The Graduate Registered Physician (GRP) in Arkansas or Assistant Physician (AP) in Missouri...

[Splenda88]

Association of Medical Doctor Assistant Physicians

An Assistant Physician (In some states called an Associate Physician) is a new breed of provider. These highly educated Doctors were specifically made to tackle the tasks of Primary Care in Medically Undeserved Areas and work with a collaborating physician.

assistantphysicianassociation.com

https://www.armedicalboard.org/Professionals/pdf/GRP_AppPack.pdf

https://pr.mo.gov/assistantphysicians.asp

Spread the words. Advocate for licensure of these med school graduates in all 50 states. I know it's not ideal, but it's the only way to defeat NP.

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[drducky.]

“Why don't we increase medicals schools? Medical schools are doing their best to provide applicants however they are not the problem. There is an overflow of doctors going into medical school. So much so that students are flowing in to the Caribbean just to get the chance to travel back into the U.S.”

The article doesn’t even make sense... It says there’s enough med schools, so why does it say it’s causing students to flow to the Caribbeans?

Probably written by a Carib grad with a 120 CARS score.

 

[Vivid_Quail]

I know it's not ideal, but it's the only way to defeat NP.

That is quite the stretch

 

[Wordead]

I have a hard time believing that these failed doctors are going to know their role any better than the NPs honestly. Sounds like midlevels with extra steps and probably less trainable.

 

[Splenda88]

I have a hard time believing that these failed doctors are going to know their role any better than the NPs honestly. Sounds like midlevels with extra steps and probably less trainable.

At least they will be under the board of medicine...

 

[Vivid_Quail]

I have a hard time believing that these failed doctors are going to know their role any better than the NPs honestly. Sounds like midlevels with extra steps and probably less trainable.

Unmatched physicians 1000% know more knowledge than NP's if they pass Step 1-3. NP's don't even have a national licensing exam AFAIK. Also, M3-M4 is about 4000-6000 clinical hours. That is 5-10 times what most NP's have when they start out.

That being said, I don't think this is a good way to combat NP's. Why the hell would anyone go to medical school for 4 years, pass the USMLE exams and pay $400k to work at an NP/PA level and make $100k. I guess the Caribbean schools are much easier to get into than PA school, but I don't think they are much easier than NP school.

 

[Splenda88]

Unmatched physicians 1000% know more knowledge than NP's if they pass Step 1-3. NP's don't even have a national licensing exam AFAIK. Also, M3-M4 is about 4000-6000 clinical hours. That is 5-10 times what most NP's have when they start out.

That being said, I don't think this is a good way to combat NP's. Why the hell would anyone go to medical school for 4 years, pass the USMLE exams and pay $400k to work at an NP/PA level and make $100k. I guess the Caribbean schools are much easier to get into than PA school, but I don't think they are much easier than NP school.

What do you do with these graduates that pass step 1-3 and can't get into a residency? I think 100-150k/yr is a heck of a lot better than sitting around doing nada.


I am open to hear a better idea...

 

[Vivid_Quail]

What do you do with these graduates that pass step 1-3 and can't get into a residency? I think 100-150k/yr is a heck of a lot better than sitting around doing nada.


I am open to hear a better idea...

Sorry, to be clear, I think this should be a thing in all 50 states. I just don't think it is a long term solution to the NP problem. No one is going to choose to go to med school just to become an over trained PA, it will be everyone's plan B or C.

My solution to the NP problem is require every patient seen by a mid-level to be seen by a supervising physician and completely outlaw mid-level independent practice on a national level. Currently a PA can see 50 patients during their ED shift and the physician signing the notes doesn't lay eyes on a single patient.

 

[Splenda88]

Sorry, to be clear, I think this should be a thing in all 50 states. I just don't think it is a long term solution to the NP problem. No one is going to choose to go to med school just to become an over trained PA, it will be everyone's plan B or C.

My solution to the NP problem is require every patient seen by a mid-level to be seen by a supervising physician and completely outlaw mid-level independent practice on a national level. Currently a PA can see 50 patients during their ED shift and the physician signing the notes doesn't lay eyes on a single patient.

Everyone goes to med school to become doctor and when it's not possible, these people should have a way to pay back their student loan... They are not going to school to be come overtrained PA, but when it's not feasible for them to be MD/DO, I think the system should use them to increase access to healthcare.

By the way, it has to be well regulated... like the ACN license that FL has for doc who did not complete a residency... FL has a list of clinical sites that once you are issued an ACN license, you can ONLY work in these clinics.

I know that won't completely solve the NP issue... Since they are fervently against the AP license; therefore, I am for it.

 

[Vivid_Quail]

Everyone goes to med school to become doctor and when it's not possible, these people should have a way to pay back their student loan... They are not going to school to be come overtrained PA, but when it's not feasible to them to be MD/DO, I think we can use these people to somewhat contribute to healthcare.

By the way, it has to be well regulated... like the ACN license that FL has for doc who did not complete a residency... FL has a list of clinical sites that once you are issued an ACN license, you can ONLY work in these clinics.

A more regulated, time consuming, expensive, and restrictive pathway is not the way to combat PA/NP encroachment. That is mainly what I am saying.

It is a good thing to do for the sake of these graduates and could help a decent amount of patients get access to healthcare, but it is a drop in the bucket in regards to the NP problem. So selling it as a way to beat the NP's is disingenuous in my opinion.

 

[Redpancreas]

“Why don't we increase medicals schools? Medical schools are doing their best to provide applicants however they are not the problem. There is an overflow of doctors going into medical school. So much so that students are flowing in to the Caribbean just to get the chance to travel back into the U.S.”

The article doesn’t even make sense... It says there’s enough med schools, so why does it say it’s causing students to flow to the Caribbeans?

Probably written by a Carib grad with a 120 CARS score.

That is sooo pre-allo.

I think there needs to be more linkage. There are already plenty of BS/MD linkages but they really cater to the smart high schoolers from physician households who know right away what to do to get into these places. Instead, create more and design them so they require commitment to fields of need in XYZ area for a given number of years. For example, there are plenty of people who want to practice is suburban Atlanta, but no one who wants to practice in specific city areas. All the medical colleges (Emory, MCG, etc.) should have seats designated for applicants who want to stay in these areas. Recruit them during undergrad admissions, lower the MCAT cut-offs, give them tuition waivers, etc.

 

[Vivid_Quail]

That is sooo pre-allo.

I think there needs to be more linkage. There are already plenty of BS/MD linkages but they really cater to the smart high schoolers from physician households who know right away what to do to get into these places. Instead, create more and design them so they require commitment to fields of need in XYZ area for a given number of years. For example, there are plenty of people who want to practice is suburban Atlanta, but no one who wants to practice in specific city areas. All the medical colleges (Emory, MCG, etc.) should have seats designated for applicants who want to stay in these areas. Recruit them during undergrad admissions, lower the MCAT cut-offs, give them tuition waivers, etc.

Nah, other countries have tried programs like this and it doesn't work great. You need to make primary care more attractive across the board, like it is in Canada, not just sign up students for 5-10 year contracts. You won't even get the best or even average students this way. If I can make double the money doing ortho or rads and have much more fun doing it, why would I sign up for a FM spot?

 

[GoSpursGo]

What do you do with these graduates that pass step 1-3 and can't get into a residency? I think 100-150k/yr is a heck of a lot better than sitting around doing nada.

Tell them they either shouldn’t have gone to a Caribbean school, or that they should have applied to a more realistic specialty.

I just reject the idea that there are throngs of US MDs and DOs sitting around doing nothing. The majority of those who go unmatched, it’s because they applied for ortho when they weren’t competitive, or even university IM When their scores should have dictated applying more broadly. These grads simply need better advice.

For Caribbean grads, honestly at this point it is very easy to understand the risks of that path. If they want job security they should just apply to NP/PA school in the first place.

 

[Redpancreas]

Nah, other countries have tried programs like this and it doesn't work great. You need to make primary care more attractive across the board, like it is in Canada, not just sign up students for 5-10 year contracts. You won't even get the best or even average students this way. If I can make double the money doing ortho or rads and have much more fun doing it, why would I sign up for a FM spot?

Agreed that that's an even better solution but that's long term and takes infinitely more resources. What I've proposed, medical schools don't have to wait for the system to change but be proactive.

1. These FM places right now are not getting even average medical students. They're getting NPs.
2. This would not be something across the board everyone has to do but just another option. It would be better than the Caribbean route this girl took. By going to the Caribbean you're closing the door on most competitive fields anyways. Inability to make the cut to US medical school doesn't necessarily mean the person would make a worse doctor. Sure, they may need more time since they're likely not as academically strong. Make the program flexible so if they need to remediate stuff, they can.

 

[Vivid_Quail]

It would be better than the Caribbean route this girl took.

If this woman, a black American citizen, could not get into a US MD or DO school like 10-15 years ago, we are talking about someone with <3.0 GPA and <495 MCAT. Are you really suggesting that funneling people in FM that literally aren't academically qualified for medical school is a good solution? Come on...

 

[Redpancreas]

If this woman, a black American citizen, could not get into a US MD or DO school like 10-15 years ago, we are talking about someone with <3.0 GPA and <495 MCAT. Are you really suggesting that funneling people in FM that literally aren't academically qualified for medical school is a good solution? Come on...

Those stats are not case with most Caribbean grads, many have 25+ on their MCAT and 3.0-3.5 GPA who don't get DO spots either. Give those people an opportunity to be US MDs/DOs. Their job may not be in SoCal/NYC but it's medicine and they'll be well compensated. I say schools should open these routes and if they don't get applicants that meet a minimum standards, they can walk away.