Thoughts on quitting medical school

[Crow King]

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Did you seriously not think about these things before you started medicine? Geez i can only feel sorry for the person who really wanted to do medicine and wasn't able to because you took their spot.

He didn't take anyones spot. He got it, what he wants to do with it is up to him.

OP: if you are going to leave you should know exactly what it is you want to do once you leave. Obvious but your first post didn't say much about it other than it probably doesn't exist anymore.

 

[NeuroChris]

Already in my first year I started to seriously dislike med school, and have recently been thinking about quitting altogether. I'm currently starting my second year. I would like to give some of my reasons for why I feel this way, and would love if you could give me some feedback and/or share thoughts of your own regarding some of my points.

*First off, I feel like medicine will get more boring as you progress. It feels great to learn new complex things every day, but once you're done, i feel like it's going to be assembly line-work for the rest of my life. Research is overrated, since any contribution you will make as an individual is a drop in the ocean.

*Second, in medicine you work ALL THE TIME. I'm not talking about hours, but the intensity of those hours. You have appointments and in between there's the paperwork. In other lines of work, you have a lot of breaks, time to talk to colleagues over coffee, leave the office to grab lunch, etc. It leaves you much more relaxed once you're done working, and you have more time to pursue whatever it is you like to do.

*Third, hospitals are not fun places to work. Even when you get used to body fluids and all the drama etc. (not a big deal for me really), it's still not a great environment. People are stressed and take it out on you, buildings usually not that great, etc.

*Fourth, you're expected to do very well in every situation. And anything below that is not good enough. In other lines of work, doing ok is the equivalent of very well in medicine. And if you actually do very well, you will get rewarded. Don't know if this one makes sense.

*Fifth, no offense to anyone, but I don't find people in medicine that exciting. People that did other majors than pre-med in college, always had some exciting things going on, and still do now that they're working. One guy was in a band, another worked on a novel, another wrote for a travel magazine, etc. In med school people study and work out and that's pretty much it. Not a diverse crowd and not really living their lives. Also, a lot of med students feel like medicine is the only thing worth doing in life, even if they hate it.

I may add some more points later on.

PS I have no debt (mentioning it since it's always an issue in these posts)

PS2! Just a note to some of the people commenting: I worked for two years after college. And it was not a position where I could procrastinate or slack. It was demanding and well paid (100K). Had prestige as well. Yet, there was always time for a break, always time to grab lunch out of the office, always 30-60 minutes here and there where you could do nothing but wait (while getting paid) and do whatever you liked. I would go back in a heartbeat, except that the position got cut back in '09 and there aren't many like it.

If you want a well paying job, then you have to study. you have to work for it, . Medicine is the most financially secure job out there. It is very unlikely to see an unemployed Doctor. (unless if hes a quack.) out on the streets. If you dont take the medical or law route...you will most likely work a 9-5 job and see yourself unemployed a few years from now for doing something unlawful. thats when you will start having regrets about the time when you left Med school in search for a better lifestyle, better job, better everything, you might even see one of your class mates from med school, you will see that he has become this very successful cardiovascular surgeon( im just spitballin here😉) and he has an amazing family and a very nice home.and then you say to yourself " man!, i wanted to be a cardiovascular surgeon too.. if i never pussied out i could be just as successful if not, more than him".. man you gotta have balls( that sac that dangles from your crotch.or cojones ) to go into medicine. and if you dont have balls, then medicine is not for you, and frankly, you dont have balls. im sorry to say it but you dont have it. If you want nice things in this life, then you gotta work for them. nothing is free, nothing is handed to you just like that.. if you want to live the rest of your life doing nothing then by all means go for it... just my 0.02$

 

[HumbleMD]

He didn't take anyones spot. He got it, what he wants to do with it is up to him.

OP: if you are going to leave you should know exactly what it is you want to do once you leave. Obvious but your first post didn't say much about it other than it probably doesn't exist anymore.

False. And myopic. They are spots. A lot of people, schools, and even tax-payers are investing in each medical student "spot" with the assumption that the student in it will serve the general public's health and welfare. Quitting would be a waste of resources (but better now than midway through residency). I'm not one of those sacrifice your life to be an unselfish doctor types, but I am the type to get impatient with kids making it to the first, or even fourth year surprised that medicine is a difficult field where you have to work hard, study, and work long hours without fantastic pay.

 

[Crow King]

False. And myopic. They are spots. A lot of people, schools, and even tax-payers are investing in each medical student "spot" with the assumption that the student in it will serve the general public's health and welfare. Quitting would be a waste of resources (but better now than midway through residency). I'm not one of those sacrifice your life to be an unselfish doctor types, but I am the type to get impatient with kids making it to the first, or even fourth year surprised that medicine is a difficult field where you have to work hard, study, and work long hours without fantastic pay.

You hear all the time how medical schools and doctors and residents owe medical students nothing. That's true. And in this case, so is the reverse true.

The medical student doesn't have to justify his reason for leaving to anyone. Maybe the OP's decision for leaving medicine isn't the best one, but you know what?

He still doesn't owe anyone jack **** for being offered that spot. How do I know this? Watch him leave now and there isn't a god damn thing anyone can do to stop him.

 

[Jack is Back]

You hear all the time how medical schools and doctors and residents owe medical students nothing. That's true. And in this case, so is the reverse true.

The medical student doesn't have to justify his reason for leaving to anyone. Maybe the OP's decision for leaving medicine isn't the best one, but you know what?

He still doesn't owe anyone jack **** for being offered that spot. How do I know this? Watch him leave now and there isn't a god damn thing anyone can do to stop him.

Typically I wouldn't agree with some of your stances, but I agree on this one.

I hear all the time how we "owe" people something. Guess what, we are paying 200-300k for an education that we have to work our assess off on a daily basis, forego a lot of free time available in other fields, and make other sacrifices. I don't think a medical student owes anyone anything, they have worked for their spot and it was given to them.

With all that said, I do like to contribute to my school because I feel it's a good school and I want to help. But I've never felt like I owed them anything. Also, the whole "Government paying for your education" argument is lame.

Do you realize how much money the government makes off of healthcare, our student loans, and taxes? Lol, the department of justice got in trouble for buying $16 muffins and $32 treat bags per person at some of their functions recently. The government is involved in so much frivolous spending and they earn plenty of money off of each student, even with paying us 50k a year as residents (btw, if you are in surgery, how much are they paying us per hour?). It's a joke. And all governments pay for the healthcare of their nation. That part of having a civilized nation these days. So to say the American government is dishing out so much $ per medical student is a ridiculous argument on so many levels.

 

[tiedyeddog]

False. And myopic. They are spots. A lot of people, schools, and even tax-payers are investing in each medical student "spot" with the assumption that the student in it will serve the general public's health and welfare.

I agree with you on the whole resources thing. We were told that my state contributes up to~250K per student at my school. While I have no written proof for that number, which I actually kind of doubt myself, lets just say taxpayers do contribute to our educations at many public schools. However, I believe each student earns that spot... as far as I am concerned the school did a crappy job vetting the student. We aren't indebted to work hard because other people didn't get a spot. We didn't get here because of luck. We got here because we worked hard and deserved it. And we work hard because we want to be great physicians.

Also, better that a sub-par medical student drops out before he/she becomes a sub-par physician, which could lead to real world problems for patients and cheapening the care they pay for (or the state pays for...)

 

[phltz]

Typically I wouldn't agree with some of your stances, but I agree on this one.

I hear all the time how we "owe" people something. Guess what, we are paying 200-300k for an education that we have to work our assess off on a daily basis, forego a lot of free time available in other fields, and make other sacrifices. I don't think a medical student owes anyone anything, they have worked for their spot and it was given to them.

With all that said, I do like to contribute to my school because I feel it's a good school and I want to help. But I've never felt like I owed them anything. Also, the whole "Government paying for your education" argument is lame..

I dunno how it is at your school, but I'm constantly amazed at the time, energy, money, attention, and a myriad of other valuable resources are constantly being thrown at us as medical students. People arranged to donate their bodies (or their families did) for us to learn from in anatomy lab. They didn't do this as part of an economic transaction and were not compensated in any way. They did it purely because they want to help train the next generation of doctors. Patients allow us to clumsily examine them. Attendings with no actual teaching duties are constantly inviting us to follow them on rounds, and then take their (very scarce and very valuable) time to explain things to us. People with a variety of diseases volunteer to come and tell us their stories, often including painful, personal, and otherwise secret parts. Other volunteers with chronic diseases literally invite us to their home, sit down with us at their hearth, feed us, and share their lives with us.

I don't feel like I owe the government anything because of all this. The government has little to do with it. I feel like I will owe _society_, because many people and organizations in society have pulled together to voluntarily, without compensation, and at often great cost, get me get the best medical training possible. By and large they have done this purely for the explicitly social role of ensuring that future generations have access to the best medical care possible, delivered by the most well trained doctors.

 

[Jack is Back]

I dunno how it is at your school, but I'm constantly amazed at the time, energy, money, attention, and a myriad of other valuable resources are constantly being thrown at us as medical students. People arranged to donate their bodies (or their families did) for us to learn from in anatomy lab. They didn't do this as part of an economic transaction and were not compensated in any way. They did it purely because they want to help train the next generation of doctors. Patients allow us to clumsily examine them. Attendings with no actual teaching duties are constantly inviting us to follow them on rounds, and then take their (very scarce and very valuable) time to explain things to us. People with a variety of diseases volunteer to come and tell us their stories, often including painful, personal, and otherwise secret parts. Other volunteers with chronic diseases literally invite us to their home, sit down with us at their hearth, feed us, and share their lives with us.

I don't feel like I owe the government anything because of all this. The government has little to do with it. I feel like I will owe _society_, because many people and organizations in society have pulled together to voluntarily, without compensation, and at often great cost, get me get the best medical training possible. By and large they have done this purely for the explicitly social role of ensuring that future generations have access to the best medical care possible, delivered by the most well trained doctors.

I agree with your sentiments about the generosity of the patients. Mind you though, they give to us and most of us will be giving back to them for a lifetime. It is a mutually beneficial relationship. Remember, with 150-200 students paying 30-45k a year --- x4 classes --- 22 million dollars. That's a nice chunk of change for tuition.

People who donate their bodies are very generous and it is appreciated. I don't undervalue anyones contributions to us. My point was, there is no way that you can take on the idea that "medical students OWE the government or even the school" their life. If someone wants to quit or work 50% of the time, that is fine. It is their life.

For those of us that stick around, I agree that we need to be grateful for all the opportunities we get. BUT this is still much much different from feeling an obligation to do XYZ. I think it is better to naturally want to serve others than to be forced by a guilty conscience.

 

[RN-to-MD]

You will need to work medicine level hard in EVERY field to break 100k when you are working as an employee. I speak the truth.

An overstatement, sorry, I just can't resist, I make $85k/yr working three 8 hr shifts a week, if I worked 40hrs/week, I would make well over 100k, as a basic RN, I work hard, but I also pretty much always have time to sit, have a coffee, chart, and I do always get 1 hr for lunch when I work.

If you want an average job that is comfortable, it will likely not exist in the future when a recession hits and your boss decides that "hey, Joe can do what he and Jane did before by himself, he has lots of free time." It would suck to be Jane.

I wish those who hail medicine as the great recession-proof vocation, would really look at healthcare and our economy in a more systemic manner. When the economy goes bad, it goes bad for everyone, people may always need doctors but they are not always going to be able to pay for them, esp if they lose their jobs/insurance.

No job is *immune* to economic downturns, I can say that in the hospital where I work, while no one has yet been laid off, everyone, yes including the sacred cow MDs, have gotten pink slips and, while 5 yrs ago we had 4 docs after hours on call to handle admitting and do cross cover for the inpts, now we have only two; one stays in the ED and admits, the other covers all the pts for entire hospital---800bed capacity--that's stress!

B/c most docs aren't unionized, (another issue) and they dont have limits on pt loads, the hospital makes up the loss in profit margin by stretching further the doctor's they already have on staff. This is how Joe and Jane MD really get impacted by the recession--and, yep, I'm gonna say it prolly sucks pretty hard for them too.

Just one person's real world example of how docs are not above the repercussions of today's economic troubles

 

[bucks2010]

If you want a well paying job, then you have to study. you have to work for it, . Medicine is the most financially secure job out there. It is very unlikely to see an unemployed Doctor. (unless if hes a quack.) out on the streets. If you dont take the medical or law route...you will most likely work a 9-5 job and see yourself unemployed a few years from now for doing something unlawful. thats when you will start having regrets about the time when you left Med school in search for a better lifestyle, better job, better everything, you might even see one of your class mates from med school, you will see that he has become this very successful cardiovascular surgeon( im just spitballin here😉) and he has an amazing family and a very nice home.and then you say to yourself " man!, i wanted to be a cardiovascular surgeon too.. if i never pussied out i could be just as successful if not, more than him".. man you gotta have balls( that sac that dangles from your crotch.or cojones ) to go into medicine. and if you dont have balls, then medicine is not for you, and frankly, you dont have balls. im sorry to say it but you dont have it. If you want nice things in this life, then you gotta work for them. nothing is free, nothing is handed to you just like that.. if you want to live the rest of your life doing nothing then by all means go for it... just my 0.02$

it's funny that you identify as a "medical student" because just last month you were outed as being a high school student:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11450296&postcount=54

for future reference, I would refrain from advising a medical student when you haven't even started undergrad yet.

 

[Jack is Back]

it's funny that you identify as a "medical student" because just last month you were outed as being a high school student:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11450296&postcount=54

for future reference, I would refrain from advising a medical student when you haven't even started undergrad yet.

lol, high schoolers post in allo'

Dude, go out and have fun before med school starts!

 

[Morsetlis]

He could've have been a high schooler taking 9 AP tests like I was.

That's no fun 🙁