Too old for dental school?

[MedSpeech]

I am 44, w/ MS in speech pathology and an MPH, working for a dental residency program considering a career change to dentistry. After years of working with dentists, community health, my own clinical (speech pathology) and health admin experience, considering a post bacc science certificate (would not be able to start til next year and probably need 2 years of courses). I do not want to leave NY so that limits my options for application, all said and done - would not be done with D school til age 50. Thoughts?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[sockit]

A family member of mine is a dentist. I think it's possible 🙂 However, remember it's a physical job. Some of the work can be affected by age-related processes, or accelerate them: arthritis (hands), back pain (8 hours a day of hunching), vision problems (bright lights), stress and related health conditions (you're right up in people's faces all the time, and they usually see you when they're in pain; bill collection & office management; competition; in your case, developing and keeping a practice [even if you buy one]). Some accommodations can help - a good chair; staying fit; hiring reliable and competent staff - here you've got an edge 🙂 I guess some of the actual labour has been lessened by technologies (compared to how my family member worked for many years), but at the end of the day, you're still hunching over people who are in pain, day in, day out. It's not a job I'd want to do very late in life. It'd be a tough spot to have to work deep into typical retirement age while facing some of those health issues. If you're in good shape (no personal or family history of MSK issues), and could afford to work for just 10-15 years, sure.

Edit: so I asked my relative what they thought about someone starting to practice at 50. They were less than optimistic about it (putting it mildly), but for different reasons than the ones that came to me: they said the overhead is unreal, and that to have a good bet of making back what's required to keep the practice going takes experience and judgement, and there's not a lot of (financial) margin for error with just ten years to work. Their recommendation was to think about becoming a hygienist instead (where we are, hygienists have some independent scope of practice).

 

[edgerock24]

Not at all too old. Go nuts. Don't let negative losers persuade you. If you want to be a dentist, then do it. Bottom line.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

At your age, it will be very important that you keep your loan burden down as much as possible, if you end up going through with it. Graduating at 54 doesn't give you a ton of time to recoup your losses and save for retirement. I can't tell you if you should or shouldn't go, but you probably should be prepared to take a financial loss long term.

 

[Ferneezy]

I am 44, w/ MS in speech pathology and an MPH, working for a dental residency program considering a career change to dentistry. After years of working with dentists, community health, my own clinical (speech pathology) and health admin experience, considering a post bacc science certificate (would not be able to start til next year and probably need 2 years of courses). I do not want to leave NY so that limits my options for application, all said and done - would not be done with D school til age 50. Thoughts?

ten years your junior and starting dental school in six months. i would urge you to think very, very thoroughly about the financials of your prospective path. that said, in light of your preferences, you should only apply to buffalo and stony brook. also be mindful that to practice dentistry in the state of new york you will be required to have completed a residency (an AEGD or GPR are one year programs that fit the bill for the least amount of time investment). assuming everything goes in lock-step, you won't be actually practicing dentistry until you're 51...potentially with a hundred thousand or two hanging over your head.

is this something you'll be able to weather?

 

[sockit]

.

 

[MedSpeech]

ten years your junior and starting dental school in six months. i would urge you to think very, very thoroughly about the financials of your prospective path. that said, in light of your preferences, you should only apply to buffalo and stony brook. also be mindful that to practice dentistry in the state of new york you will be required to have completed a residency (an AEGD or GPR are one year programs that fit the bill for the least amount of time investment). assuming everything goes in lock-step, you won't be actually practicing dentistry until you're 51...potentially with a hundred thousand or two hanging over your head.

is this something you'll be able to weather?

Understood - I know well all about post doc residency because I work for a large post doc residency program. I am also familiar with the debt load, from our incoming residents (we have more than 200) Ours pay salary since they are hospital sponsored : ) The debt potential is a major consideration, and why I am hesitating and leaning toward NOT doing it, and working in the field other ways, as I am now.

 

[MedSpeech]

A family member of mine is a dentist. I think it's possible 🙂 However, remember it's a physical job. Some of the work can be affected by age-related processes, or accelerate them: arthritis (hands), back pain (8 hours a day of hunching), vision problems (bright lights), stress and related health conditions (you're right up in people's faces all the time, and they usually see you when they're in pain; bill collection & office management; competition; in your case, developing and keeping a practice [even if you buy one]). Some accommodations can help - a good chair; staying fit; hiring reliable and competent staff - here you've got an edge 🙂 I guess some of the actual labour has been lessened by technologies (compared to how my family member worked for many years), but at the end of the day, you're still hunching over people who are in pain, day in, day out. It's not a job I'd want to do very late in life. It'd be a tough spot to have to work deep into typical retirement age while facing some of those health issues. If you're in good shape (no personal or family history of MSK issues), and could afford to work for just 10-15 years, sure.

Edit: so I asked my relative what they thought about someone starting to practice at 50. They were less than optimistic about it (putting it mildly), but for different reasons than the ones that came to me: they said the overhead is unreal, and that to have a good bet of making back what's required to keep the practice going takes experience and judgement, and there's not a lot of (financial) margin for error with just ten years to work. Their recommendation was to think about becoming a hygienist instead (where we are, hygienists have some independent scope of practice).

Not looking at private practice at all - but community health center, hospital etc

 

[Plecopotamus]

Their recommendation was to think about becoming a hygienist instead (where we are, hygienists have some independent scope of practice).

Becoming a hygienist:
1) is a terrible response to someone interested in being a dentist, because the scope of practice is not at all similar, & frankly I think it's kind of insulting to an intelligent person who has been around dentistry for enough of his/her career to be familiar with how these paths are different and has the maturity to think through the differences.

2) is a ridiculous suggestion coming from someone who thought dentistry was too hard on the body -- dental hygienists have extremely high rates of pain complaints in the hand, wrist, and neck, very high rates of occupationally related disability, and often have to leave practice at a younger age due to these problems. I believe the incidence in hygienists is higher than in dentists, but I'm too lazy to look for the data right now.

. . . considering a post bacc science certificate (would not be able to start til next year and probably need 2 years of courses). I do not want to leave NY so . . .

You do not need to do a formal postbacc program where you get a "certificate" for completion. If you're in NY I'm concerned you're looking at some of the pricey NYC schools that give these certificates -- as someone who has attended one of those programs, I can say the tuition isn't worth it & I wish I'd gone to the local public school.

I assume scholarships are too unpredictable to rely on, but is it possible in the scope of dental school admissions to get an organization to pay/reimburse your tuition? I know these things exist for medicine but no clue about for DDS. If these types of programs exist for you, since it sounds like you aren't aiming for private practice, it's possible you could really have trivial debt burden if you're willing to serve an underserved community for a few years after graduation.

 

[MedSpeech]

Yes - and thank you ! I agree with your points above about DH, and about public school. As of now for pre reqs I Am ONLY looking at CUNY schools (Hunter has one) at the moment - they have a "cert program in post bacc pre health sciences" .... but a friend who went through it told me I may not have to do it formally (get the certificate) but can pursue the required courses at CUNY schools, like Hunter, and take advantage of summer and winter sessions to make the most of my time. And yes I am absolutely looking to practice in a community health setting that often provides loan repayment but I would have to lay out the tuition and of course there is the fact that I will not be working full time for several years while completing all of this . Unfortunately I am too old for UPHS or NHSC. where 41 I believe is cutoff.

 

[Plecopotamus]

Yes - and thank you ! I agree with your points above about DH, and about public school. As of now for pre reqs I Am ONLY looking at CUNY schools (Hunter has one) at the moment - they have a "cert program in post bacc pre health sciences" .... but a friend who went through it told me I may not have to do it formally (get the certificate) but can pursue the required courses at CUNY schools, like Hunter, and take advantage of summer and winter sessions to make the most of my time. And yes I am absolutely looking to practice in a community health setting that often provides loan repayment but I would have to lay out the tuition and of course there is the fact that I will not be working full time for several years while completing all of this . Unfortunately I am too old for UPHS or NHSC. where 41 I believe is cutoff.

I had several friends who went to Hunter while I was at the overpriced piece of **** that is the postbacc program at Columbia. Several did not get a certificate because they did not need to complete that many pre-reqs at Hunter (at the time at least you had to do a certain number of them there in order to get the certificate). The only thing you would have to verify is what you are entitled to in terms of advising if you do not get the certificate. All of my buddies faired ok in the application process, but that's to MD programs (I can't imagined dental would be more picky about this). If you don't get the certificate many programs will not write "the committee letter" for MD applications (again, not sure this is relevant for DDS) -- personally, I believe that with good LORs, you're better off without that letter anyhow, because it elucidates your rank in a class comprised totally of bright/motivated people, so the difference between the people they call "bottom quartile" or "top" is relatively negligible . . . yet it can tank your app.

 

[sockit]

Becoming a hygienist:
1) is a terrible response to someone interested in being a dentist, because the scope of practice is not at all similar, & frankly I think it's kind of insulting to an intelligent person who has been around dentistry for enough of his/her career to be familiar with how these paths are different and has the maturity to think through the differences.

2) is a ridiculous suggestion coming from someone who thought dentistry was too hard on the body -- dental hygienists have extremely high rates of pain complaints in the hand, wrist, and neck, very high rates of occupationally related disability, and often have to leave practice at a younger age due to these problems. I believe the incidence in hygienists is higher than in dentists, but I'm too lazy to look for the data right now.

The occupational health issues were concerns I brought up, because I have both observed the negative health effects described and heard complaints from not only my relative but their colleagues [leaving gender out here], as they hit their late 50s and 60s. These are the sorts of things I'm taking into consideration as I work through my own decision-making process. I think it's important to take a holistic, realistic view of what's ahead.

The suggestion to consider being a hygienist was made not by me, but by my family member (25 years in solo practice; is also in touch with young dentists breaking out these days). And if you'd like to know, the context was, 'if they're hell bent on the dental field, hygiene would be easier to break into and less of a risk' as far as the business end is concerned. Since the OP is not talking about private practice (which we didn't know until the update), that changes the calculus re the economic risk. But I don't see why it's insulting to acknowledge the reality of entrepreneurial risk, which is all the greater in the short years before retirement, and to suggest an alternative. The OP is not nearly as precious as you are being, here.

(Also, the point about hygienists' scope of practice wasn't intended to be condescending. These things are regional.)

 

[Plecopotamus]

(Also, the point about hygienists' scope of practice wasn't intended to be condescending. These things are regional.)

I think it's important to consider how it looks to other people when you say something like that. Part of your perception of how it comes across is going to be affected by your age and gender and probably ethnicity. Due to my demographics, as a non-trad pre-med (now 4th year med student) I cannot tell you how many times I was told to pursue nursing instead of medicine. Good nurses are a wonderful asset to patients and physicians, but it is a very different job -- when you hear that over and over again, what is the message? That perhaps when you asked about medicine you weren't astute enough to realize there was this objectively easier/quicker path to becoming a nurse. Or that you aren't competent to be a doctor. Maybe that someone questions your insight and judgment or motivation. There are a whole bunch of potential, subtle implications, but none of them is good. I would have a different reaction if the OP had come here saying "I think I want to work in a health care field, and I'm wondering what the best path is for my age in terms of reaching an autonomous level of practice, etc" rather than "is it realistic for me to become a dentist?". I could much more easily have become a nurse, or a dental hygienist, or a nurse anesthetist, etc., but I'd be on the other end of my certification/degrees quicker yet not having satisfied the goals/motivations that being a doctor (in this case dentist) will fulfill -- for someone already in a successful career, that's sort of like putting a lot of effort walking in a big circle end ending right back where you started.

I'm sure you didn't mean to be condescending, and I don't want to bite anybody's head off over this, but it's a really common response that gets very exhausting and belittling when you're repeatedly on the receiving end (and each person thinks it's only him/her saying it, so what's the big deal).

 

[sockit]

Edited my previous post, which I realize you may have seen, because while I don't mind talking about my life, I'm a little annoyed to have let myself get drawn into this kind of dialogue. Most people on this subforum are dealing with stigma, making sacrifices, having to justify themselves to themselves and the world. I'm one of them, taking a long shot too. Yes, agree, it's freaking hard. I shared my observations (fwtw, coming from not a dentist, but the offspring of dentists) and those of a dentist, in good faith, to support decision making, not to kill dreams.

This thread: not about medicine, or your choices, or mine.

Question was: is 50 (maybe 51) too old to practice dentistry. Issues: finances, covered; health risks related to working as a dentist at that age, covered. Also covered, and rejected by non-OP: alternate suggestion with less lead time that sure, I guess, considered against certain criteria, might mean "being right back where you started", except it would offer, to the person broadly attracted to tooth fixing, at least some overlap with basic general dentistry (even cosmetic stuff in some places, though true, I don't know about NY), and a completely different set of daily working experiences and environment to that currently enjoyed.

I am sure the OP would like to hear other things about their topic, now.

 

[lemoncurry]

The short answer is that you are not too old to start dental school.

The biggest concern, as mentioned before, would be the financial ones. Dental school is not cheap, especially in NY and you don't want to have to practice until you die to pay off your loans. The second biggest concern would be with the physical demands. Lots of back and neck pain, and expect your eyesight to take a hit as well.

Having said that, community health clinics will often offer loan repayment, and with your background in public health, I'm sure that you could "fall back" on a more administrative role if the physical demands became too much.

I would highly recommend you look into the NHSC scholarship program, possibly Indian Health, and certainly get a good idea of community dental clinics in your area and what kind of loan repayment they, the state, and the feds can offer you.

Best of luck!