Tired of everything...

[ronin8]

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I'm an intern at a 4y categorical program who had interviews at top programs but ended up scrambling for some reason and moving somewhere I didn't want to live in. For various reasons, the office staff hate me and I have a reputation as I complained about working over 80 hours the first month. Now I'm just tired of all the BS of working in a hospital and I dread waking up every morning to go there, see patients, deal with crap.

I really want to just start over and transfer somewhere, but I hear you need the PD to write you a letter or something, and as I'm already on thin ice that ain't happening. Is there a way to just scramble in March without applying to ERAS again for the Match? How can I get out of this mess? I'm already depressed. I can't quit, I'm deep in debt, and got no other job options.

Please help, thanks

 

[raspberry swirl]

not that this is a very encouraging answer, but you might be surprised about the PD writing you a letter. he or she probably already knows you aren't happy and in that case, aren't a good fit for the program. he or she may be happy to help you find placement elsewhere. if you are a smart intern who gets his or her work done, you may be able to get a good letter that states all of your positive qualities while mentioning that the program and the location just weren't a great fit for you. as i dont know specifics, i have no idea if this would happen for you or not, but as long as you're not an idiot who has killed a half a dozen patients, your PD will probably be happy to help you find a place where you will do your best job. (or at least the PD should, assuming he or she has the best interest of the program, its interns, and its patients, at heart).

as a disclaimer, i am an MSIV who has not been in this situation, but i have been milling around on sdn since i was a wee little pre-med and this is the vibe that i have gotten from reading other similar threads in the past.

 

[NinerNiner999]

It sounds like you may need to improve your interpersonal skills (just going by what you have suggested - did not match despite interviewing at top programs, now having difficulty with your co-workers). Don't take this as a personal attack, but I think you should probaby try to improve your relationships and your demeanor before you escape to another location. The medical field is tough, but the best thing you can do for your career is learn to interact with as many people as possible in a friendly and collegial manner IMHO. Stay, learn, and improve - that is the whole point of residency.

 

[RxnMan]

A frequent poster named Panda Bear went through the same thing last year. Check out his blog for more info.

 

[sepsis]

I understand about the reputation thing, but you have not only the right to complain about >80hours you have the RESPONSIBILITY to do so. Simply put programs face accreditation loss because this problem is SO very serious and vital to not only your mentalphysical health but your pts health.

I hate when people feel sht on for doing the right thing.

You have the nerve and drive to stand up for yourself, so just figure out what you want to do and take those steps.

 

[jennyboo]

I want to say that, to some extent, your experience has a lot in common with all interns' experiences. I wouldn't be so quick as to think that you've irrevocably messed up your reputation, etc for the rest of your residency. There are times when we all feel we've said the wrong thing, overstepped, etc and brought wrath upon ourselves. I think that's a common experience of internship (people know they can crap on you as an intern -- they do it because they know it'll never come back to them) and it's part of the reason why the year sucks. 🙂

Maybe it's a little premature to jump ship now and scramble into another spot somewhere else? Scrambling wasn't and probably isn't going to be a way to get yourself out of a bad situation.... there's usually a reason why programs need scramblers and you probably wouldn't end up somewhere much better than where you are unless you're unusually fortunate.

Don't think too much of having screwed up socially the first month. You can pick yourself up and bear with it -- maybe it'll get better for you later on. I still have days when I dread going into work (usually after a bad interpersonal interaction the day before). That's not an uncommon thing.

 

[3dtp]

I'm an intern at a 4y categorical program who had interviews at top programs but ended up scrambling for some reason and moving somewhere I didn't want to live in. For various reasons, the office staff hate me and I have a reputation as I complained about working over 80 hours the first month. Now I'm just tired of all the BS of working in a hospital and I dread waking up every morning to go there, see patients, deal with crap.

I really want to just start over and transfer somewhere, but I hear you need the PD to write you a letter or something, and as I'm already on thin ice that ain't happening. Is there a way to just scramble in March without applying to ERAS again for the Match? How can I get out of this mess? I'm already depressed. I can't quit, I'm deep in debt, and got no other job options.

Please help, thanks

Hey there ronin,

I went through exactly the same situation you did at my prelim year program. So did Panda Bear and annette and quite a few others. Life will get better for you, I assure you. You, like many of us were naive and thought that rules were meant to be followed. Obviously hospitals are not on the same page in some cases. My subsequent program does obey the rules with a passion. Look in this week's JAMA. The Harvard folks had the forsight to do a prospective study on the eve of the enforcement of the 80 hours rules. They found that there are many, many hospitals like yours. It doesn't make it any easier, but you are not alone and you can get through it. For now, keep your head down, lie low, if you think you can find another program and want to work out a switch, discuss it with your program director. If the program is non-malignant, others here are right. If it is malignant, you'll know that right away, and you can smile and politely say, "I'm thrilled, proud and happy to be here." Then keep your head down and do your work and learn as much as you can until you can complete or get out. Life after residency gets much, much better.

 

[8744]

A frequent poster named Panda Bear went through the same thing last year. Check out his blog for more info.

True, but I got along well with the office staff, was very gung ho (I mean for an intern) and remained bright-eyed and bushy-tailed almost until the end. I confess that my last couple of weeks there I did a little malingering and was very non-cooperative as I didn't really want to work as hard as they wanted me to but I got out of there with my reputation intact. I wouldn't even have made any negative comments about the program on my blog except that the program was shut down (due to lack of interest) so it doesn't matter any more.

Of course, I was doing all off-service rotations so I didn't really have to interact with my program on anything like a regular basis. Absence makes the heart grow fonder but familiarity breeds contempt.

 

[8744]

I'm an intern at a 4y categorical program who had interviews at top programs but ended up scrambling for some reason and moving somewhere I didn't want to live in. For various reasons, the office staff hate me and I have a reputation as I complained about working over 80 hours the first month. Now I'm just tired of all the BS of working in a hospital and I dread waking up every morning to go there, see patients, deal with crap.

I really want to just start over and transfer somewhere, but I hear you need the PD to write you a letter or something, and as I'm already on thin ice that ain't happening. Is there a way to just scramble in March without applying to ERAS again for the Match? How can I get out of this mess? I'm already depressed. I can't quit, I'm deep in debt, and got no other job options.

Please help, thanks

I can really sympathize with you. I had a similar "crisis of faith" last year about this same time when I realized that I disliked the specialty and program into which I had scrambled. I hate the City of Durham with a passion (the only time you will ever hear me use the word "passion" by the way) because everything in it reminded me of what a friggin' failure I was and what a waste of time my medical career was going to be. My wife, my kids, my inlaws, my mother...they all thought Durham was great and everyone in the world agrees that the "triangle" (the Raleigh-Durham area) is a fantasitc place to live and that Duke is a really special institution.

Me, I just hated it. The best day of my life was when I logged onto the NRMP website last March and found that I had matched into something else somewhere far, far away.

You need to get on the ball go through ERAS again, and soon. You can scramble in March but your prospective program is going to want to talk to your program director so scramble day is not the best time to have someone spring it on him that you are leaving. Do the right thing. Match or scramble, tell your PD of your intentions.

 

[8744]

Hey there ronin,

I went through exactly the same situation you did at my prelim year program. So did Panda Bear and annette and quite a few others. Life will get better for you, I assure you. You, like many of us were naive and thought that rules were meant to be followed. Obviously hospitals are not on the same page in some cases. My subsequent program does obey the rules with a passion. Look in this week's JAMA. The Harvard folks had the forsight to do a prospective study on the eve of the enforcement of the 80 hours rules. They found that there are many, many hospitals like yours. It doesn't make it any easier, but you are not alone and you can get through it. For now, keep your head down, lie low, if you think you can find another program and want to work out a switch, discuss it with your program director. If the program is non-malignant, others here are right. If it is malignant, you'll know that right away, and you can smile and politely say, "I'm thrilled, proud and happy to be here." Then keep your head down and do your work and learn as much as you can until you can complete or get out. Life after residency gets much, much better.

Have you considered that maybe the best strategy for the OP is to be so abrasive, so obnoxious about obeying and forcing his program to obey the rules that they will be afraid to mess with him? I mean, everybody including me is always counseling laying low and being civil but maybe the best strategy would be to serve notice that you are watching them like a hawk and will blow the whistle hard and long at the first sign of an infraction, then dare them to **** with you.

Basically the punch them in the gut and then stand over them laughing strategy.

 

[Mirror Form]

Have you considered that maybe the best strategy for the OP is to be so abrasive, so obnoxious about obeying and forcing his program to obey the rules that they will be afraid to mess with him? I mean, everybody including me is always counseling laying low and being civil but maybe the best strategy would be to serve notice that you are watching them like a hawk and will blow the whistle hard and long at the first sign of an infraction, then dare them to **** with you.

Basically the punch them in the gut and then stand over them laughing strategy.

I don't know, the staff have a lot more power over the interns than vice versa. They might have reason to be a little afraid of him, but he better be a lot afraid of them. Worst case scenario is they're on probation for a year. Worst case scenario for him is that his career is destroyed.

 

[Lonestar]

Tell me this is a joke. Did i just hear someone telling this guy to fight back against "the institution". Let me get you back to reality. Residency = slave labor camp (no field spared). There is a reason why there is a lot of garbage in academia. Thats because the garbage cannot be taken out. Residents are expendable. Attendings are not. In a way, not much has changed in medicine in decades except the declining pay. Just kiss and make up would be my advice.

 

[Faebinder]

Get through it (even if you have to get an SSRI prescription)... . else there are many who will happily replace you.

 

[cytoborg]

Having to scramble and ending up somewhere not even on your radar screen was probably depressing on its own - let alone also having to deal with the natural course of residency (especially the 1st year) when everyone thinks they can **** on you, you're sleep deprived, and you're generally miserable. When even a secretary treats you like crap you really start feeling like everyone's out to get you. **** really does roll down hill and thus interns get the worst of it. Depression is rampant among residents...it sounds like you may have joined the club.

Leaving the program may very well be the best thing for you and clearly there are ppl on here who have done it successfully - but I think the 1st thing you should do is see somebody (unaffiliated with your hospital, not on your insurance plan) and see if an SSRI is in order. You'll be in a better position to initiate the process of changing programs if you aren't feeling like ****.

Good luck.

 

[Lonestar]

Dear ronin8,
looks like you are in a bind. i don't know how you got the reputation of a "complainer" but things do get to be blown out of proportion. It is always easier to hate than love; just normal human behavior. But if you work hard, show enthusiasm, kiss ass, then slowly your reputation will change. So what if you started on the wrong foot. it only matters how you finish. give it some time. if you are still very unhappy at the end of your first year, then you can consider other options. By that time you have made some allies at your program to help guide you with your career choice.

 

[ronin8]

thanks for all the replies everyone. as winter approaches, i know it's going to get worse but i'll try not to do anything rash at the moment..

i feel like a pavlov dog, conditioned against hospitals. i cringe when i see it everyday

 

[starrynaya]

office staff can really make or break your day. Sometimes it doesn't matter how nice you are or how you try to get along with them; they are determined to be rude and make you feel stupid. consider yourself lucky if your school has nice staff- i never realized what a blessing it could be!
And incidently is there no quality control when it comes to hiring office staff? Some people are wonderful and get the job done; others are perfectly miserable to talk to!! And I wonder why such people get to continue their jobs, day after day, with no repercussions. I would think a doctor who was unprofessional would eventually lose their job, why doesn't this happen with staff?

 

[AlloImmune]

office staff can really make or break your day. Sometimes it doesn't matter how nice you are or how you try to get along with them; they are determined to be rude and make you feel stupid. consider yourself lucky if your school has nice staff- i never realized what a blessing it could be!
And incidently is there no quality control when it comes to hiring office staff? Some people are wonderful and get the job done; others are perfectly miserable to talk to!! And I wonder why such people get to continue their jobs, day after day, with no repercussions. I would think a doctor who was unprofessional would eventually lose their job, why doesn't this happen with staff?

Do you know how hard it is to fire office staff at big academic institutions? I know some at my school who have been around for years, shuffled from being one attending's assistant to another (less senior) because they could not hack it. Finally (because no one can put up with their laziness but they can't be fired) they get "promoted" to being the "medical student cooridinator" or "residency coordinator" for that department. The good ones seem to be the exception rather than the rule, but I guess we will have to keep kissing thier a**es, regardless of their talents.