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This term seems to get thrown around a lot, but after a bit of digging I haven't been able to find a real definition. Someone step up and floss that knowledge, baby!
Today's Query: Ranked to Match?
- Thread starter welovelamarodom
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Ranked to match basically means you are high enough on a program's match list that based on how historically deep they tend to go in their list you ought to match. Bear in mind that if a program becomes particularly popular they may not have to go below the number of slots, so if there are only 10 slots, then being ranked #11 might theoretically mean you won't match, even if based on history you would be ranked to match. At any rate this is pretty moot because very very few programs are going to tell you much of anything. It is actually pretty unusual for a program in the allo match to tell you where they are going to match you, and is a match violation for you to push them to tell you (or vice versa).
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Ranked to match means that you are ranked within the number of spots they have available in the Match. So if they have 10 spots, you are ranked 1-10.
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Again, they may call it ranked to match if they historically end up filling the 10th spot with the 25th person on their list and they have ranked you #23.
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I think you misread what he wrote, as he is defining ranked to match differently than you are.
I also think of "ranked to match" to mean if I rank them #1, then I will be going there b/c I am ranked within the number of spots they have available. ie. I am ranked 5 and there are 10 spots.
Some people interpret "ranked to match" as you have described based on the historical position that the program goes down to on their rank list.
In either case, you never know if they are telling you the truth so it doesn't really matter. It might be better to call the latter situation "projected to match."
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No, I got that. I am suggesting that ranked to match doesn't mean the same thing to a lot of programs than what he is describing.
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I don't know...to me "ranked to match" means ranked within the actual number of spots available at that program.
Granted, the PD might be playing word games. But I think the common understanding of "ranked to match" is that someone is ranked where they are CERTAIN to match at that program if they rank it #1, not where they will PROBABLY match based on past experience.
Granted, the PD might be playing word games. But I think the common understanding of "ranked to match" is that someone is ranked where they are CERTAIN to match at that program if they rank it #1, not where they will PROBABLY match based on past experience.
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One person's assumed "common understanding" may not be another's. The phrase is vague enough to encompass either of these interpretations.
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So far it is 3 people's common understanding. I'm not sure how you know lots of programs think it means what you say it does. It certainly doesn't mean that to my PD because I asked him.
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Make that 4!
We had a meeting at my school about ranking, which included experiences from our Dean of Student Affairs (also a residency PD), plus PDs for Ophtho, Surgery, and Radiology. All of them agreed that "ranked to match" means you are in the top # of positions that they have available... that is 1-10 of 10 spots.
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I've heard it used otherwise. You are welcome to believe whatever you want, but should realize there is a component of vagueness there.
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But then we always here the story about how people who, after being tolled they are ranked to match, rank them first and don't match there.
It either means
A) The PD is lying (not unlikely)
B) The PD is referring to Law2Doc's explanation: they are ranked #18 when the program traditionally go downs to #25+, but this year they fill when they get to #13.
It either means
A) The PD is lying (not unlikely)
B) The PD is referring to Law2Doc's explanation: they are ranked #18 when the program traditionally go downs to #25+, but this year they fill when they get to #13.
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Or C, the program made a mistake, and accidentally left them off the rank list. I'm sure it happens, on rare occasions.
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Yep! I know someone that this happened to with this year's Peds Neuro match. Afterward they called the #1 PD to see what happened and they found the mistake. He was switched from his #2 into his #1.
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I find that very hard to believe. You are contractually obligated to whichever program you match into, and I doubt his #2 was okay with having to resort to the scramble due to an error not of their doing. You can't get a do-over just because a program left you ff the list -- the way the match system works other people will be impacted. The program that he matched into will have lost their shot at whomever was next on their rank order list.
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The fact that, as PSJ points out, people have been ranked to match and not matched, and the fact that some people have reported other interpretations suggests there is, in fact some vagueness in the term.
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I'm sure there is more to the story than my paraphrasing. But somehow it didn't register correctly on their end. Early on match day he was going to his #2 and literally the next day was in his #1. I won't belabor this point though since it wasn't my own personal story.
I don't think it's vagueness... I think they lied. You are only technically ranked to match if you are in 1-6 of their 6 spots.
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...by your definition of the term. There is no agreed upon, official definition of the term. It is not a term that the NRMP recognizes and enforces proper use of.
The term ranked to match carries no additional meaning than "We'd love to have you at our program" or "You are shoe in to match here". There is NO consensus about what they mean to program directors. And the fact that a program director is by no means obligated to be truthful means we should stop assessing over these things.
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this
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Peds Neuro is done through SF Match, which does allow corrections like that, in rare cases and only by the programs, not the applicants. It's a little under-the-table, IMHO, but it does happen.
So MedObsession is likely not lying or misinformed.
What was the #1 program? One of my top few programs (applying in peds) is marked as a match violator; the explanation says that they 'offered a position outside the 2008 Main Residency Match to a senior student of a U.S. allopathic school who matched to Child Neurology as part of the San Francisco Match.' Wonder if it's part of the same story...maybe it really did happen! It would make it even a little more surprising, as not only was their #2 willing to let them out of their match, but their #1 was willing to take on being listed as a match violator through 2010.
It has been driving me a little bit crazy, because even though it's a well respected, strong program, I noticed no very worrisome problems during my interview day, and I can't imagine how something like this would affect my time there as a resident, it's hard to ignore that my rank list on nrmp quite literally has a little red flag near the top!
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Thank you for posting this. I didn't think my friend would lie to me, but didn't feel like looking things up to defend myself against Law2Doc.
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University of Tennessee was the program.
There's one program on my list with a red flag because they asked people to tell them if they were interested after interview day. The PD was very open about it on our interview day, before I even knew what a match violation was!
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law2doc
and peepshow are right on this one I think.
The problem is there is nothing binding about a program telling you you are "ranked to match". I agree with you in theory that if they have 6 spots they should only tell 6 people (or less than 6) this, but I guarantee you there are PD's out there telling 15 people this, based on the fact that they had to go to #16 on their list last year to fill. This may not technically be truthful as far as you the applicant are concerned, but the fact is that phrase means whatever the PD thinks is reasonable...not what you guys think it should mean. In general, do not believe anything anyone tells you during the Match process, and just rank the place YOU prefer as #1. There are probably quite a few programs telling folks the truth (i.e. telling an applicant ranked #2 that he's "ranked to match" at their ortho program that has 4 spots) but you can't guarantee that.
and peepshow are right on this one I think.
The problem is there is nothing binding about a program telling you you are "ranked to match". I agree with you in theory that if they have 6 spots they should only tell 6 people (or less than 6) this, but I guarantee you there are PD's out there telling 15 people this, based on the fact that they had to go to #16 on their list last year to fill. This may not technically be truthful as far as you the applicant are concerned, but the fact is that phrase means whatever the PD thinks is reasonable...not what you guys think it should mean. In general, do not believe anything anyone tells you during the Match process, and just rank the place YOU prefer as #1. There are probably quite a few programs telling folks the truth (i.e. telling an applicant ranked #2 that he's "ranked to match" at their ortho program that has 4 spots) but you can't guarantee that.
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I don't think anyone is disputing that this is what some PD's mean. But we're discussing the common understanding of the term, which most people are saying, and have been told by those who know better than us, is "you're ranked within the number of slots we have".
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Ok, since we have to agree to disagree what the "common understanding" of the phrase is (my argument is "there isn't one" in case anyone's keeping score at home). That's fine.
But what even discuss it at all? If we take what most people take "ranked to match" to mean. Again I come back to the following points.
1. There is no obligation for a PD to be truthful.
2. You should rank based on what programs you want to attend, not what programs tell you.
Why does it matter what the PD says? If the program you're receiving the correspondence from is your #1 choice, you're still going to leave it #1. If it's your #2 or #5 or #20, why move it up? You obviously preferred at least one other program more (hence why its not #1) and just the fact that you're "ranked to match" at your #2 or #5 or #20 doesn't matter one iota. If you fail to match at your first rank or ranks 1 through 4 or ranks 1 19, the next slot is treated (for all intents and purpose) as a new #1. So there's no way reason to treat a program you know you are "ranked to match" at any different than if you had or hadn't heard any information from the PD.
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I agree, it shouldn't change your list. But it can be a load off your mind, if you're worried about not matching at all, and you do believe the person telling you is not the kind to say that lightly.
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Sure, but I think whether the PD is a stand-up kind of person is something you only know for sure after the fact. A lot of us would love to believe that everyone in the match behaves with integrity and stands behind their fluff. But you really only know these people based on very brief exposure, and you don't know what else they are saying to the other hundreds of people they have seen that they also want to rank their program highly. So while it might be a load off some people's minds, with respect to a lot of PDs it probably shouldn't be, and so others aren't incorrect to view all this stuff skeptically until March 19.
