Thoughts on Duke, southern programs

[Wladimir2]

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I've been viewing for about a year. I'm a 3rd year med student, first time posting, looking at southern psychiatry programs. Trying to plan audition months.

I've read through lots of older threads. I went to Duke as an undergraduate, love the area, would like to return. Girlfriend from the area too.

So, I just haven't seen or heard much about Duke's psych program. People say the pd is nice. Outside of that, I know nothing about it. A couple of people have told me that Capel Hill is stronger? Really?

How is Duke viewed in academic circles? I'm interested in academic medicine. I want to teach/research. Faculty mention MGH, Columbia to me, but they generally have no opinion about Duke or any southern programs. I'm at a top med school, high step 1, haven't taken 2 yet.

So, what's the truth? I think it's naive to think that there are only a few good programs that will position me for an academic career. Is Duke considered a top program or is it just okay?

Sorry for the long first time post.

 

[billypilgrim37]

Duke and Emory each have excellent national reputations for both clinical and research training, though both of their child programs are thin, which disqualified each for me. MUSC has traditionally been a strong clinical program. Vandy and UNC are "up-and-comers" that may one day develop strong overall research faculty, but aren't quite there yet. Clinical training at any of these five would be top notch. UNC probably has the best developed child program in the south. The latter 3 have strong "regional" reputations, but the names fade quickly outside of the South.

My perception of the the southern programs is that very few people from outside of the south want to move to the south, and many of the top students from the south would prefer to take their chance to move to the upper east coast or California. Thus, there's a bit of a brain drain. The best southern programs do attract some wonderful residents, but overall, they struggle to recruit. I think it's safe to say that the "resident strength" to "program strength" ratio is less favorable relative to other top programs in Boston, New York, Cali, etc. The same is relatively true for some of the very strong Midwestern programs as well, though maybe not as much as in the South. Again, it's not to say the residents aren't strong, but there may be some weaker links relatively speaking, if only in terms of their pre-residency "competitiveness."

If we were estimating "rank", I'd think Duke would be in the "top 10-15ish" area, Emory "top 20ish," and UNC somewhere in the "20s." Those are still some darn good programs. And I'm sorry I used so many quotation marks in that post!

 

[pillion]

I've been viewing for about a year. I'm a 3rd year med student, first time posting, looking at southern psychiatry programs. Trying to plan audition months.

I've read through lots of older threads. I went to Duke as an undergraduate, love the area, would like to return. Girlfriend from the area too.

So, I just haven't seen or heard much about Duke's psych program. People say the pd is nice. Outside of that, I know nothing about it. A couple of people have told me that Capel Hill is stronger? Really?

How is Duke viewed in academic circles? I'm interested in academic medicine. I want to teach/research. Faculty mention MGH, Columbia to me, but they generally have no opinion about Duke or any southern programs. I'm at a top med school, high step 1, haven't taken 2 yet.

So, what's the truth? I think it's naive to think that there are only a few good programs that will position me for an academic career. Is Duke considered a top program or is it just okay?

Sorry for the long first time post.

I don't know what the reputation is among people involved in academics, but their graduates go into fellowships at top programs and get great academic positions, so that doesn't seem to be a problem. However, graduates from UNC also go into great fellowships and get great academic positions. The programs may be comparable, but I just clicked well with some of the people at Duke. Also, Duke might get more money for research, if that's your thing. Nonetheless, I'd probably be just as happy at UNC.

 

[atsai3]

So, I just haven't seen or heard much about Duke's psych program. People say the pd is nice. Outside of that, I know nothing about it. A couple of people have told me that Capel Hill is stronger? Really?

How is Duke viewed in academic circles? I'm interested in academic medicine. I want to teach/research. Faculty mention MGH, Columbia to me, but they generally have no opinion about Duke or any southern programs. I'm at a top med school, high step 1, haven't taken 2 yet.

So, what's the truth? I think it's naive to think that there are only a few good programs that will position me for an academic career. Is Duke considered a top program or is it just okay?

Grace Thrall is one of the best program directors in the business.

Clinically, the experience there is okay. Their therapy training is kind of unique (one-way mirror, with your faculty supervisor and the rest of your supervision group on the other side, and they can call in with suggestions / you can call out when you need help). The inpatient experience is not that great. A lot of your inpatient months and call experiences will take place at John Umstead, the mental health hospital that serves a 16-county region. There you are fairly unsupervised, and the diagnoses are not terribly varied (just lots of chronic mental illness folks off meds; call nights are brutal and the residents kind of sink into an assembly line kind of mentality). The PGY4 year is completely flexible in terms of elective time, which is a huge plus if you are intending to go into a research career.

Duke would be a great place if you are interested in research. It is a huge department with a big tent and a lot of research money flowing in, so if you have nonspecific interests and are looking for a place where you can differentiate after medical school and before fellowship, then Duke (along with large psych research hubs like UCLA and Columbia) would be a good place to be. In terms of its reputation, if you want to go into research, then your research training (and output) during residency and the quality of your faculty mentors will be much more important for "positioning" you than the overall branding of the institution. There are a lot of people doing drug trials, but there are also a lot of people doing services and systems research there too. One caveat is that UNC has a much stronger health services / epidemiology base, although there is really only one psychiatrist who does HSR/epi stuff.

I would echo what one of the previous posters commented regarding its location. Durham is in the south, and it's hard to draw people from big cities in the northeast or west coast. Consequently, the average quality of the residents is lower than what you would find at a branded institution in a city like Boston or New York. Hopkins suffers from the same kind of baggage.

-AT.

 

[Thewonderer]

Both Duke and UNC have fine reputations. MUSC and Emory are the other two big programs in the South. Psychiatry seems to be more respected at UNC than at Duke (at Duke, Surgery and Internal Medicine depts rule). You should be fine either way.

However, remember, your residency experience will be VASTLY different than your undergraduate experience. I don't know if going back to Duke to recapture your youthful days is such a good idea (even if your gf is from that area).