- Joined
- Sep 30, 2003
- Messages
- 163
- Reaction score
- 0
Transition from engineering to biology
- Thread starter mmapcpro
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2003
- Messages
- 866
- Reaction score
- 2
I wouldn't worry about the transition at all. A little about me: I had two years of straight mechanical engineering, then, after my soph year, decided to pursue medicine. I did well in engineering but hated everything associated with it. I am now a straight biology major and will graduate in December. If I haven't heard from a med school by the start of January, I will come back in the spring and finish off a biomedical engineering degree.
One thing you will find out right away...most biology majors are just plain dumb (I have had friends at other universities tell me that this is true at their schools too). There are some very bright people in biology and they go on to get PhDs and MDs, but the rest...who knows. McDonalds? So, this will be good for the curve in your classes. Whereas most of the people in engineering are fairly smart and competing for grades can be competitive, there are barely enough intelligent people in biology to take the As (this changes some once you hit upper division/grad lvl classes, but still isn't bad). This will be especially true in your intro classes as you will be older and more experienced then the new bio majors.
Yes, you will have to learn how to study completly differently. In engineering, if your school is like mine, studying just consists of doing a couple homework problems over a VERY narrow range of material which may or may not take a decent amount of time. If you can do the homework problems, then you know you will be fine on the test. No "studying". In biology, you probably won't have any homework, which is VERY nice, but will need to keep up on readings at least a little then do a lot of hardcore book time before exams. You can reason your way through more things then you would initially think in biology (at least on well written exams).
You appear to be a strong student. I don't care what SDN people say, intelligent people tend to have strong memories as well as analytical ability (if someone really is smart, they will have both for sure...and don't docs need that?). If you were strong in engineering, you will be strong in biology. I find biology 10000X more interesting then anything in engineering and gladly give up some amount of analytical thinking to study it.
You should look into some biophysics courses too...you can put some of your math/programming background to good use. Find a good grad lvl x-ray crystalography or biophysical chemistry course... You will need to probably look at grad lvl courses for that kind of stuff, as most undergrad biology majors couldn't do math/physics to save their life.
I don't feel like I have given you any real "tips" or anything, but I hope that at least you can have some encouragment. Once again. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT BIOLOGY! Good luck! If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.
One thing you will find out right away...most biology majors are just plain dumb (I have had friends at other universities tell me that this is true at their schools too). There are some very bright people in biology and they go on to get PhDs and MDs, but the rest...who knows. McDonalds? So, this will be good for the curve in your classes. Whereas most of the people in engineering are fairly smart and competing for grades can be competitive, there are barely enough intelligent people in biology to take the As (this changes some once you hit upper division/grad lvl classes, but still isn't bad). This will be especially true in your intro classes as you will be older and more experienced then the new bio majors.
Yes, you will have to learn how to study completly differently. In engineering, if your school is like mine, studying just consists of doing a couple homework problems over a VERY narrow range of material which may or may not take a decent amount of time. If you can do the homework problems, then you know you will be fine on the test. No "studying". In biology, you probably won't have any homework, which is VERY nice, but will need to keep up on readings at least a little then do a lot of hardcore book time before exams. You can reason your way through more things then you would initially think in biology (at least on well written exams).
You appear to be a strong student. I don't care what SDN people say, intelligent people tend to have strong memories as well as analytical ability (if someone really is smart, they will have both for sure...and don't docs need that?). If you were strong in engineering, you will be strong in biology. I find biology 10000X more interesting then anything in engineering and gladly give up some amount of analytical thinking to study it.
You should look into some biophysics courses too...you can put some of your math/programming background to good use. Find a good grad lvl x-ray crystalography or biophysical chemistry course... You will need to probably look at grad lvl courses for that kind of stuff, as most undergrad biology majors couldn't do math/physics to save their life.
I don't feel like I have given you any real "tips" or anything, but I hope that at least you can have some encouragment. Once again. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT BIOLOGY! Good luck! If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2003
- Messages
- 866
- Reaction score
- 2
Hah! That is the same at my school. I have a lot of friends who I started engineering with who graduated this past May. None of them have found the solid jobs promised with an engineering degree (this is at a top 10 program and friends with 3.8+). Heck, a buddy of mine who was a 4.0 ME with intern experience couldn't even land a job. He is now in the peace corps.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2003
- Messages
- 1,501
- Reaction score
- 9
The underlying vibe I get in many of the SDN threads is that one precludes the other. Why can?t you be good at difficult conceptualization and memorization? My concern with bio was that it would be boring. I enjoyed studying engineering and hated memorizing. But, it?s not been that bad. The learning styles are different, that?s all.
The things that made you successful in engineering (intelligence and ambition) will also make you successful in bio. Like anything, there will be a slight learning curve while you adjust. I?m taking human anatomy/lab right now from one of the most feared instructors around and I?ll admit that I haven?t put this much time into a class since taking graduate microelectronic engineering courses years ago. Is it boring? Sometimes, but not as bad as I thought it would be. There is some satisfaction in being able to name every bone in the body and knowing origins/insertions for most major muscles. I'm also not working nearly as hard as the rest of the class and still scraping by with a low A at the moment. You?ll be fine.
BTW, I?m very sorry to hear about your baby. I nearly lost my boy when he was only 3 days old and ended up spending over a week in PICU with him. I can?t even imagine what you have been through. Almost losing a child was hard enough. Good luck with everything.
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2001
- Messages
- 892
- Reaction score
- 0
there is a lot of validity into what they are saying, bio involves a good deal of memorizing (though also understanding at times).
BUT, even if they are trying to scare you, don't let them! you can get used to it. You just got to give it a try. That's what it takes, adjusting your styles and getting used to different study methods. I did it, and believe me, i'd have a MUCH easier time in the toughest math or engineering class, but i got through cell bio and the rest.
And.. in neuroscience, you can grin at all the people who are struggling to apply V=IR (just be polite when with them, b/c they do think it's tough). 🙂
Plus, medical school will be impressed by your ability to suceed with engineering, they think it's tough!
BUT, even if they are trying to scare you, don't let them! you can get used to it. You just got to give it a try. That's what it takes, adjusting your styles and getting used to different study methods. I did it, and believe me, i'd have a MUCH easier time in the toughest math or engineering class, but i got through cell bio and the rest.
And.. in neuroscience, you can grin at all the people who are struggling to apply V=IR (just be polite when with them, b/c they do think it's tough). 🙂
Plus, medical school will be impressed by your ability to suceed with engineering, they think it's tough!
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2002
- Messages
- 309
- Reaction score
- 0
You can't be serious when you say this(at least I am hoping)!!!
Is it true that he probably either A) wanted more money they they would pay, or B) He would only work in a particular area. If you look nationwide I'd say any engineer with a 4.0 in ME could get a job if he so chose.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2002
- Messages
- 309
- Reaction score
- 0
Well you do make some good points, but as far as the moving every 3-8 years, many times thats their own decision. Where I am co-oping, most of the engineers have been there on 12 years average and don't plan to leave anytime soon.
Either way, I think I want to switch to medicine so none of it matters much to me.
😀 😀
Either way, I think I want to switch to medicine so none of it matters much to me.
😀 😀
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2002
- Messages
- 309
- Reaction score
- 0
What year are you in and how are your stats?? I'm going to be a Junior when I go back to school next fall with my 3.3 gpa. I think if I get it to at least a 3.5 in EE and a decent MCAT i have a good chance.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2003
- Messages
- 1,501
- Reaction score
- 9
They underestimated how serious my boy was and treated us like we were over concerned parents the entire first night (he had a high fever which is bad for infants). The chief resident was real ass and is still infamous in that hospital. Anyway, he seemed to be struggling with his breathing, so they gave him some O2 through a nasal canula (sp?) to appease us. In the morning a nurse took it off to take blood pressure, heart rate, ect. The lights were really dim and I commented that he wasn't putting up the typical fuss and quickly turned on the lights. He had stopped breathing and gone blue through the mid section and lips. A code Leo went out and we were kicked out of the room. He came back real quick once the O2 was back on. But what would have happened if we had been asleep w/o the O2.
The PICU staff was great, but when we went back to the main floor, someone (me or wife) always had to be with him because the damn nurses kept taking his O2 off to do stuff😡 I chewed one out and reported her after she did it for the 3rd time. His O2 saturation would go from 96% down to 70% quickly without the O2 and he would start to pass out. I couldn't believe how nonchalant some of these nurses were about it! Anyway $29,000 and about a hundred tests later, we found out he had echo virus #6 (the flu). My wife had a fever before and during delivery and we asked if it was an issue. No one was concerned
😕
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2002
- Messages
- 473
- Reaction score
- 2
Switching out of engineering?!
Sad.
Engineering has taken a downward turn however, although I was interested in going into academic engineering if I stayed in that career path. Industry is definitley sucking.
As for jobs, a lot of my friends who I graduated with in May got jobs (top 5 program). Sure, it wasn't the 1999 starting pays, but they were getting in the mid 40's to low 50's. Some still can't find jobs, but it is definitely all about looking nationally for a job now (those who haven't are unemployed).
To the person questioning a profession when you have to constantly look nationally........look at medicine. Unless you're in a large city, you might be hard pressed to find a job as certain specialists. Even so, certain areas are clogged with physicians (Bay area and new england). ER and radiology practicies have been fired by hospitals, and I'm guessing its hard to find a new hospital to contract with in your area (since some other practice is already contracted with them).
I'm dang proud to be an engineer, although I feel like a turncoat by entering medicine.
Sad.
Engineering has taken a downward turn however, although I was interested in going into academic engineering if I stayed in that career path. Industry is definitley sucking.
As for jobs, a lot of my friends who I graduated with in May got jobs (top 5 program). Sure, it wasn't the 1999 starting pays, but they were getting in the mid 40's to low 50's. Some still can't find jobs, but it is definitely all about looking nationally for a job now (those who haven't are unemployed).
To the person questioning a profession when you have to constantly look nationally........look at medicine. Unless you're in a large city, you might be hard pressed to find a job as certain specialists. Even so, certain areas are clogged with physicians (Bay area and new england). ER and radiology practicies have been fired by hospitals, and I'm guessing its hard to find a new hospital to contract with in your area (since some other practice is already contracted with them).
I'm dang proud to be an engineer, although I feel like a turncoat by entering medicine.
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
I really am sorry for your loss.
It sounds like she may have been in Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA).
Here is a definition:
"Severe, out-of-control diabetes (high blood sugar) that needs emergency treatment. DKA is caused by a profound lack of circulating insulin. This may happen because of illness, taking too little insulin, or getting too little exercise. The body starts using stored fat for energy, and ketone bodies (acids) build up in the blood.
Ketoacidosis starts slowly and builds up. The signs include nausea and vomiting, which can lead to loss of water from the body, stomach pain, and deep and rapid breathing. Other signs are a flushed face, dry skin and mouth, a fruity breath odor, a rapid and weak pulse, and low blood pressure. If the person is not given fluids and insulin right away, ketoacidosis can lead to coma and even death."
http://www.childrenwithdiabetes.com/dictionary/d.htm
It sounds to me (please keep in mind I'm still in college, but do have diabetes myself), that she was an undiagnosised Type 1 Diabetic, and they missed it when she was admitted. The fact that they didn't make the connection between DKA and her Blood sugar being 500 (if this is in fact what happens) sounds to me like malpractice.
From what you say, it appears as though she had plenty of symptoms, and the 500 mg/dl blood sugar should of been SCREAMING in their ears that she was in DKA and in need of insulin and fluids.
Frankly I'm shocked at the level of care for diabetics in today's medical system, and is part of my motivation for becoming a doctor myself.
Again I truly am sorry about your loss, and think you might want to relook at what happened, maybe with a lawyer. It makes me wonder if the doctor was so upset because he knew he had made a serious mistake.
But again, its just my opinion.
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2000
- Messages
- 6,276
- Reaction score
- 14
I agree. I'm getting my hands dirty with this a posteriori filth called medicine.
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
I wasn't really aware from what you had said originally that the ER staff had given her insulin/fluids, but it does sound like they did everything they could do.
The thing that gets me upset is the pediatrition. He doesn't sound like he did his job properly.
If I were you, I'd take all your information to a lawyer who specializes in this type of thing. I know this sounds strange from one aspiring doctor to another, but if this guy is not doing his job, he's likely to do the same thing to other people's children.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2003
- Messages
- 866
- Reaction score
- 2
A) no offers for actual engineering jobs
B) as far as I know, he didn't really care where he worked
he did apply around, but he didn't look quite as hard as some other people (like my other friends who have been activily looking since graduation) the job market just sucks for engineering. My dad is in engineering managment and has a good idea about that kind of stuff...he agrees.
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
Bolus actually means when they give something in a large dose, instead of a slow steady dose. Insulin after meals is often given in what is called a "Bolus dose" because its just a big shot of insulin.
If I am reading the chart properly, it looks like they were giving a bolus of fluids, because she was so dehydrated. I could be wrong, but I didn't see insulin ordered anywhere on either chart.
I could try and intreprid what I believe is being said on the chart, but I really wouldn't feel comfortable doing it, because like I said I'm just in college. I'm sure that there are plenty of people here though that could help.
It probably would do better starting a new post, and possibly in a different forum than this one.
I really am sorry about what happened to you and your daughter. Hopefully someone can help here, and if not, maybe a malpractice lawyer could take a look at it.
If I am reading the chart properly, it looks like they were giving a bolus of fluids, because she was so dehydrated. I could be wrong, but I didn't see insulin ordered anywhere on either chart.
I could try and intreprid what I believe is being said on the chart, but I really wouldn't feel comfortable doing it, because like I said I'm just in college. I'm sure that there are plenty of people here though that could help.
It probably would do better starting a new post, and possibly in a different forum than this one.
I really am sorry about what happened to you and your daughter. Hopefully someone can help here, and if not, maybe a malpractice lawyer could take a look at it.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 177
- Reaction score
- 1
mmapcpro, I'm very sorry for your loss. I don't think anyone can really understand what you went through...
As for engineering, I see no reason to switch out. You have a lot of work done already, and can fully accomplish everything you need for a career in medicine while completing your engineering degree. This way you have a real profession (a simple bio degree, or even worse, pre-med studies, are essentially useless). It may be tough to find a specific engineering job at the moment but the skills you learn in engineering school are always in demand. You can only market these skills with the degree, however.
And why throw so much work away?
As for the other comments, people in engineering are not nasty or unlikable. Perhaps not the most social, but nowhere near as backstabbing as many other disciplines... Either way, a stupid reason to change majors.
As for engineering, I see no reason to switch out. You have a lot of work done already, and can fully accomplish everything you need for a career in medicine while completing your engineering degree. This way you have a real profession (a simple bio degree, or even worse, pre-med studies, are essentially useless). It may be tough to find a specific engineering job at the moment but the skills you learn in engineering school are always in demand. You can only market these skills with the degree, however.
And why throw so much work away?
As for the other comments, people in engineering are not nasty or unlikable. Perhaps not the most social, but nowhere near as backstabbing as many other disciplines... Either way, a stupid reason to change majors.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,226
- Reaction score
- 17
As grateful as I am for a pre-med to give advice, it is obvious you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Stop trying to feed incorrect knowledge to this gentleman who is going through one of the biggest stressors a human being can undergo. Your lack of insight and knowledge is disgusting, as well as pushing him to "jump the gun" and hire an attorney.
Q
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
So what did I say that is incorrect? How is it obvious that I have no idea what I am talking about?
A bolus is a large dose of something.
I don't see anywhere on that chart that insulin was given.
568 mg/dl is an extremely high blood sugar, for nothing to be done.
I repeated several times that I am just in college, and that he should have the medical records reviewed by a professional. His child died, and it appears as though he isn't satisfied with the level of care. I believe everyone who has questions about the care a loved one received has the right to ask questions from professionals.
So I'll ask again, how was anything I said be shown to lack insight or knowledge? Not that I insisted that I had insight or knowledge about the subject, just that it seemed suspecious to me, and that he should have it checked out. I'm diabetic, and have been in DKA before, and it appears to me that his daughter was as well. Based on the chart, it doesn't say anywhere that they gave her insulin, which to me seems strange.
Is it that you're just upset because I said he should ask a lawyer to look over what happened? I can tell you, if it was my daughter, and I had questions about the care she received, you better believe I'd have many different people taking a look at it. I never said he should hire an attorney and sue anyone, just to have someone experienced with this type of thing look things over.
Instead of trying to tear down what I said, why don't you offer a better explanation to this gentlemen.
A bolus is a large dose of something.
I don't see anywhere on that chart that insulin was given.
568 mg/dl is an extremely high blood sugar, for nothing to be done.
I repeated several times that I am just in college, and that he should have the medical records reviewed by a professional. His child died, and it appears as though he isn't satisfied with the level of care. I believe everyone who has questions about the care a loved one received has the right to ask questions from professionals.
So I'll ask again, how was anything I said be shown to lack insight or knowledge? Not that I insisted that I had insight or knowledge about the subject, just that it seemed suspecious to me, and that he should have it checked out. I'm diabetic, and have been in DKA before, and it appears to me that his daughter was as well. Based on the chart, it doesn't say anywhere that they gave her insulin, which to me seems strange.
Is it that you're just upset because I said he should ask a lawyer to look over what happened? I can tell you, if it was my daughter, and I had questions about the care she received, you better believe I'd have many different people taking a look at it. I never said he should hire an attorney and sue anyone, just to have someone experienced with this type of thing look things over.
Instead of trying to tear down what I said, why don't you offer a better explanation to this gentlemen.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,226
- Reaction score
- 17
How many 3 week olds come in presenting in florid DKA? Her hyperglycemia is a lab value, not a diagnosis.
While true that she was acidotic, that was likely from
A) MetHb
B) Respiratory Failure
C) Cardiogenic Shock
D) Sepsis
This is a tough case, but I believe standard of care was met. A neonate presenting with a MetHb of >50 is indeed QUITE rare, and undoubtedly unexpected, yet the correct measures were undertaken, but unfortunately were to no avail.
Q
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
I actually look at my diabetes in a similar way, that it happened for a reason. It really gave me a wake-up call to re-examine my life, and where I was headed in many directions.
I actually tell people its one of the best things thats ever happened to me.
If something I said did upset you, or I did give you some incorrect info, I really am sorry. I was giving my opinion, and as a diabetic, I am particularly sensative to people mistreating them (even if it was just my intrepration. I do find it strange that they never gave insulin, but there could very well be a reason they didn't.
I have no intention of getting into some fight with the other poster. I felt what he said was rather rude, but maybe he's just a rude guy (won't be the first or the last I've met).
Either way, I really am sorry for your loss, and wish you all the best getting into and OUT of Dental School 🙂
I actually tell people its one of the best things thats ever happened to me.
If something I said did upset you, or I did give you some incorrect info, I really am sorry. I was giving my opinion, and as a diabetic, I am particularly sensative to people mistreating them (even if it was just my intrepration. I do find it strange that they never gave insulin, but there could very well be a reason they didn't.
I have no intention of getting into some fight with the other poster. I felt what he said was rather rude, but maybe he's just a rude guy (won't be the first or the last I've met).
Either way, I really am sorry for your loss, and wish you all the best getting into and OUT of Dental School 🙂
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
I never stated that hyperglycemia was a diagnosis. What I said was, I find it strange they didn't give his child insulin with a BS of 568 mg/dl. I also don't understand how a child with that BS couldn't be in DKA.
I'd be curious how at that level, normal cellular metabolism would be occuring, and not only be burning fat. If this BS had been present for a sustained time, I'd assume a fair amount of ketones would be present in her blood.
How many 3 week olds come in with that?
I have no idea.
All that I've been saying was, that if he has some questions about this, that he should have her records examined by some professionals. I offered my opinion being a diabetic, that I found it strange that they didn't give insulin. Maybe there is a reason insulin wasn't given, I'm not sure.
Its true that her acidosis could be caused by a number of things. I'd also suspect having a blood sugar 5 times normal might also contribute to that.
But like I said, I'd talk to a professinal, and not a pre-med student, or a 1st year resident.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,226
- Reaction score
- 17
But you ARE giving the diagnosis of DKA. Did you notice that they also gave an amp of D5? And with a shock-picture going on, that catecholamines will be released?
The only reason I'm jumping down your throat is you immediately assumed that something was missed and that "I can't believe they didn't give insulin, you should have this looked at by a malpractice lawyer." How many three week olds do you know with IDDM? How many two year olds? An infintessimally small #.
Q, DO
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
First of all, I'm not giving a diagnosis of anything, I'm not in a position to do so. Second, not being in med school, I don't understand what epinephrine, norepinephrine, and dopamine being released has to do with not administing the child with insulin.
I don't know if the catecholamines would be enough to raise her BS that high. For the umpteenth time, all I said was that it was suspecious to me. I'd have some professionals look at it if you were unsure. With all the problems she was having, 560+ BS to ME doesn't seem like something they should just not treat. Am I wrong, and I right?
I don't know, as I've said 500 times.
I don't understand why insulin wasn't administered. Maybe you do, care to tell us why?
If this gentleman has a concern about the care his daughter received, I do believe he should have it look at by a malpractice lawyer. Just because I though it looked suspecious doesn't mean it is, it just means it was to me.
Having someone contact a lawyer doesn't mean there will be a suit, or anything else. It just means they can go over it to ensure everything that could be done, was done. Whats wrong with that?
I've already answered this question. The fact that she couldn't gain weight, and her symptoms got worse when they upped her feedings, to ME seems suspecious to suggest diabetes. I'm just a college student though, as I've said 500 times, not an endocrinologist.
Why do you get so upset when I mention he speak to a Lawyer about it? I never said file suit, or threaten doctors, just have a professional look at it. Getting an experts opinion in my book is never wrong.
I admit that I don't fully understand what an amp of D5 would do to this patient, or the catecholamines, but I never admitted to.
Again instead of trying to "jump down my throat", why not explain the situation, so myself, this gentlemen, and other reading can learn something, instead of have us bicker back and forth.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,226
- Reaction score
- 17
*sigh*
The hyperglycemia was the LEAST of this poor patient's worries.
In fact, insulin is not even the drug of choice in DKA. It is most definately not the first durg/therapeutic measure you rush to. But I suppose you knew that, right?
The hyperglycemia was LIKELY secondary to other causes, i.e., stress hormone release, the D5, etc.
What do lawyers know about neonatal sepsis, or MetHb > 50%? Are they considered experts in this area? A resounding NO. If you REALLY wanted to get a good idea of what happened, get an independent expert. Look in the phone book for a Pediatric Intensivist. The malpractice lawyers have ONE goal, and that is to win a lawsuit. They are completely biased.
Trust me, besides being an Emergency Medicine Resident, I have over four years of medical malpractice experience.
Telling someone MULTIPLE times to "go see a lawyer," "relook with a laywer," "have a lawyer look at it," and "maybe a malpractice lawyer" seems to REALLY be emphasizing that an egregious error was made.
Finding a lawyer is NOT always the answer to everything. To jump the gun and suggest he hires a lawyer is viscerally sickening. I hope one day if you ever become a physician you will see the greed that blurs their vision.
Q, DO
The hyperglycemia was the LEAST of this poor patient's worries.
In fact, insulin is not even the drug of choice in DKA. It is most definately not the first durg/therapeutic measure you rush to. But I suppose you knew that, right?
The hyperglycemia was LIKELY secondary to other causes, i.e., stress hormone release, the D5, etc.
What do lawyers know about neonatal sepsis, or MetHb > 50%? Are they considered experts in this area? A resounding NO. If you REALLY wanted to get a good idea of what happened, get an independent expert. Look in the phone book for a Pediatric Intensivist. The malpractice lawyers have ONE goal, and that is to win a lawsuit. They are completely biased.
Trust me, besides being an Emergency Medicine Resident, I have over four years of medical malpractice experience.
Telling someone MULTIPLE times to "go see a lawyer," "relook with a laywer," "have a lawyer look at it," and "maybe a malpractice lawyer" seems to REALLY be emphasizing that an egregious error was made.
Finding a lawyer is NOT always the answer to everything. To jump the gun and suggest he hires a lawyer is viscerally sickening. I hope one day if you ever become a physician you will see the greed that blurs their vision.
Q, DO
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
I'm finished with you.
A Malpractice attorney would have a host of experts to consult with. Not all attorneys are blood-thirsty vampires, who want to suck people dry. Maybe he speak to another doctor like you suggested too. I say talk to both, whats it going to hurt. Why you have to be mean-spirited about the whole thing is beyond me.
You are a rude person. I never claimed to be an expert on anything, but you continue to be condasending and a jerk. If you looked, this guy asked you a question (that I can't answer by the way), but instead of answering it, you have to try and get at me.
I'm sure keeping that attitude will serve you well in the rest of your life, good luck with that.
I never suggested he hire a lawyer to sue anyone, for the third time I believe. Maybe if you would listen to what I say, instead of see the word "lawyer" and assuming I'm saying to go on a sueing spree, you might understand.
I've never once mentioned money, only the concern that if something was done wrong, the physician who did it shouldn't be allowed to do it to others.
While I might have as much medical experience as you, I sure have plenty of people experience to know you are not a very nice person.
You've twisted me into some money-grubbing know it all, which I feel is extremely inaccurate. All I did was express my concerns to this fellow, offer him my sympathes, and suggests some ideas to further investigate her daughter's case. He can listen to what I say, or just ignore it.
If it makes you feel better about yourself to lunge at me like this, then have a ball....I could care less.
A Malpractice attorney would have a host of experts to consult with. Not all attorneys are blood-thirsty vampires, who want to suck people dry. Maybe he speak to another doctor like you suggested too. I say talk to both, whats it going to hurt. Why you have to be mean-spirited about the whole thing is beyond me.
You are a rude person. I never claimed to be an expert on anything, but you continue to be condasending and a jerk. If you looked, this guy asked you a question (that I can't answer by the way), but instead of answering it, you have to try and get at me.
I'm sure keeping that attitude will serve you well in the rest of your life, good luck with that.
I never suggested he hire a lawyer to sue anyone, for the third time I believe. Maybe if you would listen to what I say, instead of see the word "lawyer" and assuming I'm saying to go on a sueing spree, you might understand.
I've never once mentioned money, only the concern that if something was done wrong, the physician who did it shouldn't be allowed to do it to others.
While I might have as much medical experience as you, I sure have plenty of people experience to know you are not a very nice person.
You've twisted me into some money-grubbing know it all, which I feel is extremely inaccurate. All I did was express my concerns to this fellow, offer him my sympathes, and suggests some ideas to further investigate her daughter's case. He can listen to what I say, or just ignore it.
If it makes you feel better about yourself to lunge at me like this, then have a ball....I could care less.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,226
- Reaction score
- 17
*sigh* Even in my first post, I said I thought it was good that you offered your advice. I also stated, however, that what you did offer was incorrect and, yes, jumped the gun when it came to stating "go see a lawyer."
I worked as a medical malpractice paralegal during my four years of medical school, and continue to do so now. I have seen both sides, the defense and the plaintiffs. I do know what happens.
By going to a malpractice lawyer, they will convince you to pursue a lawsuit. Believe you me.
I mentioned perhaps having a physician review it. A) They'll be able to understand the scenario, and B) He'll get an answer right there.
When a malpractice lawyer gets his hand on this, they send the chart to one of their expert witnesses, and explicitly asks them to find a breach in the standard of care. They don't necessarily ask what the OP is asking. As a college student, you are likely naive to the goings on of the whole tort issue. That's fine, I was too.
Your statement that he should probably post his message on another thread was a good idea, as it is seen here, in our conversation, that a pre-med forum is not the place for speculating (on very little knowledge) and advising (on false knowledge). That is why I jumped down your throat.
I've read your other posts. I know your background. But medicine is a very 3-dimensional world. I am still learning it.
Treat the patient, not the number. Hard for diabetics to learn, as you strive to get your FBS down and your a1c down, as those are the ultimate goals.
Not everyone with a sugar of 500+ is in DKA, and not everyone needs insulin.
And I never said you were money-grubbing, or a know it all. Just a bit misinformed and looking through a narrow visual field.
Q, DO
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
My point is, I never claimed to be an expert about anything on his daughter's chart. I told him I thought it was strange they didn't give his daughter insulin. Following that statement, I said but I'm just a college student, I'd see someone who knows what they are talking about. Oh and I told him what a Bolus was.
My point is that you keep jumping down my throat, quite unwarranted. There are 1000 different ways to handle a situation, and you chose yours. I believe the way you handled this one speaks about your personality. I never gave him bad advice, and simply offered a college student's opinion, in a college student's forum. I also recommend that he post about this in a different forum, where others might be better inclined to help.
I never claimed to know all the details about his daughter. I've said repeatedly to talk to someone knowledgeable, and that I was just specualating with him about her conditions.
The fact that you feel the need to jump down my throat, is what I have issue with. Nothing I said led him a stray, and I've had nothing but empathy and respect for his struggle.
Personally I know someone who had a malpractice issue, spoke with a lawyer, and got the issue resolved (without a suit).
If he'd like to talk to another physician too, or exclusively, obviously he is free to do so.
The issue I have with you, is your attitude.
My point is that you keep jumping down my throat, quite unwarranted. There are 1000 different ways to handle a situation, and you chose yours. I believe the way you handled this one speaks about your personality. I never gave him bad advice, and simply offered a college student's opinion, in a college student's forum. I also recommend that he post about this in a different forum, where others might be better inclined to help.
I never claimed to know all the details about his daughter. I've said repeatedly to talk to someone knowledgeable, and that I was just specualating with him about her conditions.
The fact that you feel the need to jump down my throat, is what I have issue with. Nothing I said led him a stray, and I've had nothing but empathy and respect for his struggle.
Personally I know someone who had a malpractice issue, spoke with a lawyer, and got the issue resolved (without a suit).
If he'd like to talk to another physician too, or exclusively, obviously he is free to do so.
The issue I have with you, is your attitude.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,226
- Reaction score
- 17
I thought you said you were done with me?!
🙄
Q, DO
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
I am done with you.
PS Who said you get the last word?
PPS Do you know what I meant by my statement "I am done with you"? Obviously not, but I can tell you this, it doesn't mean I will never again respond to something you say, if I so choose.
What it does mean, is that I am finished discussing this with you. I don't like the way you've been condescending, and I don't like your attitude.
You can go on being condescending, or having a poor attitude towards people, I really don't care. However I am pretty new on the board, and its good to know about this sooner, rather than later.
PS Who said you get the last word?
PPS Do you know what I meant by my statement "I am done with you"? Obviously not, but I can tell you this, it doesn't mean I will never again respond to something you say, if I so choose.
What it does mean, is that I am finished discussing this with you. I don't like the way you've been condescending, and I don't like your attitude.
You can go on being condescending, or having a poor attitude towards people, I really don't care. However I am pretty new on the board, and its good to know about this sooner, rather than later.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,226
- Reaction score
- 17
To mmapcpro-
As you can tell from the last few posts, this thread has deteriorated. But, I hope you feel the concensus that we all are extremely sorry for your loss, and I can easily recognize the pain that you and your wife have experienced. If there can be any good from this, perhaps it is the idea that your goals in life may change, and that you may help people in your own way. If, however, you are looking for more scientific and clinical answers to your original post, I suggest trying the allopathic forum, or even the IM/IM Specialist forum, there you will find more residents with more medical knowledge. As you've seen here, one can easily be mislead... you have to remember the knowledge base of the pre-meds.
We can all hypothesize what happened... but perhaps you can find a pediatric intensivist or someone boarded in IM/Peds at Orlando Regional that may be able to assist you. Finding time to speak with an attending is never easy, but if you approach it with the sincerity that you did here (especially in the first few sentences after getting their attnetion), you may find the answers you need.
And as for Bridaddy, you need to grow a thicker skin, my dear. Cut and paste what you've posted here in this thread, and if you do get into medical school (which I hope you do), graduate, then read it again.
Nothing is more frustrating than having a nurse or a nurse tech explain to the patient what is going on, when in fact they are completely clueless and are telling the patient the wrong information. The patient will confront the physician, but often times, the patient has made up their minds that the physician is incorrect. It is an incredibly frustrating situation. I wanted to nip you in the bud before any more false information was given out.
Now I lay me down to sleep... with 33 hours of straight trauma. I just hope my trauma pager doesn't go off. mmap, I suggest you continue the thread in the allo forum.
Q, DO
As you can tell from the last few posts, this thread has deteriorated. But, I hope you feel the concensus that we all are extremely sorry for your loss, and I can easily recognize the pain that you and your wife have experienced. If there can be any good from this, perhaps it is the idea that your goals in life may change, and that you may help people in your own way. If, however, you are looking for more scientific and clinical answers to your original post, I suggest trying the allopathic forum, or even the IM/IM Specialist forum, there you will find more residents with more medical knowledge. As you've seen here, one can easily be mislead... you have to remember the knowledge base of the pre-meds.
We can all hypothesize what happened... but perhaps you can find a pediatric intensivist or someone boarded in IM/Peds at Orlando Regional that may be able to assist you. Finding time to speak with an attending is never easy, but if you approach it with the sincerity that you did here (especially in the first few sentences after getting their attnetion), you may find the answers you need.
And as for Bridaddy, you need to grow a thicker skin, my dear. Cut and paste what you've posted here in this thread, and if you do get into medical school (which I hope you do), graduate, then read it again.
Nothing is more frustrating than having a nurse or a nurse tech explain to the patient what is going on, when in fact they are completely clueless and are telling the patient the wrong information. The patient will confront the physician, but often times, the patient has made up their minds that the physician is incorrect. It is an incredibly frustrating situation. I wanted to nip you in the bud before any more false information was given out.
Now I lay me down to sleep... with 33 hours of straight trauma. I just hope my trauma pager doesn't go off. mmap, I suggest you continue the thread in the allo forum.
Q, DO
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
Very mature.
My skin is thick enough, thank you. Telling me I am too sensative is no excuse for your rudeness. You were so rude, that even the original poster commented to give me a break.
If I wouldn't have commented, he might never have posted the other thread, and gotten his questions answered. Making fun of me in the other thread, just shows that I was correct about my assumptions.
I'm not a nurse or a nurse-tech. There is no chance in hell that he would take my opinion over a doctor, and rightfully so. He said another physician said something similar to what I said, so obviously its been a concern of his for awhile. I'm sure if he asked a physician he'd talk about what his friend said, not that a college student in the pre-med forum wondered why they didn't give his daugher insulin.
PS and for the record, I don't have to worry about getting my A1C down, its within normal range 😎
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2003
- Messages
- 2,491
- Reaction score
- 130
I'm a pre-med with a bit of training in physiology, and I'm assuming that the number of 3 week olds that have IDDM is extremely low as the disease is manifested by an autoimmune disorder. In an infant that young, I doubt he has much of an immune system at all to even start defending himself, nevermind have a reaction to the ? cells.
As for my response to this whole issue, I understand that you feel strongly about this issue Quinn, but you were a little too harsh on Bridaddy considering he IS only a pre-med and he wasn't intending to be offensive.
My opinion on the matter is that a blood glucose level that high should have either been treated by a) administering insulin b) correcting the problem which was leading to a level this high. (I believe you said something about cortisol, or a "stress hormone release")
However, does a blood sugar level that high not cause problems whether you are diabetic or not? If it's not an issue in non-diabetics, then the level shouldn't have been much of an issue.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2003
- Messages
- 1,501
- Reaction score
- 9
FWIW, the "go get a lawyer" comments really struck a bad cord in me as well. I chose to leave it alone yesterday due to the sensitivity of the post (knowing it would start a flame war). We should probably just let this thread go and if mmapcpro has additional technical questions, he can ask them in a different forum where MD's and DO's can answer.
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
All I said was, that he should talk to professionals, maybe including a lawyer to find answers. I never said to start sueing anyone, or threaten anyone, just that a lawyer could help him better understand what happened.
I said a lot of things thackl, if you want to fix yourself on that one thing, thats your business I guess.
Better advice would of been to just go see a different doctor...fine. I never said I had all the answers, or the best answers. I was just trying to help out this guy. I didn't deserve to be attacked in the manner I was, for offering my opinion and trying to help. I acknowledged the fact that i'm not an expert (I think I've said this in every post), and just pointed out what I thought was strange.
Do I deserve to be nailed to a cross because I suggested he talk to a lawyer? I guess thats your call.
No one has answered my question, as to why insulin wasn't given, I'd still like to know. Regardless if the child was having other issues, why not eliminate the hyperglycemia from the host of problems.
QuinnNSU, you're now on ignore.
Grow Up.
I said a lot of things thackl, if you want to fix yourself on that one thing, thats your business I guess.
Better advice would of been to just go see a different doctor...fine. I never said I had all the answers, or the best answers. I was just trying to help out this guy. I didn't deserve to be attacked in the manner I was, for offering my opinion and trying to help. I acknowledged the fact that i'm not an expert (I think I've said this in every post), and just pointed out what I thought was strange.
Do I deserve to be nailed to a cross because I suggested he talk to a lawyer? I guess thats your call.
No one has answered my question, as to why insulin wasn't given, I'd still like to know. Regardless if the child was having other issues, why not eliminate the hyperglycemia from the host of problems.
QuinnNSU, you're now on ignore.
Grow Up.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,226
- Reaction score
- 17
Oh I'm so hurt. You shouldn't put me on ignore as I've given some great advice on this site to premeds, medical students, and others. Your loss. And... I am not the only SDNer that you have "struck a bad chord with." So I believe you need to grow a thicker skin and grow up yourself.
Hyperbilirubinemia is quite a common issue, and at those levels, it was not what happened. As in the other forum, I think the biggest issue is the MetHbemia, which I cannot explain. Congenital forms do not have such high levels... I would look for environemntal exposure, i.e. at home or with family or friends.
Q, DO
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
He isn't even going to hire a lawyer. Great, they were premature, I've already admitted it probably wasn't the best advice, in retrospect.
So whats your point now, just to try and jump on the bandwagon? You said you weren't going to post, so why did you?
I've already adequately explained why I thought he should talk to a lawyer. I don't need to justify myself to you or anyone. I never told him to sue anyone, just to get the case looked at by professionals.
Honestly though, I could care less how it came across to you, I wasn't talking to you, and you are misintrepreting what I said to begin with.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,226
- Reaction score
- 17
So full of angst. Hope this goes away by the time you become a medical student. <-- I am being serious about that.
Q, DO
Hey guys,
I am a CS major, and decided to pursue medicine about a year ago. I went through all my pre-med classes. I hated biology and any kind of labs. Labs were just busy work and a mindless ***** ( bio major) would be extremely happy doing it, but I for one hated it. So be patient with labs. Biology courses , the ones I took, were so full of memorization it was not even funny. I disagree with how they teach biology, in my school atleast, because you learn absolutely nothing. Its merely a process of swallowing the book and regurgitating it on the exam. Unfortunately there not much you can do about it. Just give it a lot of time.
Contrary to popular belief organic chemistry is not based on memorization at all. As long as you understand that movement of electrons and stability drive a reaction, and the reaction will always result in a more stable product, You can pretty much figure out the outcome of any reaction. I did so well in organic the teacher had to give me A+ and take me out of the curve. So engineering background really helps in most of the pre-med courses, it may even apply to some biology courses i.e genetics, biochemistry etc, but not all.
I guess I have ranted long enough. Hope this helps.
Warmest regards.
I am a CS major, and decided to pursue medicine about a year ago. I went through all my pre-med classes. I hated biology and any kind of labs. Labs were just busy work and a mindless ***** ( bio major) would be extremely happy doing it, but I for one hated it. So be patient with labs. Biology courses , the ones I took, were so full of memorization it was not even funny. I disagree with how they teach biology, in my school atleast, because you learn absolutely nothing. Its merely a process of swallowing the book and regurgitating it on the exam. Unfortunately there not much you can do about it. Just give it a lot of time.
Contrary to popular belief organic chemistry is not based on memorization at all. As long as you understand that movement of electrons and stability drive a reaction, and the reaction will always result in a more stable product, You can pretty much figure out the outcome of any reaction. I did so well in organic the teacher had to give me A+ and take me out of the curve. So engineering background really helps in most of the pre-med courses, it may even apply to some biology courses i.e genetics, biochemistry etc, but not all.
I guess I have ranted long enough. Hope this helps.
Warmest regards.
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,226
- Reaction score
- 17
I agree. I do not think that organic is rote memorization... I think if you go into orgo with that attitude, you will marginally pass.
I got an A- and then a C+ in orgo... but when I reviewed orgo for the MCAT, I did very well on it... because FINALLY I understood the whole electron placement/movement, and that made all the difference in the world. I actually learned to like orgo once I understood it (instead of memorizing it).
Q, DO
I got an A- and then a C+ in orgo... but when I reviewed orgo for the MCAT, I did very well on it... because FINALLY I understood the whole electron placement/movement, and that made all the difference in the world. I actually learned to like orgo once I understood it (instead of memorizing it).
Q, DO
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2002
- Messages
- 8,706
- Reaction score
- 2
I agree you'll do fine. I majored in civil engineering and I'm handling it just fine. the hardest part is trying to keep yourself interested while memorizing. much harder to motivate to memorize than to master concepts. that and the amount of info you'll have to memorize in college is nothing compared to med school.
why change majors? med schools look at engineers favorably, there wasn't a single interview I went to where it wasn't a plus.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 946
- Reaction score
- 1
agreed
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 833
- Reaction score
- 0
I don't think what I've said was BS.
I suppose the defensiveness was my first reaction to what I perceived as people treating me rather unfairly. Based on what I've learned since about neonatal care reading the OP's thread in the allopathic forum, what I suggested seems pretty silly. As for the lawyer, I did have a friend who had a concern with some care, and had a lawyer look over it, and said that everything that could be done, was done. When I suggested the OP ask a lawyer to look over the case, that was all I thought was warranted, no suits, nor anything else. Just getting a professional's idea (or his expert's idea).
Quinn has a lot more experience with malpractice lawyers than I (obviously, she's worked for one for 4 years), and said that most tend to push people towards a suit, even if it was unwarranted. My experience was different, and was why I suggested what I did. Either way, it doesn't appear that the OP is headed in that direction anyways.
But you're absoluetely right, and this is why I've stopped discussing it. The thread has degenerated, mainly because of my defensiveness.
I feel like some people were a bit rude in their communications with me, but hey, thats life. Not everyone is going to be your best friend, I can accept that.
Ultimately though, mmapcpro is getting some great info over in the Allopathic forum, that I hope helps him to better understand what happened to his daughter, which was the only reason I started posting in this thread.
