Top 10 vs. lower-ranked impacton future

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CaptainMarvel

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Hello,

I'm deciding between attending a Top 10 medical school far from home, or a lower-ranked University of California medical school closer to home. I am wondering if you think attending the top 10 school will have any benefits in terms of my future. I do not know what kind of medicine I want to go into. I've been told to think about 15-20 years down the road instead of just today. Today, it would be much easier for me to stay closer to home since my base is here. I would really appreciate your opinion.

Thank you.
 
I was thinking medical students would have a more-informed perspective on this.

If this fits better in Pre-Allo, can somebody please move it?

Thanks
 
I have nothing to contribute other than this decision is not as important as you think and neither is ranking. Go where you want. Do the pro/con list and use ranking as one pro for the top 10 school, but take into account the other things that are priorities for you. No one here is going to tell you you MUST go to the top 10 school over the UC school. The future is just NOT clear cut. How are you supposed to take the next 20 years into account? Are you a psychic?

Edit: I suppose I'll be more helpful... UC schools are very respected and I highly doubt the top 10 school will give you any advantage. You're obviously a really good student who will excell and you have WAY more control over your future than the name of your medical school.
 
OP,

Just out of curiosity, do you think any of the budget problems California is currently facing will affect your education in the UC system (cost, resources available, etc.)?
 
OP,

Just out of curiosity, do you think any of the budget problems California is currently facing will affect your education in the UC system (cost, resources available, etc.)?

Honestly, that issue is very low on my list of things to consider. I have a lot of confidence in the UC system and don't really question the quality of education I'd be getting, should I choose to attend.
 
Any difference in the cost of attendance or financial aid?

I would also think any UC school is a great place to be. (Especially if your alternative is somewhere cold. Winter is not fun if you've had it for 24 years).
 
moving to pre-allo.

Which school will cost you less money? While it may change in the future (get worse or get better), currently debt burden is a HUGE issue for graduating medical students. I would pick the school that will result in you have less debt at the end of your training. IMHO, as someone finishing training, this is one of the most important considerations (if not the most important). The other important considerations are whether you like the school or not, whether you want to live there, and where you see yourself practicing. Arbitrary rankings should not sway you as much as other factors.
 
Personally, judging on absolutely no real personal information...I'd probably choose a UC school over a Top 10 on the east coast if I was from CA. You'll be closer to home, with better weather, and most likely lower tuition costs (plus you won't have to pay a ton of money in flights to go home). Also, if you're looking to eventually settle on the West Coast, it's somewhat advantageous to begin your medical training in CA--- you'll work with patient populations your more likely to encounter in your career.

Remember, prestige in medical school is kind of like undergrad. You care about it a lot more when you're applying...and once you get there you realize it doesn't really matter too much at all. Choose where you'd be happiest at the lowest price.
 
Personally, judging on absolutely no real personal information...I'd probably choose a UC school over a Top 10 on the east coast if I was from CA. You'll be closer to home, with better weather, and most likely lower tuition costs (plus you won't have to pay a ton of money in flights to go home). Also, if you're looking to eventually settle on the West Coast, it's somewhat advantageous to begin your medical training in CA--- you'll work with patient populations your more likely to encounter in your career.

Remember, prestige in medical school is kind of like undergrad. You care about it a lot more when you're applying...and once you get there you realize it doesn't really matter too much at all. Choose where you'd be happiest at the lowest price.

Unless you want to be a research doc/prof, then it's kind of important I think.
 
Thanks for the responses so far.

The difference in cost is not much.

Prestige is nice but I'm trying not to let it sway my decision. I've seen a thread on this forum arguing that where you attend medical school is not an important factor when it comes to the residency match. However, I've seen the match lists from the two schools I'm considering and while they're both good, the one from the Top 10 is definitely more "competitive," meaning the names of the institutions where students matched are more impressive and the specialties the students chose to pursue are more competitive. I'm not sure what conclusion should be drawn from this, which is one of the reasons I started this thread.

As for what I want to do after medical school, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't want to feel limited by the school I choose to attend.
 
You draw from it that the students who matched to the better programs, regardless of what institution they went to, worked thier *** off to get into a good program and a good specialty. Matching is individually dependent and where you went to school factors very little, if at all into a PD's final decision.

You wouldn't be limited by any of the UC's - they're all great schools.
 
Unless you want to be a research doc/prof, then it's kind of important I think.

Well depending on the school...most of the UC schools have good research regardless so I think you'd be alright there.
 
Thanks for the responses so far.

The difference in cost is not much.

Prestige is nice but I'm trying not to let it sway my decision. I've seen a thread on this forum arguing that where you attend medical school is not an important factor when it comes to the residency match. However, I've seen the match lists from the two schools I'm considering and while they're both good, the one from the Top 10 is definitely more "competitive," meaning the names of the institutions where students matched are more impressive and the specialties the students chose to pursue are more competitive. I'm not sure what conclusion should be drawn from this, which is one of the reasons I started this thread.

As for what I want to do after medical school, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't want to feel limited by the school I choose to attend.

Residency match lists are notoriously difficult to interpret, and as someone else has pointed out there's heavy selection bias with "prestige" schools. If you transplanted those kids to other schools they'd still do incredibly well. And since you got in, you're essentially "one of those kids."

If prestige does matter to you, then go to the top 10. It may not be rational, but you can't argue against misery and some people just peg their self-worth to such things. If not, follow the money. If that leads you to a school with lower average GPA/MCAT, all the better. You will have a better shot at rotation/preclinical honors and AOA, either of which will eclipse school prestige. Trust me, you'll work just as hard at either institution.
 
Unless you want to be a research doc/prof, then it's kind of important I think.

Even then, residency takes priority. If you are strictly interested in research then you probably won't be applying to schools that don't have it anyway. Go to the UC. You'll realize once you start that med school is med school is med school. I'd do everything in my power to spend less money. That'll probably be more of an advantage in the future than what perceived prestige a certain school has.
 
I think it all depends on what you want to do in the future and how attached you are to California. If you are sure you want to be in California in the long run, stay there for medical school. I guess its easier said than done turning down a Top 10 school, but in a few years you'll find there is more to life than an arbitrary number.

On the flipside, if you feel the Top 10 school fits you much better personally, don't pick the UC school only for the sake of staying in Cali.

Good luck!
 
I think it all depends on what you want to do in the future and how attached you are to California. If you are sure you want to be in California in the long run, stay there for medical school. I guess its easier said than done turning down a Top 10 school, but in a few years you'll find there is more to life than an arbitrary number.

On the flipside, if you feel the Top 10 school fits you much better personally, don't pick the UC school only for the sake of staying in Cali.

Good luck!

Agree with this. I think it also depends on whether you think you might want to go into academic medicine or not, as that will be easier if you have your pedigree from a brand name school.

Personally, if I were in your shoes OP, I'd go with the UC, not that I had that choice. 😉
 
Why not go to the top 10? Yeah the UC would be more convenient for you, but I think living in a different place for awhile would be interesting and better for your development as a person. Especially considering that the costs are similar, and you may make sweeter connections at the top 10. plus the name of course.
 
Residency match lists are notoriously difficult to interpret, ...

Understatement of the year. You simply cannot interpret a match list because you can never know if people got what they wanted or what they could get. A match list might look great on paper, but if it's not what the applicants wanted, then it's a considerably worse match list than a less prestigious looking list where everybody got what they wanted. Residency match rankings are largely a matter of individual choice. Unlike applying to college or med school, where you might have the mindset to go to the best or most competitive program you could get into, when applying to residency, you are picking the specialty you want to practice for the next 40 or so years. So you have to like it, even if it's not the most competitive thing. If you love peds, you apply to peds, even if you numerically could have gotten derm. EVERY YEAR in EVERY SCHOOL there will be people who choose IM or surgery over a ROAD specialty, even though they have the stats for the ROAD specialty. And as people are older when they apply to residencies, they are more likely to be geographically tied based on spouses, SOs, kids, etc, so someone may decide to stay local even if it's not the best name place. And premeds don't know what places are good versus malignant. Some of the top med schools are affiliated with very malignant programs in some specialties. Every specialty has it's own hierarchy, and they don't track US News rankings. No place is best in every specialty, and most are downright awful in something. So you really can't look at a match list as a premed and say this one is better than that. You are wrong more often than right. Data that is very likely to be misinterpreted is bad data to look at. So don't waste your time with these. It at best tells you something about the current med school class, and at worst tells you the opposite of what you think. Garbage in, garbage out.
 
While I agree that one should not scrutinize match lists, I do believe that there are general trends that can be seen over the years. It is easy to see that many top-ranked schools generally post match lists with a higher percentage of graduates matching to high-powered programs compared to lower-ranked schools. Sure, people may choose certain programs or certain geographic locations for personal reasons, but these cases should ultimately even out if you look at match lists over a few years when comparing schools. While I do not promote agonizing over match lists, I do believe that there are trends that can be seen.

I do also find that the effect of "school prestige" is consistently downplayed on these boards. While I don't think that "school prestige" is the end-all, be-all of residency application, I do think that it plays a bigger effect that many people give it credit for. True, people can match into top programs from any school as long as they do well in their rotations and ace their boards. However, when trying to rank a group of equally highly-qualified applicants, "school prestige" can easily become a distinguishing factor and may be a difference between being ranked 8 or 9. The question that I think you should ask yourself when choosing medical school is that when you apply for residency, will you be bothered by the "what if's" if you ended up choosing a lower-ranked school but not matching at your top choice program? It is impossible to know exactly how much "school prestige" plays in the residency match process, and program directors would likely downplay its effects when officially asked. However, to say that it has "little effect if at all" is simply not true.

In addition, I think the biggest effect "school prestige" has is actually with those who are average to below-average in their medical school class. Middle to bottom third students from top schools often match into decent academic programs riding mostly on their school names. At the very least, they would have a much better chance staying at their home institution. This effect is often easily observed by looking at the residents list of many academic programs (particularly large programs). It is not uncommon to see a trend where residents from lower-ranked med schools are usually AOAs while those from higher-ranked schools are not. I think that this is an indication that "school prestige" plays a role in this process.

I do understand that many of my points are based on generalizations. However, I do think that they are useful in showing these trends. I am not putting down any school or students attending any school. I do believe that any student from any medical school can match into any program of any specialty, as long as he/she shines during medical school. However, I think that in a head-to-head comparison of similarly-qualified applicants when programs formulate rank lists, those from higher-ranked schools might have a slight leg-up. I also believe that "school prestige" does cast some sort of "safety net" for average or below-average students at higher-ranked schools. Therefore, I think one should take these into consideration when choosing schools.
 
In addition, I think the biggest effect "school prestige" has is actually with those who are average to below-average in their medical school class. Middle to bottom third students from top schools often match into decent academic programs riding mostly on their school names. At the very least, they would have a much better chance staying at their home institution. This effect is often easily observed by looking at the residents list of many academic programs (particularly large programs). It is not uncommon to see a trend where residents from lower-ranked med schools are usually AOAs while those from higher-ranked schools are not. I think that this is an indication that "school prestige" plays a role in this process.

Isn't it difficult to justify this without step 1 scores being factored in? I obviously don't know much about this, but it seems to me that another interpretation of this could be that the bottom half of students at a top school might be equally competitive as another school's AOA group, despite the fact that they are low on the grade side. For example, I think I heard somewhere that Penn's average step 1 score is around 240. I assume most of the students below 240 are in the 220/230s range. So, assuming the students with the lower average step 1 scores are the same students with lower grades, these students might be able to ride their above the national average step 1 score to an academic residency. Like I said, this is just another interpretation, can't prove it without detailed USMLE data.
 
If you admit students that have high MCAT and GPA then they are more than likely great test takers as well. High average board scores isn't necessarily a result of better teaching. It can be the result of average teaching with people that, historically, perform better than others on tests. So, if you have the goods at a supposed top 10 then you probably won't encounter anything different at the lower tiers.
 
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