The million $ Question... What would you do?

[Docforthepeeps]

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I'm in the high waiting list for Touro NYC and have been accepted to Lecom-E. I read the thread comparing these two from 2 yrs ago which focused more on the fact that Touro is less well established and is a new school.

I don't think that those opinions are relevant anymore. I just want to find out 2.5 yrs later what ppl think about these two schools. I am aspiring for the stars, ortho surgery (ACGME). What do you think will be a better option?

Lecom's only advantage in my opinion is its cost and maybe the chance to rotate in Mercy Pitt hospital (they say they are affiliated though I don't think Pitt is DO friendly) while for Touro is probably the fact its in NYC and its proximity to major medical centers thus the chance to do research which SDN'ers claim are vital for ortho.

Can any of the Touro students comment on the likelihood of rotating in Columbia med, NYU, etc for the electives?

Appreciate your responses and comments

P.s: for what its worth I'm an international student so NYC = 👍

 

[Razmatazz]

I'm in the high waiting list for Touro NYC and have been accepted to Lecom-E. I read the thread comparing these two from 2 yrs ago which focused more on the fact that Touro is less well established and is a new school.

I don't think that those opinions are relevant anymore. I just want to find out 2.5 yrs later what ppl think about these two schools. I am aspiring for the stars, ortho surgery (ACGME). What do you think will be a better option?

Lecom's only advantage in my opinion is its cost and maybe the chance to rotate in Mercy Pitt hospital (they say they are affiliated though I don't think Pitt is DO friendly) while for Touro is probably the fact its in NYC and its proximity to major medical centers thus the chance to do research which SDN'ers claim are vital for ortho.

Can any of the Touro students comment on the likelihood of rotating in Columbia med, NYU, etc for the electives?

Appreciate your responses and comments

P.s: for what its worth I'm an international student so NYC = 👍

During the interview they gave us a list of where the class of 2011 took their electives. Some people in the class rotated at Einstein, Columbia, Mount Sinai and NYU.

 

[gatorfann14]

During the interview they gave us a list of where the class of 2011 took their electives. Some people in the class rotated at Einstein, Columbia, Mount Sinai and NYU.

No matter what you do being a DO means you will NOT go to columbia or NYU for an ortho residency even if you rotate

 

[LesBois88]

ACGME ortho? Try to go to an MD school.

If you'll "settle" for AOA ortho (haha), you can excel at any DO school. Keep in mind that the environment/surroundings of the two schools are also very different and you might like one much more than the other.

Also, being in close proximity to a school that you'll want to do an elective at doesn't mean anything. You could do electives in NYC just as easily from LECOM-E as from TouroCOM.

To be honest, you'll probably change your mind about what you want to do. I know you don't want to hear it. I was you some time ago.

Best of luck! I am a Touro student and I am really enjoying it.

 

[LesBois88]

No matter what you do being a DO means you will NOT go to columbia or NYU for an ortho residency even if you rotate

Just because the history isn't there doesn't mean it isn't possible. I know at Columbia they accept applications from DO students.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Just because the history isn't there doesn't mean it isn't possible. I know at Columbia they accept applications from DO students.

It will happen eventually, but from a safety standpoint, I'd suggest the OP go to LECOM and go for AOA Ortho or just reapply until he gets into an MD college.

 

[TrimtheChute]

I'm not sure where you got the impression that Pitt is not DO friendly. In fact, the Pittsburgh area is one of the most DO friendly places I've seen, especially UPMC. They have tailored some of their ACGME residencies to count for osteopathic internship since PA is one of the states that requires this for licensure.

I don't know how connected Erie is with UPMC so you would need to factor that in your decision. At Seton Hill there are some faculty (and students) with UPMC connections who could probably help you.

 

[Docforthepeeps]

I'm not sure where you got the impression that Pitt is not DO friendly. In fact, the Pittsburgh area is one of the most DO friendly places I've seen, especially UPMC. They have tailored some of their ACGME residencies to count for osteopathic internship since PA is one of the states that requires this for licensure.

I don't know how connected Erie is with UPMC so you would need to factor that in your decision. At Seton Hill there are some faculty (and students) with UPMC connections who could probably help you.

I got that idea from the DO that wrote me my rec. letter. He said that the upper tier allopathic programs, which Pitt is, are not very DO friendly for residency and rotations.

Thats good to know that UPMC help in facilitating DO students. Thanks for the info TrimtheChute. Did you rotate at UPMC ? How was your experience?

 

[countthestars]

For your third year CORE rotations (medicine, Surgery, family med, OB, Psych, peds) you will HAVE to do you clinical rotations at your school's hospitals. Which is NOT NYU, Colombia. For 4th year, you can schedule your elective rotations wherever you want. So even if you do go to LECOM, you can set up 4th year rotations at NYU, Colombia and the like. I have a friend who's scheduling his 4th year rotations in Cali even though he's at NYCOM.

BTW because of the agreement that SGU has with NYC hosptials, most of your core rotations at Touro won't even be in the city because you will be squeezed out by Caribbean students. AT least NYCOM has some of their cores at North Shore University Hospital and LIJ with we share with NYU, Albert Einstein and Hosfra med school. However, I see NYCOM getting squeezed outta NSUH soon 🙄. I actually worry about some 3rd and 4th year rotations at DO schools with new ones opening up so fast...

 

[countthestars]

Just because the history isn't there doesn't mean it isn't possible. I know at Columbia they accept applications from DO students.

So they accept DO applicants...that doesn't mean they will take the DO's for residency. I have NOT SEEN ONE DO match at columbia for IM or gen surgery. PM&R on the other hand do have DO residents. And SLR is not really colombia (although as of late, I haven't seen any DO's match at SLR for EM...)

 

[kcin]

Where is my million dollars?

 

[DocEspana]

TouroCOM has two matches in its first year to SLR (no idea what for, I imagine ER since thats all I know they have).... and another to Columbia (admittedly: columbia's stamford hospital) for IM. It's not C-P, but the very first class out the door is matching to a C-P branch and SLR. And we had another match ACGME at Yale for IM.

Now am I highlighting the impressive ACGME matches? Yes. But saying stuff like the above poster said is just silly. We're matching pretty well in the NYC area. Now I will say that anyone at a DO school trying for ACGME ortho is kidding themselves. Go AOA. Touro gives you 2 months in your 3rd year to get a head start on electives. People definitely do their electives in Bellevue, Jacobi, Sinai and C-P. Do they match there? honestly not yet, but we had a killer impressive ACGME match this year (~80% match rate > the DO average.)

EDIT: forgot to mention, if you want something competitive, it is you yourself that earns it. No school can offer you a hand packaged elite residency. And if you want to be in the northeast you can come here no matter what in your 4th year. But, I will say it is nice that I know the docs at Langone, C-P, Bellevue, Jacobi. I'm more involved than most, but I think I could get some of these superstar docs to write me recommendations for me if I ever rotated with them (assuming I didnt embarass myself on my clinicals either) just from time spent with them after class (kissing ass) when they are the guest lecturer for the week. But how much does that advantage actually amount to? IDK. It's probably more in my head than in reality, but I think it's pretty awesome.

 

[DocEspana]

Where is my million dollars?

I would like to formally file for that money as well

 

[countthestars]

TouroCOM has two matches in its first year to SLR (no idea what for, I imagine ER since thats all I know they have).... and another to Columbia (admittedly: columbia's stamford hospital) for IM. It's not C-P, but the very first class out the door is matching to a C-P branch and SLR. And we had another match ACGME at Yale for IM.

Now am I highlighting the impressive ACGME matches? Yes. But saying stuff like the above poster said is just silly. We're matching pretty well in the NYC area. Now I will say that anyone at a DO school trying for ACGME ortho is kidding themselves. Go AOA. Touro gives you 2 months in your 3rd year to get a head start on electives. People definitely do their electives in Bellevue, Jacobi, Sinai and C-P. Do they match there? honestly not yet, but we had a killer impressive ACGME match this year (~80% match rate > the DO average.)

SLR is NOT Columbia. Yes, It's affiliated with Columbia but so are SO many other hospitals in the nyc area. NYHQ, NY methodist, Wkycoff are all affiliated with Cornell but they are not the impressive ACGME programs. Jersey City medical center is affliated with Mt. Siani but once again, not an impressive ACGME program. Now, seeing a DO student matching into C-P or Bellevue. THAT'S Impressive. Sadly, I have not seen ONE DO match at those places...

 

[countthestars]

BTW I'm not saying DO's don't get impressive ACGME residencies. There are DO's that match at Mayo, Hopkins-Osler and the like every year. However, C-P, Bellevue, Langone, Sinai are pretty much out of the question for DOs unless you are thinking of PM&R. And it's quite sad really because DOs match at elite residencies outside of NYC, But just not in NYC...

 

[DocEspana]

SLR is NOT Columbia. Yes, It's affiliated with Columbia but so are SO many other hospitals in the nyc area. NYHQ, NY methodist, Wkycoff are all affiliated with Cornell but they are not the impressive ACGME programs. Jersey City medical center is affliated with Mt. Siani but once again, not an impressive ACGME program. Now, seeing a DO student matching into C-P or Bellevue. THAT'S Impressive. Sadly, I have not seen ONE DO match at those places...

I only mentioned SLR cause you did. Wasnt really sure why you brought it up honestly hahaha 🙂

EDIT: btw, I totally agree with you that I haven't seen matches to these hospitals either (the exception being I have seen Sinai at least once. and not for PMnR). But I gotta figure if a DO school was to do it, it might be the one who has adjunct faculty from these hospitals. Something should be said that most of the impressive matches (likely) come from non-academic ins giving you the push into the position. Its a shame NYC mega hospitals are so hard to crack into.

 

[DocEspana]

side note, and this is just for fun. Cornell, despite its name, is not considered a very competitive residency hospital itself. I actually heard from a doctor from there the other day who said the residents come for the "A"partments and not the medical "D"epartment. It made me chuckle.

 

[Docforthepeeps]

Where is my million dollars?

TouroCOM has two matches in its first year to SLR (no idea what for, I imagine ER since thats all I know they have).... and another to Columbia (admittedly: columbia's stamford hospital) for IM. It's not C-P, but the very first class out the door is matching to a C-P branch and SLR. And we had another match ACGME at Yale for IM.

Now am I highlighting the impressive ACGME matches? Yes. But saying stuff like the above poster said is just silly. We're matching pretty well in the NYC area. Now I will say that anyone at a DO school trying for ACGME ortho is kidding themselves. Go AOA. Touro gives you 2 months in your 3rd year to get a head start on electives. People definitely do their electives in Bellevue, Jacobi, Sinai and C-P. Do they match there? honestly not yet, but we had a killer impressive ACGME match this year (~80% match rate > the DO average.)

EDIT: forgot to mention, if you want something competitive, it is you yourself that earns it. No school can offer you a hand packaged elite residency. And if you want to be in the northeast you can come here no matter what in your 4th year. But, I will say it is nice that I know the docs at Langone, C-P, Bellevue, Jacobi. I'm more involved than most, but I think I could get some of these superstar docs to write me recommendations for me if I ever rotated with them (assuming I didnt embarass myself on my clinicals either) just from time spent with them after class (kissing ass) when they are the guest lecturer for the week. But how much does that advantage actually amount to? IDK. It's probably more in my head than in reality, but I think it's pretty awesome.

I would like to formally file for that money as well

Try international DO student

Anyway, in the Lecom match list for class of 2009 that they gave us during the interview, there was one who matched University of Florida, Jacksonville for ACGME ortho... must have been a massive star i guess..

As for the dough, I would need the both of you to wire me a 1% processing fee to Nigeria Central Bank. I will PM you the accn't number LOL Wait I'm not kidding you gotta do it in 24 hrs or else all the money is

 

[TrimtheChute]

I got that idea from the DO that wrote me my rec. letter. He said that the upper tier allopathic programs, which Pitt is, are not very DO friendly for residency and rotations.

Thats good to know that UPMC help in facilitating DO students. Thanks for the info TrimtheChute. Did you rotate at UPMC ? How was your experience?

Ah, was he talking in general then and not specifically about Pitt? Western PA has many practicing DO's...lots of PCOM/LECOM grads. It is hard not to run into them at UPMC. I did my research at UPMC, shadowed DO's here and was pleasantly surprised at the number of them on staff and in residency programs. I'm just finishing up my first year in less than 3 weeks 🙂 and plan to do several rotations at UPMC during 3rd/4th year. Of course, I'm interested in primary care so getting rotations will be easier to do than ortho.

For ortho, I would suggest that you try to connect with some ortho docs in the area you end up choosing. Building a network can help you secure the coveted rotations and hopefully lead to a residency in the future assuming all the other key requirements are met (board scores, LORs, etc.).

 

[bleeker10]

Now I will say that anyone at a DO school trying for ACGME ortho is kidding themselves. Go AOA.

I agree. You may not get the name or prestige of some top ACGME places but you will get good training. I talked to a few ortho residents at the local program here in Erie and they had some impressive "names" for fellowship interviews (Harvard, Mayo, etc) but I don't know how top notch those places are for ortho fellowships. I want to do ortho too and I have looked into some of the AOA programs and they are good. If I wasn't in the Army, I would definitely go AOA.

Touro gives you 2 months in your 3rd year to get a head start on electives.

Same here for LECOM. Plus since we do 2 months of GS in 3rd year, a lot of places will let you do 1 month in a subspecialty at that hospital.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Is the OP for real?

 

[DocEspana]

Same here for LECOM. Plus since we do 2 months of GS in 3rd year, a lot of places will let you do 1 month in a subspecialty at that hospital.

know what would be useful for lots of people (And my own curiosity)? Listing out what the 3rd year rotations are. They vary so much at each school. TouroCOM does (in months): 2 Internal Med, 2 Surgery, 2 Family Med, 1 OBGYN, 1 ER, 1 Peds, 1 Psych, 2 vacation/electives.

I think the 2nd month of surgery and the month of ER is a less common nice feature (though LECOM apparently does the second month of surgery too). No OMT month or rural medicine month. I'm not confident enough what 4th year involved for us, but its really just a bunch of electives anyway.

 

[Docforthepeeps]

Is the OP for real?

For real about wat?

 

[hawkeye pierce]

UPMC at least at Presbyterian has a few DO's but considering the density of DO's in Pennsylvania it is very slim. And very few of them are in the more competitive specialties. A few anesthesiologists, er docs, IM, but i have not seen a single DO neurosurgery or transplant etc.

 

[DarkHorizon]

For real about wat?

For real about having inspirations of matching ACGME ortho, and subsequently asking which school would be better. Be just a little realistic.