Thoughts on USC?

[Elysian12]

I applied to USC but from what I have been hearing, this school is bad news. I can't get myself to submit the application fee. I would like to hear your guys thoughts on the school. Do they still do problem based learning (PBL)? Can someone explain PBL to me. I know it is like case studies instead of lecture but don't understand how that would work. Aside from the cost what are the cons of the school? Also what are the pros of the school? Any info would be helpful. I live in southern California which is one of the main reasons why I would go here. It is relatively close to home.

Thank you

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[redhotchiligochu]

I applied to USC but from what I have been hearing, this school is bad news. I can't get myself to submit the application fee. I would like to hear your guys thoughts on the school. Do they still do problem based learning (PBL)? Can someone explain PBL to me. I know it is like case studies instead of lecture but don't understand how that would work. Aside from the cost what are the cons of the school? Also what are the pros of the school? Any info would be helpful. I live in southern California which is one of the main reasons why I would go here. It is relatively close to home.

Thank you

You not sending your application to USC is one extra spot available for another applicant 😉

I don't think PBL's are as bad as people think, but then again, some people like to be babied like they were in undergrad, so it's a personal matter. I think it's ridiculous to not apply to a school just because they have PBL and not traditional lectures. From what I've heard, it's case studies, almost like what you would do if you saw a patient. Would you ask your patient to do a lecture on what dental issues they have or will you DIY and figure it out? I think that's USC's message.

In all seriousness, USC does have a very good program, extensive patient pool, and has a 100+ year history. Now, I went to their orientation so it's probable that there's selling a bunch of baloney, but the dental students seemed very nice and the faculty were supportive.

I would ask a current USC dental school student for more info, the above is what I've heard from current students, faculty and dental student friends already in that program.

Then again, I'm just a pre-dent applying this cycle so my opinion may hold little to no weight.

Edit: Disclaimer

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

OP,

just submit your supp app to USC since you already paid the primary app, use the interview as a practice interview and use the acceptance (if USC accepts you) for back up. if you get into any school that is cheaper, even 30-40k, go to the cheaper school.

USC still does Problem Based Learning (PBL). PBL is just like group study. you are given the material and the study guide and you work with your group mates to learn it following the study guide. This style of learning is effective, but arguably only effective for certain types of classes (like patient case study) but not effective in basic science study (that you need to be lectured on the info). Hence, some schools realize this and do half PBL and half non-PBL. But USC is full on PBL except a very few classes that are not PBL.

the patient pool at USC is a problem. I heard you don't have a wide variety of patients to have because they have all specialty programs there. USC also tries to get you to do license through Portfolio thing not traditional WREB. so you can only be license in CA and have to repeat the clinical exam if you want to move Out of state. Whereas WREB, you just need to retake the law part and get the new license in another state.

USC is ridiculously expensive. Other than the tuition and fee they charge, they make you buy all dental equipments, from big to small (equipment set 20k, diamond burs, etc etc). The parking permit is through lottery system and you pay near 400$ per semester there (3 trimester a year).

for watever students that choose USC while having a cheaper option is beyond me. while the rest choose USC because they only get accepted to nearly expensive but far away school (NYU), this is understandable.

All in all, just apply to have some peace of mind knowing you have something to fall back on but don't settle for USC. even the financial aid representative of USC says it himself that you won't pay off the debt this school puts on you until the die except going the IRB/PAYE route.

 

[redhotchiligochu]

OP,

just submit your supp app to USC since you already paid the primary app, use the interview as a practice interview and use the acceptance (if USC accepts you) for back up. if you get into any school that is cheaper, even 30-40k, go to the cheaper school.

USC still does Problem Based Learning (PBL). PBL is just like group study. you are given the material and the study guide and you work with your group mates to learn it following the study guide. This style of learning is effective, but arguably only effective for certain types of classes (like patient case study) but not effective in basic science study (that you need to be lectured on the info). Hence, some schools realize this and do half PBL and half non-PBL. But USC is full on PBL except a very few classes that are not PBL.

the patient pool at USC is a problem. I heard you don't have a wide variety of patients to have because they have all specialty programs there. USC also tries to get you to do license through Portfolio thing not traditional WREB. so you can only be license in CA and have to repeat the clinical exam if you want to move Out of state. Whereas WREB, you just need to retake the law part and get the new license in another state.

USC is ridiculously expensive. Other than the tuition and fee they charge, they make you buy all dental equipments, from big to small (equipment set 20k, diamond burs, etc etc). The parking permit is through lottery system and you pay near 400$ per semester there (3 trimester a year).

for watever students that choose USC while having a cheaper option is beyond me. while the rest choose USC because they only get accepted to nearly expensive but far away school (NYU), this is understandable.

All in all, just apply to have some peace of mind knowing you have something to fall back on but don't settle for USC. even the financial aid representative of USC says it himself that you won't pay off the debt this school puts on you until the die except going the IRB/PAYE route.

I know it's meant for OP, but VERY informative especially the part about only being licensed in CA, thanks!

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

by the way,

the only pro of USC is that you get to observe

1. drooling hot girls

2. at hot beaches.

nowhere can beat that hence you have to pay the price.

 

[Mascota]

All I can say is PBL for basic science in dental school is the about the worst thing I could imagine. Picture this - a group of overly confident dental students who don't know what the hell they're talking about blinding teaching each other inaccurate information. That's PBL in didactic classes.

In response to this comment:

I don't think PBL's are as bad as people think, but then again, some people like to be babied like they were in undergrad, so it's a personal matter.

I say yes, baby me as much as you can so I can learn he material as quickly and efficiently as possible - provide me with all the resources you can to help me learn the material - video lectures, text books, lecture notes, what ever. Let me learn according to my style of learning so I can get through the enormous volume of information that's getting thrown at me every day.

When you look at how much overhead professors salaries create for universities you'll understand why USC is being so gung-ho about integrating PBL into everything; charge the students to teach themselves the information and sell it like you're doing them a favor, thus cutting cost of professors salaries.

PBL can be great for integrating material and improving clinical thinking/problem solving, but only after the material has been learned and mastered. This would work well for case studies, as mentioned above.

That's my two bits - take from it what you'd like. Good luck with your decision!

 

[redhotchiligochu]

All I can say is PBL for basic science in dental school is the about the worst thing I could imagine. Picture this - a group of overly confident dental students who don't know what the hell they're talking about blinding teaching each other inaccurate information. That's PBL in didactic classes.

In response to this comment:


I say yes, baby me as much as you can so I can learn he material as quickly and efficiently as possible - provide me with all the resources you can to help me learn the material - video lectures, text books, lecture notes, what ever. Let me learn according to my style of learning so I can get through the enormous volume of information that's getting thrown at me every day.

When you look at how much overhead professors salaries create for universities you'll understand why USC is being so gung-ho about integrating PBL into everything; charge the students to teach themselves the information and sell it like you're doing them a favor, thus cutting cost of professors salaries.

PBL can be great for integrating material and improving clinical thinking/problem solving, but only after the material has been learned and mastered. This would work well for case studies, as mentioned above.

That's my two bits - take from it what you'd like. Good luck with your decision!

Makes sense, I definitely see your point. I was speaking more along the lines of making lemonades out of lemons, so to speak, since people below 3.7GPA/25AA won't get the luxury of essentially picking the dental school they want.

 

[Krentist_72]

OP,


USC is ridiculously expensive. Other than the tuition and fee they charge, they make you buy all dental equipments, from big to small (equipment set 20k, diamond burs, etc etc). The parking permit is through lottery system and you pay near 400$ per semester there (3 trimester a year).

for watever students that choose USC while having a cheaper option is beyond me. while the rest choose USC because they only get accepted to nearly expensive but far away school (NYU), this is understandable.

This is going to be the main argument you hear on SDN.... It is crazy expensive, there's no sugar coating that. It's the most expensive school and only getting more expensive. God knows why, considering it's PBL and they have the endowment that could probably feed 3rd-world countries. It's stupid expensive.

However, I kind of have a problem with the idea that no one would go while having a cheaper option, unless you're not from California. Yeah, if you're not CA/west coast and you get into a cheaper school, then that's an easy choice. Run to your closer, cheaper school.
But the way I see SC is this: if you want to brave the saturation of CA post d-school and are from CA, then USC's not the worst option. The "Trojan Family" is STRONG all across the state, and SC alumni have each others backs like very few other schools. The name pulls weight, and even more importantly, has lots of connections. To me, I think the debt is crazy, but having those connections, being close to aging family members, and not having to pay for cross-country flights for every holiday is something priceless to consider too.

I know there's going to be (understandable) disagreement on this, because the cost is ridiculous. But I feel like someone has to play devil's advocate against the other 49 states on SDN who can get a little tunnel-visiony against USC lol
OP, apply since you've already paid the primary fee. If you have the luxury to choose between lots of schools come whenever, then you can weigh the pros and cons of costs, PBL, location, and otherwise.

 

[hellofuturedentists]

If you ultimately want to "brave the saturation" in California, you'll probably be getting paid less than those who work elsewhere. I'd say it's better to have less debt to begin with if you want to go that route. You can always try to find a GPR/specialty in California after your 4 years of school.

OP, there are lots of cons to this school, and it's good you're trying to weigh them against the pros before continuing your application. If being close to family is a pro that beats all the other cons you've seen, then keep applying. Otherwise, save your money.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

sorry, signing away my life on a 300k debt is understandable because there is no lower choice I have, while also being near to CA (no cross country expensive flight, a drive able drive). But, signing away my life on a 500k debt, having a TROJAN FOR LIFE attitude, and banking on the network to save me, is not how I want to live my life. I will still sign away a 400k debt if it is my absolute choice to become a dentist.


there is no reason to pick the most expensive school knowing it has nothing to prove for it other than the Trojan family. Since dentists are in demand in non saturated area, you don't really need the network. what you need? a good and competent clinical hand skills.

like for pharmacy, even the trojan family cant pull them weight to land good jobs (hospital job) in this crazy pharmacy market in CA. They still end up working for big chains like regular graduates from other regular pharmacy schools (but have to repay 3x the amount of debt)
Only the proud SC advocates sing this tune.


of course, if USC has clinical experience like placing and restoring implants, complicated endo, and other stuff just too much for students to handle (not the other way around that the students complain only handling easy cases while specialty students hoard all the hard cases), then the price is justifiable.

 

[Krentist_72]

If you ultimately want to "brave the saturation" in California, you'll probably be getting paid less than those who work elsewhere. I'd say it's better to have less debt to begin with if you want to go that route. You can always try to find a GPR/specialty in California after your 4 years of school.

sorry, signing away my life on a 300k debt is understandable because there is no lower choice I have, while also being near to CA (no cross country expensive flight, a drive able drive). But, signing away my life on a 500k debt, having a TROJAN FOR LIFE attitude, and banking on the network to save me, is not how I want to live my life. I will still sign away a 400k debt if it is my absolute choice to become a dentist.


there is no reason to pick the most expensive school knowing it has nothing to prove for it other than the Trojan family. Since dentists are in demand in non saturated area, you don't really need the network. what you need? a good and competent clinical hand skills.

like for pharmacy, even the trojan family cant pull them weight to land good jobs (hospital job) in this crazy pharmacy market in CA. They still end up working for big chains like regular graduates from other regular pharmacy schools (but have to repay 3x the amount of debt)
Only the proud SC advocates sing this tune.


of course, if USC has clinical experience like placing and restoring implants, complicated endo, and other stuff just too much for students to handle (not the other way around that the students complain only handling easy cases while specialty students hoard all the hard cases), then the price is justifiable.

Yeah of course, all undeniably great points. All really important to keep in mind, OP.

And for the record, not an SC grad, not a TROJAN FOR LIFE (although very accurate portrayal lolll) just pointing out that there can be small, different benefits for certain people other than just "go to the cheapest" that is often driven home-- as the cheapest may not benefit the persons location, future plans, happiness, family, whatever. Whether those small benefits outweigh the stupidly massive debt... Depends on the person. But definitely needs lots of introspection and research before a final decision.

 

[hellofuturedentists]

Yeah of course, all undeniably great points. All really important to keep in mind, OP.

And for the record, not an SC grad, not a TROJAN FOR LIFE (although very accurate portrayal lolll) just pointing out that there can be small, different benefits for certain people other than just "go to the cheapest" that is often driven home-- as the cheapest may not benefit the persons location, future plans, happiness, family, whatever. Whether those small benefits outweigh the stupidly massive debt... Depends on the person. But definitely needs lots of introspection and research before a final decision.

Oh I know. But there's a difference between not going to the cheapest school and attending the most expensive school in the country lol. I turned down multiple schools because I couldn't justify the price. It sucks, but it really does all come down to pros outweighing cons for wherever you ultimately attend. If someone's pros for USC outweigh the cons, then logically, they should attend.

 

[Krentist_72]

Oh I know. But there's a difference between not going to the cheapest school and attending the most expensive school in the country lol. I turned down multiple schools because I couldn't justify the price. It sucks, but it really does all come down to pros outweighing cons for wherever you ultimately attend. If someone's pros for USC outweigh the cons, then logically, they should attend.

Oh for sure... And don't get me wrong, I'd turn it down for just about any other California school, as well as OHSU/UW/west coast schools (if they just took OOS, pleeeease) because they're all cheaper and in regions I would like to stay in. I think it gets more into the fuzzy areas in comparison to still very expensive schools in a place that doesn't exactly excite you. But that's when you break out the good ole logical pros and cons list of those smaller things that may determine your happiness/sanity for the next four+ years. Same for East Coast: why leave a great region of schools to attend the most expensive school in the nation (unless you so desperately want to live in LA for four years but its not that great tbh?)-- and that's where I think the assumption arose that people go there only if it's a last resort.

There's a knee-jerk reaction of "oh god no don't go there anywhere but there" because of the numbers, which is totally and completely fair for almost everyone
So I had to play devil's advocate bc a) ~*dare to be different*~ and b) I should've been packing all day and I'm still procrastinating whoops