The Future of Healthcare

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TheTickets

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There was a similar post to this several years ago but I thought I would ask again as there appears a big change is coming.

Does the uncertainty or the future of health care effect your decisions to pursue medicine?

I just thought I would get an opinion on this since things are crazy right now.

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no.

Just as an aside:

AAAS Policy Alert -- February 25, 2009

"The National Institutes of Health last week released general guidelines about how it would spend the $10.4 billion it received as part of the economic stimulus package. Most of the funding will go toward two-year projects and will fall into in three categories (all of which will have been peer-reviewed before funding): research grants that have already been approved for funding but have not received funds; supplements to existing grants; and new "NIH Challenge Grants," which would represent important and/or cross-cutting areas of research. The tally also included $1 billion for extramural research facilities, $500 million for intramural facilities, $300 for shared instrumentation, and $400 million for research to compare the effectiveness of medical treatments."

I thought that was interesting and uplifting.

Now...LET THE FIGHT BEGIN!
 
There was a similar post to this several years ago but I thought I would ask again as there appears a big change is coming.

Does the uncertainty or the future of health care effect your decisions to pursue medicine?

I just thought I would get an opinion on this since things are crazy right now.

One thing i worry about the most is being one of the classes that gets caught in the limbo of having the high debt of today with the low reimbursements of tomorrow.
 
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I think healthcare is going to chage a lot over the next decade. With the new healthcare reform that is going to be worked on for a good year or so, we will see a reemphasis on preventive medicine. Therefore, fields that deal with preventive medicine are going to see a reemphasis by the goverment.

You will soon be seeing newborns having their genome sequenced, stem cells stored from the umbilical cord (leads to great outcomes for later health problems) for later transplantations, new nanomedicine treatment options, new vaccines to cure flues, new tests to test for which bacteria is causing the illness, and a lot of new improvements.

Some fields that are lucrative right now will no longer be (sory derm) and some fields that are not currently lucrative will become lucrative. If a pre-med wants to make sure that they DO end up making a lot of money, you will need to become one of the higher level suregons, sorry. All other fields are going to evolve by taking away stuff from other fields and some fields that are currently competitive with the residency match will no longer be.

If the only way to make a lot of money is by going into general surgery or the like, those fields will become the most competitive again and the fields that are currently competitive that show a decrease in the end salary will not be as competitive.

I don't think any fields is going to become totally obsolete, but some current skills will no longer be needed as treatment for conditions improve, new technology is developed, and so forth.

We will have a better idea of what the near future of healthcare will be like when the new healthcare reform takes shape. Do note that the new healthcare reform is NOT going to focus on expansion, but instead focus on cost cutting.

Edit: "Whatever Congress does, the documents said, "must put the United States on a clear path to cover all Americans." Obama has called on Congress to send him a health care reform bill this year." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/obama_budget

My state already passed healthcare coverage for all children.
 
oh no, not again.

What are you talking about? Pre-meds are woefully ignorant about healthcare. Which is just plain stupid if you wanna be a doctor.

The three top questions are

1. Is school x better than school Y
2. I got a C am I gonna burst into flames
3. Something else about freaking out about something
 
My psychic ability is kicking in...I foresee the future of this thread

Pre_med1: I think healthcare will be ok, because...blah blah blah

Pre_med2: You are a complete idiot Pre_med1, because healthcare will not be ok, doctors will be paid nothing and america will into a socialist country....blah blah blah

Pre_med1: But you totally missed my point! I meant to say...blah blah

Pre_med3: I agree with the above 👍

Pre_med2: You guys have no idea what you are talking about! You have no idea about anything in healthcare, you ignoramus

Pre_med1: No...NO! YOU have no idea! You are the idiot

Pre_med3: I agree with the above 👍

Pre_med2: Ugh...you totally missed my point...you are the idiot, because...blah blah blah

GutShot: All pre-meds are ignorant children, if you go into medicine you will ruin your life and be bitter for the rest of your life, but you are too stupid to understand that concept anyways

Pre_med3L I agree with the above 👍
 
What are you talking about? Pre-meds are woefully ignorant about healthcare. Which is just plain stupid if you wanna be a doctor.

The three top questions are

1. Is school x better than school Y
2. I got a C am I gonna burst into flames
3. Something else about freaking out about something

1. John Hopkins or Harvard, everything else isn't worth it.
2. I believe adcoms for African medical schools allow one B+ and most use it for Analytical Biochemistry, or Advanced Calculus.
3. Health care is swirling in the drain. People should look into being a stock broker, real estate agent, or Airline Pilot. Plenty of spots there.

:meanie:
 
What are you talking about? Pre-meds are woefully ignorant about healthcare. Which is just plain stupid if you wanna be a doctor.

I am talking about what all of these threads turn into and inevitably get moved to the sociopolitical forum. Irony is you actually started it in the post I quoted. This situation is explained in the following post.

My psychic ability is kicking in...I foresee the future of this thread

Pre_med1: I think healthcare will be ok, because...blah blah blah

Pre_med2: You are a complete idiot Pre_med1, because healthcare will not be ok, doctors will be paid nothing and america will into a socialist country....blah blah blah

Pre_med1: But you totally missed my point! I meant to say...blah blah

Pre_med3: I agree with the above 👍

Pre_med2: You guys have no idea what you are talking about! You have no idea about anything in healthcare, you ignoramus

Pre_med1: No...NO! YOU have no idea! You are the idiot

Pre_med3: I agree with the above 👍

Pre_med2: Ugh...you totally missed my point...you are the idiot, because...blah blah blah

GutShot: All pre-meds are ignorant children, if you go into medicine you will ruin your life and be bitter for the rest of your life, but you are too stupid to understand that concept anyways

Pre_med3L I agree with the above 👍
 
My psychic ability is kicking in...I foresee the future of this thread

Pre_med1: I think healthcare will be ok, because...blah blah blah

Pre_med2: You are a complete idiot Pre_med1, because healthcare will not be ok, doctors will be paid nothing and america will into a socialist country....blah blah blah

Pre_med1: But you totally missed my point! I meant to say...blah blah

Pre_med3: I agree with the above 👍

Pre_med2: You guys have no idea what you are talking about! You have no idea about anything in healthcare, you ignoramus

Pre_med1: No...NO! YOU have no idea! You are the idiot

Pre_med3: I agree with the above 👍

Pre_med2: Ugh...you totally missed my point...you are the idiot, because...blah blah blah

GutShot: All pre-meds are ignorant children, if you go into medicine you will ruin your life and be bitter for the rest of your life, but you are too stupid to understand that concept anyways

Pre_med3L I agree with the above 👍

lmao A typical thread on SDN about health care 🤣:diebanana:
 
I am talking about what all of these threads turn into and inevitably get moved to the sociopolitical forum. Irony is you actually started it in the post I quoted. This situation is explained in the following post.

soooo....shotty being Pre_med 3!😀
 
GutShot: All pre-meds are ignorant children, if you go into medicine you will ruin your life and be bitter for the rest of your life, but you are too stupid to understand that concept anyways

Hmmm, interesting. While I haven't always been the most positive person in general, I don't think I've fallen into the ruin camp. If anything, I have argued against the ruination whenever possible. At least, I think I have. In fact, in multiple responses to Panda Bear threads, I have stated that I am very happy with my choice to pursue medicine.
 
Hmmm, interesting. While I haven't always been the most positive person in general, I don't think I've fallen into the ruin camp. If anything, I have argued against the ruination whenever possible. At least, I think I have. In fact, in multiple responses to Panda Bear threads, I have stated that I am very happy with my choice to pursue medicine.

Maybe I got the wrong impression? My apologies if that was the case.
 
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The Future of Medicine:

An increasing number of unhealthy, lazy, multiply comorbid, entitled patients demanding more and more of the medical system while at the same time demanding that somebody else pay for it.

Increasing "medicalization" of every aspect of life leading to a third of the population being on some form of disability.

"Dumbing down" of the medical profession as a natural impulse of the government to produce a large body of barely adequate mid-level providers who can be dominated by the bureaucracy, transforming medicine from an interaction between a physician and a patient into a complicated menage a trois with the goverment as the dominant partner dictating through regulations and "guidelines" every aspect of patient care.

"Covert" rationing of medical care by an increasingly byzantine set of rules and regulations, delays in payments, and decreased reimbursment to physicians.

A continuation of the complete lack of common sense that permeates every level of the system

Not one chance in a million for serious medical malpractice reform as long as The Annointed One (PBUHHN) is in office.
 
The Future of Medicine:

An increasing number of unhealthy, lazy, multiply comorbid, entitled patients demanding more and more of the medical system while at the same time demanding that somebody else pay for it.

Increasing "medicalization" of every aspect of life leading to a third of the population being on some form of disability.

"Dumbing down" of the medical profession as a natural impulse of the government to produce a large body of barely adequate mid-level providers who can be dominated by the bureaucracy, transforming medicine from an interaction between a physician and a patient into a complicated menage a trois with the goverment as the dominant partner dictating through regulations and "guidelines" every aspect of patient care.

"Covert" rationing of medical care by an increasingly byzantine set of rules and regulations, delays in payments, and decreased reimbursment to physicians.

A continuation of the complete lack of common sense that permeates every level of the system

Not one chance in a million for serious medical malpractice reform as long as The Annointed One (PBUHHN) is in office.

Ahh...pre_med2...now, who wants to be Pre_med1? Any takers? How about Pre_med3...he has the easy parts....

....come on, it'll be fun!
 
The Future of Medicine:

An increasing number of unhealthy, lazy, multiply comorbid, entitled patients demanding more and more of the medical system while at the same time demanding that somebody else pay for it.

Increasing "medicalization" of every aspect of life leading to a third of the population being on some form of disability.

"Dumbing down" of the medical profession as a natural impulse of the government to produce a large body of barely adequate mid-level providers who can be dominated by the bureaucracy, transforming medicine from an interaction between a physician and a patient into a complicated menage a trois with the goverment as the dominant partner dictating through regulations and "guidelines" every aspect of patient care.

"Covert" rationing of medical care by an increasingly byzantine set of rules and regulations, delays in payments, and decreased reimbursment to physicians.

A continuation of the complete lack of common sense that permeates every level of the system

Not one chance in a million for serious medical malpractice reform as long as The Annointed One (PBUHHN) is in office.

I agree with the above👍
 
The Future of Medicine:

"Dumbing down" of the medical profession as a natural impulse of the government to produce a large body of barely adequate mid-level providers who can be dominated by the bureaucracy, transforming medicine from an interaction between a physician and a patient into a complicated menage a trois with the goverment as the dominant partner dictating through regulations and "guidelines" every aspect of patient care.
The government is not the only party at fault here - do not forget the real players here, the corporations that employ the doctors. The "dumbing down" you describe has already happened due to the control of the managed care organizations like Kaiser Permanente and the like. Such HMOs and PPOs have only a frank, unapologetic concern for their shareholders and making profits at the expense of MD's, nurses and patients. Just google the latest scandal discovered by the government that of all of the HMOs in the country were conspiring to keep reimubursement rates lower than actual costs. Of course, the private sector of medicine is not the only one destroyed by this "covert rationing".

In addition medicare and medicaid have been "hired out" to private subcontractors, because someone has deluded the American consciousness that private businesses are more efficient than the government. Meanwhile these more efficient private medicare subcontractors are profit making machines for their shareholders and CEOs (as any other business). This allows for over a third of the medicare (etc) budget, financed by the tax-payers, our money, to be bled into the pockets of the shareholders. This leaves our poorest mothers and their children, as well as our elderly to fight over the left-overs, while our wise political leaders just shrug and say, well, there is just not enough money for universal medicine.

Even the poorest European countries have universal healthcare and manage to provide care to everyone who needs it, regardless of ability to pay. Countries like Serbia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania, Hungary, we're not talking even France or Germany. It is outrageous that we have allowed our health-care system to become high-jacked by the interest of the shareholders at the expense of medical care. It is also outrageous to say that USA, the richest country in the world, does not have enough money to provide a basic human right.

The reason why we need the government involved in the healthcare business is to oversee that HMOs and subcontractors are actually not leaving people without medical treatment and throwing them out on the street because they do not have insurance. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/may/16/local/me-dumping16 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5298034
Just like the catastrophy with the banking industry and the subprime mortgages, the rampant greed and unquestioned power of the insurance companies and their like has to be brought to an end (doubtful despite the best intentions of our pres) before they bleed us to death. That is why we need the government - to protect our interests, because as we see, the "free market" has no interest in protecting our interests.
 
The government is not the only party at fault here - do not forget the real players here, the corporations that employ the doctors. The "dumbing down" you describe has already happened due to the control of the managed care organizations like Kaiser Permanente and the like. Such HMOs and PPOs have only a frank, unapologetic concern for their shareholders and making profits at the expense of MD's, nurses and patients. Just google the latest scandal discovered by the government that of all of the HMOs in the country were conspiring to keep reimubursement rates lower than actual costs. Of course, the private sector of medicine is not the only one destroyed by this "covert rationing".

In addition medicare and medicaid have been "hired out" to private subcontractors, because someone has deluded the American consciousness that private businesses are more efficient than the government. Meanwhile these more efficient private medicare subcontractors are profit making machines for their shareholders and CEOs (as any other business). This allows for over a third of the medicare (etc) budget, financed by the tax-payers, our money, to be bled into the pockets of the shareholders. This leaves our poorest mothers and their children, as well as our elderly to fight over the left-overs, while our wise political leaders just shrug and say, well, there is just not enough money for universal medicine.

Even the poorest European countries have universal healthcare and manage to provide care to everyone who needs it, regardless of ability to pay. Countries like Serbia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania, Hungary, we're not talking even France or Germany. It is outrageous that we have allowed our health-care system to become high-jacked by the interest of the shareholders at the expense of medical care. It is also outrageous to say that USA, the richest country in the world, does not have enough money to provide a basic human right.

The reason why we need the government involved in the healthcare business is to oversee that HMOs and subcontractors are actually not leaving people without medical treatment and throwing them out on the street because they do not have insurance. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/may/16/local/me-dumping16 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5298034
Just like the catastrophy with the banking industry and the subprime mortgages, the rampant greed and unquestioned power of the insurance companies and their like has to be brought to an end (doubtful despite the best intentions of our pres) before they bleed us to death. That is why we need the government - to protect our interests, because as we see, the "free market" has no interest in protecting our interests.

Wrong on so many levels.

First of all, every European nation is also going bankrupt from financing their lavish social welfare benefits of which medical care is only the most expensive. Second, many inhabitants of the EU receive care that would be considered substandard in the United States if they rely on the pubic health system. Greece comes to mind, a European country where the public hospitals and doctors have to be routinely bribed to provide "free care" for things that are no-brainers over here.

Additionally, government is hugely inefficient at every level and has no more interest in paying money for your medical care than does an HMO or an insurance company. An insurance company produces flashy commercials to convince you otherwise while the government just tells you what you want to here and either destroys the productive sector paying for all of your freebies or covertly rations where required.
 
Here we go...sorry I lost track of who is Premed1/2/3...

Gutshot or Panda...your parts are coming up...
 
My state already passed healthcare coverage for all children.

Hooray! Now nobody ever has to decide between their cigarettes or their children's four-dollar antibiotic.

Dude, CHIPs is one of the biggest frauds in the history of this country and is a waste of hundreds of billions of dollars to make sure that the vast majority of children who it covers are over-doctored, over-medicated, and have parents who are free from any responsibility whatsoever to pay the slightest amount for any of their children's even trivial or routine health care. It is a program that has launched a thousand "Children's Hospitals" and "Pediatric Emergency Departments" to suck up that vast pool of public money suddenly made available to them. My medical school was so eager to put a nose to the trough that they demarcated a floor of the hospital as a "Children's" hospital while they feverishly built a new building. Couldn't let any of that money get away.

This is an example, by the way, of the corrupting influence of "free" money, money that can be disbursed with no discipline and no restraint traditionally enforced a free market. In other words, would you take your kid into the doctor every time he got a little fever if you had to pay fifty bucks for the privilege? Probably not.

Unfortunately, we now have the perfect storm of an ignorant, completely clueless public and like-minded, short-sighted government intent on securing political power at any cost.
 
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Wrong on so many levels.

First of all, every European nation is also going bankrupt from financing their lavish social welfare benefits of which medical care is only the most expensive. Second, many inhabitants of the EU receive care that would be considered substandard in the United States if they rely on the pubic health system. Greece comes to mind, a European country where the public hospitals and doctors have to be routinely bribed to provide "free care" for things that are no-brainers over here.

Get your facts straight - you're not talking about a "healthy" European country, you're talking about Greece - a country bankrupted by the communists, corruption and organized crime. The comparison of standard of care is unfair. And even they provide universal healthcare. I will not argue that their standard of care is lower, they are a poor country, but at the very least they don't have 40 mill uninsured and a lack of concern for the poor and elderly like us in the good ol' USA. I am not saying we should do everything like the EU. I am just saying we can do it better than the Greek! (Sorry Hippocrates) We are the United States for god's sakes.
 
Get your facts straight - you're not talking about a "healthy" European country, you're talking about Greece - a country bankrupted by the communists, corruption and organized crime. The comparison of standard of care is unfair. And even they provide universal healthcare. I will not argue that their standard of care is lower, they are a poor country, but at the very least they don't have 40 mill uninsured and a lack of concern for the poor and elderly like us in the good ol' USA. I am not saying we should do everything like the EU. I am just saying we can do it better than the Greek! (Sorry Hippocrates) We are the United States for god's sakes.

Whoa. Greece was bankrupted by PASOK (the Panhellenic Socialist Party) who took over in the early eighties. Additionally, the Greek government is no more or less corrupt than any other in Europe and I don't know what you mean by the "Organized Crime" angle. Greece is bankrupt because one in three working Greeks have government jobs, most of which are of the paper-pushing and useless variety in various redundant and superfluous ministries, and because they cannot afford to pay for the lavish social welfare which the socialists promised to their citizens.

That's all there is to it.

Everybody in Greece is insured but that doesn't mean much. In Greece, which is not a poor country by the way, the poor rot waiting for medical treatment in the public hospitals, the conditions of which are a national scandal and a disgrace.

Additionally, the current preoccupation of every European country is paying for thier entitlements with a shrinking productive sector and an increasing "feeloader" population. You don't really follow the news, do you?
 
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Get your facts straight - you're not talking about a "healthy" European country, you're talking about Greece - a country bankrupted by the communists, corruption and organized crime. The comparison of standard of care is unfair. And even they provide universal healthcare. I will not argue that their standard of care is lower, they are a poor country, but at the very least they don't have 40 mill uninsured and a lack of concern for the poor and elderly like us in the good ol' USA. I am not saying we should do everything like the EU. I am just saying we can do it better than the Greek! (Sorry Hippocrates) We are the United States for god's sakes.


There are no healthy European nations. They are all, like the United States, teetering on the edge of economic catastrophe, a situation that is in large part the result of out-of-control spending on entitlements. Even before the current economic collapse countries like the UK and France were struggling to pay for their social spending.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7857814.stm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090203/ts_nm/us_financial_9
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/european-economic-woes-deepen/408357/
 
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Here we go...sorry I lost track of who is Premed1/2/3...

Gutshot or Panda...your parts are coming up...

Panda is going to have to take this one. I'm happy on the sidelines.

[YOUTUBE]gnPsZg38WKw[/YOUTUBE]
 
I think the reason that these debates always turn this way is that it's typically extremists who respond to them. There's inevitably going to be someone worshiping at the altar of the free market without ever realizing that what they're spewing is essentially dogma, and someone who's so idealistic about health care for everyone that they refuse to acknowledge the difficulties and pitfalls that come with trying to implement such a plan. No matter how assiduously and passionately you argue, saying "that's all there is to it" doesn't make it simple. It's a much more complex issue than either side is typically willing to admit.

What I think most people CAN agree on is that the problem is systemic; the health care system, as it's set up now, is failing. Some sort of significant reform is obviously needed. I happen to think that a major cause of the broken system is the fact that almost all of the political bargaining power is in the hands of insurance companies - hospitals and doctors don't have a particularly powerful coalition or lobby, and there's obviously no "patients lobby" or anything of the sort. Whatever new system is put in place most likely needs to amend that imbalance somehow.

There's obviously a lot more to it than that, and I'm far from an expert, but I figured that maybe we could start a discussion that goes beyond the Yes-it-is-No-it-isn't level.
 
Hooray! Now nobody ever has to decide between their cigarettes or their children's four-dollar antibiotic.

You probably would have been better served to substitute cigarettes with dessert, magazine, movie rental, or any number of other items that are not extremely addictive (and that are not taxed to fund the program you are denouncing).

Unfortunately poor parents exist but it is disappointing to see someone arguing that children, who do not choose their parents or socioeconomic status, should be forced to bear the consequences.

Why not rail on a pair of wars that according to the Congressional Budget Office will, by 2017, have cost 1.2 to 1.7 Trillion dollars?

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/86xx/doc8690/10-24-CostOfWar_Testimony.pdf
 
What I think most people CAN agree on is that the problem is systemic; the health care system, as it's set up now, is failing. Some sort of significant reform is obviously needed. I happen to think that a major cause of the broken system is the fact that almost all of the political bargaining power is in the hands of insurance companies - hospitals and doctors don't have a particularly powerful coalition or lobby, and there's obviously no "patients lobby" or anything of the sort. Whatever new system is put in place most likely needs to amend that imbalance somehow.

I think that you are really getting at a large part of the problem here because the legislative system is currently quite biased towards large scale lobbying. Compounding the problem is that the corporations wielding the lobbying power have a legal responsibility to produce the largest possible profit. The Board of an HMO could and likely would be sued by their shareholders if they began sacrificing profits for overall health. Corporations dealing in healthcare have to walk a tightrope of paying for enough care to make sure that customers stay but not too much that the bottom line takes a major hit.

The bottom line is that we cannot expect corporations to spontaneously increase their level of social responsibility. Probably the best solution is to increase the awareness of the population. A more aware population with an increased ability to switch between providers will probably go a long way towards syncing up profit and health.
 
I think that you are really getting at a large part of the problem here because the legislative system is currently quite biased towards large scale lobbying. Compounding the problem is that the corporations wielding the lobbying power have a legal responsibility to produce the largest possible profit. The Board of an HMO could and likely would be sued by their shareholders if they began sacrificing profits for overall health. Corporations dealing in healthcare have to walk a tightrope of paying for enough care to make sure that customers stay but not too much that the bottom line takes a major hit.

The bottom line is that we cannot expect corporations to spontaneously increase their level of social responsibility. Probably the best solution is to increase the awareness of the population. A more aware population with an increased ability to switch between providers will probably go a long way towards syncing up profit and health.

This is exactly y I think these arguments are so important. As pre-meds we are gonna be the future and these changes are gonna affect us and our patients the most. Its up to us to lobby for changes to the system. The golden days of medicine are over, but before medicine becomes bureaucrats and politicians deciding what patients receive, we have to at least try to change the system for the better. Otherwise political bs will eat up everything.
 
Even the poorest European countries have universal healthcare and manage to provide care to everyone who needs it, regardless of ability to pay. Countries like Serbia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania, Hungary, we're not talking even France or Germany. It is outrageous that we have allowed our health-care system to become high-jacked by the interest of the shareholders at the expense of medical care. It is also outrageous to say that USA, the richest country in the world, does not have enough money to provide a basic human right.

I LOL'ed at that part.
 
I think the reason that these debates always turn this way is that it's typically extremists who respond to them. There's inevitably going to be someone worshiping at the altar of the free market without ever realizing that what they're spewing is essentially dogma, and someone who's so idealistic about health care for everyone that they refuse to acknowledge the difficulties and pitfalls that come with trying to implement such a plan. No matter how assiduously and passionately you argue, saying "that's all there is to it" doesn't make it simple. It's a much more complex issue than either side is typically willing to admit.

What I think most people CAN agree on is that the problem is systemic; the health care system, as it's set up now, is failing. Some sort of significant reform is obviously needed. I happen to think that a major cause of the broken system is the fact that almost all of the political bargaining power is in the hands of insurance companies - hospitals and doctors don't have a particularly powerful coalition or lobby, and there's obviously no "patients lobby" or anything of the sort. Whatever new system is put in place most likely needs to amend that imbalance somehow.

There's obviously a lot more to it than that, and I'm far from an expert, but I figured that maybe we could start a discussion that goes beyond the Yes-it-is-No-it-isn't level.

I think you have a great point here. In fact, right about the time of the birth of the HMO, in the late 1970s, the Supreme Court decided the antitrust laws should apply to “professionals” such as lawyers and physicians. That means that in the US, physicians are not allowed to form labor unions or lobbying organizations, which we could use to potentially bargain with managed care organizations or the gov't for ourselves or our patients. We are bound by the FTC (Federal Trade Organization) rules. Don't know much about it, except that. I am currently doing some research on it.

http://www.ftc.gov/bc/healthcare/antitrust/index.htm
 
You probably would have been better served to substitute cigarettes with dessert, magazine, movie rental, or any number of other items that are not extremely addictive (and that are not taxed to fund the program you are denouncing).

Unfortunately poor parents exist but it is disappointing to see someone arguing that children, who do not choose their parents or socioeconomic status, should be forced to bear the consequences.

Why not rail on a pair of wars that according to the Congressional Budget Office will, by 2017, have cost 1.2 to 1.7 Trillion dollars?

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/86xx/doc8690/10-24-CostOfWar_Testimony.pdf

If you look, the income cutoffs for CHIPs are actually fairly high, well into the range where maybe you and I shouldn't be paying for routine medical expenses for people who can afford them.

And I don't give a rip about "children," at least not the in the weepy, knee-jerky, reflexive way that is expected of everybody today. Wasted money is wasted money and bringing your kid to the Emergency Department at 3AM for a little cough and then insisting, after Medicaid pays $300 for the visit, on a prescription for children's Motrin so you don't have to dig into your beer money to pay for it over-the-counter, is an abuse of the system. To fail to curtail this kind of spending out of sympathy for "The Children" is to submit to societal blackmail, no different than if the parent held a gun to the kids head and demanded money.

Another thing you will find out is that most of the money spent on medical care is absolutely wasted and unnecessary. This includes most doctor's visits, a good proportion of procedures, most tests and imaging studies, and every manner of consult you can think of. Hard to believe when you are naive pre-med but it's the truth and the goal of the government and society should be, and this is the real trick, to spend less and do less...something we could do and probably improve the aggregate health of the nation.
 
Another thing you will find out is that most of the money spent on medical care is absolutely wasted and unnecessary. This includes most doctor's visits, a good proportion of procedures, most tests and imaging studies, and every manner of consult you can think of. Hard to believe when you are naive pre-med but it's the truth and the goal of the government and society should be, and this is the real trick, to spend less and do less...something we could do and probably improve the aggregate health of the nation.

I guess we can thank CYA medicine and people abusing the system for that. To bad politicians dont ask WHY we have problems.
 
lots of uncertainty in the future of health care, that's why everyone is so anxious. Now that I think about it, there is lots of uncertainty in just about everything with the way this economy is, the new leadership, etc.
 
Get your facts straight - a lack of concern for the poor and elderly like us in the good ol' USA. quote]

We have medicaid for the poor, which in California at least, will even cover cosmetic procedures like dental braces. We have medicare for the elderly. How does this reflect a lack of concern for the poor and elderly? If anyone is getting shafted in this country, it's the small business owners and middle class whose tax dollars actually pay for these programs but are denied coverage themselves.
 
Get your facts straight - a lack of concern for the poor and elderly like us in the good ol' USA.
We have medicaid for the poor, which in California at least, will even cover cosmetic procedures like dental braces. We have medicare for the elderly. How does this reflect a lack of concern for the poor and elderly? If anyone is getting shafted in this country, it's the small business owners and middle class whose tax dollars actually pay for these programs but are denied coverage themselves.

I was just about to say that. 👍
 
To fail to curtail this kind of spending out of sympathy for "The Children" is to submit to societal blackmail, no different than if the parent held a gun to the kids head and demanded money.

That is an overstatement bordering on the ridiculous and it demeans what should be a more dignified discussion. This thread should be a good opportunity to discuss options for healthcare not practice Rush Limbaugh impressions.
 
US Healthcare in the future will likely be organized into two tiers: public and private one.

Public sector will consist of monopsonistic meta-HMO, akin to Medicare on steroids, which will provide basic access to all. Those will be the hospitals with 9 month waiting period for elective surgery, crowded doctors' offices, salaried doctors, inflexible and basic healthplans with low deductibles. Kind of like VA now, but worse. This system will be under state of permanent reform and will be from time to time given federal 'stimulus' money, which will subsequently disappear into abyss without any improvement Any politician who tries to overhaul the system will crash and burn.

Private sector will arise to fill in the niches that are left. It will cater to those willing to pay extra to have better access, quality, and quantity. It will not simply mean cosmetics. It will mean doctor owned and run hospitals, private insurance plans providing customized plans, self-employed doctors, medical experts with rare, marketable skills. It will encompass parts of academia. It will likely include those specialties which are in high demand. Most of innovations will come from private sector. Doctors will work harder, be better, and will make more in private sector.
 
US Healthcare in the future will likely be organized into two tiers: public and private one.

Congratulations, you have discovered the Australian health care system.
 
Does anyone else feel that the source of America's healthcare problems actually are the result of the American lifestyle?

It is ingrained in the American culture to constantly eat high-fat, high-carbohydrate food. How many moms buy their kids those frozen fried chicken strips, hot dogs, Sunny D and soda, instead of buying actual food such as fruits and vegetables, and leaner sources of protein? 60 years ago, people ate a lot more healthily, as there were not many processed foods back then.

Nowadays, grocery manufacturers pump out these processed, ready-to-go foods and market them towards parents for their kids. The problem is, there is a definite lack of nutrients and an excessive amount of saturated fat and empty calories. This mentality towards food is hard to break and that's why you see so many young people eat all these pizzas and fast food. I think people genuinely understand that it is unhealthy, but they do not believe disease will happen to them.

Ever wonder why at a friend's house, or at a social gathering, it is always potato chips, or some kind of high-fat Mexican dip, or hot wings, or some other such thing that is served? It's rarely something remotely healthy, yet I would argue that a fruit like a strawberry has much more flavor and is more satisfying than a handful of potato chips. It is puzzling to me why people love to eat these fried foods -- foods that are high in fat and high in empty calories. Another thing that is baffling is the consumption of juice-like drinks, like Sunny D and V-8 Splash. Why not just drink juice? It tastes much better and doesn't contain HFCS, which is the most unhealthy zero-fat substance known to man. Plus, you get so many more vitamins and nutrients and anti-carcinogenic compounds in actual juice.

It also puzzles me how a culture that is in love with sports also hates to actually do exercise. It is not considered "cool" to go for a run or swimming or whatever. It's more desirable to watch American Idol or play Call of Duty than it is to take 30 minutes to get some exercise.

All of these things directly correlate to an instance of high rates of disease. I would wager diseases that result in early deaths of Americans are largely preventable by a healthy lifestyle. It does not matter how much the American government tinkers with the healthcare system. As long as the culture dictates that Americans will be fat or diabetic, the healthcare system will fail, no matter what policy changes it takes on. I saw on the news that 67% of American adults are overweight. Disgusting.
 
That is an overstatement bordering on the ridiculous and it demeans what should be a more dignified discussion. This thread should be a good opportunity to discuss options for healthcare not practice Rush Limbaugh impressions.

And yet, this is exactly the kind of threat leveled against the taxpayer vis-a-vis providing free medical care to The Great and Holy Unwashed and Underserved; namely, that if we don't pay for their medical care now they will totally neglect their own health now and cost us twenty times as much later in their lives. If that's not societal blackmail, I don't know what is. It's kind of like a mugging in the sense that if we give the mugger twenty bucks in our wallet he won't hurt us.

You, my friend, have swallowed the Koolaid with gusto and believe with a religious fervor all the lies told to you about The Great and Holy Unwashed and Underserved.

Oh, and I have had parents threaten to make their children go without their Motrin or Tylenol if I didn't write them a prescription for it. Note that it wasn't a, "I can't afford it," it was on all occasions, "I've got Medicaid and I shouldn't have to pay for it."

On principle I almost never write prescriptions for cheap over-the-counter medications and also have noted with interest that no matter how expensive it is, patients will always fill their narcotic prescriptions which leads to the usual conversation:

"Why didn't you fill your prescription for those cheap blood pressure pills?"

"I couldn't afford them."

"So how did you get the money for your Percocet?"

"my sister gave it to me."

"Couldn't she give you some money for your blood pressure pills?"



(HCTZ: 10 bucks a month)
 
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Does anyone else feel that the source of America's healthcare problems actually are the result of the American lifestyle?

It is ingrained in the American culture to constantly eat high-fat, high-carbohydrate food. How many moms buy their kids those frozen fried chicken strips, hot dogs, Sunny D and soda, instead of buying actual food such as fruits and vegetables, and leaner sources of protein? 60 years ago, people ate a lot more healthily, as there were not many processed foods back then.

Nowadays, grocery manufacturers pump out these processed, ready-to-go foods and market them towards parents for their kids. The problem is, there is a definite lack of nutrients and an excessive amount of saturated fat and empty calories. This mentality towards food is hard to break and that's why you see so many young people eat all these pizzas and fast food. I think people genuinely understand that it is unhealthy, but they do not believe disease will happen to them.

Ever wonder why at a friend's house, or at a social gathering, it is always potato chips, or some kind of high-fat Mexican dip, or hot wings, or some other such thing that is served? It's rarely something remotely healthy, yet I would argue that a fruit like a strawberry has much more flavor and is more satisfying than a handful of potato chips. It is puzzling to me why people love to eat these fried foods -- foods that are high in fat and high in empty calories. Another thing that is baffling is the consumption of juice-like drinks, like Sunny D and V-8 Splash. Why not just drink juice? It tastes much better and doesn't contain HFCS, which is the most unhealthy zero-fat substance known to man. Plus, you get so many more vitamins and nutrients and anti-carcinogenic compounds in actual juice.

It also puzzles me how a culture that is in love with sports also hates to actually do exercise. It is not considered "cool" to go for a run or swimming or whatever. It's more desirable to watch American Idol or play Call of Duty than it is to take 30 minutes to get some exercise.

All of these things directly correlate to an instance of high rates of disease. I would wager diseases that result in early deaths of Americans are largely preventable by a healthy lifestyle. It does not matter how much the American government tinkers with the healthcare system. As long as the culture dictates that Americans will be fat or diabetic, the healthcare system will fail, no matter what policy changes it takes on. I saw on the news that 67% of American adults are overweight. Disgusting.

Dude, a nice, rare, fatty steak and french fries tastes ten times better than the freshest vegetable.
 
Dude, a nice, rare, fatty steak and french fries tastes ten times better than the freshest vegetable.

OK, a steak does taste really good, but french fries do not taste good at all after you've stopped eating fried foods for a week or two.

I guarantee if you completely cut out grease from your diet, a french fry will not be appealing to you in the least.

A more appealing meal than the one you described would be a rare t-bone with steamed broccoli and carrots.
 
OK, a steak does taste really good, but french fries do not taste good at all after you've stopped eating fried foods for a week or two.

I guarantee if you completely cut out grease from your diet, a french fry will not be appealing to you in the least.

A more appealing meal than the one you described would be a rare t-bone with steamed broccoli and carrots.

its an evolutionary thing. Fats taste so good to people because they're the best store of energy. In a time when people actually have to move to accomplish things and supermarkets didnt exist storing extra fat would have meant better survival.

The only way you can fix this is make it peoples personal responsibility to stay healthy and to increase access to healthier foods.

The truth is you can eat pretty crappy foods if you exercise enough and if you eat healthier foods you dont need to exercise as much.
 
its an evolutionary thing. Fats taste so good to people because they're the best store of energy. In a time when people actually have to move to accomplish things and supermarkets didnt exist storing extra fat would have meant better survival.

The only way you can fix this is make it peoples personal responsibility to stay healthy and to increase access to healthier foods.

The truth is you can eat pretty crappy foods if you exercise enough and if you eat healthier foods you dont need to exercise as much.

Well I'm sure you know this, but there are good fats and bad fats. There's a reason why Mediterranean peoples have a very low incidence of heart disease. They ingest a lot of olive oil which lowers LDL and raises HDL -- a critical component in fighting heart disease. Frozen french fries, 70/30 ground beef, high amounts of whole milk dairy (cheese, ice cream, etc) do not constitute a healthy fat. I understand that eating fats is essential, but one should try to consume healthy fats.

I think there is a vast ignorance of nutrition in America. You point out you can eat unhealthily but if you exercise it doesn't matter. I don't believe this at all. There are numerous people who develop heart disease yet they are thin and active. You can perform aerobic activities all day long, but if you eat 20 grams of saturated fat each meal, your cholesterol is going to be sky-high anyways. Not to mention when you eat processed foods, you do not ingest anti-carcinogenic compounds that are natural in just about every fruit and vegetable. So you are essentially bypassing nature's way of defending yourself against cancer. This is a reason why cancer rates are so damned high in the U.S. and other Westernized nations.

Can you eat unhealthily and not be overweight: Yes. But I don't believe you can eat unhealthily and actually be healthy, but keep in mind I mean this over a long period of time. Obviously a 23 year old that eats pizzas and burgers all the time yet stays active probably won't show many signs of being unhealthy. But if that habit continues, I'm willing to bet that person will eventually be unhealthy in his or her later years.

And about the access to healthy foods issue: I do not think this is a problem. Show me a supermarket that does not carry produce, or frozen produce. A frozen bag of veggies runs around $1.50. Here in Florida at Publix, store-brand frozen veggies are $1.10 per bag. Lean pork, ground turkey, chicken breast is all usually cheaper than ground beef and other high-fat red meat. If it's not cheaper it's around the same price. Whole wheat bread may be slightly more expensive but not too much. Store-brand 100% juice is not very expensive either...$2.43 at Publix for a 64 oz dark grape juice. Rice is cheap, milk isn't very expensive either... $2.89 for a gallon. It's not the access to healthy foods that is a problem - it is the ignorance and plain old "don't want to" attitude that is to blame for bad eating habits.
 
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Well I'm sure you know this, but there are good fats and bad fats. There's a reason why Mediterranean peoples have a very low incidence of heart disease. They ingest a lot of olive oil which lowers LDL and raises HDL -- a critical component in fighting heart disease. Frozen french fries, 70/30 ground beef, high amounts of whole milk dairy (cheese, ice cream, etc) do not constitute a healthy fat. I understand that eating fats is essential, but one should try to consume healthy fats.

I think there is a vast ignorance of nutrition in America. You point out you can eat unhealthily but if you exercise it doesn't matter. I don't believe this at all. There are numerous people who develop heart disease yet they are thin and active. You can perform aerobic activities all day long, but if you eat 20 grams of saturated fat each meal, your cholesterol is going to be sky-high anyways. Not to mention when you eat processed foods, you do not ingest anti-carcinogenic compounds that are natural in just about every fruit and vegetable. So you are essentially bypassing nature's way of defending yourself against cancer. This is a reason why cancer rates are so damned high in the U.S. and other Westernized nations.

Can you eat unhealthily and not be overweight: Yes. But I don't believe you can eat unhealthily and actually be healthy, but keep in mind I mean this over a long period of time. Obviously a 23 year old that eats pizzas and burgers all the time yet stays active probably won't show many signs of being unhealthy. But if that habit continues, I'm willing to bet that person will eventually be unhealthy in his or her later years.

And about the access to healthy foods issue: I do not think this is a problem. Show me a supermarket that does not carry produce, or frozen produce. A frozen bag of veggies runs around $1.50. Here in Florida at Publix, store-brand frozen veggies are $1.10 per bag. Lean pork, ground turkey, chicken breast is all usually cheaper than ground beef and other high-fat red meat. If it's not cheaper it's around the same price. Whole wheat bread may be slightly more expensive but not too much. Store-brand 100% juice is not very expensive either...$2.43 at Publix for a 64 oz dark grape juice. Rice is cheap, milk isn't very expensive either... $2.89 for a gallon. It's not the access to healthy foods that is a problem - it is the ignorance and plain old "don't want to" attitude that is to blame for bad eating habits.

I agree people should just eat everything in moderation. Its more of a semantic argument whether exercise can counter act unhealthy diet, i.e. how much exercise cancels out 20g of saturated fat.

But overall you are right healthy diet is the cornerstone of true health.

As for access, lower socioeconomic areas have more trouble accessing these kinds of food, such as whole grain wheat. Meats with more fat content are certainly cheaper. Milk is more expensive by me but I would still buy anyway.

I think the problem is people are lazy and uneducated. Its easier and cheaper to buy mcdonalds then find and make a healthy meal.

Then theres the people who would rather buy their cigarettes than whole grain wheat...
 
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