The 12 year old M.D./Ph.D. student

[Ivorymist]

What do you guys think of the M.D./Ph.D. kid who's going to U of Chicago?

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[peterockduke]

There was a 9-11 year old who was nominated for a AB scholarship at Duke University on the weekend that I was there for my own scholarship competition. I couldn't believe the kid I saw on TV was actually there...

Suppossedly he ended up interviewing for one of the full rides and ended up being turned down b/c he was "too immature". I think that his admissions was also pulled. As far as this little genius goes... I wonder if he's the kid who wants to get a degree in engineering, poli sci, etc (there were like 5 degrees this other kid wanted to obtain). Hooray, for shallow undergraduate knowledge!

This kid was obviously pushed by his parents, the people that interviewed him for the scholarship thought so too. I think as far as the coursework/research goes he'll be fine (though I really wouldn't want a 12 year old around EtBr or t-butyl-lithium ... toxic v flammable). As far as patients go... I think they're saving that for the second half of his time there. Honestly, I would not want a 12 or 15 or even 18 year old doc, I don't care how smart he's suppossed to be.

I'm guessing that he is still going to be taken care of by his mother. Thats good, now his is this kid gonna take care of other people? I just look at it as one more socially defunct person entering medical school. Oh well 🙄

 

[Neuronix]

Before everyone goes nuts on this topic yet again, I just want to interject one point of fact. He is doing one year of medical school, then doing his PhD thesis, then coming back for years 2 - 4. He is to have no direct patient contact during his first year.

This puts him seeing patients at the earliest at age 17. You can argue that he's too young to be involved with patients at this age or that he's too young to make up his mind at this point if you want.

Ok, carry on.

 

[Gbemi24]

I would be really disappointed if this kid ever becomes a clinician. He is obviously very talented and should spend his career in basic science. Clinical science should be left to us mortals.

 

[Sonya]

I am very supportive of his going there. damn, i'm here at U of C working, i'd like to meet him some time.

I'm really sick of arguing against (which i've done a ton of on other posts and other places) shallow posts like what you wrote, peterockduke. You don't know that kid, so you can't say anything. you may be right, but still, you don't know him. But, enough said, i'm not going to get on a preach stand... you can hold your opinions. I'm just going to hold hold my opinion that you're the one being shallow, in this situation.

and that kid getting like 5 other degrees.. it was a different kid (if i'm thinking of the same one you are).

Well, i think good for this kid. If i were him, I'd hate all this media attention he's getting. But, i think it's overall a good thing, so others know what happens. Because he has gotten this much publicity, he will set a precedent for other younger applicants. Hopefully a positive one.

Sonya

 

[peterockduke]

Sonya I'm playing the world's tiniest violin for you and your problems.

You make a personal attack against me when I state my opinion then go on to make a post about not judging people you don't know (the best part is that you continue to rationalize your attack). Wow... the hypocrisy award goes to....YOU! Amazing how you can overlook your double talk.

The question asked for opinions on what people thought about the kid. I gave a specific example of how I would not feel comfortable with someone under 18 practicing medicine and why. I think he'll make an excellent researcher like that other poster said... is that shallow too? The MD part is most certainly optional... I don't want to be face to face with a surgeon who can't drive a car yet. I also do not want a doctor who has spent an excessive amount of time in front of books and doing research, yet has grown increasingly distant from the common man. What would you understand about these concerns princess? Have socially undeveloped doctors ever effected your life... I'm guessing they haven't. So you're shallow for even commenting on me since of course, you don't know me.

Would it also be shallow if I said short people generally don't make good basketball players or that 12 year olds generally aren't that mature? Shallow or just common sense?

Raw intelligence and common sense are loosely related at best. What are the odds that this kid is just as precocious in maturity?

If you would like to make any more attacks you can simply PM me and I can simply laugh at you some more. I think I'm done w/ this thread.

 

[Sonya]

Just the part of "the kid was obviously pushed by his parents" bugs me. Why is it obvious, besides that it also happens to be the adcoms opinion?

I happened to be clear that I was saying you were shallow with regard to this topic. I am not judging you on anything besides your view on this topic. Maybe I wasn't clear, I said "in this situation". But you do go on to judge me and call me names ... oh well. Have fun.


And, I am not supporting my statement, "you don't know the boy" with the rest of my post. The rest of my post is just some tangential opinions, not driving any unified point.


In all the helpful advice i've given here, and received here (or anywhere else), i don' think i've ever said/felt this way before. I apologize for saying this, but i am going to. I'm glad I peeved you out a little by this. I'm not speaking to you specifically
but to everyone who has made such statements.

Sonya
PS, I've seen plenty of socially unadapted physicians.

 

[canadagirl]

The question of whether this is a good thing for either him or for patients has been discussed to death. Personally, I don't really know or care whether it's best for him - it's none of my business. That's a decision for him and his parents to make. And since he's not going to be seeing patients until a more reasonable age, the question of patient contact seems moot as well.

More interesting (for me) is the question of whether it is worth doing an MD/PhD program if you take this route. My understanding is that he is doing 1 year of MD with no patient contact, then several years of PhD with no medical integration, and then returning to do the rest of the medical degree.

What's the point? Why not just do a PhD followed by a medical degree? We are constantly asked in this forum "Why MD/PhD?" For me, anyways, this kind of MD/PhD program does not really give good reasons for doing the combined program.

 

[MacGyver]

UChicago made a stupid decision to accept this kid.

If he's doign PHD work first, then whats the point of a combined degree program? He might as well just do a grad program first and then apply to med school later.

UChicago is just trying to make some notoriety here. The kid was a mediocre applicant, its not like he had 5 first author published papers or something.

This kid is going to have ZERO clinical experience before he has a PhD in his hands. Tell me again, why do a combined degree program? The Chicago people obviuosly dont have a very good understanding of it themselves. This basically amounts to a publicity stunt.

 

[peterockduke]

I agree 100% with MacGyver actually.

I am shocked by any person who claims they want a MD who doesn't have basic social skills. By endorsing a 12 year old thats basically what you do. I had a surgery where a doc started ripping into me while I could still feel it. We actually argued about whether or not I could feel the scalpel... I had to threaten to leave before I could get more local anasthesia.

I'm not threatened that this kid has loads of talent, it's quite amazing actually. It's just that everyone seems to overlook the maturity/social understanding that docs really need. I have personally been blessed and cursed by having both very good and bad surgeons. It's something that needs improvement.

 

[noy]

For all I have read, it seems like a publicity stunt - and in that sense, its fine. Everyone gets to hear U of C over and over again, which is free advertising for them. All the criticism is againt the admissions commitee, the kid, and the parents - perhaps rightly placed on the latter.

Is it rare for a 17 year old to get into med school? Yes. Unheard of? No. So he will be fine there.

Is it rare for a 13 year old to start PhD work? Yes. Unheard of? Not as far as I know...

He will need to mature quite a bit, but with the drive and the parents, there doesnt seem to be much of a question that he would go this route eventually, so at least one school figured to pick him up now...

It will be funny when his parents need to sign his dissertation/thesis though!

 

[ArrogantSurgeon]

There was a student at Mt Sinai who started med school at 13 and graduated when he was 17...making him the world's youngest doctor. He then went to Harvard/Mass General for ophthalmology residency and is now an attending eye surgeon at a university in Georgia if I'm not mistaken. His name is Dr Ambatti or something like that. He faced the same criticisms about being too young, too immature, etc but proved his critics wrong. Anyway, it shows that it can be done by very young people if they are emotionally well-adjusted.

 

[Sonya]

doesn't anyone think this boy is REALLY going to be almost pushed (maybe indirectly, or convinced ) into largely research by so many people? I think everyone sees a very large potential for him in research. I've known several PIs who consider it an obvious link that if they are so young and so bright, they must succed with research. As some one said here, the MD PhD programs are looking for research potential, aka will you become some department head or really succesful in your field.

Do you think he has any clinical experience, like volunteering, or even shadowing? In most hospitals you need to be at least 14.
I wouldn't say with a 3.9+ and 40+ he's a mediocre applicant. but, i'm curious how he can say he'd like medicine. I mean, how do you know you'll still like it despite all the difficulties in residency and all.

I don't doubt U of C is getting a good deal of publicity.

I also think a lot of people do combined degrees with their research and medical interests being totally out of line with each other. Less point to it, yeah, but it happens.

Sonya

 

[MacGyver]

All MD/PhD admissions committees should ask 3 fundamental questions of every applicant:

1) Does this person have a committment to medical research?

2) Does this person have good reasons for the combined degree program?

3) Why specifically a combined degree program? Why not PhD or MD only?

Clearly, UChicago failed to ask 2 of these questions. I've seen the kids interviews on TV, and basically his reasons are "I want to help people and I like science"

Of course if that sounds like something a naive 12 year old would say, you're right. He may know the ins and outs of organic chemistry, but to me he doesnt even really know what hes getting into. Remember, he has ZERO clinical experience. That wouldnt bother me quite so much if he was older, because older people can genuflect better and make honest appraisals of their aptitude for clinical situations.

Think about it this way. What if the guy was a typical 22 year old applicant? I'm saying theres no way he would get accepted, even if he had a 45 MCAT. Having your mommy make lunches for you and not being able to go any further in-depth than "I want to help people" just doesnt cut it.

UChicago accepted this kid BECAUSE he was young, not in spite of it. They wanted to send a message or whatever and get some notoriety for their program.

This kid is 1000X better suited for a straight PhD program. Let him work on multiple PhDs for awhile and then reapply later to med school. Its not like he has to be in med school RIGHT NOW.

A combined degree program is special--its not just a PHD and MD thrown together. Clearly Chicago doesnt understand that.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Sonya
I don't doubt U of C is getting a good deal of publicity.

Actually, they're getting NATIONAL publicity as the school and the boy were interviewd by CBS (I think) last week.

I also agree with Mac and others on this thread, I think admitting the him was a bad idea. As the mother of a bright child 😉 , I'd NEVER allow my child to begin medical or graduate studies at such a young age. This kid spent his summers in a research lab while other kids are enjoying summer camp. If I were his parents I would have made sure he did research AND had summer camp like other kids his age.

 

[Nuel]

I see we all agree on one thing--the kid is capable of handling the PhD. The bone of contention here is that either the MD is wrong for him or he is getting into it too soon as the possiblity exists he doesn't know what it entails. While this may be true, I believe in Destiny, others may call it God. If this boy has been destined for this career path then he could end up successful. Most claim he is too young, however Balamurali Admati got into med school at 13. After bagging his MD at 17, he has become a successful fellow in both medical science and research. Even in foreign countries (the UK included), students can get into medical school as early as age 15. Some of them may have never cleaned a wound, nay a gaping sore. Does this mean bad doctors are in the offing? Of course not!
Acknowledging that the case of one may not be the outcome in the other, we should also bear in mind that our predictions are not error proof.
I think we would be better of talking about this kid 10 -15 years from now. On personal bias, I expect to see a successful Sho Yano.

 

[wgu]

This guy's probably raised a winner with all the right habits. I think he'll succeed no matter where he goes and what he does... but a minor drawback, if he's into the basic research sector, is that after a larger chunk of med school, his state-of-art research will age.

 

[MacGyver]

Everything about this kid argues for him doing a straight PhD and NOT an MD/PhD

 

[vixenell]

"I want to help people and I like science"

How many of us traditional applicants could get accepted with this type of answer?

Zero.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by vixenell
"I want to help people and I like science"

How many of us traditional applicants could get accepted with this type of answer?

Zero.

Damn straight.

Not a single damn one of us gets accepted if we articulate our motives in that manner.

UChicago accepted him BECAUSE he was a 12 year old, not in spite of it. If you had put his mind/social aptitude into an adult body, not a chance he gets accepted.

 

[Ericokle]

Sho Yano has finally finished the MD/PhD Program at age 21:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-boy-wonder-20120603,0,6960752,full.story

 

[StIGMA]

For anyone wondering about his thesis research: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=yano ST & http://gradworks.umi.com/33/69/3369426.html

Not nobel prize-worthy by any stretch, but I am glad he has been successful.

 

[SBR249]

Sho Yano has finally finished the MD/PhD Program at age 21:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-boy-wonder-20120603,0,6960752,full.story

Just in time to celebrate with a beer! Awesome! 😎