These forums are depressing

[Jccripe]

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So I am on my surgery rotation as an M3. I always thought that surg was what I wanted and now I am very aware of the de-glorified reality. Surg is boring the lifestyle is repetitive and machine like. I have slowly been diggin anesthesia. I am constantly worried about vitals and the lungs of our critical patients that undergo surgery. I really think anesthesia is great. All the procedures and critical care seem appealing to me. However, all the post here are making this field seem like it is dried out and dying. It seems depressing because I am finally really leaning on a specialty but there is so much crap about CRNAs and Reimbursing crap ugh... Any positive or uplifting comments

 

[DrDre']

Man, there is always something to be doom and gloom about. My dad has been thinking the sky is falling his whole life. Plenty of yucky things going on but it is all about attitude and endurance.

There are serious concerns in many specialties and in health care in general.

Find what you like. What you are willing to do 70 hours a week and for 150k a year and do it. IF this is anesthesia, great.

Hopefully you will work less than this and make way more money.



I wasnt sure if anesthesia was the right choice for me as an M4. I thought long and hard but I was worried it wouldn't be quite right for me.

I can now say I really enjoy my job. I have bad days but I enjoy it 98% of the time. It is work, afterall.

So I am on my surgery rotation as an M3. I always thought that surg was what I wanted and now I am very aware of the de-glorified reality. Surg is boring the lifestyle is repetitive and machine like. I have slowly been diggin anesthesia. I am constantly worried about vitals and the lungs of our critical patients that undergo surgery. I really think anesthesia is great. All the procedures and critical care seem appealing to me. However, all the post here are making this field seem like it is dried out and dying. It seems depressing because I am finally really leaning on a specialty but there is so much crap about CRNAs and Reimbursing crap ugh... Any positive or uplifting comments

 

[militarymd]

yes, it does suck.

That's right...for the most part, a nurse can do what you do.....

yes, your/our income is going down.

...

seriously...If I had to choose ALL OVER again..I wouldn't have become a physician...

and If I were to be a physician again....I would become a spine surgeon...or whatever kind of surgeon....so that the hospital is kissing my ass to come to the hospital and work....and not the other way around.

 

[deleted50478]

yes, it does suck.

That's right...for the most part, a nurse can do what you do.....

yes, your/our income is going down.

...

seriously...If I had to choose ALL OVER again..I wouldn't have become a physician...

and If I were to be a physician again....I would become a spine surgeon...or whatever kind of surgeon....so that the hospital is kissing my ass to come to the hospital and work....and not the other way around.

You could teach a nurse, or PA, or someone smart off the street, to do surgery too. This isn't unique to anesthesia. What is unique is that we are following in the footsteps of sell-outs and other specialties aren't.

 

[foxtrot]

yes, it does suck.

That's right...for the most part, a nurse can do what you do.....

yes, your/our income is going down.

...

seriously...If I had to choose ALL OVER again..I wouldn't have become a physician...

and If I were to be a physician again....I would become a spine surgeon...or whatever kind of surgeon....so that the hospital is kissing my ass to come to the hospital and work....and not the other way around.

I agree. I would not have chosen medicine at all. I would have gone to dental school if I had to do it over. I have a couple of friends who are orthodontists and they love every minute of their job (probably because they only work 4 days a week and most everyone is cash pay and happy once their pearly whites are straight). The endodontist who did my root canal had shoes that were worth more than my car.

 

[old_boy]

.

 

[militarymd]

You guys are lame. Lame!!

I'm not saying that medicine is all sunshine and roses, but other careers have their problems. I worked on Wall Street before going to med school, and plenty of unhappy people there who say "If I had to choose ALL OVER I would have gone to med school." The grass is always greener. My experience is that that some of the happiest docs are the ones that had other careers first and appreciate how good docs have it, despite all of the **** involved with the profession.

To the OP, I am also an MS3. None of the anesthesiologists at my school seem all that worried, although most admit that compensation will go down over the course our our careers. But this is not a problem unique to anesthesiology.

So, what you're saying is that you really don't know jack......because you ARE just a student....and the only POV is from academic gas guys who don't really know jack either about PP land....

but despite that fact that you come from a POV where you don't know jack...you'll make a disparaging comment anyways...

ok....as long as we have it all straight.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

So, what you're saying is that you really don't know jack......because you ARE just a student....and the only POV is from academic gas guys who don't really know jack either about PP land....

but despite that fact that you come from a POV where you don't know jack...you'll make a disparaging comment anyways...

ok....as long as we have it all straight.

So someone who has had another career and can compare/contrast is coming from a POV where he doesn't know jack about career satisfaction? Don't know about that...

He has a valid point. You could have a job that entails sitting on golden pillows eating grapes while gorgeous women scratch your ass all day, all while making $1mil a year, and someone would find a way to complain about it.

I think it really depends on your personality. If you're gloom and doom, then our country won't exist in 5 years anyway because health care reform will leave us in a post-apocalyptic society. If you're bunnies and daisies, you'll be happy working for free just because you love the experience.

Most people are likely in the middle. Yes, there are problems with the field, as there are with any fields, but there are ways to work around/through it. If you're expecting $600k and a huge ego boost, anesthesia might not be the field for you anymore. In fact, as mentioned previously, medicine in general might not be the field for you. But there's still lots to like about it and plenty of people who enjoy it.

 

[Apollyon]

The endodontist who did my root canal had shoes that were worth more than my car.

The only downside is that it is root canals all day every day, with NOTHING ever different. If you can do that and not get bored to tears, then the $$ is unbeatable legally.

 

[hoyden]

Man, there is always something to be doom and gloom about. My dad has been thinking the sky is falling his whole life. Plenty of yucky things going on but it is all about attitude and endurance.

There are serious concerns in many specialties and in health care in general.

Find what you like. What you are willing to do 70 hours a week and for 150k a year and do it. IF this is anesthesia, great.

Hopefully you will work less than this and make way more money.



I wasnt sure if anesthesia was the right choice for me as an M4. I thought long and hard but I was worried it wouldn't be quite right for me.

I can now say I really enjoy my job. I have bad days but I enjoy it 98% of the time. It is work, afterall.

The most uplifting comment, right?

 

[badasshairday]

I don't get how a current attending could be comparing his/her salary to a dental specialist. Come on guys, you are making 300-500K per year, which is similar to what those dental specialists make. Is it really all about money and lifestyle? I thought these forums were talking about not wanting anymore lifestylers in anesthesiology... BTW, as an anesthesiologist (currently speaking, who knows about the future) you have a pretty damn good lifestyle and $. Really, you don't measure your work with $ alone.

Mil, i think it is a grass is greener on the otherside phenomenon. Everyone thinks that. Also you express frustrations that are just inherent to the field of anesthesiology. Yeah, surgeons get there butts kissed by the hospital, and you guys don't. If you were a surgeon, the inherent frustration could be lack of time for doing anything besides operating.

I don't know guys, just trying to be a little optimistic here.

 

[Narcotized]

If I were to be a physician again....I would become a spine surgeon...or whatever kind of surgeon....so that the hospital is kissing my ass to come to the hospital and work....and not the other way around.

Man, ain't that the truth. When I was an ER attending I was expected to suck somebody's wingwang all day long while admitting physicians would often come in and treat people like crap and get their wingwang sucked in return. I'm not much of a wingwang sucker so ER became a pretty unpleasant experience. I knew anesthesia would be somewhat similar in that respect, but I just like this specialty better than the rest.

 

[Planktonmd]

yes, it does suck.

That's right...for the most part, a nurse can do what you do.....

yes, your/our income is going down.

...

seriously...If I had to choose ALL OVER again..I wouldn't have become a physician...

and If I were to be a physician again....I would become a spine surgeon...or whatever kind of surgeon....so that the hospital is kissing my ass to come to the hospital and work....and not the other way around.

I actually (and surprisingly) agree with everything you have said here.

 

[foxtrot]

You guys are lame. Lame!!

I'm not saying that medicine is all sunshine and roses, but other careers have their problems. I worked on Wall Street before going to med school, and plenty of unhappy people there who say "If I had to choose ALL OVER I would have gone to med school." The grass is always greener. My experience is that that some of the happiest docs are the ones that had other careers first and appreciate how good docs have it, despite all of the **** involved with the profession.

To the OP, I am also an MS3. None of the anesthesiologists at my school seem all that worried, although most admit that compensation will go down over the course our our careers. But this is not a problem unique to anesthesiology.

I love the way you, a medical student, is calling board certified and fellowship trained PP anesthesiologists " lame" because we are telling it like it is. The bottom line is that what is "lame" is not listening to the advice of those who are actually out in the real world dealing with significant issues concerning insurance companies, medicare/medicaid, obamacare, malpractice, and CRNA's. I hate to say it but many academic anesthesiologists are shielded from the real world and don't have a clue what is going on out in the PP world because they are salaried and protected from the lawsuit world. I am not saying there are not some good folks out there in academics but it is different. I wish that someone would have told me these things when I was in medical school. So before you go shooting your inexperienced mouth off, you should do some research outside of the academic world. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on this forum and just because you don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't mean it is "lame."

 

[Jccripe]

So much Doom and Gloom that I can make out what is a real threat and what is Bull S**t. If you did a Pain or Critical care fellowship then are the CRNAs still in competition with you. My interest with anesthesia was working in an SICU. When do you see doom coming 5,10,15 years? Where is the line between anesthesia and CRNA and how do you think this will actually change. I have a hard time see every anesthesiologist being replace by CRNAs.

 

[deleted50478]

So much Doom and Gloom that I can make out what is a real threat and what is Bull S**t. If you did a Pain or Critical care fellowship then are the CRNAs still in competition with you. My interest with anesthesia was working in an SICU. When do you see doom coming 5,10,15 years? Where is the line between anesthesia and CRNA and how do you think this will actually change. I have a hard time see every anesthesiologist being replace by CRNAs.

There is not a real risk of physicians being replaced by nurses. Even if they could, most hospitals wouldn't suddenly start staffing the OR without physician supervision, real anesthesiologist supervision, and even if the hospitals wanted to use unsupervised nurses, there wouldn't be enough to go around. Nurses replacing doctors is not even plausible. Worst case scenario is that we are considered in a common employment pool so the salary difference narrows.

 

[sevo85288]

OP, don't get discouraged. These forums are depressing and mostly junk.(sorry guys) There are thousands of happy anesthesiologists in the US and there will be thousands more. Do what you like because most likely, you will be good at it. If you are a good physician and love your job, you will always do well. You can see from some of the attitudes, replies on this board why some people are inherently unhappy.

All specialities have there issues. My best buddy cardiologist was just complaining about getting $200 to place a pacer and my OB/GYN friend got $80 to do hysterectomy from our lovely medicaid system in CA. My pulm/CC friend can't find weekend coverage so he is having family issues and our surgeons friends are tired of being on call q3 and dealing with mentally deranged families. You get the picture...The happiest of them all are the pediatricians making 120K/yr...go figure. It is never just about $$$....but your friends, family, attitude etc.

 

[cfdavid]

So someone who has had another career and can compare/contrast is coming from a POV where he doesn't know jack about career satisfaction? Don't know about that...

He has a valid point. You could have a job that entails sitting on golden pillows eating grapes while gorgeous women scratch your ass all day, all while making $1mil a year, and someone would find a way to complain about it.

I think it really depends on your personality. If you're gloom and doom, then our country won't exist in 5 years anyway because health care reform will leave us in a post-apocalyptic society. If you're bunnies and daisies, you'll be happy working for free just because you love the experience.

Most people are likely in the middle. Yes, there are problems with the field, as there are with any fields, but there are ways to work around/through it. If you're expecting $600k and a huge ego boost, anesthesia might not be the field for you anymore. In fact, as mentioned previously, medicine in general might not be the field for you. But there's still lots to like about it and plenty of people who enjoy it.

Hey, you can be a doom and gloomer on the U.S. economy, and stay relatively happy about becoming a doctor and future anesthesiologist! I too came from a different career. So, I've seen the "other side". Human nature (as you know) tends toward the grass-is-greener phenomenon.

 

[cfdavid]

OP, don't get discouraged. These forums are depressing and mostly junk.(sorry guys) There are thousands of happy anesthesiologists in the US and there will be thousands more. Do what you like because most likely, you will be good at it. If you are a good physician and love your job, you will always do well. You can see from some of the attitudes, replies on this board why some people are inherently unhappy.

All specialities have there issues. My best buddy cardiologist was just complaining about getting $200 to place a pacer and my OB/GYN friend got $80 to do hysterectomy from our lovely medicaid system in CA. My pulm/CC friend can't find weekend coverage so he is having family issues and our surgeons friends are tired of being on call q3 and dealing with mentally deranged families. You get the picture...The happiest of them all are the pediatricians making 120K/yr...go figure. It is never just about $$$....but your friends, family, attitude etc.

Amen.👍👍

 

[Surfer]

I don't get how a current attending could be comparing his/her salary to a dental specialist. Come on guys, you are making 300-500K per year, which is similar to what those dental specialists make. Is it really all about money and lifestyle? I thought these forums were talking about not wanting anymore lifestylers in anesthesiology... BTW, as an anesthesiologist (currently speaking, who knows about the future) you have a pretty damn good lifestyle and $. Really, you don't measure your work with $ alone. .

Wait until you are the one responsible. We deal wtih life and death daily. We work easily twice as many hours as a dental specialist and with infinite more risk and responsibility.

You can say it's not about the $$. But the truth is, it is about the $$. Everything has a price. And everything has a value. And as reimbursement comes down, the work we do becomes less and less worth doing. As less people find it worth doing, less qualified individuals pick up the vacancies. Healthcare suffers. Patients get worse care.

Who do you want doing your mom's brain surgery? The guy that makes a million dollars per year in Houston or the guy who makes 100k/yr in mexico city (but REALLY REALLY loves his patients and his work)?? I'll take guy who gets paid a lot for his work.

 

[cfdavid]

Wait until you are the one responsible. We deal wtih life and death daily. We work easily twice as many hours as a dental specialist and with infinite more risk and responsibility.

You can say it's not about the $$. But the truth is, it is about the $$. Everything has a price. And everything has a value. And as reimbursement comes down, the work we do becomes less and less worth doing. As less people find it worth doing, less qualified individuals pick up the vacancies. Healthcare suffers. Patients get worse care.
Who do you want doing your mom's brain surgery? The guy that makes a million dollars per year in Houston or the guy who makes 100k/yr in mexico city (but REALLY REALLY loves his patients and his work)?? I'll take guy who gets paid a lot for his work.

To your point, Step scores continue going up and PD's are reporting record #'s of applicants. Sure, some are predicting a grisly next decade or so, which could unwind all this, but...... I'm constantly hearing how encouged PD's are feeling with the high #'s of increasingly qualified applicants.

This could only be good for the profession.

Then again, they might all just be flattering us on the interview trail, which is a distinct possibility. However, the stats suggest the opposite.

 

[militarymd]

To your point, Step scores continue going up and PD's are reporting record #'s of applicants. Sure, some are predicting a grisly next decade or so, which could unwind all this, but...... I'm constantly hearing how encouged PD's are feeling with the high #'s of increasingly qualified applicants.

This could only be good for the profession.

Then again, they might all just be flattering us on the interview trail, which is a distinct possibility. However, the stats suggest the opposite.

simple....they are insulated from the rest of the world.

AND there is a major time lag in supply and demand.....ie demand is NOW...and supply lags at a minimum 6 years because of the application and training cycle.


and back to my thread about the ASA and the RAND study.

Ohhh....we're going to have a real shortage...


but ....in real life.....crap...I can't get a job where I want.

 

[indo]

At my interviews, I've asked the program directors what is happening with the anesthesiology job market then listened to them stumble uncomfortably through some explaination that involved, "we may need to change our role in the hospital but we will still be around." Great.


On a side note, one of the seniors here at our program has signed a 7 year contract for nearly .75 million per year...general anesthesia.

 

[old_boy]

So, what you're saying is that you really don't know jack...

So before you go shooting your inexperienced mouth...

I apologize for the name calling. I was out of line. My comment was not intended in the spirit with which it was taken. It is true, I am inexperienced when it comes to the pros and cons of private practice anesthesia.

The OP and I are in similar situations in that we're both 3rd years considering anesthesia. But on the other hand, I think I have an added perspective given that I had a career before going to med school and have seen "the grass is always greener" phenomenon from both inside and outside of Medicine (and Wall Street). My suggestion is that those looking for career advice not take as gospel the dissuasions of a couple of anonymous posters on an internet forum. I appreciate your points of view and I'm sorry if I offended. But I'm not just some kid shooting my mouth off.

 

[BLADEMDA]

At my interviews, I've asked the program directors what is happening with the anesthesiology job market then listened to them stumble uncomfortably through some explaination that involved, "we may need to change our role in the hospital but we will still be around." Great.


On a side note, one of the seniors here at our program has signed a 7 year contract for nearly .75 million per year...general anesthesia.

Sign on Bonus? Guaranteed if they fire him? Was he a first round pick?

So, they are going to pay him that money for 7 years regardless of what happens in health care?

 

[Jeff05]

Sign on Bonus? Guaranteed if they fire him? Was he a first round pick?

So, they are going to pay him that money for 7 years regardless of what happens in health care?

that job is absolute bu11****. doesn't exist. 750k to start? with a 7 year contract? that doesn't even make sense.
i mean, is he going to dubai (well not anymore i guess)!?

 

[Arch Guillotti]

On a side note, one of the seniors here at our program has signed a 7 year contract for nearly .75 million per year...general anesthesia.

What he didn't tell you that this job is in BFE, 140 hours a week with lots of call and you are supervising 4 rooms every second that you are there.

Seriously though, I think he is BS'ing.

 

[militarymd]

I apologize for the name calling. I was out of line. My comment was not intended in the spirit with which it was taken. It is true, I am inexperienced when it comes to the pros and cons of private practice anesthesia.

The OP and I are in similar situations in that we're both 3rd years considering anesthesia. But on the other hand, I think I have an added perspective given that I had a career before going to med school and have seen "the grass is always greener" phenomenon from both inside and outside of Medicine (and Wall Street). My suggestion is that those looking for career advice not take as gospel the dissuasions of a couple of anonymous posters on an internet forum. I appreciate your points of view and I'm sorry if I offended. But I'm not just some kid shooting my mouth off.

if you knew me, you would know that I wasn't offended...and that after I call you a name for disagreeing with me, I would then slap you on the back and buy you a drink.

 

[militarymd]

At my interviews, I've asked the program directors what is happening with the anesthesiology job market then listened to them stumble uncomfortably through some explaination that involved, "we may need to change our role in the hospital but we will still be around." Great.


On a side note, one of the seniors here at our program has signed a 7 year contract for nearly .75 million per year...general anesthesia.

The senior is bs'ing you because we didn't hire anyone recently.