Tie option for interview

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CyrilFiggis said:
No bow tie love here?
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I had one med school classmate who was all bow-tie all the time. He was actually in my interview group as well and if you knew him you'd completely think that the bow-tie was a good idea for him, and not in a bad/nerdy way. Awesome person with a very different background in classical and jazz music. I think only a few people can pull of a bow-tie in this sort of professional setting and not have it come off in some sort of negative way.
 
Mansamusa said:
I think nothing. Your interviewer will think nothing. I cannot remember a single knot another interviewee had at any of my interviews.

Good luck with the interview!
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I completely disagree. I wore a "trinity knot" to all but one interview, and received positive comments every time I wore it from other interviewees and interviewers.

Was this the reason I was accepted? No, but it is a subtle way to be unique.

This is what it looks like.
4bfe90d3113314be927afa81ffb3f477.jpg
images.jpg
 
nlax30 said:
I had one med school classmate who was all bow-tie all the time. He was actually in my interview group as well and if you knew him you'd completely think that the bow-tie was a good idea for him, and not in a bad/nerdy way. Awesome person with a very different background in classical and jazz music. I think only a few people can pull of a bow-tie in this sort of professional setting and not have it come off in some sort of negative way.
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I wore a bow tie for all but one of my interviews. A smart, tailored navy suit, with a pressed shirt, bow tie and matching pocket square in my opinion didn't project any nerdiness. If I had worn a tweed blazer with elbow patches and a set of suspenders, sure.

I think it's really about confidence. Some guys are afraid to dress boldly. I was stunned how many times I walked into a interview room in the morning and it looked like I was at a wake. Dark suit, white shirt, solid tie. Even when I didn't wear a bow tie, I wore a grey suit, with a purple gingham shirt. Dressing professionally doesn't mean boring. Maybe that's just my impression from spending the better part of a decade in the corporate world, wearing outfits like that to meetings and interviews.
 
Full Windsor as it's symmetrical and looks more neat in my opinion.
 
LizzyM said:
LOL! That skater did graduate from medical school....
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Exactly. And I remembered that specific skating outfit. It was not completely silver as @gyngyn described...BUT...you gotta wonder. 🙄
 
DokterMom said:
And yet --

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ic-medalist-debi-thomas-is-broke-and-begging/
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There was something on facebook a couple weeks ago related to cancer. A lot the comments were about chemo and how doctors murder their patients with unnatural treatments, etc.

Debi Thomas started posting about how there is no evidence to support chemo, how disgusting and greedy healthcare providers are, how there are real treatments for cancers that big pharma is hiding because they can't make money, and how medical schools don't teach about nutrition and how nutrition will solve everything. She cited the fact that she is a Northwestern MD grad to give her claims weight. That's how I first heard of her.

https://go.thetruthaboutcancer.com/?ref=809b8cfe-da3c-4865-bdfb-84c5f50c7a6e One of the links she posted
 
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Mansamusa said:
There was something on facebook a couple weeks ago related to cancer. A lot the comments were about chemo and how doctors murder their patients with unnatural treatments, etc.

Debi Thomas started posting about how there is no evidence to support chemo, how disgusting and greedy healthcare providers are, how there are real treatments for cancers that big pharma is hiding because they can't make money, and how medical schools don't teach about nutrition and how nutrition will solve everything. She cited the fact that she is a Northwestern MD grad to give her claims weight. That's how I first heard of her.

https://go.thetruthaboutcancer.com/?ref=809b8cfe-da3c-4865-bdfb-84c5f50c7a6e One of the links she posted
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That she's had problems makes me sad but seeing this makes me very angry!
 
CyrilFiggis said:
No bow tie love here?
Click to expand...

the fields it seems to go over in best are peds and neuro

this is based on my friend's interviews

peds for obvious reasons
neuro, they are poindexter/urkel types as a stereotype so you'd fit in

medicine they're poindexter types but they don't embrace it like neuro does, they resent the stereotype although it's true, so I don't recommend

keep in mind regional and individual program differences play into this advice
 
Crayola227 said:
the fields it seems to go over in best are peds and neuro

this is based on my friend's interviews
...
Click to expand...
A lot of the GI guys supposedly wear them because they don't want their ties dangling into certain places as they do their exams.

But I think it's less a specialty thing and more of a "can you pull it off" or are you embracing the poindexter thing.
 
For anyone looking for a serious answer, here it is. The tie you use should depend on the collar you are wearing. A medium point collar, do a half-Windsor. Small point or button-down collar? Four-in-hand. Wide spread collar? Better work on your Windsor, because the tiny knit of a four-in-hand looks goofy. Stick with smaller collars and master a competent four-in-hand and you can get by 99% of the time.
 
sb247 said:
I'm just floored here.......so at any point does someone sit them down and give them the "what the hell" talk? or do you just wash your hands of them and laugh over drinks later?
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My bet is that they'd already been given an about elsewhere and were just having some fun while visiting another school. If not for the cost, I would have done the same thing. There's a certain percentage of the population that enjoys doing things very out of the ordinary specifically because they know it'll either make or throw a weird wrench in your day, but you'll never forget it.
 
Crayola227 said:
neuro, they are poindexter/urkel types as a stereotype so you'd fit in
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Just have to say, I take umbrage with the term poindexter. I know you all have the image of this, but the actual definition implies social ineptitude. If you want to mean nerdy and a bookworm, say that.
 
Law2Doc said:
No way she couldn't earn a quick ten grand doing ortho cases. There's got to be more to this story. Leave it to the Washington post to not have any follow up questions.
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From what I read, she was kicked out of her practice because she wasn't able to work well with others.

She was later diagnosed with bipolar disorder and she starting dating a narcotic and alcohol-addicted man. She started prescribing him drugs to apparently help him end his addiction. Then she let all her medical licenses expire. She is now trying to get the bipolar disorder diagnosis thrown out. So there definitely more to the story, and it is sad

Highlights from https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...99-11e5-abc9-ea152f0b9561_story.html#comments :

"She hasn’t seen her family in years. She instead inveighs against shadowy authorities in the nomenclature of conspiracy theorists — “the powers that be”; “corporate media”; “brainwashing” — and composes opinion pieces for the local newspaper that carry headlines such as “Pain, No Gain” and “Driven to Insanity.” She thinks that hoarding gold will insulate us from a looming financial meltdown, and recruits people to sell bits of gold bullion called “Karatbars.”'

"Such comments upset Thomas. “People are all like, ‘Get a job,’ ” she said. “And I’m like, ‘You people are fools.’ I’m trying to change the world.”'

"There was concern that she wouldn’t pass the boards. “And she did it,” he said, “against the critics and against many odds.” But that victory also betrayed what would become her signature weakness. Long never saw her appear to be insecure and came to recognize her confidence as a “two-edged sword.” It drove her to take greater risks than others would. It made her difficult to coach. Some disliked her because of it. “She wanted and expected to be treated like a star,” said Lawrence Dorr, who offered her a prestigious orthopedic fellowship at the Dorr Arthritis Institute in Los Angeles, but quickly realized he couldn’t work with her. “But in orthopedics, she knew she wasn’t a star,” Dorr said. He added: “She would argue back. It was almost like she was contrarian, like she was trying to argue with everything I do.” Difficulties with other medical professionals would come to define Thomas’s career as she left one institution after another after short periods of time. "

"As Thomas’s troubles mounted, Long said he received lengthy, 10-page e-mails from his former student. They were “rambling,” he said, laced with suspicion that the medical system was conspiring against her. Whatever was troubling Thomas, he said, was “progressive” and worse every time he heard from her............And a year later, Thomas’s staff membership and clinical privileges were revoked. Medical board records say there were “concerns of an ongoing pattern of disciplinary and behavior issues and poor judgement.”..........Last July, the Virginia Board of Medicine ordered a hearing to investigate whether she might have broken any medical laws when she prescribed narcotics to Looney and declined help for a diagnosed mental illness."
 
Mansamusa said:
From what I read, she was kicked out of her practice because she wasn't able to work well with others.

She was later diagnosed with bipolar disorder and she starting dating a narcotic and alcohol-addicted man. She started prescribing him drugs to apparently help him end his addiction. Then she let all her medical licenses expire. She is now trying to get the bipolar disorder diagnosis thrown out. So there definitely more to the story, and it is sad

Highlights from https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...99-11e5-abc9-ea152f0b9561_story.html#comments :

"She hasn’t seen her family in years. She instead inveighs against shadowy authorities in the nomenclature of conspiracy theorists — “the powers that be”; “corporate media”; “brainwashing” — and composes opinion pieces for the local newspaper that carry headlines such as “Pain, No Gain” and “Driven to Insanity.” She thinks that hoarding gold will insulate us from a looming financial meltdown, and recruits people to sell bits of gold bullion called “Karatbars.”'

"Such comments upset Thomas. “People are all like, ‘Get a job,’ ” she said. “And I’m like, ‘You people are fools.’ I’m trying to change the world.”'

"There was concern that she wouldn’t pass the boards. “And she did it,” he said, “against the critics and against many odds.” But that victory also betrayed what would become her signature weakness. Long never saw her appear to be insecure and came to recognize her confidence as a “two-edged sword.” It drove her to take greater risks than others would. It made her difficult to coach. Some disliked her because of it. “She wanted and expected to be treated like a star,” said Lawrence Dorr, who offered her a prestigious orthopedic fellowship at the Dorr Arthritis Institute in Los Angeles, but quickly realized he couldn’t work with her. “But in orthopedics, she knew she wasn’t a star,” Dorr said. He added: “She would argue back. It was almost like she was contrarian, like she was trying to argue with everything I do.” Difficulties with other medical professionals would come to define Thomas’s career as she left one institution after another after short periods of time. "

"As Thomas’s troubles mounted, Long said he received lengthy, 10-page e-mails from his former student. They were “rambling,” he said, laced with suspicion that the medical system was conspiring against her. Whatever was troubling Thomas, he said, was “progressive” and worse every time he heard from her............And a year later, Thomas’s staff membership and clinical privileges were revoked. Medical board records say there were “concerns of an ongoing pattern of disciplinary and behavior issues and poor judgement.”..........Last July, the Virginia Board of Medicine ordered a hearing to investigate whether she might have broken any medical laws when she prescribed narcotics to Looney and declined help for a diagnosed mental illness."
Click to expand...
And this is why you need to think long and hard before giving someone $ on a crowd funding site. A few extra dollars won't ever get her back on her feet as long as these other issues persist. In fact it will just postpone necessary life changes.
 
Mad Jack said:
My bet is that they'd already been given an about elsewhere and were just having some fun while visiting another school. If not for the cost, I would have done the same thing. There's a certain percentage of the population that enjoys doing things very out of the ordinary specifically because they know it'll either make or throw a weird wrench in your day, but you'll never forget it.
Click to expand...
I doubt it. Both of those interviews were early in the cycle. On paper, they were highly desirable candidates, though.
 
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Mansamusa said:
From what I read, she was kicked out of her practice because she wasn't able to work well with others.

She was later diagnosed with bipolar disorder and she starting dating a narcotic and alcohol-addicted man. She started prescribing him drugs to apparently help him end his addiction. Then she let all her medical licenses expire. She is now trying to get the bipolar disorder diagnosis thrown out. So there definitely more to the story, and it is sad

Highlights from https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...99-11e5-abc9-ea152f0b9561_story.html#comments :

"She hasn’t seen her family in years. She instead inveighs against shadowy authorities in the nomenclature of conspiracy theorists — “the powers that be”; “corporate media”; “brainwashing” — and composes opinion pieces for the local newspaper that carry headlines such as “Pain, No Gain” and “Driven to Insanity.” She thinks that hoarding gold will insulate us from a looming financial meltdown, and recruits people to sell bits of gold bullion called “Karatbars.”'

"Such comments upset Thomas. “People are all like, ‘Get a job,’ ” she said. “And I’m like, ‘You people are fools.’ I’m trying to change the world.”'

"There was concern that she wouldn’t pass the boards. “And she did it,” he said, “against the critics and against many odds.” But that victory also betrayed what would become her signature weakness. Long never saw her appear to be insecure and came to recognize her confidence as a “two-edged sword.” It drove her to take greater risks than others would. It made her difficult to coach. Some disliked her because of it. “She wanted and expected to be treated like a star,” said Lawrence Dorr, who offered her a prestigious orthopedic fellowship at the Dorr Arthritis Institute in Los Angeles, but quickly realized he couldn’t work with her. “But in orthopedics, she knew she wasn’t a star,” Dorr said. He added: “She would argue back. It was almost like she was contrarian, like she was trying to argue with everything I do.” Difficulties with other medical professionals would come to define Thomas’s career as she left one institution after another after short periods of time. "

"As Thomas’s troubles mounted, Long said he received lengthy, 10-page e-mails from his former student. They were “rambling,” he said, laced with suspicion that the medical system was conspiring against her. Whatever was troubling Thomas, he said, was “progressive” and worse every time he heard from her............And a year later, Thomas’s staff membership and clinical privileges were revoked. Medical board records say there were “concerns of an ongoing pattern of disciplinary and behavior issues and poor judgement.”..........Last July, the Virginia Board of Medicine ordered a hearing to investigate whether she might have broken any medical laws when she prescribed narcotics to Looney and declined help for a diagnosed mental illness."
Click to expand...

how tragic. BPAD can be such a tragic illness. Such a talent. Olympic medalist? Orthopedic surgeon? This was an intelligent, driven, hardworking person - clearly more proof that we can find among BPAD sufferers the best of the best. So sad, so much can be lost even with one mood episode. I hope eventually she's able to get effective treatment.
 
Also illustrates why we as Adcom members take a history of mental illness in applicants so seriously.


Crayola227 said:
how tragic. BPAD can be such a tragic illness. Such a talent. Olympic medalist? Orthopedic surgeon? This was an intelligent, driven, hardworking person - clearly more proof that we can find among BPAD sufferers the best of the best. So sad, so much can be lost even with one mood episode. I hope eventually she's able to get effective treatment.
Click to expand...
 
Mad Jack said:
For anyone looking for a serious answer, here it is. The tie you use should depend on the collar you are wearing. A medium point collar, do a half-Windsor. Small point or button-down collar? Four-in-hand.]
Click to expand...

A button down collar with a suit?! GTFO!
 
I'm sure your tie knot doesn't matter for a med school interview. That said, I do have strong opinions about tie knots in general.

Full Windsor knots almost always look too big, I would avoid it. They are not actually hard to tie, so you should not be proud of yourself. It looks kind of silly. Usually a full Windsor will be about as big as your fist, which is too big. I fail to understand why it is considered so acceptable. Some people use them to eat up length because they are short, but in that case you should have the tie altered by a tailor (preferably), or stick the narrow end inside your shirt (probably not good enough for a med school interview, but preferable to a massive ungainly full Windsor knot in my opinion).

Four-in-hand knots are asymmetrical and they can go die in a fire. They are very popular and totally acceptable in terms of the general population, but I don't like the four-in-hand. Exception: When the tie fabric is unusually thick and any other knot will look too big. Exception 2: If you cannot tie any other knot, or you cannot do it well. I don't honestly care very much, a tie with a four-in-hand is better than something else done poorly.

The half Windsor knot is fantastic, conservative, and just the right size. It is hard for some people to remember, but I think it is actually quite easy to tie in almost everyone's opinion, so long as you have Google to help out. It is 100% appropriate for a med school interview. Very good size, symmetrical, shows slightly more thought than a four-in-hand. Many, many people can tell the difference between a four-in-hand and a half Windsor at a single glance, so it actually might make one tiny bit of a difference, but not much more.

Fancy knots are a great way to solicit compliments and start conversations, but I would not wear one at a med school interview. In fact, I personally don't wear fancy knots unless I basically already know the people who will see me in the tie. They can make you look like a jack*&$. The Atlantic knot is an example of a fancy knot. Almost everything that is not four-in-hand, half Windsor, or full Windsor is a fancy knot, with the possible exception of the Pratt knot.
 
Crayola227 said:
the fields it seems to go over in best are peds and neuro

this is based on my friend's interviews

peds for obvious reasons
neuro, they are poindexter/urkel types as a stereotype so you'd fit in

medicine they're poindexter types but they don't embrace it like neuro does, they resent the stereotype although it's true, so I don't recommend

keep in mind regional and individual program differences play into this advice
Click to expand...
I think I could do it in psych, if I hated myself and wanted to look like ****.

Not everyone can pull off a bow tie. And even if someone here thinks they can, think long and hard about if you should.
 
CoomassieBlue57 said:
I completely disagree. I wore a "trinity knot" to all but one interview, and received positive comments every time I wore it from other interviewees and interviewers.

Was this the reason I was accepted? No, but it is a subtle way to be unique.

This is what it looks like. View attachment 206520 View attachment 206522
Click to expand...
It's a fine knot, and can serve you well if using the right tie and shirt combination. I'm a fan of the eldredge myself, but as with any knot, it's as much about knowing when to use the knot as it is about using it. If you use a fancy knot with a heavily patterned tie, it looks like ****.
eldredge-knot-e1420776670627.png
 
I think there are two ways to successfully pull off a bow tie:

Option A: Be so normal and respectable in every way that the bow tie does not make you weird.

Option B: Be so weird and out-there that a bow tie really is only one more drop in the bucket.

In either case, I think it is too risky to wear a bow tie to a med school interview. If you are normal, then you don't want to risk it. If you are very weird, then you want to subdue that impression with a conservative long tie.
 
TaupePremed said:
I think there are two ways to successfully pull off a bow tie:

Option A: Be so normal and respectable in every way that the bow tie does not make you weird.

Option B: Be so weird and out-there that a bow tie really is only one more drop in the bucket.

In either case, I think it is too risky to wear a bow tie to a med school interview. If you are normal, then you don't want to risk it. If you are very weird, then you want to subdue that impression with a conservative long tie.
Click to expand...
I wore one to 75% of my interviews. I don't disagree with you. But here's the thing, if you've never worn a bow tie before, a med school interview is not the place to do it. I would probably say less than 5% of applicants wear a bow tie to an interview because less than 5% of applicants wear a bow tie to start with.
 
CyrilFiggis said:
I wore one to 75% of my interviews. I don't disagree with you. But here's the thing, if you've never worn a bow tie before, a med school interview is not the place to do it. I would probably say less than 5% of applicants wear a bow tie to an interview because less than 5% of applicants wear a bow tie to start with.
Click to expand...
I've just seen too many poor examples of it over the years. If you aren't:

1: Really, really old,
2: Really, really ridiculously good looking,
3: The Doctor, or
4: Really, really ridiculously weird,

Don't wear a bow tie. You might fall into one of the previous categories, in which case, awesome. But most of the time, ugh pls no
 
gyngyn said:
This is a good moment to point out that button-down collars are too informal for a medical school interview.
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Remember, kids, button down collars are athletic wear. You may as well go to the interview with your tie and jacket put on over a basketball jersey.

On a related note. @gyngyn , I recently picked up a very nice pair of shoes. Dark brown, quarter brogue, go beautifully with my grey suit. The problem is, they're derbies rather than oxfords 🙁. Is this too casual for my interview? Will the adcoms be snickering behind my back?
 
We aren't reading GQ magazine in our spare time. I was critical of an applicant who wore a button down shirt with the collar unbuttoned but otherwise its all good. Shirt, tie, suit jacket with matching trousers. socks and shoes. We care much more about what's in the suit that the suit itself.
 
hurtem&healem said:
Remember, kids, button down collars are athletic wear. You may as well go to the interview with your tie and jacket put on over a basketball jersey.

On a related note. @gyngyn , I recently picked up a very nice pair of shoes. Dark brown, quarter brogue, go beautifully with my grey suit. The problem is, they're derbies rather than oxfords 🙁. Is this too casual for my interview? Will the adcoms be snickering behind my back?
Click to expand...
I think you are ok.
 
🤣 Had to look up what a "button down" shirt was and, correct me if I'm wrong, apparently it's just a dress shirt with buttons on the sides of the collar. I went and looked at some of my shirts and found quite a few of them, so I'm pretty sure I wore at least one of them to an interview. I had no idea having buttons on the collar was a big deal - in fact, I probably never even noticed them.
 
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Nothing says "I would look smashing in a white coat" like a perfectly-executed full windsor knot. However, it looks silly if you don't do it right. So wear whatever looks good and kill it!
 
This thread has gotten way off topic. To answer the OP:

Windsor knot. That's what you wear.

Half windsor? What, are you and the interviewer going out for drinks later? *denied*
Four in hand tie? Might have worked for your frat pledge. Welcome to med school pledge. *denied*
Trinity knot (or any other variation of those "look at me and my weird knot I practiced all night!" ties), you go in the same category as a bow tie. *denied*

Anyone who says otherwise is trolling.
 
Donald Juan said:
This thread has gotten way off topic. To answer the OP:

Windsor knot. That's what you wear.

Half windsor? What, are you and the interviewer going out for drinks later? *denied*
Four in hand tie? Might have worked for your frat pledge. Welcome to med school pledge. *denied*
Trinity knot (or any other variation of those "look at me and my weird knot I practiced all night!" ties), you go in the same category as a bow tie. *denied*

Anyone who says otherwise is trolling.
Click to expand...
Apparently, people wanting to have a drink with you is the number one qualification for the Presidency. If it's good enough for election to most powerful position in the Free World, it's good enough for med school admissions. Half windsor all day, every day.

In all seriousness, though, IMO it has to do with your personal build as much as anything else. Unless you're built like a wrestler, with a 20+ inch neck, the full windsor just takes up too much real estate.

Agreed about the four-in-hand, though. It is exclusively for children and those who wear ties without a jacket :vomit:
 
Ok, what's thoughts on a tie clip? I like using one, and helps keep a professional look (imo).

Sent from my Nexus 6P using SDN mobile
 
Haha, I misread something. Tie bars (tie clips) are fine.
 
Last edited:
The half-Windsor is a 100% acceptable knot. It is my favorite knot.

Whenever someone says "only a full Windsor will do", I wonder what kind of ties they are using. Often the answer is "cheap ties". Full Windsor knots look very bulky with a nice tie, because the tie has lining inside and is rather thick. Only very cheap ties are thin enough to look reasonable with a full Windsor knot.

If you buy a nicer, thicker tie, you will find that a half-Windsor looks amazing. A nicer tie also makes it easier to tie a nice knot with a good dimple.
 
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