The 2011 Decision Help Thread

[attackemu]

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I thought it'd be a good idea to start a thread for people (like me!) who would appreciate input on the programs to which they have been offered admission. Questions about reputation, program style, graduation outcomes/where are graduates now, advice on the differences between programs etc. etc. would fit well here, I think.

I don't think it's inappropriate to name the schools you're deciding between (though it may be--I'm not an expert on this forum's rules!), but if you feel uncomfortable about being explicit about the program's name, you can just call it School A/B, and just describe it well. 🙂

And, of course, congrats on even HAVING a decision to make!!

 

[Jegg]

I thought it'd be a good idea to start a thread for people (like me!) who would appreciate input on the programs to which they have been offered admission. Questions about reputation, program style, graduation outcomes/where are graduates now, advice on the differences between programs etc. etc. would fit well here, I think.

I don't think it's inappropriate to name the schools you're deciding between (though it may be--I'm not an expert on this forum's rules!), but if you feel uncomfortable about being explicit about the program's name, you can just call it School A/B, and just describe it well. 🙂

And, of course, congrats on even HAVING a decision to make!!

(if this thread already exists, let me know)

The Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology was a great resource for me in applying. It has a lot of salient information about accredited schools. I give it a thumbs up. (Because I like using the thumbs up emoticon at least once in awhile!) 👍

😀

 

[katinatree]

I thought it'd be a good idea to start a thread for people (like me!) who would appreciate input on the programs to which they have been offered admission. Questions about reputation, program style, graduation outcomes/where are graduates now, advice on the differences between programs etc. etc. would fit well here, I think.

I don't think it's inappropriate to name the schools you're deciding between (though it may be--I'm not an expert on this forum's rules!), but if you feel uncomfortable about being explicit about the program's name, you can just call it School A/B, and just describe it well. 🙂

And, of course, congrats on even HAVING a decision to make!!

(if this thread already exists, let me know)

Congrats on your acceptances!

I agree with what the poster above me said... but also I think that there are a lot of the answers to your questions on the specific websites of the schools.

I feel as though choosing where you are going to be for the next major stage of your life, the place which is going to mold you into the person that you want to become and enable you to follow the career path you imagine yourself walking down, is an extremely personal decision.

Also... you might be "asking for it" a bit. This may sound a little cynical, but I think that if there are people who know what schools someone is considering they might actually try to talk you out of going there so that they might have a better shot of being accepted off the waitlist or what have you. Just saying!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Congrats on your acceptances!

I agree with what the poster above me said... but also I think that there are a lot of the answers to your questions on the specific websites of the schools.

I feel as though choosing where you are going to be for the next major stage of your life, the place which is going to mold you into the person that you want to become and enable you to follow the career path you imagine yourself walking down, is an extremely personal decision.

Also... you might be "asking for it" a bit. This may sound a little cynical, but I think that if there are people who know what schools someone is considering they might actually try to talk you out of going there so that they might have a better shot of being accepted off the waitlist or what have you. Just saying!

It's of course possible that some people may try to "sabotage" questions in this thread for their own benefit, but I'd imagine the majority of posters will be replying in earnest. If you want to avoid that confound almost altogether, though, you can choose to focus simply on the advice or suggestions offered by those already in, or already having completed, grad school.

 

[Mauricia]

ok, well I have a question about prestige. I received an acceptance for a program that I felt was a really good fit, the grad students publish a lot in top journals, and the mentor I would be working with is very well known and well respected. I loved the program and was basically set on accepting, then one of my mentors said that it is "not the best school" in terms of prestige. I'm not going to lie, I don't totally value her opinion on this, she's not a clinical psych professor. However, I do want a faculty position post grad school so I know prestige matters. In the US News and World Report rankings it is in the top 25. Does this ranking mean anything? Are there other rankings to go by? Everything I know about the program supports that it is a great program (internship match, publications by faculty and students, etc) so is it more likely that my mentor just doesn't know what she's talking about?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

ok, well I have a question about prestige. I received an acceptance for a program that I felt was a really good fit, the grad students publish a lot in top journals, and the mentor I would be working with is very well known and well respected. I loved the program and was basically set on accepting, then one of my mentors said that it is "not the best school" in terms of prestige. I'm not going to lie, I don't totally value her opinion on this, she's not a clinical psych professor. However, I do want a faculty position post grad school so I know prestige matters. In the US News and World Report rankings it is in the top 25. Does this ranking mean anything? Are there other rankings to go by? Everything I know about the program supports that it is a great program (internship match, publications by faculty and students, etc) so is it more likely that my mentor just doesn't know what she's talking about?

The US News rankings aren't very meaningful with respect to clinical psych programs' prestige. As you've mentioned, better indicators tend to be the CVs of your POI and his/her students (e.g., where and how much they publish, of what professional societies they're members/fellows and have possibly held elected positions, what journals they've edited or have sat on editorial boards).

In all honesty, your advisor may not have the best idea what the prestige is like for divisions outside her own. I know that, for example, I'd be of little help (as would my advisor most likely) if a prospective social or I/O psych student asked me for advice about the renown of a particular program.

 

[PsychScience]

Also... you might be "asking for it" a bit. This may sound a little cynical, but I think that if there are people who know what schools someone is considering they might actually try to talk you out of going there so that they might have a better shot of being accepted off the waitlist or what have you. Just saying!

Although sabotage is possible, it seems unlikely. I have noticed very few posters on the psych forum that come across as malicious or intentionally cruel. Additionally, if people are trying to preserve anonymity and using the "program A versus program B" format, others would not know the university they are referring to and likely have nothing to gain by giving faulty advice. For the most part, I think you will get truthful, honest opinions.

ok, well I have a question about prestige. I received an acceptance for a program that I felt was a really good fit, the grad students publish a lot in top journals, and the mentor I would be working with is very well known and well respected. I loved the program and was basically set on accepting, then one of my mentors said that it is "not the best school" in terms of prestige. I'm not going to lie, I don't totally value her opinion on this, she's not a clinical psych professor. However, I do want a faculty position post grad school so I know prestige matters. In the US News and World Report rankings it is in the top 25. Does this ranking mean anything? Are there other rankings to go by? Everything I know about the program supports that it is a great program (internship match, publications by faculty and students, etc) so is it more likely that my mentor just doesn't know what she's talking about?

When it comes to clinical psychology, US News and World Report rankings are just one of the indicators of a quality program, but it certainly doesn't factor in all aspects of clinical psychology programs. I think you already hit on some of the really important factors to consider, including research productivity, match rates, and the "fit" of the program with your goals. Additionally, and I think if you do a search on SDN you will also find this, if your end goal is an academic position it is often more advantageous to work with a mentor who is well known and established in the field rather than just having a degree from the most prestigious university. Trust your gut on this one, it sounds like it is a great program. This doesn't mean that your current mentor is wrong, she just might not have all the information that you have to make an informed decision.

 

[ILGirl]

ok, well I have a question about prestige. I received an acceptance for a program that I felt was a really good fit, the grad students publish a lot in top journals, and the mentor I would be working with is very well known and well respected. I loved the program and was basically set on accepting, then one of my mentors said that it is "not the best school" in terms of prestige. I'm not going to lie, I don't totally value her opinion on this, she's not a clinical psych professor. However, I do want a faculty position post grad school so I know prestige matters. In the US News and World Report rankings it is in the top 25. Does this ranking mean anything? Are there other rankings to go by? Everything I know about the program supports that it is a great program (internship match, publications by faculty and students, etc) so is it more likely that my mentor just doesn't know what she's talking about?

What percentage of students from this program go into academia? That is probably your best indicator. Also, if working at a Tier 1 institute is important to you, look at how many alums are at those universities.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

What percentage of students from this program go into academia? That is probably your best indicator. Also, if working at a Tier 1 institute is important to you, look at how many alums are at those universities.

As an academic...this is important.

 

[starsinnight]

Okay this is all hypothetical but something that has been bothering me.

Would you accept at a school to join the PhD program... if you hated it but had no other option left?

 

[psychphd4me]

Okay this is all hypothetical but something that has been bothering me.

Would you accept at a school to join the PhD program... if you hated it but had no other option left?

I would imagine you would receive different answer depending on whom you ask. A hindsight vs. foresight situation. If you ask an individual in their 20's, who has not started a real career yet, foresight might get the best of them and 5-7 years of misery may seem unbearable. However, if you ask someone in their 40's if they would have put up with 5-7 years of hardship for 20+ years of having a career they love, the answer would be an emphatic "YES!"

Really, if you hate the program, you are only tied to it for 4 years, doing your predoc the 5th and post doc the 6th/7th. 4-5 years of misery is nothing compared to the lifetime of hardship that many of those we seek to help experience. If anything, it could make you a better researcher/clinician in the long run.

 

[PsychScience]

Okay this is all hypothetical but something that has been bothering me.

Would you accept at a school to join the PhD program... if you hated it but had no other option left?

I think it would depend on the reasons that I dislike the program. There are valid reasons for hating a program that would make it a poor choice to attend, regardless if it is my only option. However, there are also reasons that I might dislike a program that I could ultimately overlook because it would get me to my end goal.

 

[zupa]

Hi! This is my first time posting because I really do need some help and hopefully an outside perspective will help...I have two schools that I need help choosing between and I've been thinking about it so much that my brain is fried. So here they are:

School A:
-APA Accred, well respected Clinical PsyD program
-Offers guarateed partial funding for all first years with eligibility for full funding
-Offers a stipend, but the amount depends of funding received
-State school, so tuition is not high in general
-2nd-4th years funding is not guaranteed, but is usually secured
-Closer to home, but still more than a few hours.
-Ruralish, but within an hour or two of a pretty large city

School B:
-APA Accred, Counseling PhD program
-Offers guaranteed funding for all years and a stipend (larger than other school's)
-State school
-Far from home, definitely a plane ride
-Rural, but still not more than two hours from a few large cities


I know the PhD vs PsyD differences and the Clinical vs Counseling differences, so that's not really my issue. I liked both schools (faculty, students, etc.) equally and both have great match rates and good practicum opportunities.

So here's my dilemma: I would like to stay closer to home, however the idea of potentially only receiving partial funding and only have it guaranteed for the first year is scary to me, even knowing that the out of state tuition is low. I know if I went to school B I would have full funding for the 4 years I'm at the school prior to internship, but I would be far from home. My problem really comes down to the funding vs distance issue. Any insights????

 

[psychmama]

It sounds like you have two very good options. There's no way for someone else to know the relative weight you'll give to the distance vs funding issue. However:

1) If you had full funding would it make spending money on travel home easier?

2) Since neither school is that close to home, will it matter a lot in the final analysis that one is somewhat closer? In either case I bet you'll only get home over breaks as opposed to weekends.

3) Is there one school where you felt more excited about the fit or more comfortable with the students and faculty? That would be important to me, and could break a potential tie.

4) Better funding sometimes means more TA and RA responsibilities along with classwork and practica. How do you feel about that?

Hope this helps. Good luck and congrats on two offers!

 

[zupa]

2) Since neither school is that close to home, will it matter a lot in the final analysis that one is somewhat closer? In either case I bet you'll only get home over breaks as opposed to weekends.

Great point! I hadn't really thought about this. It is about 5 hours from where I live now so I really do think it is too far to just make a weekend trip. I guess I was thinking more about people coming to visit me, but they wouldn't be driving 5 hours for a weekend either. So if someone was coming they'd be coming for a longer time and a two hour flight might even be better than a 5 hour drive.

3) Is there one school where you felt more excited about the fit or more comfortable with the students and faculty? That would be important to me, and could break a potential tie.

Unfortunately (for me) I really liked both of them. Each has some things that the other doesn't, if I could mesh them they would be perfect! Hoesntly, my only drawback to school A is the shaky funding, and it's a huge drawback...

 

[starsinnight]

Besides the funding vs distance debate, what abou the clinical vs counseling one. Which type of program do you feel more drawn to in the long run? Do you prefer continuing the rest of your life as either a Counseling Psychologist or Clinical Psychologist and are either or both research heavy and are you? What are your future goals and does that impact either choice?

If both programs cost the same and had the same amount of funding which would you pick? If both the programs were closer to home, which would you pick? Maybe try thinking of it that way.... ? Good luck.

 

[PsychScience]

Hi! This is my first time posting because I really do need some help and hopefully an outside perspective will help...I have two schools that I need help choosing between and I've been thinking about it so much that my brain is fried. So here they are:

School A:
-APA Accred, well respected Clinical PsyD program
-Offers guarateed partial funding for all first years with eligibility for full funding
-Offers a stipend, but the amount depends of funding received
-State school, so tuition is not high in general
-2nd-4th years funding is not guaranteed, but is usually secured
-Closer to home, but still more than a few hours.
-Ruralish, but within an hour or two of a pretty large city

School B:
-APA Accred, Counseling PhD program
-Offers guaranteed funding for all years and a stipend (larger than other school's)
-State school
-Far from home, definitely a plane ride
-Rural, but still not more than two hours from a few large cities


I know the PhD vs PsyD differences and the Clinical vs Counseling differences, so that's not really my issue. I liked both schools (faculty, students, etc.) equally and both have great match rates and good practicum opportunities.

So here's my dilemma: I would like to stay closer to home, however the idea of potentially only receiving partial funding and only have it guaranteed for the first year is scary to me, even knowing that the out of state tuition is low. I know if I went to school B I would have full funding for the 4 years I'm at the school prior to internship, but I would be far from home. My problem really comes down to the funding vs distance issue. Any insights????

What are the class sizes at each school? You mentioned that school A is well-respected, is school B? For School A you mentioned that in years 2-4 funding is secured by not guaranteed, do you know what percentage of students do/do not get funded in years 2-4?

Personally, funding was also an important deciding variable for me. I really did not want to take out loans. If truly all other things are equal for you, I would go to the program with funding.

 

[eh496]

Hey guys. I interviewed at LIU's Brooklyn campus for the Clinical Psychology PhD program. I was rejected from the PhD, but accepted into the master program.

Does anyone know anything about the program, the chances of masters students of later getting into the PhD program, how much time is reduced from the PhD program by having completed the masters? Any other info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[PsychUndergrad]

Me: Pursuing a primarily clinical career; hoping to work at a VA center, hospital, inpatient facility for substance abuse treatment; like research but do not want a career in academia

School A:
- APA accredited top Clinical Psych PsyD program
- 4 years + internship
- full tuition remission and stipend for four years
- dissertation
- tons of clinical hours and opportunity to have a few pubs
- class size: 5-7 students
- 100% APPIC match rate
- 90%+ licensing rate

School B:
- APA accredited Clinical Psych PhD program
- 6 years + internship
- full tuition remission for all years, iffy on the stipend (lower than School A)
- masters thesis and dissertation
- students struggling to get clinical hours
- class size: 5-7 students
- 75% APPIC match rate
- about 70% licensing rate
- top substance abuse faculty researchers work here; been called the Yale of substance abuse research

My one concern is being less marketable for internship, post-doc, employment with a PsyD in the field. I would appreciate any thoughts!

 

[O Gurl]

Me: Pursuing a primarily clinical career; hoping to work at a VA center, hospital, inpatient facility for substance abuse treatment; like research but do not want a career in academia

My one concern is being less marketable for internship, post-doc, employment with a PsyD in the field. I would appreciate any thoughts!

Sounds like you have 2 solid choices and should be successful with either, so congrats on those offers. 👍

No one knows how things will be in 5-6 years, but right now there are some barriers for PsyDs in some training and employment settings. However, it sounds like your option A is on the higher end in terms of quality PsyD programs. That said, I would be hesitant about any choice that could limit my possibilites, and would thus probably lean toward option B. Academia may not be your end goal, but if you are going to have to complete research anyway, you might as well do so with an awesome mentor in the field you are interested in. The skills you acquire will only help you--even in clinical practice. Financially, option B may actually be better despite the slightly lower stipend b/c remission for option A is only for 4 years. Even if you blaze through you would still have to pay for your internship year, correct? If you can get clarification in terms of clinical contact and practicum opportunities with option B, it may be a better choice.

Seriously, though. You don't seem to have a BAD option here.

 

[gnocchi]

I applied to programs in school psychology and I have 2 great acceptances right now and I'm torn! I know this is mainly clinical/counseling but maybe someone out there can offer me some insight?

1. USF - School Psychology, Ph.D.
- about 8 in cohort
- already received assistantship with tuition waived
- NASP and APA approved
- 5 years, including Ed.S. thesis and Ph.D. dissertation, 1 full year
internship

2. Rutgers - School Psychology, Psy.D.
- about 18 in cohort
- unsure about funding (tuition is a little expensive 🙁)
- NASP and APA approved
- 4-5 years, including dissertation and 1 full year internship

I like the faculty at both programs, and both seem really great to me. I know I included funding in the descriptions, but money and location put aside for a minute - I guess I'm wondering which degree/school would be "better" or more respected upon graduation? I'm pretty sure I would want to work in a school or other clinical setting, which is possible from either school. I really loved both - I need some advice!!

 

[O Gurl]

I am woefully unfamiliar with school psych, so please take my advice with a grain of salt. Rutgers has a generally solid reputation and solid 10-yr match rate for their School Psych PsyD (81%). I would urge you to inquire about match rates from USF. They only reported outcomes for 3 of the last 10 years--2 years saw a 100% match rate and one year had a 66% (1 out of 3 applicants did not match). I would certainly ask about the other years.That may help you weigh out whether the increased cost at Rutgers is worth it.

Check it out here (apologies if this is a re-post): http://www.appic.org/downloads/APPIC_Match_Rates_2000-10_by_Univ.pdf

 

[LA Lady]

Hi all!

This is my first time posting on this forum but I have been secretly following the forum for some time now and I greatly appreciate everybody's help in the application process thus far 😀

So I have a bit of a dilemma. I have received an offer from School A whose program I absolutely love but the mentor has not had the best track record with her grad students. 2 in the past 5 or so years have switched mentors. The mentor seemed ok to me but I don't love her or anything.

I am the first alternate for two professors at School B. After the interview, I personally wasn't jazzed about the program but all the graduate students raved both about the program and my possible mentors. The possible mentors were also really cool and super nice. I feel like working for either of them would be a great experience. School B's location also kinda sucked. My fiance is a good sport and will follow me anywhere but I think the area around this school will be a tough place to find a job in his field. It's also the furthest from home.

My top choice, School C: was awesome. Great mentor, great students, great program, and nice location. But, she just told me that she found out the day after interviews that she probably couldn't take a student. She did say there was a possibility this could change.

I should mention that all the schools are Clinical PhD programs are APA accredited and offer decent funding. They all have great match rates too!

So my question is how long do I wait for a possible offer from School B & C? I have been told that is rude to wait too long before accepting an offer and you risk upsetting your mentor. I am still waiting for a letter from the from School A's grad school but I have received an acceptance letter from the program with funding details (etc.)

Thanks in advance for your input on this tricky situation!

 

[emily621]

I'm on the waitlist at two clinical Ph.D., both of which I liked and would have no problem attending. Both offer full tuition remission and a fair stipend, both are accredited and have great match rates. I have no idea where on the waitlist I am at either program.

I received an offer last week from a third school, also a clinical Ph.D. program, that comes with very very limited funding. No tuition remission, and a $7000 stipend that decreases after the first year. So I'd be taking on a lot of debt to go to this program. Additionally, I didn't love my POI (but his work is very interesting, and apparently he really liked me), and they don't have wonderful match rates (looks like 70-85% usually).

My main question is - if this is the only offer I get, do I accept and suck it up on all the negatives that come with it? This is my second year applying - the thought of doing this for a third year makes me want to cry, but I don't want to be miserable and saddled with a ton of debt either.

 

[LaserPrinter]

I'm on the waitlist at two clinical Ph.D., both of which I liked and would have no problem attending. Both offer full tuition remission and a fair stipend, both are accredited and have great match rates. I have no idea where on the waitlist I am at either program.

I received an offer last week from a third school, also a clinical Ph.D. program, that comes with very very limited funding. No tuition remission, and a $7000 stipend that decreases after the first year. So I'd be taking on a lot of debt to go to this program. Additionally, I didn't love my POI (but his work is very interesting, and apparently he really liked me), and they don't have wonderful match rates (looks like 70-85% usually).

My main question is - if this is the only offer I get, do I accept and suck it up on all the negatives that come with it? This is my second year applying - the thought of doing this for a third year makes me want to cry, but I don't want to be miserable and saddled with a ton of debt either.

I wouldn't worry about that last part yet. I would wait as long as possible. Try to find out if there are other ways that you would be able to fund yourself at the school which accepted you. For example, see if the school offers graduate assistantships. Just ask all around about funding. It's possible to also be in a program and apply for national fellowships, so it may not be that you would have to get into years and years of debt if you find alternative routes.

 

[Born2rumble1st]

So, I have heard back from all of my schools at this point and have received one offer. I am in the position of either accepting this offer or reapplying next year. I loved the program and the research match is near perfect. The only problem is that the program is not yet APA accredited and the university it's associated with doesn't have a very strong reputation in anything but psychology. As I am interested in academia, I'm very concerned about these problems. While the accreditation problem will most likely be resolved by the time I graduate, will the school's general reputation hurt me so significantly in the future that I should just reapply next year? Any advice would be great!

 

[PsychUndergrad]

Sounds like you have 2 solid choices and should be successful with either, so congrats on those offers. 👍

No one knows how things will be in 5-6 years, but right now there are some barriers for PsyDs in some training and employment settings. However, it sounds like your option A is on the higher end in terms of quality PsyD programs. That said, I would be hesitant about any choice that could limit my possibilites, and would thus probably lean toward option B. Academia may not be your end goal, but if you are going to have to complete research anyway, you might as well do so with an awesome mentor in the field you are interested in. The skills you acquire will only help you--even in clinical practice. Financially, option B may actually be better despite the slightly lower stipend b/c remission for option A is only for 4 years. Even if you blaze through you would still have to pay for your internship year, correct? If you can get clarification in terms of clinical contact and practicum opportunities with option B, it may be a better choice.

Seriously, though. You don't seem to have a BAD option here.

Thanks for your input. I inquired and would have to pay about 4.5k of tuition during my internship year at School A. School B's students get 500-1000 clinical hours while School A's get 2000-3000. I also click with my prospective research mentor at School A quite a bit more.

Can anyone else offer any advice about this?

School A:
- APA accredited top Clinical Psych PsyD program
- 4 years + internship
- full tuition remission and stipend for four years
- dissertation
- tons of clinical hours and opportunity to have a few pubs
- class size: 5-7 students
- 100% APPIC match rate
- 90%+ licensing rate

School B:
- APA accredited Clinical Psych PhD program
- 6 years + internship
- full tuition remission for all years, iffy on the stipend (lower than School A)
- masters thesis and dissertation
- students struggling to get clinical hours
- class size: 5-7 students
- 75% APPIC match rate
- about 70% licensing rate
- top substance abuse faculty researchers work here

 

[yasushii]

Hey guys, I need a little help! I was accepted at the University of Virginia Curry School of Education and the University of Arizona both for the Clinical Psychology program. I can't decide between which offer to accept. Both schools have offered me equal funding and both faculty members are prestigious in the field. Also, both schools have friendly grad students that are pleased and happy with the program. Furthermore, grad students in these programs don't accrue a lot of debt. I should also add that the schools are APA accredited and have fantastic match rates. I'm really torn between the two because they both seem to be equal in most factors. Can anyone provide insight into both of these schools? Thanks!

 

[LaserPrinter]

Hey guys, I need a little help! I was accepted at the University of Virginia Curry School of Education and the University of Arizona both for the Clinical Psychology program. I can't decide between which offer to accept. Both schools have offered me equal funding and both faculty members are prestigious in the field. Also, both schools have friendly grad students that are pleased and happy with the program. Furthermore, grad students in these programs don't accrue a lot of debt. I should also add that the schools are APA accredited and have fantastic match rates. I'm really torn between the two because they both seem to be equal in most factors. Can anyone provide insight into both of these schools? Thanks!

The next thing that I would think about is way of life and cost of living, considering that 5-7 years is a good chunk of time to be in one place.

 

[yasushii]

The next thing that I would think about is way of life and cost of living, considering that 5-7 years is a good chunk of time to be in one place.

Well, cost of living is slightly better in Arizona, but not significantly different enough to swing my decision to one side. The way of life for both is pretty much equal. Thanks for the input; does anybody else have any insight?

 

[psychdocstudent]

Well, cost of living is slightly better in Arizona, but not significantly different enough to swing my decision to one side. The way of life for both is pretty much equal. Thanks for the input; does anybody else have any insight?

I don't know if you care but U V has a better general (usually for undergraduates though) and clinical rankings (smaller difference).

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Well, cost of living is slightly better in Arizona, but not significantly different enough to swing my decision to one side. The way of life for both is pretty much equal. Thanks for the input; does anybody else have any insight?

Do you have a geographic preference as to where you'd like, or could better stand, to live? Or, relatedly, is either program in an area where you might like to practice once you're finished with your training? I and many others can attest to the many excellent local networking opportunities you'll have during grad school (I've actually received a job offer, although unfortunately I don't know that I plan on returning here once I'm finished with internship next year), so keep that in mind when choosing a program.

Other things to consider: beyond internship match rates, do both programs have similar track records of applicants successfully landing positions in your desired occupational setting (e.g., academia, academic medical center, VA)? Do both have equal access to those practicum activities and settings you'd like to gain experience in, and overall equal levels of externship site variety (with respect to setting, population, assessment and intervention methods and orientations)?

Finally, a mental exercise you can try is this--imagine that you've committed to one site or the other; in which instance do you notice yourself experiencing less excitement, or a greater sense of "disappointment" (I use the term lightly here)?

 

[nomad11]

Hi all- I am trying to decide between a Counseling PhD (Fordham) and a Clinical PsyD (Yeshiva). They are quite different so it is a hard choice.

Fordham- has great supportive faculty, small class sizes and is a good research match but I am worried that counseling psych could be limiting since I may not be trained as thorougly in psychopathology. Also I heard there can be a bias against counseling psych for externships/jobs. Anyone know if this is true? The other thing is that I am not that interested in research- I am mostly interested in a program that provides excellent clinical training and I'm not sure if fordham does.

Yeshiva, however, appears to provide thorough training, tends to place students in great externships and I was very impressed by some of the profs I met and for these reasons I am leading towards going there. However, I have heard all these really vague negative rumors about the program on this forum. Can anyone PLEASE explain specifically what this about? My instinct is to not make a judgment based on internet rumors... Does this program have a good reputation in the field? Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[futureapppsy2]

I applied to programs in school psychology and I have 2 great acceptances right now and I'm torn! I know this is mainly clinical/counseling but maybe someone out there can offer me some insight?

1. USF - School Psychology, Ph.D.
- about 8 in cohort
- already received assistantship with tuition waived
- NASP and APA approved
- 5 years, including Ed.S. thesis and Ph.D. dissertation, 1 full year
internship

2. Rutgers - School Psychology, Psy.D.
- about 18 in cohort
- unsure about funding (tuition is a little expensive 🙁)
- NASP and APA approved
- 4-5 years, including dissertation and 1 full year internship

I like the faculty at both programs, and both seem really great to me. I know I included funding in the descriptions, but money and location put aside for a minute - I guess I'm wondering which degree/school would be "better" or more respected upon graduation? I'm pretty sure I would want to work in a school or other clinical setting, which is possible from either school. I really loved both - I need some advice!!

Both are good and, from everything I've heard about them, very well-respected school psych programs. The funding at USF would be a major plus in my mind, provided Rutgers doesn't come through with something similar. The smaller cohort may also be a plus--I'd ask Rutgers about how they handle their classes (e.g., do all cohort members take the same classes or are there multiple sections of each course?) and see if USF includes EdS students in their first and second year courses (not a bad thing, per se, but it would increase the class size).

I am woefully unfamiliar with school psych, so please take my advice with a grain of salt. Rutgers has a generally solid reputation and solid 10-yr match rate for their School Psych PsyD (81%). I would urge you to inquire about match rates from USF. They only reported outcomes for 3 of the last 10 years--2 years saw a 100% match rate and one year had a 66% (1 out of 3 applicants did not match). I would certainly ask about the other years.That may help you weigh out whether the increased cost at Rutgers is worth it.

Check it out here (apologies if this is a re-post): http://www.appic.org/downloads/APPIC...10_by_Univ.pdf

School psych can get really tricky with regards to interpreting match rates, as only a few programs regularly have all or most of their students go through the APPIC match. From what I've heard and seen, the programs that send all or most of their students through APPIC match and to APA accredited internships tend to have more of "clinical child" bent to their training in addition to the "traditional" school psych training. Programs with more of school focus--or, in a few cases, a very strong research focus--tend to send their students to more traditional school-based internships outside of the match process. Thus, many very solid programs end up only sending a fraction of their student through the APPIC match, which can make it difficult to compare across schools/programs. One point of consideration is that doing a non-APA or non-APPIC internship may cause issues if you want to be licensed as a psychologist (not only a school psych) down the road, especially if you are interested in working in a hospital setting (e.g., peds psych, peds neuro). Some academic jobs also prefer applicants who have completed APA-accredited internships, although this isn't across the board (yet). You can certainly still match into an APA-accred. internship from a program where m most of students go outside of match, but it may require some more work and planning on your part.

Also, in Florida, school psych students who do their internships in Florida public schools get their tuition reimbursed during internship year, which is an additional incentive that may draw people away from talking the APPIC/APA route for internship.

 

[ThirdLittleBird]

Hi all- I am trying to decide between a Counseling PhD (Fordham) and a Clinical PsyD (Yeshiva). They are quite different so it is a hard choice.

Fordham- has great supportive faculty, small class sizes and is a good research match but I am worried that counseling psych could be limiting since I may not be trained as thorougly in psychopathology. Also I heard there can be a bias against counseling psych for externships/jobs. Anyone know if this is true? The other thing is that I am not that interested in research- I am mostly interested in a program that provides excellent clinical training and I'm not sure if fordham does.

Yeshiva, however, appears to provide thorough training, tends to place students in great externships and I was very impressed by some of the profs I met and for these reasons I am leading towards going there. However, I have heard all these really vague negative rumors about the program on this forum. Can anyone PLEASE explain specifically what this about? My instinct is to not make a judgment based on internet rumors... Does this program have a good reputation in the field? Any advice would be appreciated!

A good instinct to have. I find it important to have people elaborate on negative views. For example, where I went to undergrad has a rating on a website of a "B", and most of the negative comments talked about the lack of diversity and the fact that the majority of students come from upper middle class+ backgrounds. This is true, but I knew this before I went there. Personally, I'm not offended if someone's parents foot the bill for their education. I don't come from a high SES background, but never found a single person who treated me as any less of a human being for this. Maybe because I didn't judge them because of their own SES? I have no problem with rich people, and I hope to be one someday!

In all seriousness, listen to the negative comments, but take them with a grain of salt unless they are from a first hand source. I don't really care what a friend of a friend thinks of the school I am going to. Also, you do run the small risk that someone on a waitlist to either one of your schools will provide false information, with the hopes that you turn them down and they advance on the list. Small risk, but something to consider.

 

[LT2222]

So far - acceptance at U of Manitoba - Clinical Psych.... POI emailed end of January and formal letter received Feb. 24 - excellent funding package; acceptance at Brock U - Social Psych - POI emailed at end of January - formal letter received Feb. 12 - excellent funding offer; Clinical Psych at U of Victoria - had 3rd interview on March 18 - they say I should "hear soon".... Rejected at Concordia and Western; no news from Calgary, Lakehead, Carleton, Dalhousie

 

[Introspect]

So here is my dilemma. I would greatly appreciate any thoughts, insight, feedback, etc.

I applied to both Clinical and Counseling (PhD) programs because I am interested and value both perspectives/emphases equally (though obviously for different reasons). I now have two offers of admission to consider, one for a clinical psych program and the other for a counseling psych program. Complicating the matter is the fact that one program is fully funded while the other is not, one is in a much more desirable location (for me) than the other, and the two have some differences in research opportunities.

School A
- Clinical Psychology PhD
- Partial funding available (probably about two years with a tuition waiver and stipend and two years without)
- 86% APPIC match rate for 2000-2010 (though their matches for the last two years were an abysmal 50% and 62%)
- Would get to do research in one of my two areas of research interest
- Great POI who I feel an extremely good connection with and who is also in practice (which is important to me)
- Isolated, but beautiful location where I think I would be happy to spend the next five years
- Connection with current grad students not great (feels a little competitive)
- Clinical supervision is conducted mostly by faculty (which is my preference)
- Emphasis on psychopathology satisfies my intellectual curiosity in this area

School B
- Counseling Psychology PhD
- Fully funded all four years with a tuition waiver and stipend
- 93% APPIC match rate (almost all APA accred)
- Would have an opportunity to do research in both of my areas of research interest
- Great POI who I connect well with but who is not a practicing/licensed psychotherapist
- Isolated and rather undesirable location (though I pride myself on being able to make the best of anything - and I would get a lot done 🙂 )
- Connection with current grad students is fantastic and I feel I would get to be a part of a very supportive community
- Clinical supervision not conducted by faculty
- Emphasis on social justice and feminism (important values to me so a big plus)

So here are the primary issues that I am having trouble with. I am under the impression that a Clinical degree will provide a greater breadth of options (it is, for lack of a better word, a more "marketable" degree). However, for the clinical program (School A) I would have to take out significant loans to make up for the lack of funding during two of my four years. I would also only be able to conduct research in one of my areas of interest, and the program lacks the social justice and feminist emphases I would find at School B.

On the other hand, while School B is fully funded and has the social justice and feminism emphases, its location kind of sucks and I'm afraid a Counseling Psych degree might be too limiting.

Any thoughts?

 

[kea2115]

So here is my dilemma. I would greatly appreciate any thoughts, insight, feedback, etc.

I applied to both Clinical and Counseling (PhD) programs because I am interested and value both perspectives/emphases equally (though obviously for different reasons). I now have two offers of admission to consider, one for a clinical psych program and the other for a counseling psych program. Complicating the matter is the fact that one program is fully funded while the other is not, one is in a much more desirable location (for me) than the other, and the two have some differences in research opportunities.

School A
- Clinical Psychology PhD
- Partial funding available (probably about two years with a tuition waiver and stipend and two years without)
- 86% APPIC match rate for 2000-2010 (though their matches for the last two years were an abysmal 50% and 62%)
- Would get to do research in one of my two areas of research interest
- Great POI who I feel an extremely good connection with and who is also in practice (which is important to me)
- Isolated, but beautiful location where I think I would be happy to spend the next five years
- Connection with current grad students not great (feels a little competitive)
- Clinical supervision is conducted mostly by faculty (which is my preference)
- Emphasis on psychopathology satisfies my intellectual curiosity in this area

School B
- Counseling Psychology PhD
- Fully funded all four years with a tuition waiver and stipend
- 93% APPIC match rate (almost all APA accred)
- Would have an opportunity to do research in both of my areas of research interest
- Great POI who I connect well with but who is not a practicing/licensed psychotherapist
- Isolated and rather undesirable location (though I pride myself on being able to make the best of anything - and I would get a lot done 🙂 )
- Connection with current grad students is fantastic and I feel I would get to be a part of a very supportive community
- Clinical supervision not conducted by faculty
- Emphasis on social justice and feminism (important values to me so a big plus)

So here are the primary issues that I am having trouble with. I am under the impression that a Clinical degree will provide a greater breadth of options (it is, for lack of a better word, a more "marketable" degree). However, for the clinical program (School A) I would have to take out significant loans to make up for the lack of funding during two of my four years. I would also only be able to conduct research in one of my areas of interest, and the program lacks the social justice and feminist emphases I would find at School B.

On the other hand, while School B is fully funded and has the social justice and feminism emphases, its location kind of sucks and I'm afraid a Counseling Psych degree might be too limiting.

Any thoughts?

Not to say, but when I was reading your post, all signs pointed to School B. I think the differences are quite glaring. It really seems the only downfall is location, but I would assume, like you said, you could hopefully make the best of it. Plus, it is a learning experience.

As for a counseling degree versus a clinical degree (call me biased as I am entering into a counseling program and applied to mostly counseling programs), the counseling degree is no less marketable than a clinical degree. You can do the same exact things with both, and you take the clinical psych licensing exam after graduating with a counseling PhD. So I'm not really sure how you see this degree as being limiting?? You can teach (yes in clinical departments and even in departments of psychiatry), practice, do research, etc. They even have neuropsych specializations within counseling psychology (Seton Hall). The only way the counseling degree may be seen as a detriment is if you have some clinical psych snobs who need to feel better about themselves by claiming their degree to be more "scientific". Ah, rant over.

 

[Introspect]

Just to clarify, I'm not necessarily in agreement with the statement about a Counseling Psych degree being more limiting or less marketable than a Clinical degree. I have just heard this (from a counseling psychologist) and I'm wondering if it might be true or what others who are more knowledgeable think.

 

[StudentBsMs11]

Just to throw my two cents into the ring, I think that something else to consider as far as the 'counseling' versus 'clinical' label goes is that what people tell you about emphasis and marketability today may not apply when you graduate in five or six years. It seems as though the differences between these is shifting, and the stigma that may or may not be attached to a counseling degree might fade in comparison to the stigma attached to the "Psy.D Diploma Mill" stigma one hears about everywhere on this site.
You'll still have the all-important "Ph.D" to attach to your name. Plus, don't discount your own ability to sell yourself and your knowledge - any stigma can be overcome as long as it's not backed by truth.

Also, it seems as though School B is clearly the better choice, location and possible marketability issues aside.

Congratulations on having a choice between two good schools, Introspect! 🙂

 

[Introspect]

The only way the counseling degree may be seen as a detriment is if you have some clinical psych snobs who need to feel better about themselves by claiming their degree to be more "scientific".

This is part of what I'm talking about that concerns me about getting a counseling psych degree. Whether it's true or not, if this perception of counseling psychology is out there then it may influence negatively how my qualifications are viewed and thus could limit my options somewhat.

In addition, it is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) that some internships/post-docs/jobs are specifically restricted to employing individuals with a clinical, and not a counseling, degree.

 

[kea2115]

This is part of what I'm talking about that concerns me about getting a counseling psych degree. Whether it's true or not, if this perception of counseling psychology is out there then it may influence negatively how my qualifications are viewed and thus could limit my options somewhat.

In addition, it is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) that some internships/post-docs/jobs are specifically restricted to employing individuals with a clinical, and not a counseling, degree.

I see your concern. I was actually surprised by how counseling psych is viewed by others. Just today I was met with surprise by someone when I told him what I planned on researching in my counseling psych program this fall. He said "wait, you are going to be doing research?" I said, "it's a PhD program, not PsyD........" and he said "yeah, but it's counseling." I almost droppped dead. I imagine, though, that once you get yourself deeply entrenched within the field, much of that would dissipate as clinical psychs and counseling psychs often work hand in hand. As stated previously, the two are often interchangeable. What really differs between the two fields is the overall model/school of thought they use to approach certain cases and such (think medical model vs. wellness model). I would confidently claim that there are more within group differences than between group difference.

Lastly, I know a doc student on internship now at a highly regarded public psychiatric hospital. She works on the detox unit, does outpatient work, consult-liasion work (psych er), and administers a battery of tests such as the Rorschach. So really, it is what YOU do with the degree. I know I chose counseling because my research interests are nearly non-existent in the clinical field, and I tend to take a systems perspective when viewing cases. Figure out what is best for you and make the most of it.

 

[123FakeStreet]

I was granted admission to one of my top choice schools

I recently received the paperwork about my admission, which stated that I would have full funding for the first year (woohoo!) However when I was interviewed I asked if I would receive addition funding for my 2nd, 3rd, 4th years. The faculty said yes, but this was not stated in the paperwork. Should I double check before accepting the offer? How do you approach the situation without sounding greedy or it coming off as demanding??

Thanks for the help!

 

[psychapps]

I was granted admission to one of my top choice schools

I recently received the paperwork about my admission, which stated that I would have full funding for the first year (woohoo!) However when I was interviewed I asked if I would receive addition funding for my 2nd, 3rd, 4th years. The faculty said yes, but this was not stated in the paperwork. Should I double check before accepting the offer? How do you approach the situation without sounding greedy or it coming off as demanding??

Thanks for the help!

Congrats! If I were in your shoes, I'd definitely double-check on the funding. From my experience, program directors and POIs have no problem with funding questions, as long as you're diplomatic about it.

If this is a clinical Ph.D. program, one thing to consider is that many programs won't "guarantee" funding beyond the first year. It's not that they don't provide full funding for all years, it's just that certain institutional/state laws prevent them from putting it in writing. In that case, you should ask about the program's historical record for funding. For instance, one of my programs noted that they have a 30-year record of providing full funding for a student's first 5 years.

 

[jules29]

Hello!

I've turned to my friends for advice but I think it would be good to find out what others in the field and those applying think.

I am currently accepted at 2 PsyD programs which are good, but in the city I grew up in. I was hoping to a) move b) attend a counseling psych program which is actually my preference.

I'm currently on 4 waitlists for very competitive counseling psych programs and am waiting. If i get into any of them, I am going!

However, what I have been contemplating lately is if I don't get off the waitlists at any of the counseling psych programs whether I should retry next year and do research this summer and year. I know it sounds crazy to not accept an offer but I don't want to spend 5-6 years of my life somewhere I don't really want to be but I don't know if it would be just crazy not to accept an offer.

Some other information is that I do have a Masters and can get licensed as a mental health counselor, so I do have something to lean on. i'm pretty confused but I'm actually leaning towards applying again next year to more counseling programs and not taking the psyd offers.

Anyone have advice or has been in a similar predicament!? Thanks so much and feel free to PM me!

 

[LKpsychology]

I was hoping i could get some advice. I was accepted into two clinical psyd programs as well as a few masters degree programs, which were my backup. However, the psyd programs are at professional schools. They are two of the more reputable prof. schools; however, i still worry about the stigma. Are they respected in the field? Both have decent internship match rates, but what is the actual reputation? There are a lot of things I'm still worried about.

I was waitlisted at my first choice clinical psyd program, a large university-based program. I'm now trying to figure out if I should pursue one of the professional schools, or maybe one of the masters programs and then try reapplying to the university based programs after it, etc. I was wondering if anyone had any advice.

 

[Phipps]

I was hoping i could get some advice. I was accepted into two clinical psyd programs as well as a few masters degree programs, which were my backup. However, the psyd programs are at professional schools. They are two of the more reputable prof. schools; however, i still worry about the stigma. Are they respected in the field? Both have decent internship match rates, but what is the actual reputation? There are a lot of things I'm still worried about.

I was waitlisted at my first choice clinical psyd program, a large university-based program. I'm now trying to figure out if I should pursue one of the professional schools, or maybe one of the masters programs and then try reapplying to the university based programs after it, etc. I was wondering if anyone had any advice.

HI:

I think it would partly depend on the Psy.D. programs. Do you feel comfortable sharing names of the schools with us?? ...and partly it depends on your ed. background and what you would like to do later one (in terms of teaching, research, or becoming a clinician etc.). There are some threads re: pros/cons about pursuing a MS first and then re-apply to Ph.D/Psy.D. programs. Again, my decision would partly depend on the Psy.D. programs.

 

[ariagirlno1]

I'm pretty set on a decision, but I just wanted to get some last-minute input. I was waitlisted at Widener (and am not holding on to much hope of getting in) which was my first choice program. I've been accepted at La Salle. I really like La Salle's program (the research and cognitive-behavioral emphases in particular), but I know it's not as well-ranked as Widener.

So my choices are to apply to masters programs (not even sure which at this point, since I haven't done any research, and I don't know what I'd do after that) or wait a year. If I waited a year, I would likely get a full-time position at the clinical job that I'm part-timing for now.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[LKpsychology]

HI:

I think it would partly depend on the Psy.D. programs. Do you feel comfortable sharing names of the schools with us?? ...and partly it depends on your ed. background and what you would like to do later one (in terms of teaching, research, or becoming a clinician etc.). There are some threads re: pros/cons about pursuing a MS first and then re-apply to Ph.D/Psy.D. programs. Again, my decision would partly depend on the Psy.D. programs.

sure! im deciding between the chicago school of professional psych as well as the massachusetts school of prof. psych. I'm coming to these programs straight out of undergrad with a psychology degree from a very good school with a high GPA. I plan on doing clinical work with adolescents, and both of these programs have concentrations in that, as does the school i am waitlisted at. I just don't know if i will face a lot of stigma coming from a professional school later in life.

 

[Phipps]

sure! im deciding between the chicago school of professional psych as well as the massachusetts school of prof. psych. I'm coming to these programs straight out of undergrad with a psychology degree from a very good school with a high GPA. I plan on doing clinical work with adolescents, and both of these programs have concentrations in that, as does the school i am waitlisted at. I just don't know if i will face a lot of stigma coming from a professional school later in life.

Thanks for sharing! Are both or any of the two APA accredited. I know, at least from the Chicago School, that it depends on the location. I personally would not join an unaccr'd program.

The topic of stigma is an interesting point. I think there are a lot of posts referring to how Psy.D. grads are viewed in comparison to Ph.D. programs. For me, not all Psy.D. programs have the same quality, nor do all Ph.D. programs are of equal quality. Having said that, it is not only how others may see you but how YOU feel about graduating from one of the two programs you have mentioned. Overall, I truly believe that Ph.D. programs are viewed as being more prestigious, looked at more favorable, most of the time funding is much much better, etc.pp.

If you are young and have the stamina and interest in going for a Ph.D. and already second guess yourself about entering as a Psy.D. student...maybe, follow your guts. A year goes fast and if you could polish your CV etc. why not try again...better than being unhappy...also, there are excellent Psy.D. programs (e.g., Baylor, Rutgers, Loyola U, etc.) and great MS programs with a focus on experimental psych (would help for a Ph.D. appl), think twice...and maybe, apply to a couple of Ph.D. programs. Many are very successful the sec year of applying.

G'luck

It's tough to find one's place. I myself try to figure that out and will most likely attend GWU - but am wait-listed at my top choice...so, still waiting.