to ADCOMS: How common are 520+, low gpa <3.5 with true reinvention applicants?

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Not asking for specific number, but in general. Based on MCAT/GPA grid, around 80% of 517+ have high GPA, and the gap is probably even bigger for 520+ who are already a fraction of applicants. So I'm wondering how often you come across 520+, >3.5, with reinvention/trend, that had low gpa because of situational factors.

I'm asking because there is a lot of debate over how these applicants are viewed by adcoms, and the 10th percentile GPA is often used as proof that low GPA alone could end an application. But, could it be that the GPA range is so high because most high MCAT applicants already have hig GPA?

 

[Goro]

I seen this happen with applicants in my school, but I can't put a number on it.

It's more important to consider that there are plenty of MD schools that reward reinvention, and they're also plenty that can afford to ignore you, because they have plenty of applicants who did not need reinvention.

Sometimes you have to apply with the application you have, warts and all, and see how the app cycle turns out.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Not asking for specific number, but in general. Based on MCAT/GPA grid, around 80% of 517+ have high GPA, and the gap is probably even bigger for 520+ who are already a fraction of applicants. So I'm wondering how often you come across 520+, >3.5, with reinvention/trend, that had low gpa because of situational factors.

I'm asking because there is a lot of debate over how these applicants are viewed by adcoms, and the 10th percentile GPA is often used as proof that low GPA alone could end an application. But, could it be that the GPA range is so high because most high MCAT applicants already have hig GPA?

As pointed out, adcoms don't all view reinvention the same way, so there's no reason to have this debate other than to find out which schools' adcoms reward reinvention.

We also reject many applicants with high GPAs and high MCATs.

You can't make assumptions that all applicants are equal so that the best way to compare is with metrics. Otherwise, everyone who doesn't fit a certain height or weight or plank for more than 1 minute might as well not apply...

 

[LunaOri]

It’s not unusual, but most of those who get interviews have done some postbacc work and achieved a high gpa in those classes.

 

[LizzyM]

There is a concern sometimes that people with low GPA, high MCAT are smart and good at high stakes exams but don't do well in the day-to-day slog over 4 years which is of concern. Then there are the very talented students who made a poor choice in undergrad and ended up in a major that was a poor fit and/or where grading was savage (engineering), and those who weren't focused on grades in undergrad, majored in something unrelated to medicine (music performance, theology), and then came around to medicine as a non-trad. It really requires looking at the application and figuring out the story of this applicant and determining if there is a reasonable expectation that this applicant will thrive academically at our school. Whether they will be a good doctor is another story and one that you can't get at based on MCAT and GPA so we look at other items to get at that and then take the extra step of inviting for interview.

 

[Mpsll]

There is a concern sometimes that people with low GPA, high MCAT are smart and good at high stakes exams but don't do well in the day-to-day slog over 4 years which is of concern. Then there are the very talented students who made a poor choice in undergrad and ended up in a major that was a poor fit and/or where grading was savage (engineering), and those who weren't focused on grades in undergrad, majored in something unrelated to medicine (music performance, theology), and then came around to medicine as a non-trad. It really requires looking at the application and figuring out the story of this applicant and determining if there is a reasonable expectation that this applicant will thrive academically at our school. Whether they will be a good doctor is another story and one that you can't get at based on MCAT and GPA so we look at other items to get at that and then take the extra step of inviting for interview.

I see, so once the application is reviewed in depth I assume?

Would screeners automatically sort your application with a low priority due to the low gpa and thus, the in-depth reviewers won't see it until very late or perhaps not at all? And would proactively addressing low gpa in interviews help move up the staircase or should we just focus on the positives and move on in interviews?

 

[LizzyM]

I see, so once the application is reviewed in depth I assume?

Would screeners automatically sort your application with a low priority due to the low gpa and thus, the in-depth reviewers won't see it until very late or perhaps not at all? And would proactively addressing low gpa in interviews help move up the staircase or should we just focus on the positives and move on in interviews?

Yes, once there are eyeballs on the application. There are reports of schools that interview for the waitlist but mine does not. People interviewed on the last day have just as much chance of making it to the top of the staircase (or close enough to the top to get an offer) as those who interview on day #1.

I call things like a low-ish GPA "a pimple". Just as you wouldn't meet someone for a first date and start explaining a pimple on your face, you don't need to bring attention to a less than stellar GPA. It is obvious, it can't be helped, and the story of how you got it and/or how upset it makes you feel is not of interest. Instead, let me get to know you, hear the story of why you think you'll be a great student and a great doctor and we'll take it from there and the zit will fade into the background. Now there are some things that go beyond zits. If you had a GPA of 0.8 in your freshman year, took two gap years, came back and did well, that's more like a scar running from your temple to your chin. It is hard to ignore and a story someone will want to hear and may ask about in the most respectful way possible.

 

[fakeeagle]

Yes, once there are eyeballs on the application. There are reports of schools that interview for the waitlist but mine does not. People interviewed on the last day have just as much chance of making it to the top of the staircase (or close enough to the top to get an offer) as those who interview on day #1.

I call things like a low-ish GPA "a pimple". Just as you wouldn't meet someone for a first date and start explaining a pimple on your face, you don't need to bring attention to a less than stellar GPA. It is obvious, it can't be helped, and the story of how you got it and/or how upset it makes you feel is not of interest. Instead, let me get to know you, hear the story of why you think you'll be a great student and a great doctor and we'll take it from there and the zit will fade into the background. Now there are some things that go beyond zits. If you had a GPA of 0.8 in your freshman year, took two gap years, came back and did well, that's more like a scar running from your temple to your chin. It is hard to ignore and a story someone will want to hear and may ask about in the most respectful way possible.

This makes a lot of sense, but how low would you say it can go to remain a pimple? Curious because I know your school is T20 and stat heavy.

Do other factors of the app matter? Say 3.7-75 total GPA, but 80 credits of 3.95+, making the dual enrollment and first year GPA < 3.0 or < 3.5? With 518+ MCAT and strong rest of the app.

Also, when you say reasonable expectation of performing well in med school, is that possible based on the upward trend, even if there is no real "story" to the poor grades in first year - just struggling with Zoom learning and adjusting.

 

[LizzyM]

You have to apply broadly, and conservatively, without getting caught by schools that will yield protect because they don't believe you will choose them over a "better" offer. Readers of your application will take in the whole picture, including the grades earned in 2020-2021 (if any), the schools attended, the major, all of it, and decide if you are a good candidate for THAT SCHOOL. It is hard to predict how your application will land at each school and so you need to have a lot of applications out there with the hope that a few will lead to interviews and at least one will lead to an offer.

 

[fakeeagle]

You have to apply broadly, and conservatively, without getting caught by schools that will yield protect because they don't believe you will choose them over a "better" offer. Readers of your application will take in the whole picture, including the grades earned in 2020-2021 (if any), the schools attended, the major, all of it, and decide if you are a good candidate for THAT SCHOOL. It is hard to predict how your application will land at each school and so you need to have a lot of applications out there with the hope that a few will lead to interviews and at least one will lead to an offer.

Yes, this makes total sense - was just kind of curious at what GPA schools tend to "throw out" folks so to speak, since I'm reapplying, but my only IIs last year were at programs where my GPA was below the 10th, but my MCAT is >= 25th for all schools. So I guess, was just kinda curious, since I was shocked to only have them from the stat-lovers, if there was a point where the GPA was "salvageable" with trend etc. But it seems very individual based on the school and app reader.

In any case, happy to hear that even at the most stat-heavy places, trends seem to get considered a bit. Fingers crossed for the new cycle 🙂

Final question: When you say grades between 2020-2021, how are those "Zoom years" considered differently in the review?

Thanks for all the responses!

 

[LizzyM]

Some readers might recall how weird the 2020-2021 academic year was and how it may not reflect a student's real capacity to do well in a regular academic setting.