Top Tier Interview chances

[rufio173]

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I'm currently a MS4 as of right now at UVA. I'm just wondering what my chances are for getting an interview at a top tier school (Stanford, UCSF, MGH, Duke, Wake Forest)...

Just a few stats:

Step I: 231
Step II: 256

First 2 years of med school, I passed (its a pass/fail system now). I did not make top 20% in my class in the first 2 years.

A's in Surgery, Family Med, Psychiatry.
B+ in Medicine
B in Ob-Gyn
A- in Pediatrics

I've got 2 research publications with my name in them. Been involved in some community service in my area, but not too much other than that since med school is pretty time consuming. I have been able to keep up some of my most favorite hobbies. I'm in the med school anesthiology interest group and I plan on doing a bit of research in anesthiology this year so I've got something to talk about on the interview trail.

Let's just assume I get some solid LORs from anesthesia, medicine and surgery (3-4 LORs)

Any previous applicant's experience with this would be great! I really appreciate the input. I'm really just wondering as I know it is getting more and more competitive nowadays... especially at the California schools.

Thanks,
John

 

[Gern Blansten]

You are in good shape. You will easily get interviews at most.

 

[rufio173]

You are in good shape. You will easily get interviews at most.

Thanks Gern! Are you getting this from personal experience or from friend's experiences?

Cheers,
John

 

[person2004]

Your grades and USMLEs make you sound pretty smart, but your asking this question given your grades and USMLEs makes you sound ******ed, or at the least unnecessarily insecure.

 

[Trisomy13]

I had considerably worse scores than yours (albeit with a similar improvement between Steps 1-2), aand arguably similar or worse MS1-3 grades than yours, and I interviewed at several "top tier" places. Other factors - I had extensive research experience and a masters in public health (that I actually use, not just a med school entrance ticket). Point being, there are a lot of factors to consider in your application that will determine if you get a "top tier" interview. Even more for you to consider when you actually interview at that dream program. But that's a whole other issue.



Bottom line is you're in good shape. Write a sincere and coherent personal statement that makes you stand out, get good LORs, and you should have a nice selection of interviews.

 

[DreamLover]

Your grades and USMLEs make you sound pretty smart, but your asking this question given your grades and USMLEs makes you sound ******ed, or at the least unnecessarily insecure.

Come on now, no need to be mean. No matter what our stats are at this point, the fact that it's getting so close is bugging us all out. It's normal to be nervous. I'd love an interview at UCSD, MGH, and Duke myself...but do I know if I'll get one (no matter how much I like myself) nope...I haven't a clue...at this point I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'll keep them crossed for all of us.

 

[rufio173]

Your grades and USMLEs make you sound pretty smart, but your asking this question given your grades and USMLEs makes you sound ******ed, or at the least unnecessarily insecure.

Just a little nervous is all. I keep hearing different things... from different people. One of the residents I know who was doing a prelim. medicine year here and then heading up to UPENN for his 3 years of anesthesia training got like a 250 on his Step I and a 240 something on Step II and he said I should work on doing better on my Step II if I wanted to get into top tier programs.

Anyways, that kind of stressed me out and I guess the whole application process is stressing me out as well. 🙂 I think I'm pretty competitive for most programs, just wasn't really sure if I was competitive for the "top tier" programs. Then again, I know that ultimately I will most likely go to the place that fits me best and that might not be a top tier program. I just want excellent training and exposure to all kinds of situations.

Peace,
John H.

 

[rufio173]

I had considerably worse scores than yours (albeit with a similar improvement between Steps 1-2), aand arguably similar or worse MS1-3 grades than yours, and I interviewed at several "top tier" places. Other factors - I had extensive research experience and a masters in public health (that I actually use, not just a med school entrance ticket). Point being, there are a lot of factors to consider in your application that will determine if you get a "top tier" interview. Even more for you to consider when you actually interview at that dream program. But that's a whole other issue.



Bottom line is you're in good shape. Write a sincere and coherent personal statement that makes you stand out, get good LORs, and you should have a nice selection of interviews.

Thanks for the input, it puts my mind at ease when someone that has gone through the process posts. Hope all is going well for you in the program that you decided on attending!

 

[wvumd]

Thanks for the input, it puts my mind at ease when someone that has gone through the process posts. Hope all is going well for you in the program that you decided on attending!

For the rest of us middle of the road students, what does it take to get into any program. I know that his forum is full of over achievers because the majority of medical students don't have Step 1's > 230 like they seem to do in here. Realistically, what is needed to match into a good "middle of the road" program?

 

[Trisomy13]

Realistically, what is needed to match into a good "middle of the road" program?

USMLE > 200.
Good attitude.
Money to apply widely.

Anesthesiology is competitive, getting more so, but don't believe the hype that you need to be Doogie Howser to get a spot, even at a top program. I know some of my classmates who matched at Cornell, UCSF, and they were not insane overachievers. The insane overachievers go to ENT 😉

 

[jennyboo]

You have better results than me (same boards, but I had no A's). I interviewed at most of the "top" programs I applied to last year, and matched accordingly. Don't worry about it -- the only suggestion I have for "improving" your application is to submit it EARLY. Submit it as soon as the ERAS application service opens (Sept 1, although in truth I overran to Sept 7), even if all your letters of recommendation are not in yet. If you submit early you'll definitely get invited to most top programs you apply to (in fact, you'll probably get invited to almost all the programs you apply for). To give you an idea of what you'll end up getting, here's a rough list of programs I applied to, and the ones I got invited to are bolded. They range from highly competitive to non-competitive, I'll leave you to figure out which is which.

MA
- Baystate
- University of Massachusetts
- Boston University
- Tufts/New England Medical Center
- Tufts/St Elizabeth
- Harvard/Beth Israel Deaconess
- Harvard/Brigham & Women's
- Harvard/Massachusetts General Hospital

NH
- Dartmouth

CT
- University of Connecticut
- Yale

NY
- Columbia
- Cornell
- Mt Sinai
- St Luke's Roosevelt
- St Vincent
- Albert Einstein

PA
- University of Pennsylvania
- Drexel
- Thomas Jefferson University

NC
- Duke
- University of North Carolina

MD
- Johns Hopkins

CA
- Stanford
- UC Irvine
- UC San Diego

Please do not apply to as many as me. In fact I think you'll probably get invited to some programs I didn't get invited to with your better record. 😀 I cancelled most of these interviews because I had too many. You will have no problem getting interviews. If you apply to 20 strong programs, you'll probably get at least 15 interviews -- which is already more than you can handle.

 

[Induc(junc)tion]

Jennyboo, did you have step 2 scores in at the time of application and or interviews? Would you recommend step 2 with a very strong step 1?

 

[supahfresh]

Let's say for arguments's sake that I tell you that you are not that competitive. How would that change what you do? You'd still apply to top tier programs right? You'll still study hard for Step II. The trick here is not to check the little box that automatically submits your step II score on the ERAS application.

Overall, you sound like you're in great shape. I think it's fine to apply to a lot of programs, but as jennyboo pointed out, you may not be able to interview at a lot of programs. eventually you will encounter a lack of funds and or time. apply to what you think you should, then interview wisely at places you would really consider going.

Just a little nervous is all. I keep hearing different things... from different people. One of the residents I know who was doing a prelim. medicine year here and then heading up to UPENN for his 3 years of anesthesia training got like a 250 on his Step I and a 240 something on Step II and he said I should work on doing better on my Step II if I wanted to get into top tier programs.

Anyways, that kind of stressed me out and I guess the whole application process is stressing me out as well. 🙂 I think I'm pretty competitive for most programs, just wasn't really sure if I was competitive for the "top tier" programs. Then again, I know that ultimately I will most likely go to the place that fits me best and that might not be a top tier program. I just want excellent training and exposure to all kinds of situations.

Peace,
John H.

 

[Laryngospasm]

I'm currently a MS4 as of right now at UVA. I'm just wondering what my chances are for getting an interview at a top tier school (Stanford, UCSF, MGH, Duke, Wake Forest)...

Just a few stats:

Step I: 231
Step II: 256

First 2 years of med school, I passed (its a pass/fail system now). I did not make top 20% in my class in the first 2 years.

A's in Surgery, Family Med, Psychiatry.
B+ in Medicine
B in Ob-Gyn
A- in Pediatrics

I've got 2 research publications with my name in them. Been involved in some community service in my area, but not too much other than that since med school is pretty time consuming. I have been able to keep up some of my most favorite hobbies. I'm in the med school anesthiology interest group and I plan on doing a bit of research in anesthiology this year so I've got something to talk about on the interview trail.

Let's just assume I get some solid LORs from anesthesia, medicine and surgery (3-4 LORs)

Any previous applicant's experience with this would be great! I really appreciate the input. I'm really just wondering as I know it is getting more and more competitive nowadays... especially at the California schools.

Thanks,
John

No chance at all, youd better stick to fam med, IM and psych. Its not derm, and you know what, youd still have a chance at that. Give me a break. 🙄

 

[Gern Blansten]

Thanks Gern! Are you getting this from personal experience or from friend's experiences?

Cheers,
John

Many years of experience. You are applying at one of the most competitive years in the last ~15 years, but your scores and grades seem to be easily enough to get you a look by most programs. Remember, we all know the person with the 260 on step I that nobody can stand. It is not ALL about the USMLE.

 

[wvumd]

Will programs even look at my application if its not complete? (ie missing suffiencet number of LORs etc)

You have better results than me (same boards, but I had no A's). I interviewed at most of the "top" programs I applied to last year, and matched accordingly. Don't worry about it -- the only suggestion I have for "improving" your application is to submit it EARLY. Submit it as soon as the ERAS application service opens (Sept 1, although in truth I overran to Sept 7), even if all your letters of recommendation are not in yet. If you submit early you'll definitely get invited to most top programs you apply to (in fact, you'll probably get invited to almost all the programs you apply for). To give you an idea of what you'll end up getting, here's a rough list of programs I applied to, and the ones I got invited to are bolded. They range from highly competitive to non-competitive, I'll leave you to figure out which is which.

MA
- Baystate
- University of Massachusetts
- Boston University
- Tufts/New England Medical Center
- Tufts/St Elizabeth
- Harvard/Beth Israel Deaconess
- Harvard/Brigham & Women's
- Harvard/Massachusetts General Hospital

NH
- Dartmouth

CT
- University of Connecticut
- Yale

NY
- Columbia
- Cornell
- Mt Sinai
- St Luke's Roosevelt
- St Vincent
- Albert Einstein

PA
- University of Pennsylvania
- Drexel
- Thomas Jefferson University

NC
- Duke
- University of North Carolina

MD
- Johns Hopkins

CA
- Stanford
- UC Irvine
- UC San Diego

Please do not apply to as many as me. In fact I think you'll probably get invited to some programs I didn't get invited to with your better record. 😀 I cancelled most of these interviews because I had too many. You will have no problem getting interviews. If you apply to 20 strong programs, you'll probably get at least 15 interviews -- which is already more than you can handle.

 

[rufio173]

Thanks for all the different point of views. It is exactly what I needed and most have been very helpful. Time to get cracking on that ERAS application. 🙂

JennyBoo, thanks go especially to you for sharing your list with the group. You have a lot of really solid programs on there! Where did you eventually decide to go for residency?

Peace,
John

 

[Gern Blansten]

Will programs even look at my application if its not complete? (ie missing suffiencet number of LORs etc)

I think if it is near complete, most will look and consider an offer if you appear to be a good candidate. By all means, DO NOT wait for it to be complete before submitting it. Get your application in EARLY, even if it is only partial.

 

[Venus21pam]

I've been watching this thread and many others that touch the sensitive topic of "chances" and as much as I'm trying to ease my mind concerning my chances for a good match one little thing keeps bothering me: being a foreign graduate...
I have researched a number of "top" anesthesia programs and I have noticed a pattern: no foreign graduates.
Does it really discredit me from the start??
Is it even worth applying to the top programs for a foreign grad??
My USMLE scores are decent (both >240), I have good LOR (I think?),
I graduated with honors (from the noone-has-ever-heard-of med shool in Europe though) so I don't know... I'm really stressed out about the whole application process.
I can't really apply to more than 30 programs because I don't have that kind of cash so I'm torn - should I apply to the top programs and hope for a miracle or just settle for the not-so-great ones?
Anyone?

 

[TIVA]

Write a kick arse essay and apply to every program in the country including the top 50 ones. Money be damned. It'll be well worth it. From what you've written so far, I'd expect that you'd be able to interview at most good places.

And at the end of the day, it's not the program that makes a good anesthesiologist. It's you and what you put into it. I've met great anesthesiologists from "average" programs and average anesthesiologists from "great" programs."

 

[Venus21pam]

That's a good point TIVA, I absolutely agree with you!

I did an anesthesia rotation at a program that didn't make any top 10 or even top 30 lists but I absolutely loved it there!
The attendings are wonderful, the atmosphere is great, all the residents love the place and wouldn't trade for anything... The only drawback is the lack of research base and nasty weather, but hey, we can't have everything now can we?
I don't know how the job market will treat the graduates since it's nota big name program but I'm sure they will do fine.

But you see even in a program like that I was told they don't take foreign grads. Their website will tell you - foreign grads are welcome to apply under the following conditions bla bla bla but when I spoke with a program director he told me straight out - we do not take foreign grads.
Actually that's one of their screening tools when they look at the applications: foreign grad - straight to the trash. So go figure!

 

[Gern Blansten]

I've been watching this thread and many others that touch the sensitive topic of "chances" and as much as I'm trying to ease my mind concerning my chances for a good match one little thing keeps bothering me: being a foreign graduate...
I have researched a number of "top" anesthesia programs and I have noticed a pattern: no foreign graduates.
Does it really discredit me from the start??
Is it even worth applying to the top programs for a foreign grad??
My USMLE scores are decent (both >240), I have good LOR (I think?),
I graduated with honors (from the noone-has-ever-heard-of med shool in Europe though) so I don't know... I'm really stressed out about the whole application process.
I can't really apply to more than 30 programs because I don't have that kind of cash so I'm torn - should I apply to the top programs and hope for a miracle or just settle for the not-so-great ones?
Anyone?

Diversify your portfolio. Apply to some top programs, middle of the road programs, and apply to some that no one else wants. You will greatly increase your chances without selling yourself too short. If you only apply to the most competitive, you may be disappointed.

 

[dhb]

My USMLE scores are decent (both >240)

Gimme a break! can you read a Gauss curve? you would have noticed that those scores put you in the top 5 to 10% of applicants! isn't that enough? i just can believe those 240+ whiners 🙄

I have researched a number of "top" anesthesia programs and I have noticed a pattern: no foreign graduates.

not last time i checked! which ones in particular? a lot offer positions outside the match!

 

[medstudent99]

i'd be really surprised if rufio didn't match at a top tier program in any field of medicine...gimme a break dude with those scores u can tell attendings what to do...j/k lol

 

[medstudent99]

I'm currently a MS4 as of right now at UVA. I'm just wondering what my chances are for getting an interview at a top tier school (Stanford, UCSF, MGH, Duke, Wake Forest)...

Just a few stats:

Step I: 231
Step II: 256


256 on Step 2! whutz that like 99th percentile or something...gimme a break, whutdya do sit down and memorize freakin harrison's or what??? LOL

 

[Venus21pam]

Well how do I know which programs offer positions outside the match???
They won't just put that on their website or tell you over the phone...

Plus having good scores doesn't erase the fact I'm a foreign grad.
And I mean really foreign - not american international grad.
I'm like straight off the boat foreign ok

 

[rufio173]

I'm currently a MS4 as of right now at UVA. I'm just wondering what my chances are for getting an interview at a top tier school (Stanford, UCSF, MGH, Duke, Wake Forest)...

Just a few stats:

Step I: 231
Step II: 256


256 on Step 2! whutz that like 99th percentile or something...gimme a break, whutdya do sit down and memorize freakin harrison's or what??? LOL

It was actually quite a bit of luck I think... I definitely did not feel like a 256er after I left the testing center. I mean, I thought it was easier than step I, but wasn't even considering something in the 250s area. I just left the test center feeling like I had done "OK". 🙂

Let's just say that I was incredibly happy when I received that score! My mom actually opened up the test score sheet and reported the score and I was in disbelief... I didn't truly believe it until I had seen it for myself.

Coincidentally, one of my good friends that was at the same testing center did almost as well. He received a 255.

Once again, thanks to all for the info. and encouraging words and constructive criticism. I'm looking forward to the interviews.

Peace,
John H.

 

[jennyboo]

Will programs even look at my application if its not complete? (ie missing suffiencet number of LORs etc)

Yes. When I submitted my application, I had only 2 of 3 letters of recommendation uploaded. I began receiving invitations prior to the submission of the last letter.

Jennyboo, did you have step 2 scores in at the time of application and or interviews? Would you recommend step 2 with a very strong step 1?

In retrospect, I would say I had a pretty decent Step 1 that was just shy of a standard deviation above average, but I wouldn't say I blew that test out of the water. With my 233, I applied and got invited to all of those programs without Step 2. I took Step 2 in March a couple weeks before Match Day -- the residency programs never saw it during the interview process.

 

[wvumd]

Yes. When I submitted my application, I had only 2 of 3 letters of recommendation uploaded. I began receiving invitations prior to the submission of the last letter.



In retrospect, I would say I had a pretty decent Step 1 that was just shy of a standard deviation above average, but I wouldn't say I blew that test out of the water. With my 233, I applied and got invited to all of those programs without Step 2. I took Step 2 in March a couple weeks before Match Day -- the residency programs never saw it during the interview process.

Will they look at my application if I don't have any lORs uploaded

 

[Venus21pam]

Does anyone know of programs that offer positions outside the match?

And one more question: everyone is talking about the "top" programs.
What about the ones noone wants to go to?
Which ones are those?? 😕

 

[dhb]

Brigham & Women's holds +- 5 spots out of 30 for outside the match (it helps to be german 😀 ) and if you check out the web site of the MGH i think it says they take people outside the match too

 

[C_Asherman]

Venus, where did u rotate? Sorry, but I couldnt send you a PM 🙁

 

[MD Dreams]

The following two sign outside of the match. New York Methodist and Brookdale Hospital in Brooklyn, NY.

 

[rufio173]

This is just a quick update for those future applicants wanting to go into the wonderful world of Anesthesia:

Interview invites:

BWH
Columbia
Dartmouth
Duke
Mayo Jacksonville
Penn State
Stanford
UAB
UCHSC
UCSD
UCSF
UF
UNC
UPenn
UVA
Wake Forest

Rejections:

MGH

So, as you can see. With similar grades and similar board scores (even with the slightly increased competitiveness of the specialty), you can pretty much go almost anywhere you want as long as you interview well. Even with slightly lower grades, you probably could get all of these programs. I'd even say if I were situated up further north, that I might've had a better chance at interviewing at MGH.

The one thing I would suggest to most of you is to actually give those programs, which you really want to go to, a friendly call to ask whether they've looked at your application yet. I think that if you are on the borderline, this little gesture might tip you over for an interview. E-mail would also work I think. Just let them know that you'd really like to come and visit their program.

Also, get your applications in as early as possible. The earlier they go in, the earlier that your application is seen. This is a good thing for scheduling interviews as you will most likely get first pick of dates for interviews. Also, if you don't get them in early, you may be waitlisted as the number of applications from qualified candidates have gone up year to year. If you get waitlisted, it may not mean that you are unacceptable for the program, it may just mean that you were too late to the punch.

Also, have fun on your interviews. Hopefully, when you come around, they will still be wining and dining the applicants. 🙂 I've found that the pre-interview dinner is a great time to get the skinny on the program and to really guage whether the residents are truly happy with the program.

Peace,
John

 

[DCBigBAPS]

I recently got back my step 2 score. I had a pretty solid step 1 score and scored about 2 points higher on step 2. I almost feel like I shouldn't say what they are because many people on this forum become offended although it wasn't that high. My only question is whether to release the score or not. The PD at my school had mentioned that I should go ahead, but I am still debating. I personally feel my step 1 was high enough that they won't worry about my step 2... but then again if they ask if i took step 2, I don't want them to wonder why I didn't report it.

Oh the silly things we worry about.

 

[Bertelman]

DC...

Probably could find a better answer on the ERAS forum, but here's my thought. If Step 1 is "pretty solid", and your Step 2 is actually a touch better, why in the world wouldn't you release it? How will it hurt you to release the score? I don't believe you will gain any advantage in your situation by withholding. It likely won't hurt you, either, but if I were gambling on which were more likely, my $100 would be on you getting burned by this.

p.s. we don't mock (you) because of your score. We mock the fact that you can post to this forum with doubts and anxiety, when (your) score is one standard deviation above the nat'l average. If these feelings correlated to scores, I would have pulled my hair out by now. Don't get caught up in the hype. You'll match.