PhD/PsyD Tips for using the APPIC directory? Sources for research-oriented sites?

[HPB2015]

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I will be applying to internship this coming cycle and was hoping for advice/resources for how to best use the APPIC directory/find sites of interest. I miss the good ole' days of working through the Insider's Guide with a highlighter...

So far my experience with trying to use the search mechanisms has been a bit lackluster. I would love some tips on how to search most effectively, since my desire to review lists of every site in every state I could feasibly live (in order to be thorough) is probably (?) unreasonable.

Finally, I'm wondering if anyone is able to refer me to lists of sites which prioritize research (relatively speaking, I realize) or are more suitable for those aiming for a research career. The only list I am aware of is those sites affiliated with APCS, and there must be more than a dozen known programs with such a bent... I know you can search the APPIC directory with a "research" designation under training opportunities, but if there are any other curated lists around I've failed to find, I'd love the advice.

Thanks very much!

 

[Spydra]

I can't help you find a list, but when I attended the internship workshops at APA last year I asked about finding sites that offer research. What I learned is that a lot of sites are willing to support research if interns ask for those opportunities. So it may not be a large focus, but the opportunities are there for those who want them. Some of this may depend on the type of research you want to do, but the more flexible you are the better. Intervention groups, case studies, and program evaluations are options that were suggested that I previously hadn't considered.

 

[EmotRegulation]

The question in my mind is WHY you want a site that focuses on research. Do you want a post-doc or do you want to be faculty at a medical center? Do you want grant-writing experience? Because if the answer to those questions is 'yes' absolutely pursue a research focused site. But you can pursue a research career without doing an internship that is research-heavy. I'm a good case example here. I knew I wanted an academic career and I did, in fact, land a tenure-track job straight from internship, but I also intentionally applied to a variety of research focused sites (Brown, MUSC, Western Psych, Duke, University of Washington) and even more sites that were NOT research focused, but research supportive--sites where there was 4 hours of protected research time but where there were no expectations of working on a research project DURING the internship year. I ultimately ranked non-research heavy sites at the top of my list and matched at one of those non-research heavy sites. I decided that this was my last year of doing a LOT of clinical work, and I wanted a training-focused site that emphasized work-life balance and where I could get great clinical experiences that I could then talk about when teaching or use to fuel later research projects. I have zero regrets. My internship was 40 hours a week and I definitely didn't work all 40 hours, I had time to apply for jobs and finish my dissertation at night, and I did a LOT of socializing and exploring the area on nights/weekends. Internship was a great year.

Point being, there are plenty of research focused sites (other ones: University of Illinois at Chicago, University of Mississippi Medical Center, Yale, Mass Gen, UCSD, plus plenty I don't remember off the top of my head) but you don't NEED a research focused site to have a research focused career. (And for what it's worth, I actually did end up publishing a paper with internship supervisors!)

 

[singasongofjoy]

You're right that is probably not feasible or a good use of time. Maybe jsut do that for your two top geographical aspirations but don't get hung up on geography and focus really more on the fact this is your possible last opportunity to get really solid training in a variety of types of cases. A good starting point to find sites is to talk to people ahead of you in your program - or others that you know who have gone on internship and have similar interests- and find out both where they went for internship (and if they thought it was a good match) and also where else they interviewed and where else they applied. Several people sent me their spreadsheets and I started by looking into those sites and that basically built my list of where to apply. Also def take into account the two above comments about research-heavy vs research supportive. Also see if you can team up with others who are applying this year to split the legwork of researchign sites. My grad school bff and I created a shared google docs folder, shared spreadsheet (color coordinated and everything!) and even a shared calendar so we could try to have interviews at the same sites at the same time and it certainly made the whole process a lot easier, more efficient, and more fun (eh, that part is all relative of course!)

 

[HPB2015]

@Spydra @EmotRegulation @singasongofjoy Thanks so much for your responses, all super helpful.

All of you suggested seeking out sites that are research-supportive versus focused. That sounds great and totally reasonable and would be a nice fit for me. Is this a matter of carefully looking through internship brochures (and, eventually interviews etc.) or would you suggest any particular flags to look for - for example I was thinking that academic medical centers, psychiatry depts, psych depts may be more supportive of research time than say community health centers (but I'm not sure if that's the right way to look at it).

I decided that this was my last year of doing a LOT of clinical work, and I wanted a training-focused site that emphasized work-life balance and where I could get great clinical experiences that I could then talk about when teaching or use to fuel later research projects. I have zero regrets. My internship was 40 hours a week and I definitely didn't work all 40 hours, I had time to apply for jobs and finish my dissertation at night, and I did a LOT of socializing and exploring the area on nights/weekends. Internship was a great year.

@EmotRegulation your internship site sounds ideal and I'm guessing you are a very efficient/skilled researcher and clinician! I would love to hear more about how you identified that your site emphasized work-life balance! Thanks in advance.

 

[iliketohelppeople]

Thanks so much for your responses, all super helpful.

All of you suggested seeking out sites that are research-supportive versus focused. That sounds great and totally reasonable and would be a nice fit for me. Is this a matter of carefully looking through internship brochures (and, eventually interviews etc.) or would you suggest any particular flags to look for - for example I was thinking that academic medical centers, psychiatry depts, psych depts may be more supportive of research time than say community health centers (but I'm not sure if that's the right way to look at it).

I totally agree with everyone on research-supportive. I went to one that was research-supportive in their policies (but I had to do the legwork to make research connections and sell it to faculty, but some of the faculty were not supportive but I ended up doing it anyways). Ended up being one of the best training experiences - I made long lasting connections and opened up a great new area of research that merged well with my previous research. It was one aspect that made my year.

Definitely read through their brochures; that is where I first caught wind of these opportunities. Then ask around on interviews about it too. I think you are right that there may be particular sites that may be more open to this (e.g., VAs, AMCs as opposed to CMHC). Others may have thoughts. Another thought is that I don't think it is completely uncommon to have dissertation release time (~usually 4 hours a week; probably saw it in a third of my applied-to internship sites), and if you got your dissertation done you may be able to sell them on having that time be for other research projects.

In terms of work-life balance, it can be good to see what specifics they have in their brochures as well (My internship had something saying they worked 40 hours per week and wanted interns to enjoy their time off) and then follow that up with asking the current interns what their experiences are.

 

[Spydra]

@HPB2015 Well I'm applying this season too so I don't know the "right" answer, but I'll share my approach. Some sites that I'm applying to I met the TDs when I went to APA last year and I just asked directly about their openness to research, what limits are placed on how dissertation release time can be used, etc. Now that my essays are complete one of the clear themes across all of them is me straight up saying "I want to do research and I want to be in an environment that will support that." I'm also not assuming any type of site won't be research supportive. I think that really is going to depend on what kind of research you want to do. Like a CMHC might be a great site for a diversity themed project and given the calls for more research on diverse groups, why wouldn't they support that? So for me, any site that views my materials and knows they don't want to be research-supportive, I'm happy to not be invited to interview because fit goes both ways.

 

[psychlife19]

When I was applying, I saw some of the bigger VA’s had a research rotation or that research was very supported. For some reason I wanna say cleveland brown VA was one of those, but this was so long ago I could be completely off!!

So my tip is to check out VA’s. Each brochure will have a table that says “you will find a lot of this here, you will find some of this here, and you will find none of this here”. I think the table is standard for VA internship brochures.

 

[Psychchick09]

It’s been a couple years, but I remember the Cincinnati VA having some good research opportunities. I think the current intern I spoke with had a full day of protected research time?

 

[futureapppsy2]

Realistically, it will often be difficult to do much new research at an internship site, as you are only there for a year and the experience is, by design, a full-time clinical position. Some people manage it, but it can be logistically tough and often not worth it for the site faculty.

 

[Spydra]

Realistically, it will often be difficult to do much new research at an internship site, as you are only there for a year and the experience is, by design, a full-time clinical position. Some people manage it, but it can be logistically tough and often not worth it for the site faculty.

I've often wondered if this will evolve since it is no longer the case that internship year is when you first see patients/clients. I'm not suggesting the internship year disappear, but with some students having a combination of Master's and doctoral hours or just accruing a ton of hours during their doctorate and sites requiring more hours to apply, it does seem like there might be room for internship to allow more research.

 

[WisNeuro]

I've often wondered if this will evolve since it is no longer the case that internship year is when you first see patients/clients. I'm not suggesting the internship year disappear, but with some students having a combination of Master's and doctoral hours or just accruing a ton of hours during their doctorate and sites requiring more hours to apply, it does seem like there might be room for internship to allow more research.

I've been faculty at some good VA sites. Rarely did we get interns that didn't need extensive clinical training and supervision to be ready for post internship work. As a faculty, I would be deadset against giving more than 1 day of research at my internship site. More clinjical hours coming in doesn't necessarily mean better clinician. Quality of those hours is probably more important than quantity.

 

[Spydra]

I've been faculty at some good VA sites. Rarely did we get interns that didn't need extensive clinical training and supervision to be ready for post internship work. As a faculty, I would be deadset against giving more than 1 day of research at my internship site. More clinjical hours coming in doesn't necessarily mean better clinician. Quality of those hours is probably more important than quantity.

Oh of course quality of training matters, which is why I don't see a world with no internship year. I'm not sure how the poor quality within programs will be addressed, but agree that does need to be resolved. I'm thinking more about sites that don't have any protected research time or sites that maybe just offer a couple hours. I think a whole day of protected research time would be amazing and I fought hard to have that throughout my program.

 

[nessa34]

Do you want an internship that provides lots of protected research time, or an internship that looks to prepare people for academic careers? I did the latter, and although we had a lot of freedom in deciding how heavy we wanted our clinical schedule to be, we only had a half day of protected research time (and protected is a generous description). My TD was pretty frank that we shouldn't expect to get anything more than a poster out of our research project for the year. I had friends at other internship sites that were less 'research focused' but had much more protected time. On the other hand, I felt very supported at my internship as someone who wanted a research career, and was able to stay at the site for postdoc, which helped with productivity.

there are a few threads here on research-focused sites. I would also check with other people in your program or colleagues doing similar work (I emailed lots of people for advice/materials when I was applying, and people were really helpful). The apcs listing is a good start, and I believe SSCP also has a directory. I found the 'research' tag on APPIC to be very unhelpful, as that's just if the TDs check that box or not.

 

[HPB2015]

@nessa34 would you mind saying more about what an internship site that "prepares people for academic careers" looks like? Thanks!

As for me, I think protected research time to continue to work on ongoing projects even if not starting new ones would be great. I think I am most concerned about the feasibility of having time to do anything other than clinical work.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I've often wondered if this will evolve since it is no longer the case that internship year is when you first see patients/clients. I'm not suggesting the internship year disappear, but with some students having a combination of Master's and doctoral hours or just accruing a ton of hours during their doctorate and sites requiring more hours to apply, it does seem like there might be room for internship to allow more research.

It used to be the case that you wouldn't see clients until internship??

 

[Spydra]

It used to be the case that you wouldn't see clients until internship??

This was discussed in my interventions class, that 'way back when' programs were theory and research driven. Then you went to internship and got your client experience there. I honestly don't know why that ever made sense, but apparently that's the way it used to be.

 

[nessa34]

@nessa34 would you mind saying more about what an internship site that "prepares people for academic careers" looks like? Thanks!

As for me, I think protected research time to continue to work on ongoing projects even if not starting new ones would be great. I think I am most concerned about the feasibility of having time to do anything other than clinical work.

Sure, I felt my internship acknowledged that most of us were not going into careers primarily involving delivery of clinical services, and so were encouraging of clinical training goals that were in service of our career goals, such as getting experience in a population or treatment modality you were interested in incorporating into your research, doing a rotation to round out your clinical training in a population you weren't going to to have the chance to get exposure to after internship, or just doing a rotation you enjoyed to keep you sane.
Lots of informal discussion/didactics about work/life balance in clinical research, how to find a research postdoc or faculty job (and pros/cons of one vs. the other), etc.
Most of my supervisors got that I was involved in research and so were fine with me missing part of a rotation every once in a while to go to a conference or a talk.
This all may not be very unique to research-focused internships, but coming from a grad program where I didn't always feel that the more clinical faculty were supportive of research-oriented students, the blend of research emphasis + clinical training made me feel like I could actually be myself. My internship has a somewhat-captive postdoc because of its orientation, and so being able to use the internship year to start up postdoc research was also a big help.

FWIW, I did a fair amount of work on ongoing/future projects during internship, but mostly nights and weekends. I found my ability to get research work done was determined more by how demanding my rotations were, rather than the amount of protected research time I had. It's a lot easier to analyze data for a couple hours after a non-chaotic clinical day.

 

[EmotRegulation]

@EmotRegulation your internship site sounds ideal and I'm guessing you are a very efficient/skilled researcher and clinician! I would love to hear more about how you identified that your site emphasized work-life balance! Thanks in advance.
[/QUOTE]

Most of the VAs are pretty good about keeping to a 40-hour per week schedule. I learned a lot about typical working hours on interviews from current interns more than in the brochures. The training directors at some sites are very clear about "it's 5pm, I want you to go home" and others don't say that. The research-focused sites often require research on top of a full clinical schedule, so those are more work-intensive sites. Space/time to write notes and reports during the work day are also good signs--getting clients scheduled back to back all day long is a receipe for a long day and less work-life balance.

 

[psychnomster]

I think it would be helpful to check out which VAs are "Center of excellence" for [insert topic e.g., primary care, SMI, PTSD, etc.].

Take note of which sites offer a research postdoc/have high research requirements for postdoc (sometimes working backward can help).

Syracuse VA offers a lot of research. I'm thinking possibly Connecticut (Hartford) VA, Palo Alto VA (possibly), Boston VA (maybe), and Buffalo VA might also offer research.

Check out some of the sites that are affiliated with large universities as well, those might have ongoing research projects.

 

[hopefulclinicalpsych]

I think it would be helpful to check out which VAs are "Center of excellence" for [insert topic e.g., primary care, SMI, PTSD, etc.].

Take note of which sites offer a research postdoc/have high research requirements for postdoc (sometimes working backward can help).

Syracuse VA offers a lot of research. I'm thinking possibly Connecticut (Hartford) VA, Palo Alto VA (possibly), Boston VA (maybe), and Buffalo VA might also offer research.

Check out some of the sites that are affiliated with large universities as well, those might have ongoing research projects.

I second the CoE comment! I‘m on internship at a VA that has a CoE and they’re very supportive of me doing research. I get 6 hours a week for the entire year. I block off my time and my supervisors know/are supportive of that.