The Next Step after Biomedical Masters

[LoveDoctor]

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[Kittee]

Such a big change from your undergraduate years!

I'm curious what your graduate courses were like. Were they advanced versions of undergrad science courses that are required for medical school? If so, I have a feeling that a killer MCAT score is all you need. And I mean killer.

Still, I think your undergraduate GPA vs your graduate GPA makes your situation quite unique and hard to gauge. I would consult with someone in admissions from a school that has rejected you.

EDIT: btw, why did you take the MCAT again? Your score increase wasn't sufficient, so I think it was not the best idea to retake until you consistently got a 30...

 

[LoveDoctor]

Such a big change from your undergraduate years!

I'm curious what your graduate courses were like. Were they advanced versions of undergrad science courses that are required for medical school? If so, I have a feeling that a killer MCAT score is all you need. And I mean killer.

Still, I think your undergraduate GPA vs your graduate GPA makes your situation quite unique and hard to gauge. I would consult with someone in admissions from a school that has rejected you.

EDIT: btw, why did you take the MCAT again? Your score increase wasn't sufficient, so I think it was not the best idea to retake until you consistently got a 30...

Hi Kittee!

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond! I greatly appreciate it!
This masters program provides courses that are taken by podiatry students.
They are supposed to be very similar to/ or help you to prepare for Medical School level courses.
The courses were intense, but wonderful in information. They included the following:
Histology, Neuroscience, Biochemistry, Gross Anatomy, etc.
I took USMLE subject exams to practice for the midterms/finals and I did well!
I wish it would have helped when I applied last year...


You are right about the MCAT, I took it again after scoring very well on a few practice tests, but my outcome was obviously not the same.
I am working on that part right now.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

What would possess you to leave the country?

 

[Nasrudin]

Your undergraduate work comprises the leg sweep against the karate kid committed by the blond bully at the behest of the bad guy sensei. Only the one legged crane stance can help you now. Unfortunately Mr Miyagi is no longer with us. And thus. Unable to train you on the bow of his canoe all summer.

So.

You're in bad shape, I'm afraid.

An SMP is your last ditch. And even then. A 2.5/1.9 is crippling. Hope you have one heck of a personal narrative even with a good smp performance.

Sorry to be blunt. But it is what it is.

 

[MiniMoo]

Your undergraduate work comprises the leg sweep against the karate kid committed by the blond bully at the behest of the bad guy sensei. Only the one legged crane stance can help you now. Unfortunately Mr Miyagi is no longer with us. And thus. Unable to train you on the bow of his canoe all summer.

I absolutely loved this part of your post, Nas.

I agree that an SMP is a last ditch effort. Unfortunately, many of those programs have a 3.0 GPA cutoff. Additionally, a 3.4 GPA in a graduate program will not do you any favors. Graduate courses do not make up for a poor undergraduate GPA (unless it's in an SMP), and your performance was also sub-par. At this point I think your choices are to:

1. Retake classes. Raise your GPA to a 3.0, start an SMP, and absolutely kick butt (3.7+ GPA) -- this is a high risk option since if you screw up here, your chances at med school are pretty much tanked. Look at the post-bacc/SMP forum for more details.

2. Retake all classes that you did poorly in. Get A's. Apply DO after you've managed to raise your GPA to at least a 3.3 (this should go faster since AACOMAS utilizes grade replacement).

3. Go offshore. Although I don't think even Caribbean schools will take an applicant with a 2.5/1.9 GPA.

4. Consider other career options.

 

[MiniMoo]

I just noticed the wording of your thread title -- you obtained a "Biomedical Masters"? Was it marketed as an SMP-type program?

 

[LoveDoctor]

What would possess you to leave the country?

I would love to sew my medical oats in the good ol' US of A, but I am viewing the "leaving the country" as a last resort option to obtain a medical degree.


I don't believe I am in need of an exorcism 🙂
Thank you

 

[LoveDoctor]

Your undergraduate work comprises the leg sweep against the karate kid committed by the blond bully at the behest of the bad guy sensei. Only the one legged crane stance can help you now. Unfortunately Mr Miyagi is no longer with us. And thus. Unable to train you on the bow of his canoe all summer.

So.

You're in bad shape, I'm afraid.

An SMP is your last ditch. And even then. A 2.5/1.9 is crippling. Hope you have one heck of a personal narrative even with a good smp performance.

Sorry to be blunt. But it is what it is.

Nasrudin,

Longing for the days when Mr. Miyagi was alive..

Thank you for your honesty. I will do more than my best to get into one of these programs.
I do believe I have a strong personal narrative, and if I get into an SMP, will work as if life depends on it, knowing that I am at a great disadvantage.

All the best

 

[LoveDoctor]

I absolutely loved this part of your post, Nas.

I agree that an SMP is a last ditch effort. Unfortunately, many of those programs have a 3.0 GPA cutoff. Additionally, a 3.4 GPA in a graduate program will not do you any favors. Graduate courses do not make up for a poor undergraduate GPA (unless it's in an SMP), and your performance was also sub-par. At this point I think your choices are to:

1. Retake classes. Raise your GPA to a 3.0, start an SMP, and absolutely kick butt (3.7+ GPA) -- this is a high risk option since if you screw up here, your chances at med school are pretty much tanked. Look at the post-bacc/SMP forum for more details.

2. Retake all classes that you did poorly in. Get A's. Apply DO after you've managed to raise your GPA to at least a 3.3 (this should go faster since AACOMAS utilizes grade replacement).

3. Go offshore. Although I don't think even Caribbean schools will take an applicant with a 2.5/1.9 GPA.

4. Consider other career options.

Greetings Minimoo!

Thank you for your input on my situation.
May I ask if you believe that I should not even apply to SMPs yet, until I retake courses?

I will certainly work on this after I have retaken my MCAT this month.
Is the MCAT also an indicator of hopeful times? Or are my numbers unable to be helped by an MCAT score?

Will any school consider my graduate gpa an improvement? I certainly did better & worked hard. I know that it does not replace my undergrad, but hopefully it can be seen as an indicator of better academic times (although you have said it to be subpar).

Thanks again!

 

[LoveDoctor]

I just noticed the wording of your thread title -- you obtained a "Biomedical Masters"? Was it marketed as an SMP-type program?

No, Minimoo,
It was not marketed as a "real SMP" as in the type that you take medical school courses, but it is under the SMP sticky list and on the AAMC as a program for GPA enhancement after undergrad.

Courses are taken with podiatry students, and 90% or more of the students are trying to improve their chances in acceptance to medical & dental school.

 

[Nasrudin]

No, Minimoo,
It was not marketed as a "real SMP" as in the type that you take medical school courses, but it is under the SMP sticky list and on the AAMC as a program for GPA enhancement after undergrad.

Courses are taken with podiatry students, and 90% or more of the students are trying to improve their chances in acceptance to medical & dental school.

Sounds like you have competed for a tough masters. A 3.4 is good in that setting but not for a normal grad degree. They's want to see something in the 3.6's at least.

First I'd fire your attorney. Or whoever else has been advising you. You should have been demolishing and rebuilding your undergraduate record before even beginning graduate work.

The whole of the med school app pivots on the u-grad gpa and MCAT. Both of which are glaringly inadequate at this point.

Given your years of advice from court appointed schlepps. I'm really not sure that even an SMP is going to do it. You'll have to target programs that aren't designed for a global re-app process--more on the ones that are hospitable to taking care of their own that have done well in the program.

If I was you. I'd talk to some carribean med school rep's and just let the ball fly. Go southern hemishpere for a while. Come back scrapping for a primary care spot. You're app is in the pretty far gone pile. It's 4th and 25. Find your last best chance and let it fly.

Or just know when to quit. The history of sickly pale Europeans arriving on this shore is littered with absurd deaths of religious zealots who didn't know when to sit down and rethink the whole notion of a city on a hill--whatever that means.

 

[LoveDoctor]

Nasrudin,

You are really something special!
I cannot express my appreciation for your unique, fantastic, entertaining way to give me harsh truths. Seriously, I think its wonderful!
I have to smile while reading my order of execution, and that is really a unique experience.
Please, I insist: put that talent to work for you someday 🙂

Consider my attorney fired!

Seriously, you don't think there is any way to salvage myself and live the American (medschool) dream?
Not even with the lovely suggestions of Minimoo: retaking courses, DO for example?

Which are the programs you suggest? What are the names of those that "take care of their own" and which are the ones you think I should avoid?

Of noteworthy attention: my gpa for DO schools is higher because I had retakes
I posted my amcas, because this is the lowest one, and I needed the kind of advice you guys have been giving me.

Are you considering my state of mind to be as those religious zealots who have had an absurd death? That is pretty damn awful, if that is where my brain is...


Hoping for better days, and a one legged crane stance

 

[Nasrudin]

Nasrudin,

You are really something special!
I cannot express my appreciation for your unique, fantastic, entertaining way to give me harsh truths. Seriously, I think its wonderful!
I have to smile while reading my order of execution, and that is really a unique experience.
Please, I insist: put that talent to work for you someday 🙂

Consider my attorney fired!

Seriously, you don't think there is any way to salvage myself and live the American (medschool) dream?
Not even with the lovely suggestions of Minimoo: retaking courses, DO for example?

Which are the programs you suggest? What are the names of those that "take care of their own" and which are the ones you think I should avoid?

Of noteworthy attention: my gpa for DO schools is higher because I had retakes
I posted my amcas, because this is the lowest one, and I needed the kind of advice you guys have been giving me.

Are you considering my state of mind to be as those religious zealots who have had an absurd death? That is pretty damn awful, if that is where my brain is...


Hoping for better days, and a one legged crane stance

Forget about me. The focus of this thread is you.

No I don't demean your mental particulars. They are. As it were. Par for this course. Some call it being driven. Others inspiration. I call it being a little touched. All of it it necessary to get your spot and then to hold up against the onslaught of the training.

But the maxim is: This is a zealots paradise. If you can't stomach the company of the dogged and determined to a fault. Think about something else. And for certain weigh out the possibility and benefits of not doing it at all. There is for some reason a lot of romanticism surrouding a career in medicine when in fact, in practice, it can be quite tedious. People come here to tell us that. But of course. They are lunatics and barbarians. And thus should not deter us from our holy purpose.

You can salvage your american med school aspirations. Just be prepared to bare the weight of the cross. And the jeering crowds of rational people. Be prepared to eat locusts and honey. And inhabit a the mud huts of madmen at the river.

Whether the righteous vindactation at your prophecy and subsequent scorn was worth it. You'll have to see I suppose.

DO schools will cut you a break for retakes. And go for it. At all costs above going to the carribean. But keep in minds this will take years of reconstruction and/or an SMP. It's this tenious "and/or" that suggests the benefits of going equatorial and tropical with your aspirations.

I had a former classmate who's down in Grenada. He'll be an attending while your still completing your reconstruction project. If you catch my drift. Still not for the faint of heart. Risky to be certain. But the job can be done quick and dirty that way.

I'm not one to circumscibe anyone's hopes with my opinion. You can do it any way you want. I can only guess at what I would do in your shoes. Which would be evaluating the mobility of my u-grad gpa first. And taking a shot at DO or the Carib.

An SMP would just add insane costs to alreafy insane proposition. But since you're already nutty. Then consider VCU or EVMS or Cinci or Tulane or.....(help Drmidlife!) or etc. Go talk to some folks in the postbacc forum for best results.

Wishing you luck is not necessary. For we are a special illogical few. For which luck and sanity misapplies.

 

[DrMidlife]

LoveDoctor, I apologize for not responding to your PM yet, so I'll just join the fray.

Here's the reality you're up against, in trying to come back from a way-under average cumulative undergrad GPA and a way-under average MCAT and a mediocre not-SMP performance.

60% of med school applicants are rejected every year, US MD/DO. It's a mistake to think of that 60% as being under-qualified. There are thousands of candidates with competitive credentials in that 60% for every one anecdotal underqualified candidate in the 40%.

I would never recommend the Caribbean because of the failure rate, the financial disadvantage, and the limited opportunities. I'm related to a Carib grad who is now a CT surgeon in the US, and I still say: don't do it.

I want to very strongly encourage you to take your focus away from finding a medical program or SMP that will let you in.

I want to very strongly encourage you to instead put your focus on two things:

1. Get away from school for at least 2 years. Find a job. Be an independent adult who pays rent. Take every opportunity to have decision-making responsibilities that affect strangers and are subject to criticism. I don't care if this job is waiting tables or telemarketing or working at McDonalds or being a CNA. Do the job as if you are trying to become the owner of the business, as if your mistakes would cost somebody else his/her job. Why? You do not come across as a mature adult who is capable of life and death medical decisions. Which means you're the average under-25 year old. The average 25 year old doesn't get into med school. The average 25 year old with poor credentials absolutely doesn't get into med school. Job one: go do things that make you not average, and that give you the scars and the backbone and the perspective and the basis of comparison to make a future decision about what job you'd be best at, medicine or not.

2. Accept that the school work you've done so far has hurt, not helped, your attempts to get into med school. Embrace it. You are not a strong enough student to succeed in med school. You are not going to wake up tomorrow and be a strong enough student to succeed in med school. Lots of people find that if they go have a bit of a career, and then try school again later, that they're better students. Maybe this is your future. Maybe it isn't. But I encourage you to mentally box up your college career, and put that box on a shelf called Things That Didn't Go So Well. Look away from that box, and direct your attention to the shelf called Things That I Am Freaking GREAT At and the shelf called Things I Want To Do Like Maybe Travel.

If 2 years from now you can still think of no other option for a happy life than to be a doctor, then you can dip your toe in the waters of school again. Not med school, but school. One class, after work, in math or English. If you get an A, then you get to think about the next thing.

SDN will still be here if that's what happens.

Best of luck to you.

P.S. One way to tell a good SMP from a not-good SMP: a good SMP won't let you in if they don't expect to get you into med school.

 

[gunito]

Looks like you need to retake your pre reqs. Why would you apply with a cGPA of 2.55??? The MINIMUM is generally 2.75...I believe you need a 3.0 to enter a SMP. Looks like you should just retake some classes.

 

[Nasrudin]

LoveDoctor, I apologize for not responding to your PM yet, so I'll just join the fray.

Here's the reality you're up against, in trying to come back from a way-under average cumulative undergrad GPA and a way-under average MCAT and a mediocre not-SMP performance.

60% of med school applicants are rejected every year, US MD/DO. It's a mistake to think of that 60% as being under-qualified. There are thousands of candidates with competitive credentials in that 60% for every one anecdotal underqualified candidate in the 40%.

I would never recommend the Caribbean because of the failure rate, the financial disadvantage, and the limited opportunities. I'm related to a Carib grad who is now a CT surgeon in the US, and I still say: don't do it.

I want to very strongly encourage you to take your focus away from finding a medical program or SMP that will let you in.

I want to very strongly encourage you to instead put your focus on two things:

1. Get away from school for at least 2 years. Find a job. Be an independent adult who pays rent. Take every opportunity to have decision-making responsibilities that affect strangers and are subject to criticism. I don't care if this job is waiting tables or telemarketing or working at McDonalds or being a CNA. Do the job as if you are trying to become the owner of the business, as if your mistakes would cost somebody else his/her job. Why? You do not come across as a mature adult who is capable of life and death medical decisions. Which means you're the average under-25 year old. The average 25 year old doesn't get into med school. The average 25 year old with poor credentials absolutely doesn't get into med school. Job one: go do things that make you not average, and that give you the scars and the backbone and the perspective and the basis of comparison to make a future decision about what job you'd be best at, medicine or not.

2. Accept that the school work you've done so far has hurt, not helped, your attempts to get into med school. Embrace it. You are not a strong enough student to succeed in med school. You are not going to wake up tomorrow and be a strong enough student to succeed in med school. Lots of people find that if they go have a bit of a career, and then try school again later, that they're better students. Maybe this is your future. Maybe it isn't. But I encourage you to mentally box up your college career, and put that box on a shelf called Things That Didn't Go So Well. Look away from that box, and direct your attention to the shelf called Things That I Am Freaking GREAT At and the shelf called Things I Want To Do Like Maybe Travel.

If 2 years from now you can still think of no other option for a happy life than to be a doctor, then you can dip your toe in the waters of school again. Not med school, but school. One class, after work, in math or English. If you get an A, then you get to think about the next thing.

SDN will still be here if that's what happens.

Best of luck to you.

P.S. One way to tell a good SMP from a not-good SMP: a good SMP won't let you in if they don't expect to get you into med school.

There you go. That's what I should of said. Or thought. Without all the mental masturbation. Even the unintentional kind. Accidental masturbation? Stretching it thin there.

But anyway. I think she was more adroit at both perceiving and being frank about your current academic getup. Do what she said. Use the sense of sensible people for a change. See what it does for you. Because if anything, you've tried everything else.

 

[LoveDoctor]

LoveDoctor, I apologize for not responding to your PM yet, so I'll just join the fray.

Here's the reality you're up against, in trying to come back from a way-under average cumulative undergrad GPA and a way-under average MCAT and a mediocre not-SMP performance.

60% of med school applicants are rejected every year, US MD/DO. It's a mistake to think of that 60% as being under-qualified. There are thousands of candidates with competitive credentials in that 60% for every one anecdotal underqualified candidate in the 40%.

I would never recommend the Caribbean because of the failure rate, the financial disadvantage, and the limited opportunities. I'm related to a Carib grad who is now a CT surgeon in the US, and I still say: don't do it.

I want to very strongly encourage you to take your focus away from finding a medical program or SMP that will let you in.

I want to very strongly encourage you to instead put your focus on two things:

1. Get away from school for at least 2 years. Find a job. Be an independent adult who pays rent. Take every opportunity to have decision-making responsibilities that affect strangers and are subject to criticism. I don't care if this job is waiting tables or telemarketing or working at McDonalds or being a CNA. Do the job as if you are trying to become the owner of the business, as if your mistakes would cost somebody else his/her job. Why? You do not come across as a mature adult who is capable of life and death medical decisions. Which means you're the average under-25 year old. The average 25 year old doesn't get into med school. The average 25 year old with poor credentials absolutely doesn't get into med school. Job one: go do things that make you not average, and that give you the scars and the backbone and the perspective and the basis of comparison to make a future decision about what job you'd be best at, medicine or not.

2. Accept that the school work you've done so far has hurt, not helped, your attempts to get into med school. Embrace it. You are not a strong enough student to succeed in med school. You are not going to wake up tomorrow and be a strong enough student to succeed in med school. Lots of people find that if they go have a bit of a career, and then try school again later, that they're better students. Maybe this is your future. Maybe it isn't. But I encourage you to mentally box up your college career, and put that box on a shelf called Things That Didn't Go So Well. Look away from that box, and direct your attention to the shelf called Things That I Am Freaking GREAT At and the shelf called Things I Want To Do Like Maybe Travel.

If 2 years from now you can still think of no other option for a happy life than to be a doctor, then you can dip your toe in the waters of school again. Not med school, but school. One class, after work, in math or English. If you get an A, then you get to think about the next thing.

SDN will still be here if that's what happens.

Best of luck to you.

P.S. One way to tell a good SMP from a not-good SMP: a good SMP won't let you in if they don't expect to get you into med school.

DrMidlife,

I am very thankful to your honest response, it is greatly appreciated.
I would like to say that I am surprised that you feel I do not come across as a mature adult with the information you have about me.
I am actually 27 years old, and have already taken time off to work for 2 1/2 years, which is what I did between my undergraduate and masters degree.
I worked very successfully in a career which I had to direct the language education of international executives in 6 languages. I alone assessed their needs. I alone taught them. I alone, guided them, and their business ventures in foreign countries depended on their abilities to communicate successfully with their clients.

I loved being a leader, assessing problems, developing solutions, and winning over some of the most critical, difficult, and challenging business men & women in the country and seeing to their success. This made me realize that I would love to go back to school and fulfill my dream of a medical career. That is why I did the masters, all the while, working full time, and supporting myself as I went to school.
I am not under the belief that taking another 2 years to work will further improve my current state, although I welcome your suggestion whole-heartedly.

I know that my case, my numbers are barely security to demonstrate my strengths and abilities, but I am working hard to improve that. I know I am not the first person to have a difficult and embarrassing undergraduate career and still believe that it should not take one away from moving ahead.

I fully accept that I have failed to secure myself a seat in medical school and that I have built my own catastrophic situation. That is why I am asking for advise, and investigating various options in order to continue.

You asked me to think deeply and honestly if I was still committed to this career, and I answered "yes". I still answer "yes" and I am trying to find my way to do so.

I welcome, once more, your suggestions if this response makes you think of anything else that may work for me & those in my position.
If not, I thank you again for your input & best of luck to your medical future Dr Midlife.

If I ever make it, you will be among those to thank for the gift of your input and time.

 

[LoveDoctor]

Looks like you need to retake your pre reqs. Why would you apply with a cGPA of 2.55??? The MINIMUM is generally 2.75...I believe you need a 3.0 to enter a SMP. Looks like you should just retake some classes.

Yes, I will probably do that.
I was thinking that my master's gpa would help to leverage that short-coming.
I also have spoken to former SMP students that are in medical school whom had a very low gpa and high MCAT, and were still accepted to the SMP.

The Georgetown physios forum for the SMP has responded to students with low gpa to demonstrate a strong MCAT score for consideration.

For those reasons, I was still working at taking a shot at applying.

Thank you Gunito!

 

[docelh]

Not sure you'll be able to get into an SMP with the low GPA & MCAT. I can't imagine why you didn't apply to the Caribbean at all the last time around. It's comparable to the sub-30 MCAT, 3.1 cGPA insisting that DO is not good enough for them.

For the life of me, I can see why you chose to put yourself through USMLE type courses, but the reason just doesn't make sense. It's kind of like the political science undergrad who wants to take law school classes to prove to law school he's good enough. Entirely unnecessary, counter-productive, and just not the way the game is played.

My brother was able to get into one low-tier U.S. allopathic school after three tries. His major was probably tougher than yours, his GPA was better, and his MCAT was higher. He got a job in a well-known lab and toiled for publications. While there, he faced a lot of pressure to just give in and go to an easier-to-get-into PhD program. So I can't recommend this strategy in its entirety, but it works for some people.

 

[Bernoull]

First off, if you're really set on medicine and are willing to sacrifice a lot more and a lot longer there still remain some chance.

Having said this, your decision to pursue a Master's and apply to med school admissions were BOTH misguided. Your problem clearly is poor undergrad grades and completing a Master doesn't remedy that. I did a M.Sc. also in BME but my ugrad was (3.4) and I applied with a 4.0 graduate GPA and I think even that had only marginally benefited my application.

For ur current situation, you need to remedy two key academic shortcomings: uGPA and MCAT. I'll suggest retaking all or most courses you have <B in and aiming for As for the retakes and applying to DO schools (they grade replacement policy will help you a lot). Also buckle down for the MCAT and please don't take it unless you're CONSISTENTLY scoring well (>28).

The road ahead is tough undoubtedly, but there's still a shot if you're willing to slug it out.


GL

 

[Nasrudin]

LoveDoc,

Sorry if our conclusions were callous. Like Bernoull said. You'll just have to slug it out.

I can remember quite well being frustrated with pessimistic prognostications on my own situation.

But you'll have to shoulder the doubts of everyone to go forward. Because the situation you've created academically is dire.

There's no shame in trying everything. No shame in not making it either. Plan B's are in order. But that doesn't mean it's not possible.

But I think anyone who's dug themselves out of a similar hole. Had a distinct and radical shift in action and performance. That was sustained past the casual shrugs of even the most narrow adcom idea of academic fortitude. Years man. Of hard time. Dodging the shanks of even the nerdiest of nerd gangsters.

I think that's what DrMidlife was getting at with telling you to hit the lockerooom and rethink your game plan.

Alrighty then. Another lively Saturday night at my place.

 

[wiiturtledove]

Interesting read to say the least. A lot of long winded pedantic posts. Advice has been given, be they good or bad. It's not the amount of activities but the quality. The original poster is not humble about anything. If you are so good at guiding people and professionals, why can you not guide yourself? What is this? Jane Austen's Emma? Why havent you spoken to the med schools (even the ones on the bottom rung) why they didnt accept you and what you can do about it? A master's probably would have helped if you had a 4.0 or above a 3.5. You are not realistic. Jumping from a 24 to a 30+ MCAT??? Do you have any idea how hard that would be? Don't put the cart before the horse. Your option probably is to leave the country. Enrolling in a SMP and not getting a 3.5 or 4.0 will kill all chances of any US med school. It's just a progression of failures that you keep heaping on yourself. Swallow your pride, calculate your finances, look at the options again, and just follow 1 thing. I think Docelh has the best advice so far and is giving the advice straight. Maybe you should look at being a PA too. Getting into med school is one battle. Passing the USMLEs is a war. No need to waste all this time getting in and having nowhere to go afterwards.

 

[LoveDoctor]

Not sure you'll be able to get into an SMP with the low GPA & MCAT. I can't imagine why you didn't apply to the Caribbean at all the last time around. It's comparable to the sub-30 MCAT, 3.1 cGPA insisting that DO is not good enough for them.

For the life of me, I can see why you chose to put yourself through USMLE type courses, but the reason just doesn't make sense. It's kind of like the political science undergrad who wants to take law school classes to prove to law school he's good enough. Entirely unnecessary, counter-productive, and just not the way the game is played.

My brother was able to get into one low-tier U.S. allopathic school after three tries. His major was probably tougher than yours, his GPA was better, and his MCAT was higher. He got a job in a well-known lab and toiled for publications. While there, he faced a lot of pressure to just give in and go to an easier-to-get-into PhD program. So I can't recommend this strategy in its entirety, but it works for some people.

Thank you docelh,

I totally see your point, and although these courses didn't actually help me in my superior goal, they did make me more confident at my ability to perform in med school.
What an expensive boost of confidence!! 🙁

I am really happy for your brother! You must be very proud!

 

[LoveDoctor]

First off, if you're really set on medicine and are willing to sacrifice a lot more and a lot longer there still remain some chance.

Having said this, your decision to pursue a Master's and apply to med school admissions were BOTH misguided. Your problem clearly is poor undergrad grades and completing a Master doesn't remedy that. I did a M.Sc. also in BME but my ugrad was (3.4) and I applied with a 4.0 graduate GPA and I think even that had only marginally benefited my application.

For ur current situation, you need to remedy two key academic shortcomings: uGPA and MCAT. I'll suggest retaking all or most courses you have <B in and aiming for As for the retakes and applying to DO schools (they grade replacement policy will help you a lot). Also buckle down for the MCAT and please don't take it unless you're CONSISTENTLY scoring well (>28).

The road ahead is tough undoubtedly, but there's still a shot if you're willing to slug it out.


GL

Bernoull,

Your advice is well received indeed! I see that both choices were certainly misguided, and I am going to work on those courses & the MCAT.

I wish I would have spoken to you last year! Before applying several hundreds away to the spoils.

Thanks again!

 

[LoveDoctor]

LoveDoc,

Sorry if our conclusions were callous. Like Bernoull said. You'll just have to slug it out.

I can remember quite well being frustrated with pessimistic prognostications on my own situation.

But you'll have to shoulder the doubts of everyone to go forward. Because the situation you've created academically is dire.

There's no shame in trying everything. No shame in not making it either. Plan B's are in order. But that doesn't mean it's not possible.

But I think anyone who's dug themselves out of a similar hole. Had a distinct and radical shift in action and performance. That was sustained past the casual shrugs of even the most narrow adcom idea of academic fortitude. Years man. Of hard time. Dodging the shanks of even the nerdiest of nerd gangsters.

I think that's what DrMidlife was getting at with telling you to hit the lockerooom and rethink your game plan.

Alrighty then. Another lively Saturday night at my place.

You guys have surpassed my hopes of good advice.
Thank you very much for giving me your best.

I have great respect for the honesty and the alternatives (including retreating my efforts) that have been presented here.

I will update on what I have done. All the best!

 

[LoveDoctor]

wiiturtledove,

I am glad you have been entertained by the discussion.
May I respond to your commentary:

The original poster is not humble about anything.
If you are so good at guiding people and professionals, why can you not guide yourself? What is this? Jane Austen's Emma?

If you read what post I was responding to, maybe you can see the context of my response. I was clarifying that I don't believe myself to be "an under 25 year old (actually 27), who has no experience in being an independent adult". I used strong statements to make sure this was clear.

I also believe that my humility is apparent in posting my story and allowing strangers to rip me to shreds. That is being humble, in my opinion. I am doing the best that I can, and am willing to share my difficult situation with everyone that cares to read this.

My statement at guiding professionals was a response to the statement that I had not experience in making decisions subject to criticism by strangers. In addition, I guided individuals in what I had experience in. This is my first time trying to get into medical school, and I have made big mistakes, and have been poorly advised. But I am still moving forward, and I have not made any declarations that I am an expert at the job of being pre-med. Therefore, I don't believe that you can so boldly extrapolate my experience at guiding professionals in language (which I have done for years) with my lack of knowledge and errors made in my pre-med career. Although, I do accept the validity of being successful for others and not being successful with myself.

Why havent you spoken to the med schools (even the ones on the bottom rung) why they didnt accept you and what you can do about it?

I have spoken to the medical schools. I was just seeking further advice. No medical school told me about SMPs and I found that out here, through other members.


Jumping from a 24 to a 30+ MCAT??? Do you have any idea how hard that would be?

I have taken many practice MCATs, from Kaplan, Princeton, and AAMC where I have gotten over 30. I believe that with greater consistency & practice, it is possible for me to produce this in the official exam.

Your option probably is to leave the country.

I have this option very clear among my possibilities. I just believe that it should be a last option, as I have a few more things to try before resorting to this.


Getting into med school is one battle. Passing the USMLEs is a war. No need to waste all this time getting in and having nowhere to go afterwards.

Absolutely, undeniably true. You are completely right. I will heed your advice, look into PA as an alternate and as for now, focus one "1 thing" as you say, which is trying to stay in the US through DO.

Thank you very much for your input, it is greatly appreciated.
I have gotten great advice here, no matter how hard it was to absorb sometimes, it was excellent.

Best wishes to you & your medical career

 

[njbmd]

Absolutely, undeniably true. You are completely right. I will heed your advice, look into PA as an alternate and as for now, focus one "1 thing" as you say, which is trying to stay in the US through DO.

The two PA schools that are in my area (one at my school) that wouldn't touch you with that uGPA. Physician assistant is not an alternative to becoming a physician. In many ways, it more difficult, albeit it shorter, than medical school.

Most PA programs are quite competitive now (people who don't want to do the 4 years of medical school but would be competitive for medical school) and are at masters level (meaning 3.0 is the minimum to even apply). The average GPA of the folks who applied to the PA school at my university was 3.6 and none of the students had uGPAs less than 3.2. You would almost have to do another complete undergraduate degree to get yourself even to 3.0. Remember, masters degrees outside of SMPs for grade enhancement generally don't count for much in terms of entry into medical school - read PA is NOT a stepping stone into medical school.

In short, get out of school, get a job and get your self settled down. After that, you can look at careers that might give you some satisfaction but Physician Assistant is likely going to be out of reach with your poor academics. Those stories of "coming back from the dead" academically are getting fewer because of the extreme expense of college these days. In short, you get essentially one chance at not "screwing up" and unless you have a pile of money sitting around, you are rapidly running out of options.