The Real Northwestern Anesthesiology, Part Two

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graeae

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It’s the middle of residency recruitment season again, so as follow-up to WhoPassedGas’s post last November about “The Real Northwestern Anesthesiology,” http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/northwestern-anesthesiology.1040305/ I thought it’d be helpful to provide an updated perspective on the program. In all fairness, WhoPassedGas was absolutely right in describing this as a working program. For better or worse, our operative volume is tremendous, which means residents get to see a lot of different cases, but they also do get worked like donkeys. As far as the rest of her complaints, I think that had to do more with her personal situation than the program. All in all, the resident body, surgeons, and attendings here are actually quite nice.

I’m an attending at Northwestern. I was here for four years of residency, but did all of my schooling and fellowship elsewhere. For concern about professional repercussions, I’m reluctant to give too many details, but suffice it to say I’ve seen a handful of different anesthesiology departments. Having worked as both resident and attending here, I now see that the major problem in this place stems from its faculty.

There is department lore of darker days years back, but right now morale is horrible. We have about ten faculty left/leaving, most of whom are hardworking, clinically strong, and dedicated educators (and a couple of good riddance). The business structure of this place is complex, but basically about a year ago the hospital bought out the faculty group. Since then, the department has been progressively marginalized by both hospital administration and the university dean. On the one hand, the hospital is pushing for more clinical productivity with fewer resources, cutting staffing, nonclinical time, and budgets; on the other, the university is pushing for more academic productivity, using grants and publications as the measure. Attendings are overworked and feeling the squeeze, with everyone expecting us to do more with less. You’ll notice that nowhere in those productivity measures is education a priority.

That brings me to the second issue of faculty, the quality of this department’s educators. Northwestern is great at helping you pass boards, but its clinical direction is terrible. Let me tell you, there are a lot of anesthesiologists here who are scary freaks I’d never want touching even my in-laws. There’s the “airway team” here, which reminds me of those witches from Greek mythology--they cackle and fuss a lot but share just one eye, in this case a Glidescope. Suddenly I hit more advanced rotations as a CA2 and realized that no one had ever even taught me solid mask ventilation or direct laryngoscopy skills. The homeless-looking fiberoptic guru of the department exclusively uses the fiberoptic, and also always puts an A-line in even ASA1 patients. There’s the gyne anesthesiologist who’s certain to walk around the room and check patient positioning very carefully, especially when the stirrups are up.

Aside from the personalities, this is a huge department with a ton of sites to staff, so you’re essentially left to figure things out on your own for the entire first year. With so much pressure on clinical productivity, very few attendings in the general ORs spend any significant amount of time with you in the rooms. I start a case, then have to go see my next preop, wake up my other room, write some postop notes, give a break, etc. Basically, your entire CA1 year spent with the likes of the above is a waste. The saving grace of Northwestern is its subspecialty rotations. When you hit rotations like OB, cardiac, neuro, and critical care, you consistently work with a smaller group of people who are both clinically competent and educationally invested, for the most part. The problem is that when you hit these rotations, you’re so overwhelmed at having been so poorly prepared by that first year. Like I said, this place is great at helping residents with tests--there are plenty of very nice, gentle lecturers through CA1 year who help get the textbook stuff down. You know the saying--those who can, do; those who can’t, teach. The department is great about relieving residents for didactics and sim lab, but those settings don’t prepare you for being a functional anesthesiologist. Instead of CA2 rotations being exciting and challenging, they are overwhelming, scary, and defeating. I had so many thoughts of quitting during my CA2 year, in retrospect just because I had been ill-prepared by CA1 “educators.”

Don’t get me wrong--if you survive four years of training here, you’ll most likely be a solid clinician, pass your written and oral boards, and have great job options thanks to the Northwestern name. But until the department leadership makes some tough decisions--stand up to the hospital and university, hire better faculty and fire dead weight, reward those who do and teach--faculty will continue to feel overworked and bitter, which translates to residents who feel overworked and bitter.

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That brings me to the second issue of faculty, the quality of this department’s educators. Northwestern is great at helping you pass boards, but its clinical direction is terrible. Let me tell you, there are a lot of anesthesiologists here who are scary freaks I’d never want touching even my in-laws. There’s the “airway team” here, which reminds me of those witches from Greek mythology--they cackle and fuss a lot but share just one eye, in this case a Glidescope. Suddenly I hit more advanced rotations as a CA2 and realized that no one had ever even taught me solid mask ventilation or direct laryngoscopy skills. The homeless-looking fiberoptic guru of the department exclusively uses the fiberoptic, and also always puts an A-line in even ASA1 patients. There’s the gyne anesthesiologist who’s certain to walk around the room and check patient positioning very carefully, especially when the stirrups are up.
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That's kind of funny.

I had one of the latter.
 
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Not surprised. More folks should step up and give the real dish about their programs. If it affects the program's ability to match decent folks, maybe these program leaders will start giving a crap. Then again, they may not.
 
I didn't do my residency at Northwestern, but I am an attending here, so I thought I'd throw in my two cents. The OP makes a few good points about how changes in the business structure and pressure from bureaucrats who don't know the first thing about medicine are changing things in ways that people are unhappy about. But isn't that true just about everywhere? Businesses make money by screwing over the workers (in this case, doctors), not by cutting the CEO's and bureaucrats' salaries! It's probably not that much worse here than it is anywhere else…but I could be wrong...

One thing that I completely disagree with is that Northwestern is unique in having "scary freaks I’d never want touching even my in-laws." Are you kidding me? The OP clearly doesn't have much life experience. There are scary freaks in all walks of life and all kinds of professions, so a few of them are bound to be anesthesiologists. Jokes aside, it doesn't matter which anesthesiology residency program you go to, there are ALWAYS going to be a few old, eccentric, intense, careless, OCD, or just flat-out mean/malignant attendings that you have to work with. That's just how it is. I absolutely loved my residency program, but we had a handful of weirdos too. Everybody does. Suck it up! It's not that big of a deal. If anything, it'll add a little bit of excitement to your day and you'll come out of it with a hilarious story. Also, while I may not always agree with the "homeless-looking fiberoptic guru of the department," I can tell you that many residents I've spoken to would credit him for making them very skilled at fiberoptic intubation (a pretty important skill if you're looking to be clinically strong)...

The following statement is either hyperbole or the OP was just a slow learner until he/she became a CA-2 because it's not even a REMOTELY believable statement: "Suddenly I hit more advanced rotations as a CA2 and realized that no one had ever even taught me solid mask ventilation or direct laryngoscopy skills." Come on! Does anybody in their right mind believe that? With the amount of general OR time our CA-1s work, you'd have to be mentally challenged not to have decent mask ventilation skills after three months in the OR. I work with CA-1s just about everyday and there have only been a handful of times when one had trouble masking a patient who was actually an easy mask. I can assure you that there is no way that a resident is getting to CA-2 year without knowing how to mask ventilate. Direct laryngoscopy skills may actually vary from person to person, but still, with our clinical workload, residents are getting plenty of chances to intubate, and I've only had to take over easy intubations from CA-1s a few times, but that's part of the learning process anyway. I will agree that there may be an overemphasis on using the Glidescope on potential moderately difficult airways here, and I have tried to counteract that by having residents use Bougies and DL'ing first with Glide as a backup. One of my colleagues even teaches them how to use a lightwand for God's sake! Anyway, I think there are a few of us who really do try to let residents experiment with different strategies in the operating room, but I guess I can't speak to the overall experience that residents have with other faculty since I am relatively new here and I didn't do my residency here like the OP.

From what I've heard, residents here seem to enjoy CA-2 year more because the subspecialty rotations are more interesting after a long year of working hard in the general ORs. Yes, this program works residents pretty hard, but by the time they're CA-3's, I'd put most of my residents up against any resident in the nation. And shouldn't that be your goal when you're done with residency? To be the most capable, confident, "nothing-scares-me" anesthesiologist you can be? Well, you'll get that here because you're going to work hard and see it all...

My residency program had great clinical training, it was very resident friendly, and I don't think I was overworked at all, but guess what!? There were a handful of lazy complainers in EVERY SINGLE CLASS who were always unhappy no matter what. I'm not saying that's the case at Northwestern or that the OP is a lazy complainer...I'm just saying that residency can be overwhelming, and while some places are worse than others, you're going to work pretty hard just about anywhere you go…You can be miserable and post **** on message boards about how much you hate it, or you can try to be a positive person, deal with the stuff that's less-than-ideal by working through it, and enjoy the good things about your job because it's what you signed up to do.

Final comment…Besides making sure you go to a program that's going to teach you the skills necessary to be good at your job, I think the most important aspect of a program is whether there's good resident camaraderie to help get you through the tough days at work. There's nothing like the bonding you do with your residency friends at happy hour discussing interesting cases or what that one crazy faculty did today...Northwestern absolutely has that going for it. The residents here are a tight-knit group. Other people may be able to post more informed positive or negative opinions about this program than I can, but I think Northwestern is a pretty good place to train...
 
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Heard about this from some anesthesia colleagues and had to come check it out. I'm a surgeon at NU, and I gotta say, the overall morale of the place is at an all-time low. The hospital takeover is marginalizing everyone--nurses, physicians, mid-levels. What Graeae describes is true but unfortunately not unique to the anesthesia dept. And from what I've heard, there definitely are at least eight attendings leaving--the proof's in the numbers!

I can't comment on residency training here, but I did med school, residency, and fellowship at three different places, so I have worked with a lot of anesthesiologists. Though true that there are freaks in any field, this dept seems to have an especially high concentration. I have such a hard time getting through most my days because the few efficient and competent attendings who actually push to get cases done instead of being scared by ASA3s are mostly working in subspecialty rooms. And yes, Risnwb, there are gyne anesthesiologists here, but that's not the subspecialty I'm referring to. They even have a core of gen surg anesthesiologists here! As an outsider, It seems the problem starts with leadership that is never in the ORs and has no idea what goes on in the trenches.

Benignhyperthermia, as far as dogging OP for posting **** on message boards, you obviously think this meaningless vent deserves your long response. Irony? It's forums like this that let us all get the real scoop on programs, instead of just the whitewashed image that party people like you paint on interview day!
 
When I read this post (brought to my attention by a resident), the first word that came to mind was “outlier.” We have 70 attendings in our group, and I hope to convince you that graeae was only one angry voice. Many things said in the post are spiteful and cruel. To comment on the quirks of a group is one thing, but to mention such quirks to imply that Northwestern anesthesia attendings are a group of freaks, crosses the line.

We are a busy program, but keep in mind, graeae is not a current resident, but a graduate who graduated long enough ago to have done a fellowship, worked in another department, and return long enough to be unhappy (but not long enough to do anything but complain about it). I recommend talking to current residents to get the pulse of the true program.

I am an attending who trained at Northwestern. Over the past 10-15 years I have kept in touch with > 90% of our graduates who have left for fellowships and have entered either academic or private practice. I can say from my vast communications with our graduates that the views of graeae are not the views of the majority. Such contact with graduates has shown me the value of our training in real life situations.

I may not be able to convince the graeae that the other attendings and graduates do not agree with her assessment. I do request that the attacks not be so personal nor unprofessional in the future.
 
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Graeae, thank you for undermining your own credibility by continuing to resort to personal attacks. People might've taken your initial comments more seriously if you didn't come back and show us that you're mostly interested in taking potshots at your colleagues. Your lack of character is pretty appalling and unprofessional.

Hopefully, most folks who read this message board will realize that they shouldn't give your post too much consideration since you're clearly a disgruntled employee with an axe to grind.

It's fine to negatively critique the department and the residency program, but if you're gonna talk $hit about people and get personal, why don't you stop hiding behind the anonymity of this message board and tell us who you are?
 
Unfortunately no matter how unprofessional the OP is, Northwestern to me is a program id stay away from if a resident and now an attending are telling us these things. It's not like it's some outsiders it's people who are there and active.
 
I cannot help but notice that none of the current residents have come in defense of the program even though they are aware of the thread. That speaks volumes. Might be time for a change.
 
Yikes. I have specific complaints, but I would still pick my program again. At one point I was sad NW didn't extend an interview invitation. I guess I should be thankful, if this is the case.
 
I cannot help but notice that none of the current residents have come in defense of the program even though they are aware of the thread. That speaks volumes. Might be time for a change.

Or maybe we have decided not to post here and give legitimacy to trolls and this slander post.

I have nothing more to say about Northwestern that I have not already said it at my previous post. I will say that personally smearing a very fine attending and resident advocate under the anonymity of the internet is p*$%y move.

Focker out!
 
Again.....we JUST did this. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/northwestern-anesthesiology.1097633/. My colleagues are too smart and too busy to continue to attend to this nonsense. This is the second year in a row this has happened, conveniently during recruitment season. If you have the opportunity to interview at NW, you will see the quality and commitment. If the dysfunction was high, how would our CA-3s get the jobs and fellowships of their choice. Ask them. If we were dysfuctional, why do we spent alot of time together outside of work; residents, attendings, techs, and RNs. Applicants, I implore you to question what you read and get your data first hand, face-to-face with current residents.

By the way. I have zero incentive to defend this program. I already have a fantastic PP job lined up : )
 
I certainly believe the current and former residents and attendings who say that it is a fantastic place to train, but why are there so many threads with disgruntled residents and/or attendings venting their frustrations? There have been like three of these types of threads in the past year...far more common than any other program. That is what I find to be most concerning. While I understand those who create these types of threads may be a small percentage and outliers, it still seems odd that there are more at Northwestern who feel the need to voice their opinion in a public forum such as this than at other prestigious programs.
 
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Everyone is focusing on the mean-spirited personal attacks...but look at the positive things OP had to say!

"operative volume is tremendous, which means residents get to see a lot of different cases"
"All in all, the resident body, surgeons, and attendings here are actually quite nice"
"you consistently work with a smaller group of people who are both clinically competent and educationally invested"
"this place is great at helping residents with tests--there are plenty of very nice, gentle lecturers through CA1 year who help get the textbook stuff down"
"if you survive four years of training here, you’ll most likely be a solid clinician, pass your written and oral boards, and have great job options thanks to the Northwestern name."

Aside from the cruel japes, there is more than a shred of truth to this post. Seek your cushy "lifestyle" residency elsewhere - you will work, and work hard, if you come here. Would you rather graduate ill-prepared to handle whatever rolls through your OR door? I loved training here - and I think it speaks volumes that the positions vacated by current faculty are being flooded with applications from current CA-3s and fellows. If NMH is so horrendous and everyone is bitter...why are so many current trainees eager to stay? Also, although the departmental re-structuring may be the impetus for some faculty departures - others are leaving due to advancement opportunities at other academic centers. A pain and neuro attending are being hired as division chiefs at UIC and Duke, respectively. That's an offer you can't refuse... no matter how content you are in your current work environment.

Also, I doubt OP is faculty- more likely a recent graduate or fellow. If he truly were an attending he would know that teaching, although I suppose not technically a productivity measure, is rewarded both emotionally, through education awards, and financially, through faculty bonuses. Also, what attending would post on "student doctor network" belittling his current colleagues? That aside, it's clearly written by someone who did train here and had both positive and negative experiences at our program. Outside of the description of our attendings (the fiberoptic guru is actually quite brilliant and even had a little article published in Anesthesiology last month!), OP does make some solid points - especially in stating that you will have rough patches if you train here. If you didn't have a few grueling days in residency, however, you would be doing a disservice to your future patients.

Let me just say, I was happier than any of my medical school friends that completed anesthesiology residency at other top tier programs- but pick what's best for you! Happy interview season everyone! 🙂
 
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