truth/honest...be crude if u have to.

[piranha11]

---

Members do not see this ad.

x

 

[J-MUNCH]

In my opinoin, if you can complete 60+ hours at a university and get a degree with a high GPA 3.8+......... get a 30+ MCAT............get some exposure to medicine (volunteer at a hospital and shadow a doctor)........then you have a pretty decent shot of getting into a med school in the U.S.

I have a similar past except not quite as dramatic and have had 4 interviews so far this cycle(my first)........not in yet, but it is possible

Plus with the life experience you described..you are unique and can show what you have learned in your PS

 

[PerpetualBurn]

As much as I'm trying, I cannot be harsh to you. Your story, even if it isn't specific, is touching and shows a very real emotional drive to succeed. It has flashes of a very good personal statement. I agree that (1) is your best choice, as it ensures that you finish undergrad while giving you a chance to explore medicine and possibly other interests as well. If (1) is not feasible, finish your undergraduate coursework at any other college. Meanwhile, get involved in research and clinical activities. If you do decide to pursue medical school further, you're going to have to do really well on the MCAT. That way you give yourself a good chance at both U.S. and foreign schools. Throughout this process, you will have to be extremely devoted and mentally resilient. Try to look positively on the things that have happened in your past and use them to propel you further. Whichever path you decide, your greatest challenge will be to overcome psychological barriers. This thing is completely within your reach.

 

[piranha11]

x

 

[iheartrain]

As much as I'm trying, I cannot be harsh to you. Your story, even if it isn't specific, is touching and shows a very real emotional drive to succeed. It has flashes of a very good personal statement....This thing is completely within your reach.

Um, well Im not really seeing how the story is so touching (same story gets posted on SND at least once a day)- and his first 2 years of failing were due to "lack of motivation"- not really the greatest excuse so I would recommend not putting that into a personal statement. I think that this poster is not doing the OP any favors- look if you have 4 years of crap grades, you have a LONG road- not just 2 years. You prob have at min 4 years of college left (to get your degree, get an overall/sci gpa near or over 3.0 so you don't get screened out by med schools, etc) plus probably an SMP and a great MCAT score. Anythings possible, so if you want to go to med school than I say try- but realize that taking 8 credits a quarter for a few years at a community college is NOT the answer here. You need to prove you can do well in regular and pre-req classes at a 4 year.

 

[UMP]

After a horrendous 4 year college experience- of which i was kicked out of after 3 yrs, i've finally found what i want to do. Med school.

*fyi: transfer GPA was affected by my first 2 years by lack of motivation and then my 3rd year of bad health and depression.
I was kicked out of school at the end of spring semester 2005. In the previous year, I have spent my time away from school and away from classes in general to regain my strength, and confidence to step foot into education again. I have done some traveling to explore my options, and rationalize everything that was put forward for me. My visit to India was a dramatic eye opener. Upon staying there for 2.5-3 months, I realized there are so many factors that depend on education. Quality of life can improve with the basic standards of education. In such a place, any small quantity of education can improve the basic lifestyle. Sometimes some things have to be drawn out in such an extreme way to see the value of an object, and in my situation, the value of education had such a great impact. That is what I have realized: education is a step-by-step process to reach your goals. Without it, dreams are not attainable and remain as dreams. I know to you it may be a schpiel, but after hitting rock bottom- you understand the value of things that are no longer in your grasp.
After coming back from my trip, i joined a local state school and took 3 classes. I succeeded in getting As, however, im still a non-admitted student right now. No matter how hard I try, it will take me atleast 2.5 years to finish up my undergrad. And my chances of caribbean is by far better than my chances in the US.

I have 3 choices (in order of preference)

1. ask my old school (the one that i was kicked out from) to reinstate me..a 2nd chance to rectify the past- for peace of mind. and re-think my aim towards medicine (ie look into law)

2. continue at the state school and opt for caribbean after 2 years- while for the next 2 semester, i take 8 credits *2 classes w/ labs* along with classes from Community College to gain admission into state univ. (i've talked to the admissions of the state- and this is the only way i can gain acceptance: take 8 credits at their school and then take whatever i want at comm. college)

3. I recently found this: Twinning program of AUA and Manipal. This is where you do 2 years of all your pre-medical requirements and then 2 years of medicine followed by your clinical rotations in NYC. This program starts in Jan 2007 and equally same length as whatever I will be doing in the US. The greatest option for this program is that you can do all pre-med(2 yrs) and basic med sciences(2yrs) at AUA (american univ of antigua) and then clinicals at NYC (AUA is accredited by NY hospitals). Are there people in this program or know of this program well enough to advise?

I know this is a long post, but you're advice/suggestions/feedback, though it will be harsh- is very much appreciated.

What do you plan to do ? Do you have a specialty in mind ? If you just want to get any residency, then foreign schools are a good option...and it looks like you want to jump right in, but I'd make sure that that 3rd option has passed through all of those state licensing req's... there are also numerous schools in europe (warsaw, prague, krakow, budapest) that could take you in to a 6 year english program like option 3 (this is the normal european education) and you'll end up as a fully licensed MD that can come back... a few of those schools also have 4 year programs that cater to Americans if you have the prereqs done...

 

[piranha11]

x

 

[TN doc]

After a horrendous 4 year college experience- of which i was kicked out of after 3 yrs, i've finally found what i want to do. Med school.

*fyi: transfer GPA was affected by my first 2 years by lack of motivation and then my 3rd year of bad health and depression.
I was kicked out of school at the end of spring semester 2005. In the previous year, I have spent my time away from school and away from classes in general to regain my strength, and confidence to step foot into education again. I have done some traveling to explore my options, and rationalize everything that was put forward for me. My visit to India was a dramatic eye opener. Upon staying there for 2.5-3 months, I realized there are so many factors that depend on education. Quality of life can improve with the basic standards of education. In such a place, any small quantity of education can improve the basic lifestyle. Sometimes some things have to be drawn out in such an extreme way to see the value of an object, and in my situation, the value of education had such a great impact. That is what I have realized: education is a step-by-step process to reach your goals. Without it, dreams are not attainable and remain as dreams. I know to you it may be a schpiel, but after hitting rock bottom- you understand the value of things that are no longer in your grasp.
After coming back from my trip, i joined a local state school and took 3 classes. I succeeded in getting As, however, im still a non-admitted student right now. No matter how hard I try, it will take me atleast 2.5 years to finish up my undergrad. And my chances of caribbean is by far better than my chances in the US.

I have 3 choices (in order of preference)

1. ask my old school (the one that i was kicked out from) to reinstate me..a 2nd chance to rectify the past- for peace of mind. and re-think my aim towards medicine (ie look into law)

2. continue at the state school and opt for caribbean after 2 years- while for the next 2 semester, i take 8 credits *2 classes w/ labs* along with classes from Community College to gain admission into state univ. (i've talked to the admissions of the state- and this is the only way i can gain acceptance: take 8 credits at their school and then take whatever i want at comm. college)

3. I recently found this: Twinning program of AUA and Manipal. This is where you do 2 years of all your pre-medical requirements and then 2 years of medicine followed by your clinical rotations in NYC. This program starts in Jan 2007 and equally same length as whatever I will be doing in the US. The greatest option for this program is that you can do all pre-med(2 yrs) and basic med sciences(2yrs) at AUA (american univ of antigua) and then clinicals at NYC (AUA is accredited by NY hospitals). Are there people in this program or know of this program well enough to advise?

I know this is a long post, but you're advice/suggestions/feedback, though it will be harsh- is very much appreciated.

You wasted your parent's time and hard earned money - who were only trying to give you the best education they could afford. You might as well find another career option...you don't have the talent to hack it as a physician if you had to be kicked out of school.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

You wasted your parent's time and hard earned money - who were only trying to give you the best education they could afford. You might as well find another career option...you don't have the talent to hack it as a physician if you had to be kicked out of school.

I'd agree, but I also believe people can change. Piranha11, just because you got 3 A's at a state school doesn't mean you automatically have the drive and academic skill to jump back into school. You say you've regained your confidence to step back into education, but now you have to test it. I've known people who have failed out of school/kicked out and it is VERY hard for them to turn it around, because even when they have the greatest epiphany or inspiration, their character is still the same, and they ended up failing themselves again.

If you really feel like you have changed and learned something from your experience, then in my opinion, you would be a new student. And with a new student, you should have a new start. Don't take what you already have and try and fiddle with it to make it fit. Go back to the university you were at and start over and this time do it right. What J-MUNCH said is a good idea. Start over with a decent degree program, get a good GPA, do well on the MCAT.

And another thing he touched on - clinical experience and volunteering. You stated in your post that you would reconsider medicine and do law if your academics favored it. That right there is a red flag. Currently you are looking at your own situation and trying to sort out your life. Everything in your first post is I I I I. Not only do you have to figure out if you have changed and have the motivation to help yourself, but more importantly you need to determine if you have the motivation to help others. You didn't mention why you are now interested in medicine - alot of people these days do it just because "its the thing to do." Do the clinical experience and volunteering and make sure you have some desire to serve others in a medical setting. I'm not one who believes that you have to be a diehard, over-the-top passionate premed, but you should have at least SOME interest in it that is rooted to some concrete experience.

Don't do the second or third option you listed. You stated that you realize the value of education, but then you're willing to settle for Community College and combined foreign programs? I'd understand if that was all you could afford, or if you had some other limiting factor. But if option 1 is available, and you've got this inspiring revelation about education, how can you even contemplate #2 and #3?

My best suggestion: start over. Do it well. Figure out if medicine is what you want. Your future patients deserve better than a half assed return, and you owe it to yourself to do it for real.

 

[tracy34]

ITA w/ most of the posts above. You really need to prove that you can be a responsible person academically and incorporate some extracurriculars in your time as a "new" full-time student. I agree w/eternalrage in that a changed perspective is needed and you need you look at yourself as a "new" student.
You need to answer this question: Why should medical schools here accept you when there are applicants who didn't have nearly as many opportunities as you---no parental support, or obligatory years spent at CC right out of high school?
I wish you luck in your premedical studies. Take care~~

 

[baylormed]

...and his first 2 years of failing were due to "lack of motivation"- not really the greatest excuse so I would recommend not putting that into a personal statement.

How is that not a valid excuse?

Students that do well in college do well because they are motivated. There is a "something" driving them to study and work harder than others, may it be money, parents, simple pleasure for learning, wanting to graduate, etc.

Students that don't do well are not motivated...there can be many reasons for this "lack of motivation": immaturity, health/mental problems (everyone experiences these differently, so you can't say "well, other people get sick and still do well"...everyone is different emotionally).

Don't be so quick to judge. Not everyone starts off on the right foot.

I would also recommend completing 4 years of college with a good overall and scienc gpa (I'd say a +3.5 if possible, to really offset the first 3 years) doing well on the MCAT. Just go at your own pace, don't overload yourself with too many classes at once, and finish all your pre-reqs and some extras if possible, some advanced classes like Biochem, high level physiology classes with an A in front will make you feel more confident. Good luck. 👍

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

How is that not a valid excuse?

Well it is definitely an excuse, but i think what iheartrain is stating is that it's an excuse that really doesn't look good. For all ADCOMs know, piranha just could have been very lazy, and put some dramatic spin on it to make it look more of a disadvatange than it actually was. "Lack of motivation" is somewhat associated with "laziness" so it tends to look a little bad.

There are students out there who do poorly in their undergraduate years because of extreme circumstances that might seem more harsh than "lack of motivation." For example, a student may have gotten raped and been under emotional stress. Another student may have had their grandparents die in a car crash. Others might have had their apartments and all their belongings destroyed in a kitchenfire. Some might have lost family in Katrina or 9/11. Compare "lack of motivation" to the full spectrum of what people will write on their secondaries for questions such as "has there been any events that interfered with your studies" - it doesn't look that relatively significant.

 

[tracy34]

How is that not a valid excuse?

Students that do well in college do well because they are motivated. There is a "something" driving them to study and work harder than others, may it be money, parents, simple pleasure for learning, wanting to graduate, etc.

Students that don't do well are not motivated...there can be many reasons for this "lack of motivation": immaturity, health/mental problems (everyone experiences these differently, so you can't say "well, other people get sick and still do well"...everyone is different emotionally).

Don't be so quick to judge. Not everyone starts off on the right foot.

I would also recommend completing 4 years of college with a good overall and scienc gpa (I'd say a +3.5 if possible, to really offset the first 3 years) doing well on the MCAT. Just go at your own pace, don't overload yourself with too many classes at once, and finish all your pre-reqs and some extras if possible, some advanced classes like Biochem, high level physiology classes with an A in front will make you feel more confident. Good luck. 👍

Wow, that was, to sum it up, a really GOOD response. 👍 👍 👍 I agree 100% with this, baylormed. To the OP, you seem to have learned a lot from your experiences. From your post I get the feeling you've been through some hard times. Maybe something terrible happened to you that affected your concentration, maybe caused a lack of motivation in you. I can certainly relate. Keep your head up ~~

 

[nekrogg]

sometimes, you only have one chance in life. try your best but.. yea.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Life is a lot like golf. Sometimes you can spend 6 strokes making up for 1 really bad one 😀

By the way, I'm not sure why something terrible has to happen to you to make up for past mistakes. Why does someone have to have a dead family member or something? When I started college I was a kid. Kids make mistakes. Not everyone was raised to be a doctor. Not everyone finished highschool with post-graduate plans in their heads. Most of all, not everybody can live an entire life without ever questioning any alternatives to a path they had decided on at a young age. To assume that all people, or at least all future doctors, should make perfect decisions shows a fundamental missunderstanding of psychological development, and exposes the naivete you have used to manifest and nurture the image of "doctor" as infallible and unhuman. I think it is highly reflective of someone's dedication and will to dig themselves out of an academic ditch. This in many ways shows a lot more guts and character than someone who has blindly followed a cookie-cutter path and is unable to imagine what it would be like to "lack motivation". I would hope any mature adcomm will realize that. I don't think there is any reason for them to be particularly vendictive...at least not as much as your average SDN-er.

 

[sunset823]

Keep in mind that adcoms are going to look at EVERY post-high school course you ever took - You are going to have to write down those three years of crappy grades, and looking at your previous posts, if you were <2.0 some terms, that's going to be a big black mark, no matter what your situation was. I've seen people who have had pretty bad family situations, but have still managed at least decent grades (>3.0). From what you've said, it's just sheer laziness and immaturity that got you to where you are now - I had a pretty crappy freshman year myself, but know that it is no excuse, and with 3 years of that, you have a lot to make up for.

If you really want to go to med school in the states, my advice, like some others here, is start over from scratch. Some schools will let you replace a bad grade in a course with a new better one, and even if they don't, they will know that you have retaken the classes and done well in them. Yes, this is going to take about 3-4 years, but I think it's worth it because there are many 'non-traditional' applicants in their late 20s and even older, and even better, when you finally do enter med school, people won't come to know your past.

Also, you mentioned Manipal in your post...if you're Indian, that can mean one of two things 1) wow, an Indian with a <4.0 GPA and a past; this is certainly unique or 2) A kid who still doesn't know what they are doing in life, and only rushing this med school thing because this is what all Indians are supposed to do...to avoid falling into the latter trap, you have to really show your passion for medicine, and again, this means several years of clinical ECs and such.

And last note; community college prereqs don't count at some schools - again, you need to take these same classes at a four year school.

Basically, apply for 2010 or later, and you should be fine.

 

[EndSong]

I have to agree that the original OP may not be suited for medicine. The things I noticed immediately were:

1. Why medicine again? You said you saw the opportunities for education in India and how there weren't very many of them, how does that translate into being a doctor instead of say... being an international English teacher/missionary/healthcare worker? Again, saying he'll go into law if this medicine thing doesn't pan out is a red flag. I could understand if he had said, I would be an EMT or nurse or PA or researcher, but law?

2. The OP has major red flags in his application, i.e. getting kicked out of school for something like lack of motivation. What does that mean? It sounds like the OP was lazy and more importantly, flaky. The OP would need to work on proving to schools that he's a solid investment and the real deal. In other words, the school will not invest capital and time on someone who may flake out 3 years into med school because they "lose motivation."

3. While the OP has gotten As in some classes, it doesn't mean he will pass Ochem, Biochem, upper division Bio, etc. with an average greater than 3.5. And since he already has one red flag on his application, the OP will probably need something substantially higher than 3.5, probably aiming for a 3.8+.

It's a long road ahead and I'm not saying that its impossible. But it will definitely test one's mental fortitude, so I say go for it. But keep all those considerations in mind. -

 

[UMP]

Life is a lot like golf. Sometimes you can spend 6 strokes making up for 1 really bad one 😀

By the way, I'm not sure why something terrible has to happen to you to make up for past mistakes. Why does someone have to have a dead family member or something? When I started college I was a kid. Kids make mistakes. Not everyone was raised to be a doctor. Not everyone finished highschool with post-graduate plans in their heads. Most of all, not everybody can live an entire life without ever questioning any alternatives to a path they had decided on at a young age. To assume that all people, or at least all future doctors, should make perfect decisions shows a fundamental missunderstanding of psychological development, and exposes the naivete you have used to manifest and nurture the image of "doctor" as infallible and unhuman. I think it is highly reflective of someone's dedication and will to dig themselves out of an academic ditch. This in many ways shows a lot more guts and character than someone who has blindly followed a cookie-cutter path and is unable to imagine what it would be like to "lack motivation". I would hope any mature adcomm will realize that. I don't think there is any reason for them to be particularly vendictive...at least not as much as your average SDN-er.

👍 too true

 

[piranha11]

x

 

[theothernguyen]

I have a true interest in medicine, and i also have an interest in law(seeing how there's an impact of world politics right now). However my interest in medicine comes more naturally because i like to help people. That's what i did as well in india. I volunteered at the hospitals/clinics near the surrounding villages to get an idea if this what i like. And i do like it.

Just a question for you: Why medicine? You like to help people is a bit vague since there are MANY ways in which you can do that. You stated in your first post that you saw education to be a very important. I still do not see this true interest, nor how it is natural to you to help people, so do explain what you got out of these volunteer experiences. Volunteering is one thing, the experience is another.

Upon staying there for 2.5-3 months, I realized there are so many factors that depend on education. Quality of life can improve with the basic standards of education. In such a place, any small quantity of education can improve the basic lifestyle. Sometimes some things have to be drawn out in such an extreme way to see the value of an object, and in my situation, the value of education had such a great impact. That is what I have realized: education is a step-by-step process to reach your goals. Without it, dreams are not attainable and remain as dreams.

So could you technically help people via social work? Definitely address this. It is nice to see that you had this life changing experience, but in a way, I would ask you this: Where was this drive to help people in the first few years of your college education? Does it take a trip to India to make you realize that there are these hardships that require attention?

Given that your change is admirable, but you MUST show that you are willing to do this for the sake of helping people. Like what most people are saying, you should essentially startover and work your way up. I think that will be a definitive factor in showing that you are willing to dedicate the next 3-4 years of your life to make up your undergraduate education, and another 4 years of medical school, and possibly 2-4 years after for more training. Show that you realize that being a physican would require a life style change and that you are commited to change your life style to help those in need. You have a lot of points in your story that can be picked at, but nevertheless can be addressed with lots of work. The three classes you took are just the beginning, so be prepared.

Good luck!

 

[anon-y-mouse]

After a horrendous 4 year college experience- of which i was kicked out of after 3 yrs, i've finally found what i want to do. Med school.

*fyi: transfer GPA was affected by my first 2 years by lack of motivation and then my 3rd year of bad health and depression.
I was kicked out of school at the end of spring semester 2005. In the previous year, I have spent my time away from school and away from classes in general to regain my strength, and confidence to step foot into education again. I have done some traveling to explore my options, and rationalize everything that was put forward for me. My visit to India was a dramatic eye opener. Upon staying there for 2.5-3 months, I realized there are so many factors that depend on education. Quality of life can improve with the basic standards of education. In such a place, any small quantity of education can improve the basic lifestyle. Sometimes some things have to be drawn out in such an extreme way to see the value of an object, and in my situation, the value of education had such a great impact. That is what I have realized: education is a step-by-step process to reach your goals. Without it, dreams are not attainable and remain as dreams. I know to you it may be a schpiel, but after hitting rock bottom- you understand the value of things that are no longer in your grasp.
After coming back from my trip, i joined a local state school and took 3 classes. I succeeded in getting As, however, im still a non-admitted student right now. No matter how hard I try, it will take me atleast 2.5 years to finish up my undergrad. And my chances of caribbean is by far better than my chances in the US.

I have 3 choices (in order of preference)

1. ask my old school (the one that i was kicked out from) to reinstate me..a 2nd chance to rectify the past- for peace of mind. and re-think my aim towards medicine (ie look into law)

2. continue at the state school and opt for caribbean after 2 years- while for the next 2 semester, i take 8 credits *2 classes w/ labs* along with classes from Community College to gain admission into state univ. (i've talked to the admissions of the state- and this is the only way i can gain acceptance: take 8 credits at their school and then take whatever i want at comm. college)

3. I recently found this: Twinning program of AUA and Manipal. This is where you do 2 years of all your pre-medical requirements and then 2 years of medicine followed by your clinical rotations in NYC. This program starts in Jan 2007 and equally same length as whatever I will be doing in the US. The greatest option for this program is that you can do all pre-med(2 yrs) and basic med sciences(2yrs) at AUA (american univ of antigua) and then clinicals at NYC (AUA is accredited by NY hospitals). Are there people in this program or know of this program well enough to advise?

I know this is a long post, but you're advice/suggestions/feedback, though it will be harsh- is very much appreciated.

Cut your losses and go Caribbean. It's pretty much the same thing, although you might be restricted to things like Internal Medicine if are kind of an average student there. Once you get that ECFMG certification to take the USMLE, you will be golden... with respect to *some* career in medicine. Med school is a lot of self study anyway wherever you go. You will definitely get into that Antiguan school or whatever. All they're looking for is money. Law schools are very very heavy into GPA (and obviously LSAT). At least you have a guaranteed chance at medicine with respect to the Caribbean. Your past history is too tainted for US med schools, unless you want to retake everything and become an osteopath (their admissions system generously allows all old grades to be replaced with new ones for retakes). Take one path and stick to it. For now, go work and make money. You probably don't even need to do too much community service, as getting into Caribbean is fairly trivial in the first place. PS: what did your parents think of all of this? and family members when you went to India? A lot of my Indian classmates tell me how hardcore their families can be.

 

[crazy_cavalier]

I just came in here to be crude. Here goes.

First off, you are ALL OVER the place. Slow down. When I read a line like this:

1. ask my old school (the one that i was kicked out from) to reinstate me..a 2nd chance to rectify the past- for peace of mind. and re-think my aim towards medicine (ie look into law)

It makes me wonder what the hell you are thinking. I.e. look into law??? Wtf.

If you want some honest advice, you're looking waaaayyy too far ahead, and the tone of your post gave me the impression that your decision to go into medicine was very spontanenous.

How about you focus on finishing undergrad first? Med school is a whole other ball game. You gotta learn to drink from a straw before you go drinking out of a hose.