to make sure this won't happen again.

I would like to tell anyone whose on probation, or thinking about resigning or being terminated or whose made a mistake. Please please please reach out to faculty, a mentor, your program director. They want to help you and get ahead of things like this, you have to be brutally honest and open with them. Please don't wait and think you can do everything on your own and sort your **** out yourself. People do want to help you but you have to communicate and let them know as we are not mind readers.

If anyone reads this further down the line feel free to reach out with questions and I can try to help.

Great story! I’m very happy for you. Make the most of your second chance

 

[thumbz]

Honestly well done on all counts. You took ownership, worked to fix your shortcomings and came out on top. I'm super impressed and excited you found your way back into clinical medicine!

 

[Dral]

Back in residency, I was on a Chief retreat for all the programs at my institution and they had a speaker who was previously an internal med resident (not at our institution's program) who had substance abuse issues. She was treated, then fell off the wagon again. She left residency and did a lot of work to get better. She ended up getting a psych spot and was their current chief at the time. It can be done.

Congrats!