The battle of the Washingtons

[jlamacc1]

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If you were into structural bio, biochem, and pharmacology, what would you choose: WashU or U. Washington?

 

[skillmatic]

That is all.

-E

 

[j-weezy]

I think you'll be happier in the midwest.

 

[OncDoc19]

That is all.

-E

Are you planning to withdraw from everywhere else now?

 

[skillmatic]

Are you planning to withdraw from everywhere else now?

UW is so awesome. As great as it is, I am still holding out for UCSF and UCLA. Once I get word from them, I'll make my decision. I am withdrawing everywhere else, though. Are you leaning towards any schools?

-E

 

[OncDoc19]

UW is so awesome. As great as it is, I am still holding out for UCSF and UCLA. Once I get word from them, I'll make my decision. I am withdrawing everywhere else, though. Are you leaning towards any schools?

-E

Well I'm not done with interviews yet but I do have a top 5 (I must decline to say which as I fear I am not at all anonymous on SDN). I haven't visited all of them though. I really hope I can narrow things down before revisit time!

 

[vector07]

My final decision was between WashU and UW. I'm interested in math modeling / biophysics.

UW is in Seattle, which rocks. I love mountain climbing, skiing, etc. It's a public school, which is a minor negative (because the school depends on state funding, which I was told may change significantly in the next decade). The med schools are split between all the different WAMI for the first year (or 2? cant remember..) and the 4th clinical year. That's a major downer. Also, in terms of clinical experience, WashU grads are better prepared as residents than UW'ers (according to a few faculty I met at Harvard and Penn). Finally, the students are far more diverse at WashU, since we draw from all over and not primarily from the WAMI region.

Research-wise, for me, there were more people in my area of interest at UW, but less well known / recognized as the few at WashU. Also, while both have solid administrative staff, WashU's staff are spectacular. They get **** done. When I applied, one student told me [hypothetically] if he ever went to jail, he'd call Brian (WashU administrator) before he'd call his parents. It helps too that WashU is extremely well funded. They'll pay for part / all trips to conferences etc. We're totally spoiled here, which is a nice change. It just makes it so you can concentrate on your studies / phd and not have to worry about.. well.. anything, really. The administrators will go to bat for you in pretty much any academic scenario.

I'm biased here (obviously), but tried to give you the reasons why I chose to come here.. Come to revisit (try to come to the revisit that is on the same weekend as MD revisit!), have a blast, and I hope to see you walking these halls next year.

 

[jlamacc1]

bump

 

[meowkat444]

i voted u washington... i applied there and not washu (no interview, which was the only rejection so far that actually hurt!). something about st louis... it's really a shallow, location-based vote.

 

[QofQuimica]

You can get an excellent education and superb research experiences at either school, and it's probably a matter of personal preference since cost won't be a huge factor for you. Go to both second looks if you don't have a strong gut feeling.

If it were me, I'd pick Wash U. But I'm more familiar with the researchers there, and I can't move to the west coast for personal reasons at this point in my life, so that makes the decision pretty easy. 😛

 

[solumanculver]

Hey,
It seems like the difference in program ranking between the two isn't really enough to make a choice on... No one's career was put to an early end because they went to UW rather than Wash U, or vice versa.

So it seems like all that's left is personal preference... and to be honest, I'm baffled as to why a person would prefer St. Louis to Seattle. Seattle is one of the best places in the country to live... and St. Louis seems, well, sucky.

Well, I'm a bit older than a lot of applicants, and I'll be starting a family while I'm in school, so maybe that kind of consideration means more to me...

 

[QofQuimica]

Hey,
It seems like the difference in program ranking between the two isn't really enough to make a choice on... No one's career was put to an early end because they went to UW rather than Wash U, or vice versa.

So it seems like all that's left is personal preference... and to be honest, I'm baffled as to why a person would prefer St. Louis to Seattle. Seattle is one of the best places in the country to live... and St. Louis seems, well, sucky.

Well, I'm a bit older than a lot of applicants, and I'll be starting a family while I'm in school, so maybe that kind of consideration means more to me...

We all have our own good reasons for preferring one place to another. I was 30 when I applied to med school, and my parents are older and have health issues. They live in FL, so it would be a real hardship for them and me if I were in Seattle. It's not like there aren't any good med schools in the eastern half of the U.S. such that my education and career would suffer if I didn't move to the west coast. So I didn't apply to any schools west of Missouri and Texas, and I will not consider moving to the west coast as long as my folks are alive (which I hope is a long time!). Like you, I didn't only have myself to consider when I was applying. 🙂

 

[solumanculver]

We all have our own good reasons for preferring one place to another. I was 30 when I applied to med school, and my parents are older and have health issues. They live in FL, so it would be a real hardship for them and me if I were in Seattle. It's not like there aren't any good med schools in the eastern half of the U.S. such that my education and career would suffer if I didn't move to the west coast. So I didn't apply to any schools west of Missouri and Texas, and I will not consider moving to the west coast as long as my folks are alive (which I hope is a long time!). Like you, I didn't only have myself to consider when I was applying. 🙂

Well, I guess I should add that I'm originally from around seattle and I'm homesick as hell... so I'm obviously biased in that respect.

Actually, for that reason UW was my first choice going into this application business, and they were also the only school to reject me pre-secondary... so that made me sad.

 

[Mr. Tee]

Hey,
It seems like the difference in program ranking between the two isn't really enough to make a choice on... No one's career was put to an early end because they went to UW rather than Wash U, or vice versa.

What rankings? USNews? For MSTP the difference is more than subtle. Wash U is a more than well-oiled physician-scientist-producing machine. But we'll let the NIH satisfaction and MSTP grant levels speak for themselves.

So it seems like all that's left is personal preference... and to be honest, I'm baffled as to why a person would prefer St. Louis to Seattle. Seattle is one of the best places in the country to live... and St. Louis seems, well, sucky.

Most of the people who bash on St. Louis haven't even been here before. Really, it's not bad here. On a day-to-day basis, you'll be in the library anyway

 

[solitude]

Most of the people who bash on St. Louis haven't even been here before. Really, it's not bad here. On a day-to-day basis, you'll be in the library anyway

I lived in St. Louis for 8yrs when I was younger, and I have to agree. I thought it was actually a really great town. It can't measure up to NY or Boston or San Fran in terms of entertainment, but it has a cheap cost of living, a pretty good amount of cultural activity for such a (relatively small) city, and the weather is actually pretty nice relative to the Northeast. Also you can pretty much get anywhere in the country for 200 bucks or less because the airport is a major hub.

 

[solumanculver]

What rankings? USNews? For MSTP the difference is more than subtle. Wash U is a more than well-oiled physician-scientist-producing machine. But we'll let the NIH satisfaction and MSTP grant levels speak for themselves.

Hi, I agree... I was trying to make that point, actually. I guess, I wasn't really being clear.

Most of the people who bash on St. Louis haven't even been here before. Really, it's not bad here. On a day-to-day basis, you'll be in the library anyway

Well... It's probably just fine in St. Louis, but compared to Seattle? In any case, it's going to be a personal decision in the end, but given two really good programs, I would choose the better city.

 

[j-weezy]

Hi, I agree... I was trying to make that point, actually. I guess, I wasn't really being clear.



Well... It's probably just fine in St. Louis, but compared to Seattle? In any case, it's going to be a personal decision in the end, but given two really good programs, I would choose the better city.

Unless you don't like Seattle weather...St. Louis may be humid in the summer and cold in the winter but my guess is that it has more days of sunshine year round and that can be important to some people...

 

[skillmatic]

Man, Seattle is getting owned.

 

[Neuronix]

I would pick Seattle purely on proximity to outdoorsy activities like downhill skiing.

 

[seraph524]

Pick Seattle if you like rain 24/7. Pick St. Louis if you want to live next to awesome gardens.

 

[solumanculver]

Pick Seattle if you like rain 24/7. Pick St. Louis if you want to live next to awesome gardens.

That's a malicious rumor about seattle... it's not rain 24/7, more like 2/7... if you know what I mean. And it's two hours of gentle, kindly sprinkles.

As for the gardens, I don't know how awesome they are, but they had better be like little gardens of eden if they're going to outcompete the cascade mountains and puget sound.

 

[QofQuimica]

Well, I guess I should add that I'm originally from around seattle and I'm homesick as hell... so I'm obviously biased in that respect.

Actually, for that reason UW was my first choice going into this application business, and they were also the only school to reject me pre-secondary... so that made me sad.

I feel ya. My original top choice school (when I first started applying) was the first to reject me, presecondary also. As it turned out, I think it was a blessing in disguise, because I was so star-struck by Most Awesome School that I wasn't researching other schools as seriously as I should have been. I had already made up my mind sight unseen, and that is never a good idea. After that rejection, I didn't have a top choice any more, so I basically went on interviews everywhere I could until I ran out of time and energy. There are an awful lot of awesome med schools out there. 🙂

 

[jlamacc1]

Hmm...I thought this poll would be a lot closer.

 

[InNotOf]

FWIW, I don't think you can go wrong with your decision.

 

[skillmatic]

Hmm...I thought this poll would be a lot closer.

Me too. You know you love that Pac-10 flavor!

 

[seraph524]

I think WashU's extraordinary wealth and their willingness to spend it on their students really attracts a lot of people...

 

[QofQuimica]

Hmm...I thought this poll would be a lot closer.

Clearly, you should obey the will of the denizens of the SDN physician scientist forum, and go to Wash U. 😉

 

[seraph524]

That's a malicious rumor about seattle... it's not rain 24/7, more like 2/7... if you know what I mean. And it's two hours of gentle, kindly sprinkles.

As for the gardens, I don't know how awesome they are, but they had better be like little gardens of eden if they're going to outcompete the cascade mountains and puget sound.

haha

I bet the rumors were started by people in St. Louis 😀

Isn't Apollo Ohno from Seattle?

 

[solumanculver]

haha

I bet the rumors were started by people in St. Louis 😀

Isn't Apollo Ohno from Seattle?

Ehh, I think that seattle rain thing comes from the grunge era... it was part of the seattle image that was promoted to sell records, it seems like... The actual annual rainfall of seattle is less that a lot of US cities. It tends to sprinkle a bit everyday, but not enough to carry an umbrella. As a matter of fact, I've never owned an umbrella in my life.

Here's an interesting article http://www.livescience.com/environment/070518_rainy_cities.html

 

[seraph524]

Ehh, I think that seattle rain thing comes from the grunge era... it was part of the seattle image that was promoted to sell records, it seems like... The actual annual rainfall of seattle is less that a lot of US cities. It tends to sprinkle a bit everyday, but not enough to carry an umbrella. As a matter of fact, I've never owned an umbrella in my life.

Here's an interesting article http://www.livescience.com/environment/070518_rainy_cities.html

Ahh...gotcha... It might be nice to experience a quick rainfall everyday...it always smells nice and fresh after

 

[Sinfekl]

Does anyone have concerns regarding St. Louis' safety? It's one of the most dangerous cities in the US, up there with Detroit and Baltimore (if not ahead of them, per capita), no?

Also, I think the poll results might be a bit skewed by the vast size of St. Louis' program, a lot of people who actually go there might have voted. They're both great programs, you really can't go wrong. I don't think it's really a 2-1 margin like the poll suggests.

 

[seraph524]

WashU is not in St. Louis proper though...

 

[solumanculver]

Also, I think the poll results might be a bit skewed by the vast size of St. Louis' program, a lot of people who actually go there might have voted. They're both great programs, you really can't go wrong. I don't think it's really a 2-1 margin like the poll suggests.

Ahhhh, that must be it. That program is enormous... nobody wants to vote against their own school.

 

[QofQuimica]

Does anyone have concerns regarding St. Louis' safety? It's one of the most dangerous cities in the US, up there with Detroit and Baltimore (if not ahead of them, per capita), no?

Also, I think the poll results might be a bit skewed by the vast size of St. Louis' program, a lot of people who actually go there might have voted. They're both great programs, you really can't go wrong. I don't think it's really a 2-1 margin like the poll suggests.

I always have concerns regarding safety no matter where I go, particularly in large cities late at night. St. Louis was no exception. However, I would not say that the area around the Wash U campus struck me as being scarier than the areas around the other urban medical school campuses that I visited. One should certainly be mindful that it's an urban environment and take appropriate precautions, but that's true in any city.

For the record, I have never attended Wash U, nor ever even been there except for my interviews two years ago. I just thought the school has tremendously impressive hospital and research facilities. 🙂

 

[Mr. Tee]

Does anyone have concerns regarding St. Louis' safety? It's one of the most dangerous cities in the US, up there with Detroit and Baltimore (if not ahead of them, per capita), no?

Crime occurs in pockets, not uniformly throughout the whole city. Fortunately, the crime hot spots are not where Wash U med is 😉

 

[vector07]

Does anyone have concerns regarding St. Louis' safety? It's one of the most dangerous cities in the US, up there with Detroit and Baltimore (if not ahead of them, per capita), no?

I *think* St. Louis dropped behind Detroit, Flint, New Orleans and and Baltimore this year. yay! a 3 rank improvement!

Seriously though, St. Louis is a strange (and sad) city in terms of layout. First, there is St. Louis (city) and St. Louis County. The city pretty much only encompasses East. St. Louis (SCARY!) and then ~5 miles west of the Mississipi river. The northern part of this area is also scary, and very sad too--it's many square miles of impoverished neighborhoods.

On the south side, there are some interesting neighborhoods. There's Soulard, which is either a French or German neighborhood (Octoberfest is held there AND the 2nd biggest Mardi Gras in the country--*shrug*). Then a bit west of that is an Italian neighborhood. AMAZING food, there are some restaurants that rival the best in the country. In Soulard and the Italian neighborhood, it's relatively safe.

And then on the very western edge of the city is WashU med campus, sitting right next to Forest Park and the Central West End (CWE) neighborhood. The CWE is a trendy/yuppy little area, and that's where you'll live if you come here. 🙂 It's filled with bars and restaurants and apartment complexes. Do you want to walk around alone at 3am carrying a laptop case? Probably not. But that's just being smart.

Besides that, there is St. Louis County, which is the rest of the city. It's not included in the crime reports. So basically all the crime that happens is in the not-so-safe St. Louis city parts, and all the happy-joyful suburban life is in the county. So the crime LOOKS far worse than it is. I think if you average it out, St. Louis is no better or worse than most major american cities.

 

[Sinfekl]

Ahhhh, that must be it. That program is enormous... nobody wants to vote against their own school.

As evidenced by the three people immediately willing to jump in and answer my safety question. Thanks to all you guys though, I think that will help a lot of applicants.