to do a SMP? 3.48 gpa, 519 MCAT, 2020 and 2021 no interviews

[applicant_6060]

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Hi all,

I am thinking about matriculating to the BU MAMS program this year. I have been accepted and am leaning towards attending the program. My reservation is that I may be able to similarly improve my application by completing a few courses while working as a CRC. I have thought this decision over quite a bit and talked with several people, but still feel uncertain about what should be my next step. If anyone has any input of advice, I would appreciate it.

Background: 2020 and 2021 cycle applicant - no interviews either year.

ORM.

3.48 undergraduate GPA, (3.71 Biochem major GPA, but did poorly (C / C-) in two upper level math classes for my minor).

519 MCAT (2017 test date so I will need to retake).

3 years of translational research as a research tec at an academic medical center. Five publications, two of which I am the first author.

About 200 hours of clinical volunteering and 200 hours of full-time clinical work in an inpatient unit.

I will need at least one new letter of recommendation for my next application as one of my previous letter writers has retired and is unwilling to write more letters.

My sense is I was getting screened out due to a low GPA or lacked a catchy narrative. I think the BU MAMS program can help me improve the GPA, reengage with the material tested on the MCAT, and work with faculty who will be able to write a letter on my behalf. Additionally, I would have something to show for my work after two years (even if it is just an MS). My alternative plan would be to transition to a CRC position in order to gain more clinical experience, while taking a couple of relevant courses and studying for the MCAT.

Thanks for any thoughts anyone can share!

 

[Goro]

You're fine for DO right now.

 

[gyngyn]

An SMP will have no effect on your undergrad gpa (except at DO schools that would interview you now without it).
If you do well, it may have an effect on schools with a track record of accepting applicants from that program.

 

[Doctoscope]

What schools did you apply to?

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hi all,

I am thinking about matriculating to the BU MAMS program this year. I have been accepted and am leaning towards attending the program. My reservation is that I may be able to similarly improve my application by completing a few courses while working as a CRC. I have thought this decision over quite a bit and talked with several people, but still feel uncertain about what should be my next step. If anyone has any input of advice, I would appreciate it.

Background: 2020 and 2021 cycle applicant - no interviews either year.

ORM.

3.48 undergraduate GPA, (3.71 Biochem major GPA, but did poorly (C / C-) in two upper level math classes for my minor).

519 MCAT (2017 test date so I will need to retake).

3 years of translational research as a research tec at an academic medical center. Five publications, two of which I am the first author.

About 200 hours of clinical volunteering and 600 hours of full-time clinical work in an inpatient unit.

I will need at least one new letter of recommendation for my next application as one of my previous letter writers has retired and is unwilling to write more letters.

My sense is I was getting screened out due to a low GPA or lacked a catchy narrative. I think the BU MAMS program can help me improve the GPA, reengage with the material tested on the MCAT, and work with faculty who will be able to write a letter on my behalf. Additionally, I would have something to show for my work after two years (even if it is just an MS). My alternative plan would be to transition to a CRC position in order to gain more clinical experience, while taking a couple of relevant courses and studying for the MCAT.

Thanks for any thoughts anyone can share!

I'm wondering if you aimed too high with the schools you applied to or applied late in the cycle or applied to fairly few schools. I'm also wondering if you really blew the essays.

If you do well in the SMTP, it could help you, BU on its site touts an 85% acceptance rate for those with a 3.5 GPA or above in the program.

 

[applicant_6060]

Thanks you all for the quick responses - In general, it sounds like completing the program (and doing well) may make a negligible to small increase in the competitiveness of my application. Of note, I had 200 not 600 hours of paid clinical experience. This typo has been edited.

what is your AMCAS GPA Grid? what is the pattern or trend

Here is the breakdown

What schools did you apply to?

I'm wondering if you aimed too high with the schools you applied to or applied late in the cycle or applied to fairly few schools. I'm also wondering if you really blew the essays.

If you do well in the SMTP, it could help you, BU on its site touts an 85% acceptance rate for those with a 3.5 GPA or above in the program.

You both are on to something. I over reached. I only managed to complete 20 applications and the distribution was centered too high up on the list - live and learn. I did include some more reasonable schools, but not enough. Of note, my home state does not have a public medical school.

I applied early. It is unlikely my essays were absolute stunners, but I do not think they detracted from my application, and maybe one or two of the secondaries provided a modest boost.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Apply DO today, enjoy an extra year of attending salary.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Where did you apply? I’m shocked that this profile didn’t get a handful of IIs based upon my review of past data.

Is right tail MCAT inflation a real issue? Seems as if scores are trending upwards past few cycles

 

[KnightDoc]

Where did you apply? I’m shocked that this profile didn’t get a handful of IIs based upon my review of past data.

Is right tail MCAT inflation a real issue? Seems as if scores are trending upwards past few cycles

Just what data have you seen regarding IIs? The only reliable data set I've seen involves As, and someone in OP's GPA and MCAT range has a 30% chance of striking out, so exactly what are you finding so shocking?

Of course, As, are not the same as IIs, but it stands to reason that a significant portion of folks with zero As also have zero IIs. So, again, what is so shocking about someone in a part of the pool where 30% have zero As not to have any IIs, and, more importantly, what past data are you looking at?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Striking out in terms of acceptances or interviews? I can see maybe getting unlucky in terms of post interview R/WLs but not getting an interview after two cycles seems more implausible. The MCAT looks good. Yes, gpa is on the lower side but not really an outlier.

I guess I should rephrase since data sources that I have looked at (past school specific threads, tracker, Reddit accepted profiles) contain biased samples. However, I have seen a good deal of people with OP’s GPA/MCAT get IIs and As. My original post should be phrased more like “your stats aren’t the main factor preventing success”

 

[KnightDoc]

Striking out in terms of acceptances or interviews? I can see maybe getting unlucky in terms of post interview R/WLs but not getting an interview after two cycles seems more implausible. The MCAT looks good. Yes, gpa is on the lower side but not really an outlier.

Again, what past data did you look at, or are you just sharing your feelings? 🙂 As I said, I am unaware of any reliable data on IIs, broken down by GPA and MCAT.

Yes, I am talking about As, and I don't find it shocking that someone in a group where 30% have zero As also had zero IIs, twice, especially if things didn't improve significantly between the two applications, which it sounds like they didn't. GPA and MCAT are fine -- 70% of people with that combo receive at least one A, which is significantly better than average. Still, that leaves 30% with nothing. Why would it be shocking that someone in that group didn't have any IIs?

 

[KnightDoc]

Striking out in terms of acceptances or interviews? I can see maybe getting unlucky in terms of post interview R/WLs but not getting an interview after two cycles seems more implausible. The MCAT looks good. Yes, gpa is on the lower side but not really an outlier.

I guess I should rephrase since data sources that I have looked at (past school specific threads, tracker, Reddit accepted profiles) contain biased samples. However, I have seen a good deal of people with OP’s GPA/MCAT get IIs and As. My original post should be phrased more like “your stats aren’t the main factor preventing success”

Fair enough! For the record, SDN and reddit posts, including the tracker, are the furthest things from reliable data sets!!!!

And, of course, you are correct about reviews going far beyond stats. So much so, that I actually believe the converse of what you are saying is what explains OP's predicament. It's not that 3.48/519 aren't the main factor preventing success. Rather, it's that such a superior MCAT, combined with such a so-so GPA, far from guarantee success, and that it shouldn't be shocking that such a candidate, without some wow factor, would not receive any IIs, when 30% of applicants with that stat combo do not receive a single A.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Thanks you all for the quick responses - In general, it sounds like completing the program (and doing well) may make a negligible to small increase in the competitiveness of my application. Of note, I had 200 not 600 hours of paid clinical experience. This typo has been edited.



View attachment 341846
Here is the breakdown



You both are on to something. I over reached. I only managed to complete 20 applications and the distribution was centered too high up on the list - live and learn. I did include some more reasonable schools, but not enough. Of note, my home state does not have a public medical school.

I applied early. It is unlikely my essays were absolute stunners, but I do not think they detracted from my application, and maybe one or two of the secondaries provided a modest boost.

To get accepted you need to have competitive qualifications at the schools you are applying to and present them effectively. As you acknowledge, you may have aimed too high. Obviously, that can be corrected. And as another poster suggested DO is an option. Your GPA could be mitigated through the SMTP. However, don't ignore the possibility that your didn't present yourself effectively. If poor presentation played a role in your previous rejections, you risk it playing a role in your future applications also.

 

[Detailsmatter]

I would harp down on making an appropriate school list as well as making sure 1000% that your writing for primaries and secondaries is on point

 

[Unconditionalloves]

I think the problem might be your application narrative, I know people with sub 3.0 GPA and sub 500 MCAT that got in last year.

I would harp down on making an appropriate school list as well as making sure 1000% that your writing for primaries and secondaries is on point

I agreed with Detailsmatter, in fact rather than spending money on additional classes get a professional consulting company of your choice to evaluate your application and give your feedback for this cycle.

 

[MDMechEngr]

519 MCAT is impressive and with the same amount of studying that you did before, you should be able able to acheive a 519 (+ or - 3 points). I would apply smartly this time around to MD schools and also include DO schools, but I think you can get an MD acceptance this time around. Unless you need help with your secondary and interview skills, I think a professional consultant is a waste of money. The good ones are very expensive. GL.

 

[Faha]

Which schools did you apply to ? Where is your state of residence ?

 

[32valveMD]

That MCAT and GPA is making it past screening at many schools. Something in your primary essay isn’t selling your narrative. Other schools that screen solely on secondaries aren’t seeing something in your essays that is compelling enough to offer an II. A 519 and your GPA cumulative/trend more than meet the “smart enough” requirement for med school.

 

[aurevoir0711]

Your stats look pretty good. I doubt GPA is the problem. I am almost certain that your essays and meaningful activities have not been polished as well as they could be. Scrap your personal statement and devote a decent amount of time to sharpening your application. What you did is important, but the way you present them is more important in the application process. Of course, that should be done without any falsification. As a back-up plan, maybe look for a clinical position like a MA or a scribe this cycle so that you have a lot more to talk about for the next cycle.

 

[Potatus]

Looking at your stats I think you either aimed too high for schools or did not craft a compelling enough narrative/statement as you indicated. I don't think the BU MAMS would hurt, but I do not think that is necessarily what your application needs at this point. You have shown that you are academically prepared for the rigors of medical school, and know what you're getting into (indicated by clinical experience).

I think that at this point I would encourage you to think outside of the box. What you have going for you so far is great: it just looks similar to a lot of other applicants.

Do you have any passion projects; hobbies, interests, pursuits outside of medicine? Or a volunteer opportunity that really gets you fired up? Commit to something outside of medicine that can still help hone qualities or attributes that will make you a good physician- and eventually tie this into your personal statement. For example, I coached youth sports the year prior to acceptance, and not only had a blast, but found ways to tie the challenges i experienced/overcame in that realm to qualities I would hope to demonstrate as a physician.

 

[Sixen]

I think the problem might be your application narrative, I know people with sub 3.0 GPA and sub 500 MCAT that got in last year.

I agreed with Detailsmatter, in fact rather than spending money on additional classes get a professional consulting company of your choice to evaluate your application and give your feedback for this cycle.

In what world are people with sub 3.0 GPAs and sub 500 MCATs getting acceptances. I applied to every single DO school with a 2.72 GPA and 511 MCAT and got denied from half the schools before secondaries.

I also have a ~1000 hours of clinic work, ~700-800 hours of undergraduate research and 6 LORs from people I’ve built great relationships with. Those stats don’t get you in anywhere. Sorry I just had to question that. I know it’s off topic but I’m not sure this is entirely true.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

SMP seems like overkill. You already have fine stats. I suspect off putting PS or inappropriate school list. Definitely include DO but I don’t see why you couldn’t get accepted to a low or mid tier MD. If you already had those on your list (not counting low yield like BU etc) get a trusted mentor to look over the PS. And get another trusted mentor if someone already has, especially if that person isn’t familiar with the modern med shook application process.

 

[Msizzle]

As a former SMP, and now an attending Doc, having the goggles looking back, I wish I never wasted the money on the masters. Go DO or IMG. You're clearly smart enough to kill your exams. If that's the case as long as you do well on your USMLEs you have nothing to fear. Not only will you be 60-70 less in debt, youll get an extra year of attending $$. Essentially by doing an smp you lose out on 200k attending gig plus 60-70k money for the program i.e. a 250-300k mistake. Unless money is not an object do yourself the favor and dont go into one of those programs. They all are miserable.

 

[Unconditionalloves]

In what world are people with sub 3.0 GPAs and sub 500 MCATs getting acceptances. I applied to every single DO school with a 2.72 GPA and 511 MCAT and got denied from half the schools before secondaries.

I also have a ~1000 hours of clinic work, ~700-800 hours of undergraduate research and 6 LORs from people I’ve built great relationships with. Those stats don’t get you in anywhere. Sorry I just had to question that. I know it’s off topic but I’m not sure this is entirely true.

https://www.aamc.org/media/6091/download
here is the data and you can find the acceptance evidence there, is at a Top 50 research-friendly midwest MD school! They had a very strong narrative that was a perfect fit for said school.... I know people with better stats than you that didn't get in the last cycle because of both poor narrative and poorly chosen School List. Many DOs will reject you if you are out of state or out of their Target region VCOM for example. regardless of having let's say a 4.0/528... Is part Luck, Part stats., all narrative !! how you sell yourself in Apps and Interviews makes all the difference sometimes.
PS the person is also Out of State.

 

[ampersandwich]

In what world are people with sub 3.0 GPAs and sub 500 MCATs getting acceptances. I applied to every single DO school with a 2.72 GPA and 511 MCAT and got denied from half the schools before secondaries.

I also have a ~1000 hours of clinic work, ~700-800 hours of undergraduate research and 6 LORs from people I’ve built great relationships with. Those stats don’t get you in anywhere. Sorry I just had to question that. I know it’s off topic but I’m not sure this is entirely true.

Me! I had a 2.8 uGPA and 517 when I applied last cycle, 4 MD interviews and was accepted at all of them. I didn't get a single interview at DO schools and didn't get secondaries at most schools either. The narrative that DO schools reward inventors does not hold true for the sub-3.0 crowd, even with a SMP (which I completed) and a high MCAT. (To add to this, I actually emailed adcoms at all the DO schools I applied to asking them to take a look at my application, and I was summarily dismissed by all of them. I'm attending a T30 now so whateverrrr.)

OP, I bet the issue is in your school list and/or essays. Your stats aren't keeping you out of schools but there is likely something on your app that is. People who complete MAMS do get into BUSM but IMO the linkage isn't strong enough to justify the price tag (20-30 MAMS students get into BUSM out of 150+/class!). This is one of those few cases where I would consider paying a consulting service to take a look, maybe scan your app for red flags. It'll be cheaper than MAMS' $60K price tag.

 

[Sixen]

Me! I had a 2.8 uGPA and 517 when I applied last cycle, 4 MD interviews and was accepted at all of them. I didn't get a single interview at DO schools and didn't get secondaries at most schools either. The narrative that DO schools reward inventors does not hold true for the sub-3.0 crowd, even with a SMP (which I completed) and a high MCAT. (To add to this, I actually emailed adcoms at all the DO schools I applied to asking them to take a look at my application, and I was summarily dismissed by all of them. I'm attending a T30 now so whateverrrr.)

OP, I bet the issue is in your school list and/or essays. Your stats aren't keeping you out of schools but there is likely something on your app that is. People who complete MAMS do get into BUSM but IMO the linkage isn't strong enough to justify the price tag (20-30 MAMS students get into BUSM out of 150+/class!). This is one of those few cases where I would consider paying a consulting service to take a look, maybe scan your app for red flags. It'll be cheaper than MAMS' $60K price tag.

This is so crazy. I literally didn't even get a secondary back from half of the DO schools. Are MD schools really more forgiving for reinvention? I mean, I'm planning to do an SMP. I highly doubt I'll get any MD looks if I don't complete one.. so I'm going to save my application fees for when I kill an SMP. Very interesting. Sorry, off topic but I find this very interesting. I guess in relation to OP, that would mean that your school list probably need a major revision.

 

[Unconditionalloves]

This is so crazy. I literally didn't even get a secondary back from half of the DO schools. Are MD schools really more forgiving for reinvention? I mean, I'm planning to do an SMP. I highly doubt I'll get any MD looks if I don't complete one.. so I'm going to save my application fees for when I kill an SMP. Very interesting. Sorry, off topic but I find this very interesting. I guess in relation to OP, that would mean that your school list probably need a major revision.

They are forgiving if you know to tell a good story that aligns with what they want for their mission and other reasons.

 

[ampersandwich]

This is so crazy. I literally didn't even get a secondary back from half of the DO schools. Are MD schools really more forgiving for reinvention? I mean, I'm planning to do an SMP. I highly doubt I'll get any MD looks if I don't complete one.. so I'm going to save my application fees for when I kill an SMP. Very interesting. Sorry, off topic but I find this very interesting. I guess in relation to OP, that would mean that your school list probably need a major revision.

Yes, DO schools really mean it when they say they have a grade screen--they don't care if those grades are from 10 years ago, don't care if you have a ton of post-bacc credits, don't care if you did another graduate degree. Anything below their screen and your app gets dumped. Save your money next time!