The truth about Dean Frantz and Admission to Columbia

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quadcolumbian

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I hear all the time many myths about admission to P&S, so I thought I'd set the record straight once and for all.

So it's actually a misconception that Frantz hand picks the class. The way it works is that Frantz screens all candidates for an interview. Once someone has been selected for an interview, the admissions office staff randomly assigns them to one of the 30 committee members. In very rare cases, Frantz specifcally asks to interview someone after screening them, but maybe only one or two per year since he wants to interview an accurate cross-section of the entire applicant pool.

Each interviewer will not necessarily interview the same number of applicants. Frantz interviews the most since it's his full-time job, whereas the others are all busy faculty members. Then before the committee meeting in February, each committee member ranks their interviewees. Every year the number of students who are admitted in the first round is the same (250). If N students were interviewed, then 250/N is the fraction of interviewed students who are admitted. This fraction is then multiplied by the number of students each committee member interviewed to get a number, let's call it Q. Then the first Q students on that committee member's ranked-list are admitted.

Example: if Dr. Smith interviews 60 students and 1500 students are interviewed, then Q = 60*250/1500 = 10, so the first 10 of Dr. Smith's list of 60 students are admitted.

Frantz interviews the most, probably a few hundred, but he still gets the same proportion of admitted students as all other committee members.

After the first round, everyone is put on the waitlist according to the rank their interviewer originally gave them. Then it really does become Dr. Frantz's game. About 30 to 50 students (for a class of 150) will eventually be admitted off of the waitlist. The only way this happens is if the student expresses that P&S is his or her first choice. Dr. Frantz will frequently give waitlisted students a second interview if they ask for one, and then often even offers them admission during their second interview (I know of several current students who had this happen to them as well as others who received a letter later). Second interviews can often help waitlisted students because then Frantz gets to evaulate them himself, and it's unlikely that they can hurt. Frantz also likes to know that students who come to P&S have turned down other top schools. So if P&S is your first choice, and you've been admitted to Yale, writing a letter saying that you have been admitted to Yale but are hoping to get off the waitlist at P&S will probably help you.

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quadcolumbian said:
. Frantz also likes to know that students who come to P&S have turned down other top schools.


Wait - what's this called? Oh yeah, elitism.
 
MB in SD said:
Wait - what's this called? Oh yeah, elitism.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Why don't they just decide on whom they think would be best and not worry about whether the other top med schools agreed?
 
Thank You. I especially appreciated the equations with variables. (I may not go to Columbia, but I do enjoy a good algebra problem now and again.) You have verified what I have been suspecting for some time -- Columbia P&S is the Skull and Bones of medical schools. Now I'm concerned you'll have an unfortunate 'accident' in the near future for providing us with that insight into the P&S selection process ...
 
quadcolumbian said:
Then the first Q students on that committee member's ranked-list are admitted.

Thanks for the insight. Good to know. Does anyone know of any other schools that operate similarly in that the top-ranked students of each committee member are admitted?
 
Does writing a letter of intent pre-decision help you avoid the waitlist even if you were not ranked high enough to be accepted right away? Or does it play no role until after the wait list? Also, do people get rejected after the interview or is that rare? Thanks for the info!
 
mashce said:
That's kind of what I was thinking. Why don't they just decide on whom they think would be best and not worry about whether the other top med schools agreed?
I think what he was getting at is that CU assumes you have interviewed at other top schools and if you turn them down you are more likely going to accept a CU offer.
 
MB in SD said:
Wait - what's this called? Oh yeah, elitism.
It's a game, and everyone needs to play if they want to win. I believe schools can find out where the students they accepted actually matriculated, and if all the top schools find out they're losing lots of students to P&S, then that makes P&S look better.

It also says that a student really wants YOUR school if they're willing to give up a spot at another well-recognized school. Of course you'd rather go to P&S than Generic State Medical College. But would you rather go to P&S than Duke or Stanford? That would actually say something about your apparently fervent interest in the school.
 
I'm totally going to email Dr. Frantz and tell him that I turned down an interview to Saint Louis University because I know that I would prefer Columbia over SLU. That'll get me in, won't it? 😉
 
What do people think about writing a letter of intent pre-waitlist? Or does that make you sound desperate?
 
bug22catch said:
What do people think about writing a letter of intent pre-waitlist? Or does that make you sound desperate?

I would think you'd seem more desperate AFTER you got on the waitlist. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your question.

To everyone: If Columbia is your top choice, tell them so. If not, not. Given that the proverbial cat's out of the bag, I don't think that one letter out of thousands of others will really swing the odds in your favor.
 
SarahGM said:
To everyone: If Columbia is your top choice, tell them so. If not, not. Given that the proverbial cat's out of the bag, I don't think that one letter out of thousands of others will really swing the odds in your favor.
The only thing that would hold me back from doing that is $$$. How can you make any decisions before knowing what your financial aid package is going to be? I mean I know what my top choice is if money was not an issue. Just like I know what I would do with $1 million (and no its not be a janitor). But I dont want to go >$250,000 in debt.

Suggestions with letters of intent in this case?
 
Bernito said:
The only thing that would hold me back from doing that is $$$. How can you make any decisions before knowing what your financial aid package is going to be? I mean I know what my top choice is if money was not an issue. Just like I know what I would do with $1 million (and no its not be a janitor). But I dont want to go >$250,000 in debt.

Suggestions with letters of intent in this case?

I think I would write a letter of intent along the lines of, "I would absolutely attend Columbia P&S upon an offer of admission, as long as it were financially viable for me to do so."

In fact... hmmm... I think that's actually what I *did* say!

But not to worry... Columbia ended up being cheaper than my state school (UNC). I really think we have a stellar office of financial affairs. I truly believe that if they want you to come, they'll make it happen for you. And as far as I know, admissions are need-blind (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
 
SarahGM said:
I think I would write a letter of intent along the lines of, "I would absolutely attend Columbia P&S upon an offer of admission, as long as it were financially viable for me to do so."

In fact... hmmm... I think that's actually what I *did* say!

But not to worry... Columbia ended up being cheaper than my state school (UNC). I really think we have a stellar office of financial affairs. I truly believe that if they want you to come, they'll make it happen for you. And as far as I know, admissions are need-blind (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
Thanks Sarah.

This sounds like more like a letter of interest, depending on how you word it. But I think I am going to do it.

Would doing it via email be frowned upon?
 
Bernito said:
Thanks Sarah.

This sounds like more like a letter of interest, depending on how you word it. But I think I am going to do it.

Would doing it via email be frowned upon?

I don't think it would be frowned upon. But I do think a handwritten letter is more gracious and might carry a little more weight.
 
SarahGM said:
I don't think it would be frowned upon. But I do think a handwritten letter is more gracious and might carry a little more weight.
Sarah (or any other current student) can you answer me a question about housing? When I visited I got to see a 4 bedroom in the towers and it was really spacious and good quality. Are the 1 bedrooms for couples similar? 🙂
 
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