Top Pharmacy School UCSF

[Charlene]

Hi All!

Can anyone (prepharm/current UCSF student) tell me what's unique about UCSF?

Can out-state students get CA residence after one year living in SF?

What about the cost of living in SF?

Thanks!!! I appreciate your responses! 🙂

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[UES Girl]

Hi All!

Can anyone (prepharm/current UCSF student) tell me what's unique about UCSF?

Can out-state students get CA residence after one year living in SF?

What about the cost of living in SF?

Thanks!!! I appreciate your responses! 🙂

1. This question is better answered by you researching on your own. So many things about the school make it unique:

• the curriculum ( the three different pathways tailored to your interests)
• the level of education - we are taught by some of the most acknowledged individuals in their fields (research Leslie Bennet for example)
• the Dean and her vision of the school makes it special - she just won Remington Honor Medal - highest achievement in the profession of pharmacy.
• Most importantly, the ambiance, the students and the hybrid of academic excellence combined with strong bonds amongst the student body

2. Yes, out of state students can gain residency after a year.
3. Cost of living in SF really is quite comparable to living in any other metropolitan area.

 

[boltdude]

1. This question is better answered by you researching on your own. So many things about the school make it unique:

• the curriculum ( the three different pathways tailored to your interests)
• the level of education - we are taught by some of the most acknowledged individuals in their fields (research Leslie Bennet for example)
• the Dean and her vision of the school makes it special - she just won Remington Honor Medal - highest achievement in the profession of pharmacy.
• Most importantly, the ambiance, the students and the hybrid of academic excellence combined with strong bonds amongst the student body

2. Yes, out of state students can gain residency after a year.
3. Cost of living in SF really is quite comparable to living in any other metropolitan area.

I agree with your points except #3. SF is pretty expensive to live in especially in the City. Granted, Inner/Outer Sunset is a little bit cheaper than some other parts of the city but it is still up there with parts of NYC.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

They are the best because a magazine that uses shoddy methods says it is. 👍

I've never met a person that went to UCSF. I have no idea what the school is like. But don't go to UCSF because US News says so. US News doesn't know what the hell they are talking about. It's based upon the subjective opinion of academics in a field that is very regionally segregated and tangential objective findings like research grant money. Go to whatever school you want to go to because you like it the best. Find out what you want out of a school, then go from there.

 

[boltdude]

They are the best because a magazine that uses shoddy methods says it is. 👍

I've never met a person that went to UCSF. I have no idea what the school is like. But don't go to UCSF because US News says so. US News doesn't know what the hell they are talking about. It's based upon the subjective opinion of academics in a field that is very regionally segregated and tangential objective findings like research grant money. Go to whatever school you want to go to because you like it the best. Find out what you want out of a school, then go from there.

I definitely agree with you that USNews is garbage and rankings mean crap. But I think there is no doubt that UCSF is the top school in terms of research, funding, publications, perceptions, and the opportunity to study/train in such a dynamic city. Does this mean a UCSF graduate is a better pharmacist than one that went to California Northstate? Probably not; that depends solely on how the student applies himself/herself. But yes, OP should go to the school that is best for him/her!

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I definitely agree with you that USNews is garbage and rankings mean crap. But I think there is no doubt that UCSF is the top school in terms of research, funding, publications, perceptions, and the opportunity to study/train in such a dynamic city. But yes, OP should go to the school that is best for him/her!

And you know this how?

I don't mean to pick on you, but have you been to Baltimore and seen the pharmacy rotations Maryland students have at Johns Hopkins? Have you been to Pitt and seen the rotations they have at UPMC? The rotations the Philly schools have at Penn? I can kinda speak to the schools in my region. Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, Maryland, Virginia...that's about it. Other than that, the best I could do is just going off of a stupid ass list like US News.

For the life of me, I just DO NOT understand how people can claim to know that a school is so much better or worse NATIONALLY than a school on the other end of the country they know nothing about. If you have experience in California and you've found that UCSF students are exemplary compared to other local schools, hey, great...but this hogwash about how they are the best nationally? I don't understand how it is even possible to know such a thing with any certainty.

I dunno, I just feel like ranting sometimes. I think I'll go watch TV now.

 

[boltdude]

And you know this how?

I don't mean to pick on you, but have you been to Baltimore and seen the pharmacy rotations Maryland students have at Johns Hopkins? Have you been to Pitt and seen the rotations they have at UPMC? The rotations the Philly schools have at Penn? I can kinda speak to the schools in my region. Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, Maryland, Virginia...that's about it. Other than that, the best I could do is just going off of a stupid ass list like US News.

For the life of me, I just DO NOT understand how people can claim to know that a school is so much better or worse NATIONALLY than a school on the other end of the country they know nothing about. If you have experience in California and you've found that UCSF students are exemplary compared to other local schools, hey, great...but this hogwash about how they are the best nationally? I don't understand how it is even possible to know such a thing with any certainty.

I dunno, I just feel like ranting sometimes. I think I'll go watch TV now.

Well, as for funding, publications, and perception, UCSF is #1 based on an article called: "Ranking of US pharmacy schools based on perception, funding, and publications" written by a group of pharmacists (not from UCSF). I assume those three criteria are factual (except maybe the 'perception' criteria although they probably surveyed some pharmacists). Granted that article is 8 years old but I doubt another school has overtaken UCSF in those criteria.

As for the studying/training in a dynamic city part, that is my own opinion and it isn't necessarily better than the other regions that you mention.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I dunno Chebs, you can't compare San Francisco CoL to, say, Dallas... which certainly is quite a metropolitan area.

Quick comparo:

Dallas - "Median gross rent in 2008: $769." (Apartments)

San Francisco - "Median gross rent in 2008: $1,262."

Miami - "Median gross rent in 2008: $826."

Seattle - "Median gross rent in 2008: $940."

Washington, D.C. - "Median gross rent in 2008: $1,011." [D.C. is cheaper than SF!!]

New York City - "Median gross rent in 2008: $1,044."



For another analytical metric, let's look at the cost of living index for Manhattan vs. San Francisco and a couple other "metropolitan" areas:

Dec. 2009 cost of living index in Manhattan: 190.3 (very high, U.S. average is 100)

Dec. 2009 cost of living index in San Francisco: 180.2 (very high, U.S. average is 100)

Dec. 2009 cost of living index in Washington: 101.6 (near average, U.S. average is 100)

Dec. 2009 cost of living index in Los Angeles: 166.4 (very high, U.S. average is 100)

Dec. 2009 cost of living index in Monterey: 128.0 (high, U.S. average is 100)

Dec. 2009 cost of living index in Miami: 140.3 (very high, U.S. average is 100)

So... Manhattan is the only metro. area I looked at that was over S.F.'s Cost of Living, and the closest on the lower side was LA.. ~20 points lower. Looking at Miami, you see ~40 points, Monterey ( A VERY expensive, touristy city along PCH) is ~60 points lower.

San Francisco is expensive as all get out. I remember sharing a 2 bedroom flat in the Haight with 3 friends and still paying ~900 bucks a month for rent, utils, etc.

Not to mention the $5.95 mochas, yeesh.




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[boltdude]

San Francisco is expensive as all get out. I remember sharing a 2 bedroom flat in the Haight with 3 friends and still paying ~900 bucks a month for rent, utils, etc.

I remember living in the Tenderloin and paying $800. 😡
I should have lived in Oakland and took my chances...

 

[UES Girl]

I dunno Chebs, you can't compare San Francisco CoL to, say, Dallas... which certainly is quite a metropolitan area.

Yeah, you are a right. 🙂 Growing up here made me desensitized to how expensive things here are. I was thinking NY, LA and SD probably compare, but those are expensive cities as well.

I pay 750 now for my share of rent and live in paradise. Now you can see why I was overjoyed to find a deal like that here. 🙂 I love the use of comparo, btw - super awesome.

 

[tungsten87]

i think it's ridiculous to say any single school is "the best" in the country, but based on the intensive research i did prior to applying to pharmacy school i would definitely have to say UCSF is up there in terms of NIH funding, curricula, and faculty.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

I remember living in the Tenderloin and paying $800. 😡
I should have lived in Oakland and took my chances...

I don't think it's worth it. lol I lived in Miami and the reason the gross rent is so low is because Miami Dade encompasses the extremely upscale neighborhoods like Star Island (Miami Beach), South Beach, and Coral Gables, but it also includes the hard core ghetto and section 8 housing. Even if they just included the metro area downtown the have Brickell on one end (2000+/month for a 2 bedroom) and Overtown on the other end (projects).

I lived in Kendall which is like the middle class family neighborhood in the southwest and my rent was 1000/month for a 750 sq ft one bedroom. I would not risk living someone shady to save the extra 200 dollars.

My uncle lives in California and he was almost killed last month in Oakland when he got mugged, but that's because he goes around alone and does things alone and that probably invites shady people to mess with you.

 

[Trunks9807]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but to my understanding, the pharmacy school ranking is based off of funding a school gets for research and its publications. Not the quality of education measured by student gpa or test scores.

 

[rxlea]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but to my understanding, the pharmacy school ranking is based off of funding a school gets for research and its publications. Not the quality of education measured by student gpa or test scores.

This: http://www.usnews.com/articles/educ...ulated-the-2011-graduate-school-rankings.html

 

[rycetrix]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but to my understanding, the pharmacy school ranking is based off of funding a school gets for research and its publications. Not the quality of education measured by student gpa or test scores.

It is also measured by survey of public opinion of faculty, administrators, and staff across the country from most, if not all the pharmacy schools. You can't measure the quality of education based solely on GPA or test scores because quality cannot be measured so objectively. Since quality is an subjective trait, that is why people even bother asking this question in the first place because you start to wonder whether it is worth it to apply and attend a certain school.

And you know this how?

I don't mean to pick on you, but have you been to Baltimore and seen the pharmacy rotations Maryland students have at Johns Hopkins? Have you been to Pitt and seen the rotations they have at UPMC? The rotations the Philly schools have at Penn? I can kinda speak to the schools in my region. Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, Maryland, Virginia...that's about it. Other than that, the best I could do is just going off of a stupid ass list like US News.

For the life of me, I just DO NOT understand how people can claim to know that a school is so much better or worse NATIONALLY than a school on the other end of the country they know nothing about. If you have experience in California and you've found that UCSF students are exemplary compared to other local schools, hey, great...but this hogwash about how they are the best nationally? I don't understand how it is even possible to know such a thing with any certainty.

I dunno, I just feel like ranting sometimes. I think I'll go watch TV now.

I do agree with you WVUPharm2007 because it is such a subjective trait. Unless you have attended all the different pharmacy schools, one cannot gauge the quality of education received. However, I do want to say that Maryland is one of the "top" programs as considered by US News and having rotations at Johns Hopkins helps a lot. Similarly, UCSF's hospital is considered one of the top as well, especially considering the medical school which is both in the top 5 for primary care and research rankings. I think associations with these great medical centers tends to sway some public opinion of which school may be better, but it is still a subjective observation.

Cost of living in San Francisco is definitely a negative. San Francisco is one of the most expensive cities in the country, but then again, it is also one of the most diverse.

 

[Charlene]

It is also measured by survey of public opinion of faculty, administrators, and staff across the country from most, if not all the pharmacy schools. You can't measure the quality of education based solely on GPA or test scores because quality cannot be measured so objectively. Since quality is an subjective trait, that is why people even bother asking this question in the first place because you start to wonder whether it is worth it to apply and attend a certain school.



I do agree with you WVUPharm2007 because it is such a subjective trait. Unless you have attended all the different pharmacy schools, one cannot gauge the quality of education received. However, I do want to say that Maryland is one of the "top" programs as considered by US News and having rotations at Johns Hopkins helps a lot. Similarly, UCSF's hospital is considered one of the top as well, especially considering the medical school which is both in the top 5 for primary care and research rankings. I think associations with these great medical centers tends to sway some public opinion of which school may be better, but it is still a subjective observation.

Cost of living in San Francisco is definitely a negative. San Francisco is one of the most expensive cities in the country, but then again, it is also one of the most diverse.

Thanks for the comment.

Then, how do we evaluate the curriculum and faculty in certain schools, let's say UCSF, before we go into any pharmacy school? What's the good aspects about UCSF's curriculum? Don't all of the accredited schools follow certain standard set by AACP?

 

[rxlea]

Thanks for the comment.

Then, how do we evaluate the curriculum and faculty in certain schools, let's say UCSF, before we go into any pharmacy school? What's the good aspects about UCSF's curriculum? Don't all of the accredited schools follow certain standard set by AACP?

From my interview experiences, I think you can tell a lot about a school on interview day. You can see the attitude of the students and faculty you meet. The faculty and staff talk about the curriculum and the strengths of the school. The tour gives you a good sense about the general "feel" of the school, too. I was very impressed with both of the schools I interviewed at. If you go to a school's website, they also list their rotation sites, curriculum, and some of the affiliations with hospitals and other institutions. You can also read a lot about the faculty and their research. I think interview day presents an opportunity for you to ask questions about the program. Programs that are well established, have good connections, well qualified faculty well-known in their field, and lots of opportunities for student involvement, IMO, are going to be the "better" schools.

 

[Zera]

Can anyone tell me what "rotations" are? I see people mention them all the time on these forums. (I'm in high school so please try and refrain yourselves from laughing at me)

 

[rxlea]

Can anyone tell me what "rotations" are? I see people mention them all the time on these forums. (I'm in high school so please try and refrain yourselves from laughing at me)

In the final year in pharm school, students go on rotations where they basically get the clinical experience required to graduate. This mean students rotate through different settings: hospital, ambulatory, community, etc. I believe rotations at most places are ~5 weeks in length. So, you essentially go to a site and the preceptors teach you about how to be a pharmacist in that setting. Though I hear that some preceptors are better than others Aside from your required rotations, you have elective rotations where you can pick a setting that you think you would like.

 

[Charlene]

In the final year in pharm school, students go on rotations where they basically get the clinical experience required to graduate. This mean students rotate through different settings: hospital, ambulatory, community, etc. I believe rotations at most places are ~5 weeks in length. So, you essentially go to a site and the preceptors teach you about how to be a pharmacist in that setting. Though I hear that some preceptors are better than others Aside from your required rotations, you have elective rotations where you can pick a setting that you think you would like.

Do you guys work in pharmacy school?

 

[UES Girl]

What's the good aspects about UCSF's curriculum?

Quoting myself from one of the earlier posts😉 :

( the three different pathways tailored to your interests)

 

[stkyrice]

Thanks for the comment.

Then, how do we evaluate the curriculum and faculty in certain schools, let's say UCSF, before we go into any pharmacy school? What's the good aspects about UCSF's curriculum? Don't all of the accredited schools follow certain standard set by AACP?

There are certain aspects that are required to be in the curriculum standards set up by ACPE, but there is also a huge amount of leeway, which is why some schools do the block system, and UCSF does a more classical curriculum.

That being said, the curriculum here at UCSF is under constant debate. UCSF nearly changed their entire curriculum to blocks similar to the med school and Pass/Fail over 10 years ago, but decided not to. We were the first class to have physical chem be only one quarter instead of a quarter and a half.

I think the strongest aspect of UCSF's curriculum is that the first year is dedicated to making sure that we're all on the same page by our P2 year. That being said, a lot of students get really bored since a lot of the classes are repeat (biochemistry, physical chemistry, organic chemistry, histology and gross anatomy), but I think it helps. There is debate also whether we should take therapeutics from our first year, but we get an introductory class called clinical pharmacy that focuses on OTC products that prepares us for therapeutics from spring our P2 year to winter our P3 year.

Take the time to ask students at schools that you're interested in to see what they think of the curriculum to get the best answer.

As for rankings, personally, I got really sick of being told that we're at the #1 school in the country (or world, galaxy, universe) because it just felt like indoctrination. I think that regardless of what school you get into, you have to make the most of it. I wish that it was like dental schools where there is no ranking.

 

[Muangz]

Stated from US News, "These rankings are based on two types of data: expert opinions about program quality and statistical indicators that measure the quality of a school's faculty, research, and students."

Everyone is arguing that 'expert opinions' are subjective. All I can tell you is that the statistic about percentage of students passing the boards reflects the curriculum taught by the best faculty with top-notch research.

Quoted from UCSF, "more than 99% pass the licensure examinations."

What about other schools and their passing rates?

 

[Charlene]

As for rankings, personally, I got really sick of being told that we're at the #1 school in the country (or world, galaxy, universe) because it just felt like indoctrination. I think that regardless of what school you get into, you have to make the most of it. I wish that it was like dental schools where there is no ranking.

Thanks for the elaboration.

How do you feel about your class (maturity, intelligence, friendship, etc)? Is everyone very motivated and enthusiastic about school? What kind of activities you can participate in?

 

[Passion4Sci]

99% is unremarkable when 62 others schools boast 90%+ passing rates. The NAPLEX is woefully simple to pass apparently (Compare it to, say, USMLE steps).


Not to discredit UCSF naturally.

This whole thing is silly, because until there's an industry standard (like there is in law, a massive polarization), it's all bench racing.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

99% is unremarkable when 62 others schools boast 90%+ passing rates. The NAPLEX is woefully simple to pass apparently (Compare it to, say, USMLE steps).


Not to discredit UCSF naturally.

This whole thing is silly, because until there's an industry standard (like there is in law, a massive polarization), it's all bench racing.

Glad you said something because I didn't want to be the one. lol

 

[WVUPharm2007]

99% is unremarkable when 62 others schools boast 90%+ passing rates. The NAPLEX is woefully simple to pass apparently (Compare it to, say, USMLE steps).

I studied for exactly 5 hours in total and I think I got a 120...or 130...or something like that...

If you go through pharmacy school and can't pass it, I pity you. It's not a reflection of the school if a handful of kids don't pass. Some people just suck at using long term memory.

 

[rxlea]

So Mike, would you say D'Youville = UCSF if they have the same NAPLEX pass rate? 🤣

 

[Passion4Sci]

So Mike, would you say D'Youville = UCSF if they have the same NAPLEX pass rate? 🤣

Mikey is a proponent of regional pharmacy school stuff.

He "learnt me" on the ways of the hill-going folk and how they don't even know what UCSF is "over yonder" 😀

 

[rxlea]

Mikey is a proponent of regional pharmacy school stuff.

He "learnt me" on the ways of the hill-going folk and how they don't even know what UCSF is "over yonder" 😀

Oh yeah, that's right! The regional thing is definitely something to consider, though. I didn't even know some of those pharmacy schools existed before I checked out PharmCAS, especially the newer, stand alone ones and the religiously affiliated ones.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

So Mike, would you say D'Youville = UCSF if they have the same NAPLEX pass rate? 🤣

More than 90% of your students pass the Naplex? Pssssh. That ain't ****. Back in the day, 100% of the kids participating in rec league basketball got a "Certificate of Participation" to take home. 100%, BABY!!!

One-Zero-Zero. Percent. Two caddy-corner circles. With a line in between them. I talking PERCENT.

Worlt Renownt.

 

[rycetrix]

Stated from US News, "These rankings are based on two types of data: expert opinions about program quality and statistical indicators that measure the quality of a school's faculty, research, and students."

Everyone is arguing that 'expert opinions' are subjective. All I can tell you is that the statistic about percentage of students passing the boards reflects the curriculum taught by the best faculty with top-notch research.

Quoted from UCSF, "more than 99% pass the licensure examinations."

What about other schools and their passing rates?

I don't think the rankings are based on NAPLEX passing rate. Statistical indicators are such that you rank on a point scale when surveying all the pharmacy schools and create categories relating to faculty, research, and students. You compile all the results together, and perform statistical analysis to show who had the most points for certain categories and who had the least.

Just to be clear, UCSF's pass rates haven't necessarily been spectacular especially on the CPJE. That is not necessarily a reflection on the quality of education and the faculty here, but as WVU said, lack of short term memory/not great test taking skills. You can train the whole student body to pass an exam no problem. But, how do they function out in the real world? Counseling patients, managing medication therapy, thinking critically for themselves, etc...these qualities are not indicative of two exams and thus, you can't rank schools based on exam scores. Additionally, the CPJE is much harder than the MPJE because California is stand alone and has it's own intricacies within state law and that's why there are issues with passing it.

What I've gotten from UCSF so far is you need to think for yourself. If you don't remember something, you should know where to look for it. Additionally, UCSF emphasizes leadership and encourages students to be proactive about pharmacy to become the next innovators in the profession. You definitely can't test on that.

 

[Muangz]

99% is unremarkable when 62 others schools boast 90%+ passing rates. The NAPLEX is woefully simple to pass apparently (Compare it to, say, USMLE steps).


Not to discredit UCSF naturally.

This whole thing is silly, because until there's an industry standard (like there is in law, a massive polarization), it's all bench racing.

And where are the other schools aside from the 62?

 

[kogekao]

Additionally, UCSF emphasizes leadership and encourages students to be proactive about pharmacy to become the next innovators in the profession. You definitely can't test on that.

👍👍

 

[Passion4Sci]

And where are the other schools aside from the 62?

High 80s.

Lowest school is 83%.

99% is not remarkable.

Using the NAPLEX pass rate as a bragging right undermines the other great things UCSF has going for it. That's a very faulty piece to the puzzle.

 

[Muangz]

No intention of BRAGGING. Simply quoting and had thought it could have been factored into the statistical scores used for ranking.

Of course, not to be redundant, but as other people have already stated: the curriculum, the faculty, and the post-program paths students take make them [remarkable?] top ranked.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Yeah...still don't buy the bull****.

Other schools have top talent, too. I see nothing that really separates UCSF from any other top school. And, honestly, as prepharmacy students and/or pharmacy students, do any of your really have any idea what you are talking about, anyway?

I've been out and practicing with pharmacists from up and down the Eastern seaboard and I have no idea how good the graduates from any school West of the Mississippi are. Or South of Virginia. And its a vice-versa type of thing. There is little regional mixing of talent based on how the top schools work. Typically, the top student talent goes to the best big state school in their local region. Kids from Ohio go to Ohio State. Kids from Kentucky go to Kentucky. Kids from PA go to Pitt. I went to WVU. Going to UCSF isn't even on our radar. If you are from California, its on your radar as they mostly take in-state kids. It's not like Harvard or MIT where kids from all over the world are trying to get in.

So, again, I can't see anyway where a truly objective comparative opinion can be formulated comparing a UCSF to a UNC...or UMN...or Pitt...or Maryland...etc, etc....it's just impossible.