Thoughts on Schools w/o AOA?

[Smokey]

Thanks for reading. I had the good fortune to be accepted by a school that is entirely pass/fail, has no class rank, and does not have AOA. This sounds wonderful, but looking at posts talking about how important AOA is, could this be a bad thing? Obviously there is no guarantee I would come close to qualifying for an AOA position, but should this be a concern?

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[MissAmerica]

First , it would help to know what AOA is?

 

[liverotcod]

Is that a US allopathic medial school? I'm surprised, I though they all had chapters. For the record, I don't think all pass-fail is a good idea at all.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

First - AOA is Alpha Omega Alpha, the Medical Honor Society. Typically, only the top 5-10% of third and fourth year medical students are offered a position in the society. This honor is often looked for by residency directors in determining whether or not they want a particular applicant in their program.

Second - Not all U.S. Allopathic Med Schools have a chapter.

Third - As far as your concern about pass/fail goes, check the grading criteria for your third and fourth year clerkships. I have not found a single school that has only pass/fail for this portion of the curriculum. It is during this period that you will have to distinguish yourself.

 

[p9142]

Here is a list of active chapters:
http://www.alphaomegaalpha.org/PDFs/ActiveChapters.pdf

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

Here is a list of active chapters:
http://www.alphaomegaalpha.org/PDFs/ActiveChapters.pdf

Thanks for the link!

I immediately noticed that UCSD and Harvard do not have chapters. If anyone else feels like adding a particular school to the list, please do.

Schools without AOA Chapters:
Harvard
UCSD

 

[Smokey]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The first two years are p/f but there are 4 or 5 tiers in the 3rd and 4th years. I have been told that the clinical years are by far more important, true. But the school does not have AOA or class rank.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The first two years are p/f but there are 4 or 5 tiers in the 3rd and 4th years. I have been told that the clinical years are by far more important, true. But the school does not have AOA or class rank.

sounds like you are talking about Mayo...if you are coming from there I wouldn't worry about such factors.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Third - As far as your concern about pass/fail goes, check the grading criteria for your third and fourth year clerkships. I have not found a single school that has only pass/fail for this portion of the curriculum. It is during this period that you will have to distinguish yourself.

http://services.aamc.org/currdir/section1/grading1.cfm

some schools do in fact have pass/fail all 4 years (e.g. UCLA, see link above)

however, they still will likely have written, subjective evaluations from each rotation that will go into Dean's Letters for residency applications. These comments are the meat of what you're going to have to worry about.

 

[GoSprout24]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about going to a school w/o AOA. Usually the only schools that do NOT have AOA are really amazing institutions where most of the students coming out are amazing -- hence the decision not to "label" their students.

Residency directors know which schools have/do not have AOA, so they will review the applications accordingly.

I would have loved to go to a med school w/o AOA (I'm an M4). In this residency application process, I know of at least one program in my field that has the luxury to rigorously screen applications pre-interview -- and the rumor on the street is that they mainly select people with AOA. I'm a very strong student at my school, but not quite AOA status... and I have this sinking feeling that I didn't have a shot at this program bc I was not AOA. Had I gone to a school that didn't have an active chapter, I feel the program would have taken a closer look at my application bc they wouldn't have automatically been able to put me "in a box".

Now, perhaps this is just my insecurity trying to explain away my rejection at this particular program (I'm completely aware of this - no need for people to ride me, please)... but I think there's some logic to it as well. If programs know they can't put you in a box (and there literally IS an AOA "checkbox" when you fill out your residency application), they are more likely to spend time looking through your application to see if you are a true fit for their program.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Pemulis]

Thanks for reading. I had the good fortune to be accepted by a school that is entirely pass/fail, has no class rank, and does not have AOA. This sounds wonderful, but looking at posts talking about how important AOA is, could this be a bad thing? Obviously there is no guarantee I would come close to qualifying for an AOA position, but should this be a concern?

Check the school's match list. If they have matched a lot of people into competitive residencies the past few years, then you can be pretty certain that a lack of AOA isn't hurting their students.

 

[Wizard of Oz]

First - AOA is Alpha Omega Alpha, the Medical Honor Society. Typically, only the top 5-10% of third and fourth year medical students are offered a position in the society. This honor is often looked for by residency directors in determining whether or not they want a particular applicant in their program.

Second - Not all U.S. Allopathic Med Schools have a chapter.

According to my school's handbook, there are 124 chapters in the United States and Canada.

I can't speak to "typically" since I've only been at one school, but my college elects the full one sixth (17%) which is the maximum. According to wikipedia, you have to be in the top quartile to be eligible for appointment.

The schools that don't have active chapters tend to either be not accredited by the AAMC or they are already prestigious enough that AOA membership would both be difficult to ascertain and unlikely to give the student much more of an advantage in matching.

 

[deleted77919]

I wouldn't be too concerned about AOA when choosing a med school. The liklihood that one will be in the top 10-15% of ones class is small enough that other factors should weigh into the calculus more.

 

[snobored18]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The first two years are p/f but there are 4 or 5 tiers in the 3rd and 4th years. I have been told that the clinical years are by far more important, true. But the school does not have AOA or class rank.[/QUOTE

Pass/Fail and no AOA is fantastic...if you've got the opportunity to avoid it go for it, alternatively if you want to see such a place's match list for yourself PM me and I'll pull it off the intranet...

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

http://services.aamc.org/currdir/section1/grading1.cfm

some schools do in fact have pass/fail all 4 years (e.g. UCLA, see link above)

however, they still will likely have written, subjective evaluations from each rotation that will go into Dean's Letters for residency applications. These comments are the meat of what you're going to have to worry about.

Thanks for the correction! I was not aware of the fact that this existed!

 

[IckeyShuffle]

I wouldn't be too concerned about AOA when choosing a med school. The liklihood that one will be in the top 10-15% of ones class is small enough that other factors should weigh into the calculus more.

agreed. if you are in a class of 150, they will prolly only take around 15 into AOA. this is when everyone going into med school plans on doing really well too so the chances are pretty slim. I wouldnt base my choice of schools on this.

 

[Law2Doc]

I wouldn't be too concerned about AOA when choosing a med school. The liklihood that one will be in the top 10-15% of ones class is small enough that other factors should weigh into the calculus more.

Couldn't agree more. You need to walk before you can fly, and most of the animal kingdom never gets to fly. On average, you will be average. Even most of the bottom of every med school class still got mostly A's in college -- you will be swimming in a very different pond.
You go to the med school that is right for you regardless of things like AOA, try to excell there, and if you do, then you take advantage of whatever extras (be it AOA, Honors projects, research, etc) your school may offer you. If you do well in the later years and on step 1, you will not be precluded from anything based on your schools lack of AOA (or even not getting it even if they had it).