"Too smart for EM"

Started by strongboy2005
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strongboy2005

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pinipig523 said:
This is what my associate PD said:

"220-240, we love that. Above 240... maybe the guy's too smart."

Take from that what you will.
Click to expand...

I wanted to make a separate thread for this because I've read this a few times on the EM forums. As a little background, I have wanted to do EM since I started med school. Last year I studied my butt off for step 1 because I want to get into EM. While other people studied 6 hours a day I was studying 9 and while some of my classmates took step 1 early to have a few weeks off for vacation, I took it on the last possible day before 3rd year started and took only a weekend break. I ONLY did this because I want so badly to get into EM.

I got the second highest score in my class. So hopefully it is clear why it really irks me to read anything saying it might be frowned upon and/or cast in a negative light. I busted my butt for that score. The thing is, you don't see this sentiment with other competitive specialties, so why do I keep reading comments like this on the EM board?
 
strongboy2005 said:
I wanted to make a separate thread for this because I've read this a few times on the EM forums. As a little background, I have wanted to do EM since I started med school. Last year I studied my butt off for step 1 because I want to get into EM. While other people studied 6 hours a day I was studying 9 and while some of my classmates took step 1 early to have a few weeks off for vacation, I took it on the last possible day before 3rd year started and took only a weekend break. I ONLY did this because I want so badly to get into EM.

I got the second highest score in my class. So hopefully it is clear why it really irks me to read anything saying it might be frowned upon and/or cast in a negative light. I busted my butt for that score. The thing is, you don't see this sentiment with other competitive specialties, so why do I keep reading comments like this on the EM board?
Click to expand...
biggeris better
 
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i got over 240 on all 3 steps, then proceeded to get the highest score on the inservice 2 out of 3 yrs. 3rd yr i was battling an injured disc and couldn't wait to get out of my chair. still got well above what i'd need to pass written boards. passed written and oral boards w/o difficulty.

don't listen to any of that nonsense - if you love the ED, your knowledge will only help you. if you're dorky though... might not fit in! haha! my friends always picked on me b/c i probably studied less than avg. the scope of EM makes having a good memory and being smart very advantageous - as long as you have the personality for it.
 
la gringa said:
i got over 240 on all 3 steps, then proceeded to get the highest score on the inservice 2 out of 3 yrs. 3rd yr i was battling an injured disc and couldn't wait to get out of my chair. still got well above what i'd need to pass written boards. passed written and oral boards w/o difficulty.

don't listen to any of that nonsense - if you love the ED, your knowledge will only help you. if you're dorky though... might not fit in! haha! my friends always picked on me b/c i probably studied less than avg. the scope of EM makes having a good memory and being smart very advantageous - as long as you have the personality for it.
Click to expand...

Similar situation. Agreed.
 
Do well in medical school, get great SLORs, be personable, and you will essentially write your ticket to whatever EM program you would like to go to....

I agree that the PD was saying that in a 'kidding' kind of way. Unfortunately we still have other specialties that think the failures of medical school go into Emergency Medicine. Traditionally, outcast type folks 'worked in the ER'. This could not be farther from the truth now; we are near the top of the scale as far as competitveness for residency. I dont think we will pass things such as Derm or Rad Onc...simply because we continue to add slots and new programs to help with the supply.. and we NEED more EM doctors. I am not certain there is a nationwide shortage of Derm.

I have heard others, and I have personally made comments such as above...in a joking way.

Good luck to you...
 
try to get into a derm in less than 2 months - it sure can feel like there's a shortage! i had to pull my "but i'm also a dr" card to get in 3 wks later... then REALLY beg and call 4 different times to see one who specializes in metal allergy testing. the 1st derm billed $215 to look at my skin briefly and burn a little actinic keratosis off my forehead. i wish i could have standed doing derm, but alas...
 
strongboy2005 said:
I wanted to make a separate thread for this because I've read this a few times on the EM forums. As a little background, I have wanted to do EM since I started med school. Last year I studied my butt off for step 1 because I want to get into EM. While other people studied 6 hours a day I was studying 9 and while some of my classmates took step 1 early to have a few weeks off for vacation, I took it on the last possible day before 3rd year started and took only a weekend break. I ONLY did this because I want so badly to get into EM.

I got the second highest score in my class. So hopefully it is clear why it really irks me to read anything saying it might be frowned upon and/or cast in a negative light. I busted my butt for that score. The thing is, you don't see this sentiment with other competitive specialties, so why do I keep reading comments like this on the EM board?
Click to expand...

My PD told me anything above 220 was solid and the higher the better. So congrats on having a good score and great future in EM.

I love how EM seems so up-and-coming...
 
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Groove said:
I did well on my steps, but I did NOT, repeat... did NOT get over 240 on either step and if you scored 99's, I will do everything in my power to prevent you from coming to my program. You obviously are way too smart for your pants mister and we need more zombie troops, not insubordinate zombies with too many questions. "I said discharge that chest pain'er soldier! That's not ST elevation, you're just holding the EKG wrong, gimme that!" If you scored over 240, do everything you can to hide it and don't draw any attention to the fact. During interview day, nod...practice grinning with that glazed over look, unlace one shoe, and say "dude" and "man" a lot. Don't use any big words. Drink at least one beer and/or pitcher during the welcome dinner. You'll def get the spot. Play it safe if you want EM. Don't act smart. Everybody knows we're just stupid EP's who drink and swear a lot.

🙄
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Won't be a problem cause I already do this quite naturally
 
I'm another EMer with very high test scores, especially the steps I studied for. I'm sure someone in my class had higher scores than I did, but I don't know who.

You sound a little bit like a gunner though, so you should probably do something besides EM. 🙂 EM tends to attract folks who would have taken a week of vacation before starting third year.

By the way, figure out how that guy beat you with only studying 6 hours a day, then do what he does and go find a hobby for those last 3 hours. 🙂
 
the guy in my class who got the highest score on step 1 studied more than i did. way more. i think he got close to 260. he went into plastics, go figure... but was widely known as a gunner and his personality uh, took getting used to. he was often "that guy" who asked questions right at the end of class, and his best buddy would argue w/ profs and was almost not allowed to graduate after multiple episodes of being a complete embarrassment to the field of medicine. but that's another story.

i was the 1st or 2nd person in my class to take step 1. i can't remember exactly what i did since that was 2003, but i think it involved a trip to see friends in philly/ny, hiking, and generally doing nothing. it was awesome.

we had to do step II and CS very early in 4th yr. that enabled me to concentrate on interviews, then get done w/ those and spend almost 6 wks in Costa Rica learning Spanish. oh, and doing all of the other completely awesome things there are to do in CR, even if you're legitimately taking 4-8 hrs of Spanish a day.
 
la gringa said:
the guy in my class who got the highest score on step 1 studied more than i did. way more. i think he got close to 260. he went into plastics, go figure... but was widely known as a gunner and his personality uh, took getting used to. he was often "that guy" who asked questions right at the end of class, and his best buddy would argue w/ profs and was almost not allowed to graduate after multiple episodes of being a complete embarrassment to the field of medicine. but that's another story.

i was the 1st or 2nd person in my class to take step 1. i can't remember exactly what i did since that was 2003, but i think it involved a trip to see friends in philly/ny, hiking, and generally doing nothing. it was awesome.

we had to do step II and CS very early in 4th yr. that enabled me to concentrate on interviews, then get done w/ those and spend almost 6 wks in Costa Rica learning Spanish. oh, and doing all of the other completely awesome things there are to do in CR, even if you're legitimately taking 4-8 hrs of Spanish a day.
Click to expand...

Did your school publish Step scores? How do you know what others scored?
 
ActiveDutyMD said:
You sound a little bit like a gunner though, so you should probably do something besides EM. 🙂 EM tends to attract folks who would have taken a week of vacation before starting third year.
Click to expand...

Gunner gets thrown around a lot. The definition is one who tears others down to build him/herself up, or uses deceptive practices to beat their classmates (e.g., hiding study materials from other classmates or purposefully teaching another classmate something factually incorrect to lower their score). The original meaning of gunner is not an individual who studies hard to do the best they can. Frankly, I was not interested in beating my classmates, only in doing well enough to get into EM.

I am not a gunner. I studied hard to do the absolute best I could and would always help classmates if they asked.

I am going into EM because it's what I want to do. People who don't know what they want to do or knew they weren't going to go into a "competitive" specialty tended to study less. That is lazy. You should always do your best, especially on a test that matters so much. There is certainly a balance in life, but the weeks leading up to step 1 is not the time to take a trip to Europe, it is the time to buckle down. I did not take time off for vacation because my school only gives us 4 weeks to study already. Many of those people who took it early actually failed and I saw at least one student pulled off rotations. I certainly did not want to be in the position of failing or doing poorly and ruining my chances at EM.

The people who should be seen in a negative light are the ones who took Step 1 the first week out of school and then failed it. That is the type of person I would not want in my residency program. I would hope that EM would see that person for what they are - lazy and unwilling to make the effort necessary to do well on a very important test.

ActiveDutyMD said:
By the way, figure out how that guy beat you with only studying 6 hours a day, then do what he does and go find a hobby for those last 3 hours. 🙂
Click to expand...
Funny that you think I should have a hobby in the last few weeks leading up to step 1.

I'm sure the guy who beat me studied at least as much as I did to get his score. The people who studied 4-6 hours a day for a week and then took step 1 are probably the same ones I keep seeing get pulled out of my rotations to retake it.
 
great...this is turning into one of those penis wagging contests....

"I scored real high and still managed to get drunk, have sex with my teachers, and learn spanish. You guys are all gunners because you do not do these things, and only scored higher then me because you studied more."
 
meowdoc said:
Relax, strongboy2005.. you must stand behind your score with an aura of chillness..
Click to expand...

Good advice. I only told one other student my score because he is a good friend and we agreed to share scores with each other. No other students on my rotations would suspect that I got a good score. I'm very laid back in person.

It can be hard to demonstrate one's personality on an internet forum. I'll admit I definitely get defensive when people automatically assume someone with a high step 1 score is a gunner.
 
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as far as step 1 scores... it got around... didn't go to a huge school so things got around. several of my friends asked me what i got and when i told them, they gave me a ballpark of what they got. all i know is that none of my good friends failed... apparently some people did but it wasn't clear if they started 3rd yr late b/c they took more time to study or if they had to retake.

all i'm sayin as far as studying and all... you have to decide how much of your life your profession will take up. you have to take time to decompress. you don't have to be AOA and get 260 on step 1 to go into EM. they want to know that you have a life and hobbies outside of medicine. i took many Saturdays in med school to go to my alma mater's football games. i was lucky that my med school had exams on Fridays about every 6 wks, so the timing was good to have an occasional full weekend off. i went to the gym very regularly. it was good for me as a person... best way to be a good doc is to take good care of yourself. trust me, as someone who has a chronic illness/recurrent injury and had to ignore it due to wanting to finish residency...

to me, studying 4-5 weeks for step 1 was PLENTY and i would have gone nuts doing it for much longer. i'm fortunate that i work fast and retain a lot of what i see/read. always have been. those are good assets for EM due to the volume and variety of patients/pathology you will see.
 
and fwiw, i'm the one in the ED talking about sports and quoting rap lyrics. i'm no dork/gunner. i'll admit to being a nerd, but not a dork!

and i don't have a penis to wag.
 
I didn't say take 4 weeks off. I said take one. You took 2 days. That's better than none.

What ever happened to 2 weeks, 2 days, and a # 2 pencil?

The reason I call you a gunner is that
#1 You know who has the highest score in your class
#2 You know you have the second highest score in the class
#3 You're now worried your score is "too high" to do something in any field of medicine
#4 You had a month to study for step I and take vacation and you decided to divide it as 28 days studying, and 2 days vacation.
#5 You're proud you studied for 9 hours a day rather than a mere 6 like those other losers who are going to be crappy doctors because they just don't care about this "all-important" test that most of the attendings on here can't even seem to remember how they scored on.
#6 You think a gunner is only some "bad dude" who sabotages his classmates rather than someone who sacrifices having a life for a slightly higher score on some stupid test, somehow imagining getting 5 more points is magically going to affect his future career.
#7 You're insulted by being called a gunner. Non-gunners know they're not a gunner so wouldn't be insulted by someone saying they were. Gunners aren't sure if they're a gunner or not.

I'm just teasing you so you'll lighten up a bit. Nobody is going to turn you away from an EM program because you had a high Step I score. Take a deep breath, do well on your rotations, especially your EM rotations, and try to be interesting when you go interview.
 
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strongboy2005 said:
I am going into EM because it's what I want to do. People who don't know what they want to do or knew they weren't going to go into a "competitive" specialty tended to study less. That is lazy. You should always do your best, especially on a test that matters so much. There is certainly a balance in life, but the weeks leading up to step 1 is not the time to take a trip to Europe, it is the time to buckle down. I did not take time off for vacation because my school only gives us 4 weeks to study already. Many of those people who took it early actually failed and I saw at least one student pulled off rotations. I certainly did not want to be in the position of failing or doing poorly and ruining my chances at EM.
Click to expand...

I studied for 3 wks then went on vacation for 1 wk. I did fine and i matched in EM. Chill out dude.
 
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