Treating HTN patients.

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Drabuisa

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I'm not sure about other schools, but the professors at my school go nuts about medical consults and using anesthetic w/o epi when it comes to treating patients that are barely at stage I hypertension. Does anyone know the exact numbers as far as the mmHg increase that occurs when a person is given 1 cartridge of 2% lidocaine w/ epi 1:100,000? I feel like dental school is taking it a little to far when it comes to turning away patients with high blood pressure.
 
I'm not sure about other schools, but the professors at my school go nuts about medical consults and using anesthetic w/o epi when it comes to treating patients that are barely at stage I hypertension. Does anyone know the exact numbers as far as the mmHg increase that occurs when a person is given 1 cartridge of 2% lidocaine w/ epi 1:100,000? I feel like dental school is taking it a little to far when it comes to turning away patients with high blood pressure.

My school was the exact same way. Then you went to the OMFS clinic and the attendings were much more lenient. I don't know if there are studies to show the exact mmHg increase with local, but I'm sure it varies from person to person. I think the dental school community is probably more worried about the other conditions that may be causing the hypertension and feels like that deems a med consult. Use good judgment because BP is just one measurement. If your patient can walk into the dental school and back to your chair without wheezing, sweating, looking like death, it should be ok. There are plenty of other things out in the world that can kill people with HTN more than our local....like a treadmill.

Jump through the hoops of dental school, but please don't send out med consults when you are in private practice for a BP of 130/85. We don't need to give anyone ammunition for the dental bashing.
 
Get profound anesthesia with a good vasoconstrictor, good injection technique, and multiple negative aspirations per carpule and you'll cause less pain, less endogenous epinephrine release, and less stress on the heart.

I had a doc in dental school refer out a patient for extraction because he was taking 81mg aspirin. I read someone on dentaltown who was pissed that the MD wouldn't take an INR for his pt who was on plavix. There are plenty of dentists out there who don't appreciate the medicine of dentistry...
 
Get profound anesthesia with a good vasoconstrictor, good injection technique, and multiple negative aspirations per carpule and you'll cause less pain, less endogenous epinephrine release, and less stress on the heart.

I had a doc in dental school refer out a patient for extraction because he was taking 81mg aspirin. I read someone on dentaltown who was pissed that the MD wouldn't take an INR for his pt who was on plavix. There are plenty of dentists out there who don't appreciate the medicine of dentistry...

This is an embarassment to dentists everywhere.
 
the MD wouldn't take an INR for his pt who was on plavix. There are plenty of dentists out there who don't appreciate the medicine of dentistry...

INR not really useful for testing on a drug geared at the platelet system so the MD wasn't out of bounds here.

The INR is going to be good for testing Vitamin K dependent clotting factors. In other words drugs/diseases that tap that area.
 
INR not really useful for testing on a drug geared at the platelet system so the MD wasn't out of bounds here.

The INR is going to be good for testing Vitamin K dependent clotting factors. In other words drugs/diseases that tap that area.

lol. his point exactly.
 
Dental anesthesia with 1:100000 epi injected in soft tissue will have a negligible effect on BP, assuming you're aspirating negatively. Managing the stress of your patient by administering a painless injection will have far more of an effect on the BP than the epi.

My personal guidelines..
BP > 160/95 I'll limit myself to 3 carps
BP > 180/100 I'll limit myself to 2 carps and monitor BP periodically - defer elective procedures
BP > 200/110 No procedures, refer to ER

Hup
 
Dental anesthesia with 1:100000 epi injected in soft tissue will have a negligible effect on BP, assuming you're aspirating negatively. Managing the stress of your patient by administering a painless injection will have far more of an effect on the BP than the epi.

My personal guidelines..
BP > 160/95 I'll limit myself to 3 carps
BP > 180/100 I'll limit myself to 2 carps and monitor BP periodically - defer elective procedures
BP > 200/110 No procedures, refer to ER

Hup

I agree...Add em up and if under 300 you're ok to go.
 
Thanks for all the replies! I recently spoke with an oral surgeon and he was saying that after and injection of lidocaine w/epi 1:100,000 you can expect an increase in bp of about 15-20mmHg. Don't know how true that is.
 
Thanks for all the replies! I recently spoke with an oral surgeon and he was saying that after and injection of lidocaine w/epi 1:100,000 you can expect an increase in bp of about 15-20mmHg. Don't know how true that is.

Any rise in the BP that much is due to the anxiety associated with getting "the needle", NOT the epi.

Hup
 
Dental anesthesia with 1:100000 epi injected in soft tissue will have a negligible effect on BP, assuming you're aspirating negatively. Managing the stress of your patient by administering a painless injection will have far more of an effect on the BP than the epi.

My personal guidelines..
BP > 160/95 I'll limit myself to 3 carps
BP > 180/100 I'll limit myself to 2 carps and monitor BP periodically - defer elective procedures
BP > 200/110 No procedures, refer to ER

Hup

This is purely anecdotal. I would avoid posting things like this on these forums. People will see this and adopt it as their own philosophy. If you are uneducated and/or stupid you can hurt someone by following a guideline like this blindly
 
This is purely anecdotal. I would avoid posting things like this on these forums. People will see this and adopt it as their own philosophy. If you are uneducated and/or stupid you can hurt someone by following a guideline like this blindly

Seriously? This is a message board, not a text book. The OP was looking for others opinions on the matter and I gave mine. These are my LOOSE guidelines. Relax.
 
Seriously? This is a message board, not a text book. The OP was looking for others opinions on the matter and I gave mine. These are my LOOSE guidelines. Relax.

I'm just saying never underestimate the stupidity of some of the people who read these boards....and your "loose" guidelines are not based on any science.

The only paper to give anything close to recomendations is this one...

http://jada-plus.com/content/135/5/576.full.pdf+html

A commonly used cutoff for urgent dental treatment is 180/110. Limit epi for ... You can read the paper.
 
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I'm just saying never underestimate the stupidity of some of the people who read these boards....and your "loose" guidelines are not based on any science.

The only paper to give anything close to recomendations is this one...

http://jada-plus.com/content/135/5/576.full.pdf+html

A commonly used cutoff for urgent dental treatment is 180/110. Limit epi for ... You can read the paper.

Correct. And if you read my post you will notice I stated only urgent tx at 180/100 and no tx at anything more than 200/110. That pretty much agrees with the paper.

On another note, as doctors we have the knowledge and expertise to use our best judgement to stretch the "guidelines" based on the clinical scenario. A patient with a serious odontogenic infection may need to be treated with a BP of 190/100, whereas a patient with irreversible pulpitis should be referred to their PCP for evaluation.

Hup
 
I'm not sure about other schools, but the professors at my school go nuts about medical consults and using anesthetic w/o epi when it comes to treating patients that are barely at stage I hypertension. Does anyone know the exact numbers as far as the mmHg increase that occurs when a person is given 1 cartridge of 2% lidocaine w/ epi 1:100,000? I feel like dental school is taking it a little to far when it comes to turning away patients with high blood pressure.

Personally, I MUST measure the BP before any surgical procedure, or a very long procedure.
I dont treat any pt's with BP above 160/110 period. Although they get upset but I tell them that it is their best interest to have their bp adjusted, instead of leaving my office in the ambulance, and they appreciate it. Alot of times pts would tell me "hey I never had my BP measured before in a dental office, you guys must know what you're doing"

What I was taught duing my residency like everyone here, is that the amount of endorphins released from pain and fear is far more than the 1:100,000 epinephrine in your lidocaine. A good profound local anesthesia would not increase the bp significantly. Before I start an extraction, with an explorer I make sure that everything around the tooth Im dealing with is numb.

But my guess at dental school, professors want to teach their students the ideal way of treating pt's and to have the habit of referring to physician if needed.

I had a pt faint in my chair and her bp was 117/76 with no health conditions, she fainted because she didnt eat for almost a day because of the pain she had. BP isnt the only thing you should look at before starting the procedure.
Make sure your pt isnt exhausted and ate and most importantly has taken his meds. If diabetic pt ask whats the last blood sugar level was, if significantly high also refer. Diabetic pt's tend to not to eat nor take their meds before going to a dentist for some reason.

I hope this helps good luck 👍
 
Personally, I MUST measure the BP before any surgical procedure, or a very long procedure.
I dont treat any pt's with BP above 160/110 period. Although they get upset but I tell them that it is their best interest to have their bp adjusted, instead of leaving my office in the ambulance, and they appreciate it. Alot of times pts would tell me "hey I never had my BP measured before in a dental office, you guys must know what you're doing"

What I was taught duing my residency like everyone here, is that the amount of endorphins released from pain and fear is far more than the 1:100,000 epinephrine in your lidocaine. A good profound local anesthesia would not increase the bp significantly. Before I start an extraction, with an explorer I make sure that everything around the tooth Im dealing with is numb.

But my guess at dental school, professors want to teach their students the ideal way of treating pt's and to have the habit of referring to physician if needed.

I had a pt faint in my chair and her bp was 117/76 with no health conditions, she fainted because she didnt eat for almost a day because of the pain she had. BP isnt the only thing you should look at before starting the procedure.
Make sure your pt isnt exhausted and ate and most importantly has taken his meds. If diabetic pt ask whats the last blood sugar level was, if significantly high also refer. Diabetic pt's tend to not to eat nor take their meds before going to a dentist for some reason.

I hope this helps good luck 👍
Thanks for the words of wisdom. It's nice to get a different perspective from time to time.
 
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