Three low MCAT scores..retake or focus on SMP?

[rw4599]

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In short, I am attending a SMP this fall with strong linkage to a DO school. Based on what I've been told about the program, as long as I perform well in the SMP courses and have a successful interview, chance of acceptance to the associated DO school is quite high. I am also hoping to apply to a few other DO schools that are closer to my home state (NC), though I am very doubtful about being accepted anywhere else considering my MCAT scores. I have struggled big time with testing anxiety in the past, especially with the MCAT. I feel like I'm finally overcoming this issue, but perhaps too late in the game.

My MCAT scores are 21, 22, and 24, with a cGPA of ~3.3 and sGPA of ~3.2. Significant upward trend in the past few years taking full loads of only upper level science courses. I think my EC's are a definite strength.

So my question is basically, is there any point in retaking the new MCAT to hopefully improve my chances at other schools, or should I just focus solely on performing well in my SMP courses to attend that DO school?

I really appreciate any advice.

 

[DrKershaw]

Assuming the rest of your application is up to par, if you can get straight A's in the SMP (or at least very close to it), I'd make a Vegas-sized bet that you'll get interviews at more than just the school you're doing the SMP at. If you wind up with ~3.5 GPA from the SMP, you may or may not need to think about retaking the MCAT, depending on the rest of your application. But if you're closer to 3.0 in the SMP, I would definitely start to consider retaking.

Wait till you finish the SMP to even think about retaking the MCAT. You need to focus all your attention to the SMP because it's your chance to right all the wrongs from undergrad. I hate to be so grim, but if you don't do well in the SMP you're chances at getting into a US medical school are basically screwed.

 

[jw3600]

The OP has a ~45th percentile MCAT on his third try and a low UGPA. His SMP performance is most likely going to be irrelevant and his chances of attending medical school are quite low. I would absolutely consider not dropping 50k on an endeavor that may end up fruitless. You actually were not quite grim enough. Sorry OP, good luck.

 

[Goro]

I'm not a fan of magic thinking. I don't see how you're magically going to improve your MCAT score after three poor tries. Beggars can't be choosy, and so the fastest and easiest path is to stick with the SMP.

 

[You're My Boy Blue]

Many SMPs will admit people solely based on a student's performance in the program. If the School knows that the student can excel in their classes then why not admit them? If OP does well in the class/interview then he should get into the DO school regardless of the low MCAT.

His SMP performance is most likely going to be irrelevant

Strongly disagree with this^

 

[mathnerd88]

Many SMPs will admit people solely based on a student's performance in the program. If the School knows that the student can excel in their classes then why not admit them? If OP does well in the class/interview then he should get into the DO school regardless of the low MCAT.

Strongly disagree with this^

If the OP is amenable in spending another $40-50k in tuition, by all means that's the best option. Cost is always a huge factor when it comes to medicine.

SMP plus DO school tuition would be more than $300k. Ouch.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Do well in the SMP....take your acceptance at that school. If you don't do well in the SMP, its time for Plan B. That simple.




Doing exceptionally well at this SMP isn't going to make up for three MCAT scores that are WELL below DO average(nonetheless MD average) for MD admission purposes. There is no point in applying to at most a couple near by DO schools with in-state bias.

 

[jw3600]

Many SMPs will admit people solely based on a student's performance in the program. If the School knows that the student can excel in their classes then why not admit them? If OP does well in the class/interview then he should get into the DO school regardless of the low MCAT.



Strongly disagree with this^

The same reason that medical school admissions is extremely competitive in the first place. No one is saying someone that dominates an SMP is not qualified. There are simply others who are more qualified. I have personally seen friends do SMPs, get a >3.8 and not get into the medical school. I have also heard it from friends at my current medical school who did the local SMP (about their friends). It's a tough pill to swallow but OP is not going to be rejected because the adcoms feel "he will not excel in their classes." He will most likely be rejected because there were dozens of kids in that SMP (and others) that did well AND had MCAT scores higher than national median.

SMPs are a pipe dream. They really only apply for your guy/girl with a 2.6 GPA/30+ MCAT who needs to prove to the school he can put the sustained effort in for challenging classes, not just 6 weeks for the MCAT. However these things are absolute cash cows. They literally cost nothing. All the classes just piggy back off other departments lecture and there is no need for clinical faculty. Some MBA hit the bullseye with this one.

Edit: added a clause.

 

[GrapesofRath]

The same reason that medical school admissions is extremely competitive in the first place. No one is saying someone that dominates an SMP is not qualified. There are simply others who are more qualified. I have personally seen friends do SMPs, get a >3.8 and not get into the medical school. I have also heard it from friends at my current medical school who did the local SMP (about their friends). It's a tough pill to swallow but OP is not going to be rejected because the adcoms feel "he will not excel in their classes." He will most likely be rejected because there were dozens of kids in that SMP (and others) that did well AND had MCAT scores higher than national median.

SMPs are a pipe dream. They really only apply for your guy/girl with a 2.6 GPA/30+ MCAT who needs to prove to the school he can put the sustained effort in for challenging classes, not just 6 weeks for the MCAT. However these things are absolute cash cows. They literally cost nothing. All the classes just piggy back off other departments lecture and there is no need for clinical faculty. Some MBA hit the bullseye with this one.

Edit: added a clause.

SMP for specific DO schools are different than these SMPs you speak of. Alot of these SMPs you are talking about won't even admit people with poor GPAs unless they have strong MCATs along the lines of 30+. This is a different situation. These are specific DO programs running SMPs where often times the sole purposes of them is for students to show they can handle the rigor and are specifically auditioning for that school. Goro can chime in more on this but in this case if one is able to get into one of these programs, doing well in that SMP will at least make them very competitive to enroll in that school the following year.

 

[jw3600]

SMP for specific DO schools are different than these SMPs you speak of. Alot of these SMPs you are talking about won't even admit people with poor GPAs unless they have strong MCATs along the lines of 30+. This is a different situation. These are specific DO programs running SMPs where often times the sole purposes of them is for students to show they can handle the rigor and are specifically auditioning for that school. Goro can chime in more on this but in this case if one is able to get into one of these programs, doing well in that SMP will at least make them very competitive to enroll in that school the following year.

I admit I do not know the numbers and maybe it wasn't clear in my post but I am literally talking about the exact DO SMPs you are speaking of.

 

[DrKershaw]

Yea, I'm with you jw3600...for the most part. SMPs are traditionally only useful for the high MCAT, low GPA bunch. However, there are some DO specific SMPs that will guarantee an interview if you can get above a minimum GPA in the program and then there are the best ones where you are actually taking the same courses as OMS-1 students, that way they can directly compare you to the rest of the curve. If OP is in either of these, he definitely still has a chance. If he's in one of those programs created purely to make a nice profit off of aspiring doctors, then yea, he needs the MCAT to increase above everything else.

I know a guy who didn't do an SMP, had ~3.4 GPA and scored a 21, 24, 24 on his MCAT, non-URM...applied 3 times and got in to a low-tier MD state school. With a good application and a great performance in the SMP, I don't see why OP won't have as good of a chance as many other applicants.

 

[feeling-dizzy]

http://tun.touro.edu/prospective-students/applying-for-admission/mhs-admission/
This is Master Science program, not sure you guys consider SMP,
but they will guarantee acceptance if :

• The MHS program guarantees acceptance into the following year’s TUN DO program provided the student meets the following criteria no later than January 2nd:
  1. Attain or exceed the following year’s TUN DO program’s mininum published requirements,
  2. Maintain a mininum of B for each MHS-specific course,
  3. Rank in the upper 50% of DO students for courses shared with the DO program, and
  4. Demonstrate professional behavior at the expected level.

 

[swollcat]

http://tun.touro.edu/prospective-students/applying-for-admission/mhs-admission/
This is Master Science program, not sure you guys consider SMP,
but they will guarantee acceptance if :

• The MHS program guarantees acceptance into the following year’s TUN DO program provided the student meets the following criteria no later than January 2nd:
  1. Attain or exceed the following year’s TUN DO program’s mininum published requirements,
  2. Maintain a mininum of B for each MHS-specific course,
  3. Rank in the upper 50% of DO students for courses shared with the DO program, and
  4. Demonstrate professional behavior at the expected level.

Part of the requirement for #1 includes an mcat of 25 or 500+. Great option for anyone else, but OP wouldn't make the cut so in this case not even an SMP would save them.

OP you've topped out your MCAT score. Even retaking and getting a 27 or so would still have ADCOM's looking at you as a sub 24-25 MCAT student. All you can do now is get your science GPA up as high as possible to offset your triple MCAT. I suggest doing a year of pure science grade replacements (at least 32 units) to get your GPA to a 3.7.

I think shooting for a 3.7 GPA and 24 MCAT puts you in solid range with far less risk.

3.7 GPA + 24 MCAT + DIY PB 5-10K in debt (path of least resistance).

vs.

3.2 GPA + 24 MCAT + 3.8+ SMP GPA + 30-40k in debt

 

[ZedsDed]

Bottom line OP: This should be your last shot. This SMP will only help you get into the host DO school. Other SMPs (without linkage) will not remediate a low MCAT and would not be very helpful. A 4th MCAT retake would be foolish at this point.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

SMP is your chance to prove that you had handle the rigorous workload of med school.

I shadowed a DO, a family physician, and she did a SMP. Not sure about her performance, but she got accepted into the host school with a MCAT of 24. However, she was a URM and taken the MCAT years ago.

I have struggled big time with testing anxiety in the past, especially with the MCAT. I feel like I'm finally overcoming this issue, but perhaps too late in the game.

It's never too late. Keep pushing yourself. This is only the beginning.

 

[j4pac]

I would have recommended grade replacement along with applying broadly and early...but since you are already in a SMP...you have no other choice but to stick it out and do well.

If you worked hard in prep for your previous three MCATs...you risk doing worse on your retake. I think that there is an outside chance you can get in with a 24...so stay pat.

 

[rw4599]

Thanks a lot for the replies. It sounds like I should just focus on my GPA in the SMP for now, so that's what I'm going to do. As far as whether or not my MCAT score is high enough for acceptance, I do know this particular schools claims to focus on program GPA and interview as long as you meet a 23+ MCAT requirement. Statistics for their previous classes show this to be true. I also applied and was accepted to the SMP at LMU, which has a similarly strong linkage with their medical school and the MCAT minimum is only 22 for acceptance, as long as you get B's or higher in the program. There may be others, but this is why I still feel that there's hope despite my less-than-desirable MCAT history. I'm going to give it my best effort and see how it goes. Thanks for the encouragement and input.

 

[mathnerd88]

Thanks a lot for the replies. It sounds like I should just focus on my GPA in the SMP for now, so that's what I'm going to do. As far as whether or not my MCAT score is high enough for acceptance, I do know this particular schools claims to focus on program GPA and interview as long as you meet a 23+ MCAT requirement. Statistics for their previous classes show this to be true. I also applied and was accepted to the SMP at LMU, which has a similarly strong linkage with their medical school and the MCAT minimum is only 22 for acceptance, as long as you get B's or higher in the program. There may be others, but this is why I still feel that there's hope despite my less-than-desirable MCAT history. I'm going to give it my best effort and see how it goes. Thanks for the encouragement and input.

Let's put it this way. Some of these DO schools accept you. If you're not scoring well on the MCAT, how do you expect to score well on USMLE/COMLEX? If anything, these exams become even more difficult than before.

I'm not being discouraging or whatever, but that's my honest opinion. Are you willing to take that chance OP and sink hundreds of thousands of dollars and then at the end, potentially not being able to pass those exams?

 

[Gandyy]

Let's put it this way. Some of these DO schools accept you. If you're not scoring well on the MCAT, how do you expect to score well on USMLE/COMLEX? If anything, these exams become even more difficult than before.

I'm not being discouraging or whatever, but that's my honest opinion. Are you willing to take that chance OP and sink hundreds of thousands of dollars and then at the end, potentially not being able to pass those exams?

While I do agree with you telling the OP to stride with caution, I have heard from a plethora of medical students that the MCAT was harder for them at the time they were in their lives than the USMLE was when they were medical students. Various other medical students have told me the USMLE is more "study" able than the MCAT is.

Still a 24 MCAT score after 3 attempts indicates a test taking ability deficiency and that does need to be straightened out before taking on the USMLE or COMLEX.

 

[mk04447]

Bottom line OP: This should be your last shot. This SMP will only help you get into the host DO school. Other SMPs (without linkage) will not remediate a low MCAT and would not be very helpful. A 4th MCAT retake would be foolish at this point.

I have to agree the SMP is your hail mary pass. The rest is awful strong though. Obviously the OP will do his best and apply to the host school, but he should continue to apply broadly. Many schools know these programs are good predictors of med school performance and this might be enough for an interview at, say Liberty. Besides, once you've plunked down $50k in tuition plus another $20k in living expenses, why wouldn't you drop one more for applications; not applying seems foolish.

 

[mk04447]

Oh and one more piece of advice. Don't forget to network. Remember an SMP is a long interview process. Even if you have a 4.0, get to know the professors, ask good questions, take advantage of mock interviews, and get a committee letter if they offer them. And... touch base with your advisor regularly. This may be more important than a perfect GPA.

 

[ZedsDed]

Oh and one more piece of advice. Don't forget to network. Remember an SMP is a long interview process. Even if you have a 4.0, get to know the professors, ask good questions, take advantage of mock interviews, and get a committee letter if they offer them. And... touch base with your advisor regularly. This may be more important than a perfect GPA.

DO SMPs are a funny thing, sometimes they do allow for what one could call "networking." Nobody said the OP can't apply elsewhere, just that the MCAT scores are severely going to limit his/her options, and an SMP won't do anything to remediate that.

 

[ZezKaiEll]

SMPs are a pipe dream. They really only apply for your guy/girl with a 2.6 GPA/30+ MCAT who needs to prove to the school he can put the sustained effort in for challenging classes, not just 6 weeks for the MCAT. However these things are absolute cash cows. They literally cost nothing. All the classes just piggy back off other departments lecture and there is no need for clinical faculty. Some MBA hit the bullseye with this one.

The unbolded part is true for many SMP-type-programs I have heard about. It is also completely inaccurate for others. The bolded part may well be true for all SMPs.

 

[mk04447]

The unbolded part is true for many SMP-type-programs I have heard about. It is also completely inaccurate for others. The bolded part may well be true for all SMPs.

Gotta disagree with the first part. A stellar showing can overshadow a mediocre MCAT.

 

[ZezKaiEll]

Gotta disagree with the first part. A stellar showing can overshadow a mediocre MCAT.

Then you agree with the second sentence?

 

[mk04447]

Then you agree with the second sentence?

Yeah, just saying you don't need a 30+. Granted an SMP won't do **** for <24ish, but doing well can prove your aptitude for medical school above that.