To those that are adcoms...how do I improve my application?

[Nedsson]

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So, I'm a nontraditional premed who applied late this cycle. Applied to a range of both allopathic and osteopathic schools in early October (when my MCAT score came back), but haven't really heard anything back (I do have one osteopathic II for the end of January). I figured I was a long shot this cycle, but decided to go for it anyway. Given that I probably need a plan B, I was hoping some of the excellent sdn adcom members could read my specifics and offer some advice on how to improve for the next cycle.

So, when I was a freshman at the flagship school in my state I lost my father in an accident. After that, I worked full-time to help support my family and siblings. I took classes some terms, others not for a few years. When I did, often I didn't put in much effort, something else always seemed more important. I left school for a few years...and I grew up. Found myself wanting to do something fulfilling, so I got a job working as an EMT in an Emergency Department. Loved learning every day, decided to go to nursing school. Realized after a year in the ICU that I actually wanted to be a physician, managing the care of patients in the hospital. Started back with advanced science classes after that, determined to continue the academic excellence I'd rediscovered in nursing school. So, here's my stats now.
3.35 cGPA, but in my last 120 hours I had a 3.95
3.93 sGPA
522 MCAT
one year microbiology research
6 years full-time clinical hours (2 EMT, 4+ ICU Registered Nurse)

So, here's my conundrum...I'm not sure how I can improve as a reapplicant. My cGPA is low, but between my nursing degree and my baccalaureate degree I've got 200+ hours. So my cGPA is pretty stratified. I really don't want to do a SMP, because I'm already a decade older than most applicants. Simultaneously, I don't see how more clinical exposure would help, because after 6 years full-time in the hospital I figure I'd be on the high end of the applicant pool in terms of clinical exposure anyway. I am volunteering now that the MCAT is off my plate (no plans to retake, I was in the 99% and don't think I could improve much) and doing some formal physician shadowing (although MD's that I worked with in the ICU already wrote excellent letters for me this cycle). Given that some rejections this term may be because of my late application (felt I had to go for it after the MCAT score), can I reapply next cycle or do I need something more significant to demonstrate to adcoms that I'm a better applicant the 2nd time around?

 

[de Ribas]

So, I'm a nontraditional premed who applied late this cycle. Applied to a range of both allopathic and osteopathic schools in early October (when my MCAT score came back), but haven't really heard anything back (I do have one osteopathic II for the end of January). I figured I was a long shot this cycle, but decided to go for it anyway. Given that I probably need a plan B, I was hoping some of the excellent sdn adcom members could read my specifics and offer some advice on how to improve for the next cycle.

So, when I was a freshman at the flagship school in my state I lost my father in an accident. After that, I worked full-time to help support my family and siblings. I took classes some terms, others not for a few years. When I did, often I didn't put in much effort, something else always seemed more important. I left school for a few years...and I grew up. Found myself wanting to do something fulfilling, so I got a job working as an EMT in an Emergency Department. Loved learning every day, decided to go to nursing school. Realized after a year in the ICU that I actually wanted to be a physician, managing the care of patients in the hospital. Started back with advanced science classes after that, determined to continue the academic excellence I'd rediscovered in nursing school. So, here's my stats now.
3.35 cGPA, but in my last 120 hours I had a 3.95
3.93 sGPA
522 MCAT
one year microbiology research
6 years full-time clinical hours (2 EMT, 4+ ICU Registered Nurse)

So, here's my conundrum...I'm not sure how I can improve as a reapplicant. My cGPA is low, but between my nursing degree and my baccalaureate degree I've got 200+ hours. So my cGPA is pretty stratified. I really don't want to do a SMP, because I'm already a decade older than most applicants. Simultaneously, I don't see how more clinical exposure would help, because after 6 years full-time in the hospital I figure I'd be on the high end of the applicant pool in terms of clinical exposure anyway. I am volunteering now that the MCAT is off my plate (no plans to retake, I was in the 99% and don't think I could improve much) and doing some formal physician shadowing (although MD's that I worked with in the ICU already wrote excellent letters for me this cycle). Given that some rejections this term may be because of my late application (felt I had to go for it after the MCAT score), can I reapply next cycle or do I need something more significant to demonstrate to adcoms that I'm a better applicant the 2nd time around?

I am not ADCOM, but your stats are good for both MD and DO schools. MD schools, look at your in state school

You probably didn't get much love from MD schools because you applied late. How many DO schools did you apply?

You should have received more invites from DO schools base on stats.

Do you have any non clinical volunteering?

 

[libertyyne]

I am not an adcom. However, you should apply early next year. Your state schools should look very favorably upon your candidacy. Your cardinal sin this cycle was applying late. I would not put yourself out of contention for DO schools however, since you are probably going to be a catch for them, and their cycle usually goes on to later in the year.

 

[LizzyM]

I generally agree with @gonnif about the benefit of skipping a cycle between applications but in this case, I don't believe that is necessary. You were hasty and are now facing the possibility of getting into one DO school and hoping that you could do better in a subsequent cycle. Don't do that! If you get even one offer, take it and run.

Some schools will be making interview invitations well into December and even later. You may be one of those late invites because your application may very well be the last one read this cycle. I do believe that your sGPA and MCAT will cause your application to rise to the top and anyone looking at your age and academic history will see that you had a slow start academically when you were not gunning for medical school and they may value your maturity and experience over your GPA. (All the rest of you grasshoppers out there who believe there is great hope for you because someone with a 3.35 GPA got into medical school, this is the sort of applicant who manages that feat.)

Take some of your free time to serve your community in a way that is meaningful to you... mentoring youth, guiding refugees, serving in a domestic violence safe house, or any way that you can give 2 hours/wk. Also don't neglect yourself. Find time to decompress and relax and have fun. Adcoms are genuinely interested in knowing what you do for fun or how you manage to decompress after a stressful shift.

 

[Nedsson]

I am not ADCOM, but your stats are good for both MD and DO schools. MD schools, look at your in state school

You probably didn't get much love from MD schools because you applied late. How many DO schools did you apply?

You should have received more invites from DO schools base on stats.

Do you have any non clinical volunteering?

I applied to 5 osteopathic schools. No nonclinical volunteering to speak of (will start on that, LizzyM also made that recommendation)
Thanks so much for your input

 

[libertyyne]

I applied to 5 osteopathic schools. No nonclinical volunteering to speak of (will start on that, LizzyM also made that recommendation)
Thanks so much for your input

Honestly, you are probably getting yield protected at some of these places with that MCAT.

 

[Nedsson]

I generally agree with @gonnif about the benefit of skipping a cycle between applications but in this case, I don't believe that is necessary. You were hasty and are now facing the possibility of getting into one DO school and hoping that you could do better in a subsequent cycle. Don't do that! If you get even one offer, take it and run.

Some schools will be making interview invitations well into December and even later. You may be one of those late invites because your application may very well be the last one read this cycle. I do believe that your sGPA and MCAT will cause your application to rise to the top and anyone looking at your age and academic history will see that you had a slow start academically when you were not gunning for medical school and they may value your maturity and experience over your GPA. (All the rest of you grasshoppers out there who believe there is great hope for you because someone with a 3.35 GPA got into medical school, this is the sort of applicant who manages that feat.)

Take some of your free time to serve your community in a way that is meaningful to you... mentoring youth, guiding refugees, serving in a domestic violence safe house, or any way that you can give 2 hours/wk. Also don't neglect yourself. Find time to decompress and relax and have fun. Adcoms are genuinely interested in knowing what you do for fun or how you manage to decompress after a stressful shift.

@LizzyM , Thanks so much for your time and advice. In truth, it was you or @Goro that I most hoped to hear from. I'll definitely follow through on some nonclinical community service, and based on what I've heard from all those that responded, plan on applying early next cycle if I don't get accepted this time.Thanks once again!

 

[Goro]

What schools have you applied to this cycle???

How many hours clinical ECs?

How many hours non-clinical service to others?

Any research?

So, I'm a nontraditional premed who applied late this cycle. Applied to a range of both allopathic and osteopathic schools in early October (when my MCAT score came back), but haven't really heard anything back (I do have one osteopathic II for the end of January). I figured I was a long shot this cycle, but decided to go for it anyway. Given that I probably need a plan B, I was hoping some of the excellent sdn adcom members could read my specifics and offer some advice on how to improve for the next cycle.

So, when I was a freshman at the flagship school in my state I lost my father in an accident. After that, I worked full-time to help support my family and siblings. I took classes some terms, others not for a few years. When I did, often I didn't put in much effort, something else always seemed more important. I left school for a few years...and I grew up. Found myself wanting to do something fulfilling, so I got a job working as an EMT in an Emergency Department. Loved learning every day, decided to go to nursing school. Realized after a year in the ICU that I actually wanted to be a physician, managing the care of patients in the hospital. Started back with advanced science classes after that, determined to continue the academic excellence I'd rediscovered in nursing school. So, here's my stats now.
3.35 cGPA, but in my last 120 hours I had a 3.95
3.93 sGPA
522 MCAT
one year microbiology research
6 years full-time clinical hours (2 EMT, 4+ ICU Registered Nurse)

So, here's my conundrum...I'm not sure how I can improve as a reapplicant. My cGPA is low, but between my nursing degree and my baccalaureate degree I've got 200+ hours. So my cGPA is pretty stratified. I really don't want to do a SMP, because I'm already a decade older than most applicants. Simultaneously, I don't see how more clinical exposure would help, because after 6 years full-time in the hospital I figure I'd be on the high end of the applicant pool in terms of clinical exposure anyway. I am volunteering now that the MCAT is off my plate (no plans to retake, I was in the 99% and don't think I could improve much) and doing some formal physician shadowing (although MD's that I worked with in the ICU already wrote excellent letters for me this cycle). Given that some rejections this term may be because of my late application (felt I had to go for it after the MCAT score), can I reapply next cycle or do I need something more significant to demonstrate to adcoms that I'm a better applicant the 2nd time around?

 

[Nedsson]

Honestly, you are probably getting yield protected at some of these places with that MCAT.

So sorry, could you explain "yield protected". I'm not familiar with that term.

 

[libertyyne]

So sorry, could you explain "yield protected". I'm not familiar with that term.

Schools dont want to interview applicants with applications that usually matriculate to schools with higher gpa / mcat averages. even with poor cgpa you have a LizzyM of 73~, this is not even taking into account your Upward GPA trend and last few semesters of ~4.0.

 

[Nedsson]

Schools dont want to interview applicants with applications that usually matriculate to schools with higher gpa / mcat averages. even with poor cgpa you have a LizzyM of 73~, this is not even taking into account your Upward GPA trend and last few semesters of ~4.0.

Whoa, really? @LizzyM is this a thing? If so, is it something I could address with a letter of interest to specific schools?

 

[djtallahassee]

Schools dont want to interview applicants with applications that usually matriculate to schools with higher gpa / mcat averages. even with poor cgpa you have a LizzyM of 73~, this is not even taking into account your Upward GPA trend and last few semesters of ~4.0.

Also the excuse we tell ourselves when we don't get an II immediately from a school with lower averages than our stats.

 

[libertyyne]

Also the excuse we tell ourselves when we don't get an II immediately from a school with lower averages than our stats.

admission averages in terms of sgpa gpa and mcat are pretty stable for most schools and probably fluctuate within a small margin yearly. Those averages wouldn't stay stable if schools routinely did not admit applicants within their typical ranges. There are obvious exceptions for mission based schools and schools that look for certain things in applicants, but the yield protection is real, stay woke.

 

[Nedsson]

What schools have you applied to this cycle???

How many hours clinical ECs?

How many hours non-clinical service to others?

Any research?

What schools have you applied to this cycle???

How many hours clinical ECs?

How many hours non-clinical service to others?

Any research?

1. 15 Total Schools (Most selected by geographical region or MSAR characteristics)
Emory (Cause hey, a boy can dream)
Medical College of Georgia
Mercer SOM (Ironically, I thought this school the best fit as I'm dedicated to a primary care career and in-state but sadly, no II)
Morehouse
PCOM-GA (Devastated not to have an II from them, almost literally in my back yard)
University of West Michigan (Got a lot of family in Michigan)
Oakland William Beaumont SOM
Central Michigan
Michigan State SOM (osteopathic)
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine
VT-Carillon
VCOM
West Virginia (osteopathic)
U of South Carolina Greenville (MSAR based, plus its in my region)
Nova Southeastern SOM

2. Clinical Hours
Counted 2 years full time EMT
Counted 4 years full time ICU RN
Total was just over 11,000 hours of patient contact.

I have started some formal shadowing as well as pursuing clinical volunteering, both since submitting amcas.

3. No nonclinical community service. Per LizzyM's excellent advice, definitely going to start.

4. I got transcript credit for 2 semesters worth of academic research in microbiology. I was mostly a grunt (doing a lot of cell culture, PCR, and dna e-) but got to learn and contribute thoughts in meetings by the end. Was not an author for publication, but still learned a lot and listed it as one of my most meaningful experiences in AMCAS.

 

[Goro]

I think your chances are good at:
Michigan State SOM (osteopathic)
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine
VCOM
West Virginia (osteopathic)
Nova Southeastern SOM
PCOM-GA (Devastated not to have an II from them, almost literally in my back yard)
Medical College of Georgia
Mercer SOM (Ironically, I thought this school the best fit as I'm dedicated to a primary care career and in-state but sadly, no II)
Oakland William Beaumont SOM


The rest of these were donations. The following schools should have been on your list:
The Philly Triplets
Gtown
GWU
Loyola
Hofstra
Wake
EVMS
Tulane
Case
Keck
Mayo
Pitt
Duke
Hofstra
Albany
NYMC
BU

Morehouse
University of West Michigan (Got a lot of family in Michigan)
Central Michigan
VT-Carillon
U of South Carolina Greenville (MSAR based, plus its in my region)

 

[Nedsson]

Also the excuse we tell ourselves when we don't get an II immediately from a school with lower averages than our stats.

Congrats on your acceptances!

 

[Nedsson]

I think your chances are good at:
Michigan State SOM (osteopathic)
Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine
VCOM
West Virginia (osteopathic)
Nova Southeastern SOM
PCOM-GA (Devastated not to have an II from them, almost literally in my back yard)
Medical College of Georgia
Mercer SOM (Ironically, I thought this school the best fit as I'm dedicated to a primary care career and in-state but sadly, no II)
Oakland William Beaumont SOM


The rest of these were donations. The following schools should have been on your list:
The Philly Triplets
Gtown
GWU
Loyola
Hofstra
Wake
EVMS
Tulane
Case
Keck
Mayo
Pitt
Duke
Hofstra
Albany
NYMC
BU

Morehouse
University of West Michigan (Got a lot of family in Michigan)
Central Michigan
VT-Carillon
U of South Carolina Greenville (MSAR based, plus its in my region)

The ones in red were poor choices to apply to then? Also, Duke, Keck, and Mayo Clinic...flabbergasted to think I'd have any chance there! Thanks so much, though @Goro . If I have to apply again I'll put a lot of your advice to good use. In general, do you concur more with LizzyM that I don't need to wait out a cycle and should just reapply early if I don't get an acceptance this time?

 

[Nedsson]

Rule 1: Take a Breath

From your brief description, how you can improve your application is not making last minute decisions and applying late knowing its a long shot but submitting anyway thus making yourself a reapplicant; this was a serious error in judgement. With a probable rush to get your AMCAS and secondaries out, they may not have been as highly polished as they need be, even more so with your mixed background.

1) Stop focusing a single GPA, You have sufficient grade trends to show your academic ability as well as the MCAT
2) Clinical Exposure or Volunteering in a different setting than the hospital maybe helpful but not vital
3) Letter from your doc in ICU may be helpful as a nontrad but make sure you have formal LORs from science professors
4) Assume your applications were rushed and need to be entirely rewritten and starting now is not too soon.
5) You age has nothing to do in this process. Is your goal to be a doctor or to get into medical school by a certain age? go take a freezing cold shower and then slap your self in front of the mirror until the feeling is gone
5) Most schools say that biggest mistake of reapplicants is applying again too soon. Several schools have webpages specifically for reapplicants and a attached in a uide book by Admissions Dean on OHSU for reapplicants


Many medical schools offer specific pages of advice for reapplicants, something I find few students look into. This would be true whether or not you are a specific reapplicant to that school. Below are links to a few and please note most say the most common mistake among reapplicants is applying again too soon

Should I do a Masters in my gap year / WAMC / advice please

University of Miami Miller School of Medicine
Reapplicants - Miller School of Medicine Admissions
Roughly 20% of the students who apply to the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine in any given year are reapplicants. Data that we have collected indicate they have a lower acceptance rate than do first time applicants

University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Heath
http://www.med.wisc.edu/education/md/admissions/reapplying/31716
(emphasis in the original)
There should be significant improvements in your application before reapplying. This might mean not reapplying the very next year. The most common error made by reapplicants is that they submit their next application too soon.

The Ohio State University College of Medicine
The Ohio State University College of Medicine - Tips & Advice
To maximize the chances of giving off this perception, you must allow enough time before reapplying. This will undoubtedly be the hardest part of the process, but be patient; if you rush it, you may join the ranks of those who are applying for a third time.

University of Minnesota Medical School
Re-Applicant
Though you can submit a second application immediately after your first application, you may want to consider waiting a year if you feel you need more experiences that help you demonstrate the essential and desired qualities of an ideal medical student.

University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Reapplicants — admit
Our Ideal Candidate — admit

Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine
http://medicine.vtc.vt.edu/admissions/re-applicants/

LSU Health Shreveport
Re-Applicants

University of Missouri
http://medicine.missouri.edu/admissions/nontraditional.html

East Carolina University, Brody School of Medicine
whatif

Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine (UNTHSC)
https://www.unthsc.edu/texas-colleg...ants-home/common-mistakes-made-by-applicants/

Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
http://www.com.msu.edu/Admissions/Guidelines_For_Success/Reapplication.htm

Wow! Thanks so much for your thorough response @gonnif . You really helped remind me that its all about the end goal. So, in the likely event that I don't get in this cycle, I'll work to make myself a more complete applicant. Based off LizzyM's response as well as other posters, that could be as early as the next cycle. I'll read a lot about what my essays (primary and secondary) should look like and start redrafting them now (great suggestion, tyvm). I'd considered professional admission help already, which I think I'm now almost certain to utilize for the next cycle. I'll be sure to apply more broadly as well, per @Goro 's excellent recommendations.

 

[Goro]

The ones in red were poor choices to apply to then? Also, Duke, Keck, and Mayo Clinic...flabbergasted to think I'd have any chance there! Thanks so much, though @Goro . If I have to apply again I'll put a lot of your advice to good use. In general, do you concur more with LizzyM that I don't need to wait out a cycle and should just reapply early if I don't get an acceptance this time?

Some schools reward reinvention, and some do not.

 

[LizzyM]

Until you have an offer, of course you want to attend any school on your list and if you submitted an application, a school assumes you want to attend. Sending a letter of interest really doesn't help much.

Some schools will not waste an interview slot on someone who is likely to attend elsewhere (e.g. if someone has a 3.98/522 West Virginia might assume that if push comes to shove, the applicant would choose Hopkins or Duke over WV). Sort of like not chasing after the prom queen if she is out of your league.

 

[DBC03]

Have you thought of USF? They accept a fair number of people from out of state and they really like high MCATs. It might be worth throwing in an application now.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Robin-jay]

Any institutional actions, misdemeanors, felonies, suspended licenses?

Even with non-violent institutional actions and misdemeanors, i have no idea how you wouldn't be accepted to be honest.

I know people who had less than 30th percentile on the MCAT go to DO, and I know someone who went to Harvard by only shadowing a few hours with no research or no clinical experience.

I don't understand this process.

 

[Nedsson]

I generally agree with @gonnif about the benefit of skipping a cycle between applications but in this case, I don't believe that is necessary. You were hasty and are now facing the possibility of getting into one DO school and hoping that you could do better in a subsequent cycle. Don't do that! If you get even one offer, take it and run.

Some schools will be making interview invitations well into December and even later. You may be one of those late invites because your application may very well be the last one read this cycle. I do believe that your sGPA and MCAT will cause your application to rise to the top and anyone looking at your age and academic history will see that you had a slow start academically when you were not gunning for medical school and they may value your maturity and experience over your GPA. (All the rest of you grasshoppers out there who believe there is great hope for you because someone with a 3.35 GPA got into medical school, this is the sort of applicant who manages that feat.)

Take some of your free time to serve your community in a way that is meaningful to you... mentoring youth, guiding refugees, serving in a domestic violence safe house, or any way that you can give 2 hours/wk. Also don't neglect yourself. Find time to decompress and relax and have fun. Adcoms are genuinely interested in knowing what you do for fun or how you manage to decompress after a stressful shift.

@LizzyM , @Goro, Thanks so much for your advice, especially on having patience that my late application might eventually float to the top. This past weekend, I got interview invites to two allopathic programs, including my #1 choice school, the public institution in my state. I'm sure neither have many slots left, but at least it's a window of opportunity! Thanks again for all you do to help people on sdn!

 

[Nedsson]

Another heartfelt thank you to the all the individuals who contributed their advice and/or encouragement, especially @LizzyM @gonnif and @Goro . LizzyM's excellent advice about having patience proved correct, with a final tally of 8 II. Goro proved prescient as well, mostly predicting correctly the schools that I'd hear from. Most importantly, over a whirlwind couple weeks, I've recently been accepted to multiple schools, including one of my top choices in here in my home state.

Thank you all!

 

[LizzyM]

Another heartfelt thank you to the all the individuals who contributed their advice and/or encouragement, especially @LizzyM @gonnif and @Goro . LizzyM's excellent advice about having patience proved correct, with a final tally of 8 II. Goro proved prescient as well, mostly predicting correctly the schools that I'd hear from. Most importantly, over a whirlwind couple weeks, I've recently been accepted to multiple schools, including one of my top choices in here in my home state.

Thank you all!

 

[Goro]

Another heartfelt thank you to the all the individuals who contributed their advice and/or encouragement, especially @LizzyM @gonnif and @Goro . LizzyM's excellent advice about having patience proved correct, with a final tally of 8 II. Goro proved prescient as well, mostly predicting correctly the schools that I'd hear from. Most importantly, over a whirlwind couple weeks, I've recently been accepted to multiple schools, including one of my top choices in here in my home state.

Thank you all!

👍👍👍👍😍😍😍

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

Well done!!

 

[mellie0]

Congrats, OP! Meanwhile, I’m still laughing at this...

go take a freezing cold shower and then slap your self in front of the mirror until the feeling is gone