Try Residency or get PharmD?

[DazedMD]

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Hey everyone,

I graduated from medical school in May, but did not apply for residency. I have mixed feelings about if I even want to practice medicine. I loved the first two years of medical school but hated the last two for the most part. I really don't enjoy H&P's. To tell you the truth I don't even get motivated by physical diagnosis for the most part unless the patient has a very interesting illness or any type of cancer.

Although I started studying for step 3 and enjoy studying medicine a lot. I'm fascinated by studying medicine but not by practicing it. So what am I supposed to do with my life??

Lately I have been talking to the pharmacy school and also to the pharmacology PhD people. Since I love biochemistry and pharmacology a PharmD seems like the best option. I am very detail oriented and love mechanisms.

I thought I wanted to do pathology but eliminated that after some elective rotations. I definitely don't want to do surgery, ob, peds or psych.

So that leaves me with IM, rads, or gas. But I didn't even do elective rotations in any of these my 4 th year so I don't know how to go about even trying to see if I would like these specialites. I'm shut out of clinical work because I'm not insured by any form of malpractice.

I am 26 now. Would start pharmacy school at 27. Complete the program by age 30 or 31 depending on if it takes me 3 or 4 years.

My question is what should I do? PharmD or continue with medicine. I really am not happy doing H&Ps, presenting patients, etc. So will it get better in residency or should I assume that it's time to walk away. I am also concerned with money and time. salary of $100K with PharmD plus paying for 4 more years of school vs potential for a lot more.

I would appreciate your insight.

 

[StudentDoc327]

Hey everyone,

I graduated from medical school in May, but did not apply for residency. I have mixed feelings about if I even want to practice medicine. I loved the first two years of medical school but hated the last two for the most part. I really don't enjoy H&P's. To tell you the truth I don't even get motivated by physical diagnosis for the most part unless the patient has a very interesting illness or any type of cancer.

Although I started studying for step 3 and enjoy studying medicine a lot. I'm fascinated by studying medicine but not by practicing it. So what am I supposed to do with my life??

Lately I have been talking to the pharmacy school and also to the pharmacology PhD people. Since I love biochemistry and pharmacology a PharmD seems like the best option. I am very detail oriented and love mechanisms.

I thought I wanted to do pathology but eliminated that after some elective rotations. I definitely don't want to do surgery, ob, peds or psych.

So that leaves me with IM, rads, or gas. But I didn't even do elective rotations in any of these my 4 th year so I don't know how to go about even trying to see if I would like these specialites. I'm shut out of clinical work because I'm not insured by any form of malpractice.

I am 26 now. Would start pharmacy school at 27. Complete the program by age 30 or 31 depending on if it takes me 3 or 4 years.

My question is what should I do? PharmD or continue with medicine. I really am not happy doing H&Ps, presenting patients, etc. So will it get better in residency or should I assume that it's time to walk away. I am also concerned with money and time. salary of $100K with PharmD plus paying for 4 more years of school vs potential for a lot more.

I would appreciate your insight.

Im not out of medical school yet (final year), but I know a lot of pharmacists. You will probably like pharmacy school just like you liked first and second year medical school, but will be even more unimpressed with the daily work of pharmacisists as compared to physicians. I dont want to say anything negative about the feild of pharmacy because I think it is a great career and would recommend it seriously to anybody thinking about the medical feild or medical school, however I dont think it will call upon using the type of thinking you like, especialy retail pharmacy. I cant comment on other kinds of pharmacy because I dont know anybody in those feilds or what they do. Have you thought about research or teaching + research at a medical school? You could keep studying while making a nice salary.

 

[sdn1977]

I have a PharmD & I've been a pharmacist for many, many years. I do lots more than just dispense medications & I've worked in lots of practice settings, but I'm not sure a PharmD will get you what you are looking for.

Ask yourself some questions...do you want to do bench research? (unless you are a licensed physician, you can't do clinical trials). Do you want to teach? Do you want to track drug & illness patterns? Do you want to write? Do you want to lecture?

.....or......do you just like going to school??????

You say you are detail oriented & love mechanisms, but it seems you like the learning process. In every job (medicine, pharmacy, research..) there is a "doing" part that must be done. We all continue to educate ourselves long after we finish school. Is the problem, perhaps, that you don't want to stop being a student?

You are focused on the h&p's & presenting patients. Once you get a specialty, you won't have to do that if you take that specialization & go into industry for research. But....you won't even get into the pharmaceutical industry as a physician (or a PharmD) without a specialization - kind of a catch-22 - unless you pursue a PhD which is another 6-7 years.

Answers to these questions will help you decide where to go from here. I honestly don't think a PharmD will help - but you can pm me anytime. But...perhaps an MBA, PhD in one of the pharmaceutically related subjects or a public health degree may be more up your alley. Good luck!

 

[PuGanDoo]

Hi DazedMD,

I've seen your posts on some of the other forums. Just wanted to offer my support, I empathize with you. I'm a budding pathologist and am currently doing my third year clerkships. I'm trying to figure out how I will make it through this year when all I want to do is head to the Path lab!

I can understand your issues with clinical medicine and I share your passion for learning and understanding mechanisms. I like to consider myself a thinker rather than a doer. 🙂

Have you considered clinical pharmacology programs (for MDs)? Here are some links to check out. I'm not sure of the particulars or where these would take you career-wise, but it never hurts to have a look and then contact some people and ask these questions. The first link has fellowship information and the NIH link has information for an intensive 3 year clinical pharm research training experience in selected NIH labs. You don't have to be an MD-PhD.

www.ascpt.org/education/fellow.cfm

www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/Mechanisms/NRSA/IndivPostdoc/

I hope these are helpful and I wish you the best of luck. Keep us updated on your progess. It helps to know that there are others out there similar to myself.

 

[LHCF]

How about anesthesia? That involves studying a lot of pharmacology and physiology.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Hey everyone,

I graduated from medical school in May, but did not apply for residency. I have mixed feelings about if I even want to practice medicine. I loved the first two years of medical school but hated the last two for the most part. I really don't enjoy H&P's. To tell you the truth I don't even get motivated by physical diagnosis for the most part unless the patient has a very interesting illness or any type of cancer.

Although I started studying for step 3 and enjoy studying medicine a lot. I'm fascinated by studying medicine but not by practicing it. So what am I supposed to do with my life??

Lately I have been talking to the pharmacy school and also to the pharmacology PhD people. Since I love biochemistry and pharmacology a PharmD seems like the best option. I am very detail oriented and love mechanisms.

I thought I wanted to do pathology but eliminated that after some elective rotations. I definitely don't want to do surgery, ob, peds or psych.

So that leaves me with IM, rads, or gas. But I didn't even do elective rotations in any of these my 4 th year so I don't know how to go about even trying to see if I would like these specialites. I'm shut out of clinical work because I'm not insured by any form of malpractice.

I am 26 now. Would start pharmacy school at 27. Complete the program by age 30 or 31 depending on if it takes me 3 or 4 years.

My question is what should I do? PharmD or continue with medicine. I really am not happy doing H&Ps, presenting patients, etc. So will it get better in residency or should I assume that it's time to walk away. I am also concerned with money and time. salary of $100K with PharmD plus paying for 4 more years of school vs potential for a lot more.

I would appreciate your insight.

Yes, pay lots of money to get another doctorate and then make way less than any physician.

Great idea! 👍 👍

Just go into pathology, radiology, research, etc.....

 

[katdo]

As a former pharmacist turned physician, I can think of nothing more rewarding than being a physician. I am a PGY1 and I hate paperwork too and even considered not doing residency and just going back to being a pharmacist after feeling frustrated in my 3-4 med school years and having a baby that I wanted to spend more time with. I have to say that now that I am an intern and have the resposibility of being a physician, I could not imagine going back to pharmacy. I like the patients and I like working with the medical team every day and being a leader and as a pharmacist I didn't get as much of this. The H&P's get easier and faster. Don't give up! 🙂

 

[Samoa]

Don't bother with the PharmD. You'll be doing much the same thing, only lower on the food chain and minus the diagnostic part. Basic science knowledge is rarely used.

If you liked the first two years of medical school, I think you'd be far more satisfied with a career in research. Yes it's more debt, but the NIH has programs that pay back some of your loans in exchange for doing research. And you can fund a lot of the cost while you're in school by being a research or teaching assistant.

The other thing you could do is do the year of internship, THEN go to grad school. You'll make far more money moonlighting as a primary care doc than you would in research or teaching as a grad student. And then you'd have a little more freedom with your research.

 

[joshmir]

FMGs do observerships all the time...don't have malpractice insurance,,,you may like rads and can do an observership in this feel if you are creative and aggressive in finding/making one...alos path...get you dean on board to set this up

cats from london doing med student away rotations in the states find some company to cover their malpractice...diligent googling will find it...


do an intern year (sucks, but you'll live) and beg for a path or rads elective...then you're licensed and eligible for the residenciesand knowledgable about the fields

molecular imaging is a hot field to help you get a rads spot

Don't bother with the PharmD. You'll be doing much the same thing, only lower on the food chain and minus the diagnostic part. Basic science knowledge is rarely used.

If you liked the first two years of medical school, I think you'd be far more satisfied with a career in research. Yes it's more debt, but the NIH has programs that pay back some of your loans in exchange for doing research. And you can fund a lot of the cost while you're in school by being a research or teaching assistant.

The other thing you could do is do the year of internship, THEN go to grad school. You'll make far more money moonlighting as a primary care doc than you would in research or teaching as a grad student. And then you'd have a little more freedom with your research.

 

[Lonestar]

I would refrain from going to Pharmacy school. You just didn't utilize your time in 4th year to check out all the specialties. Many med students have none to very little exposure to many subspecialties. The Great thing about medicine is that you will find something worthwhile. I did a anesthesia rotation late in my 4th year and enjoyed it (it didn't knock my socks off; but atleast i could handle it.) Currently, I am a PGY 3 resident in anesthesia. Life in residency sucks no matter what resident you are. And residency in anesthesia is no exception. But I am glad that I made my choice and it looks better and better as I near graduation. You just have to pay your debt in medicine before you reap the rewards. It just requires willpower. Unfortunately, gas seems to be on an upward swing right now and it is becoming competitive. Rads is very competitive. There are many other fields that you can look into if you donot have the grades or whatever. PM&R is a good field in my opinion. If you do decide to go the medicine route, apply as soon as you can. Further you wait the less desirable you will become to the program directors. Hope this helps.

 

[IndyXRT]

To tell you the truth I don't even get motivated by physical diagnosis for the most part unless the patient has a very interesting illness or any type of cancer.

Have you thought about medical oncology or radiation oncology? I spent my entire 3rd year of medical school wondering what I'd gotten myself into. The only patients that really interested me were the cancer patients. So I chose a field (rad onc) that (for the most part) only deals with cancer patients. I love what I do. Before you completely turn your back on practicing medicine (after putting in four years in med school), think about concentrating on only the patients that interest you (it is possible).

Also, the H+P thing gets easier. You'll always be presenting H+Ps to someone in some form, but it won't be like presenting an H+P as a medical student to an attending. Best of luck whatever your choice is.

P.S. There's a great radiation oncology forum on this site with plenty of info. Take a look.

 

[chicamedica]

OP you sound like a perfect match for pathology. Path is basically a career based purely on preclinical knowledge. Look into it, that may be your calling.

p.s. oops i just noticed that you did some path electives and didn't like it. dont know what to say then. Radiology maybe? but you still have to do a year of medicine as an intern beforehand. Perhaps your electives were just not optimal. Also, often med student path rotations are in anatomic pathology. There is also clinical pathology which is a huge other aspect to path and is pretty different from anatomic. Dont know if you experienced that side of path. If not, perhaps you ought to.

 

[DazedMD]

Thanks for your response.

I do love school so I understand your point about maybe I will just go to school forever and never really love my job.

Could be true, but my main problem with medicine is that I don't enjoy physical examination and diagnosis. I don't know why but I noticed this from the very beginning but I kept going because type A, competitive etc. I didn't stop and think about the whole situation until now.

If I can honestly say that I don't like examining people then medicine is not the best idea. True, I can keep going and make a lot of cash eventually but something is holding me back from pursuing it any further.

I feel like I've been unhappy for the past 2 years and don't want to continue just "because". I want to have a reason

Pharmacy would have been better for me initially because I really do enjoy pharmacology and knowing specific details on a part of the medical field. I enjoy learning about treatment, just not diagnosing the patient myself.

Doing clinical pharmacy and specializing in oncology sounds very interesting to me.

What do you think. I know it's crazy to go back to school but in the long run it may be better.

I have a PharmD & I've been a pharmacist for many, many years. I do lots more than just dispense medications & I've worked in lots of practice settings, but I'm not sure a PharmD will get you what you are looking for.

Ask yourself some questions...do you want to do bench research? (unless you are a licensed physician, you can't do clinical trials). Do you want to teach? Do you want to track drug & illness patterns? Do you want to write? Do you want to lecture?

.....or......do you just like going to school??????

You say you are detail oriented & love mechanisms, but it seems you like the learning process. In every job (medicine, pharmacy, research..) there is a "doing" part that must be done. We all continue to educate ourselves long after we finish school. Is the problem, perhaps, that you don't want to stop being a student?

You are focused on the h&p's & presenting patients. Once you get a specialty, you won't have to do that if you take that specialization & go into industry for research. But....you won't even get into the pharmaceutical industry as a physician (or a PharmD) without a specialization - kind of a catch-22 - unless you pursue a PhD which is another 6-7 years.

Answers to these questions will help you decide where to go from here. I honestly don't think a PharmD will help - but you can pm me anytime. But...perhaps an MBA, PhD in one of the pharmaceutically related subjects or a public health degree may be more up your alley. Good luck!

 

[Mr. McDuck]

There are specialties in medicine that don't require you to do any physical exams. You don't like making diagnoses at all, even independent of doing an H&P?

 

[johankriek]

DO A rotating internship Oldstyle (transitional year) and do a month or all the specialties you did not get exposed to...

i agree with the one who said about path.. All they do is pre clinical stuff and they NEver examine any patients... neither does radiology.... radiology is hard residency though i dont know if i could get through it...

 

[Samoa]

LISTEN TO ME: CLINICAL PHARMACY INVOLVES VERY LITTLE PHARMACOLOGY. It is about treating patients. It is clinical medicine, with an emphasis on drug therapy. If you hated your medicine rotation, you will hate clinical pharmacy. It's like being a 3rd year med student for the rest of your life. (although the team might actually listen to your suggestions, so that's a little different. But it's still clinical medicine).

If your goal is to keep going to school, then fine, it's a way to stay in school for another 4 years. But at the end of it you're going to be in exactly the same predicament you are now.

 

[DazedMD]

LISTEN TO ME: CLINICAL PHARMACY INVOLVES VERY LITTLE PHARMACOLOGY. It is about treating patients. It is clinical medicine, with an emphasis on drug therapy. If you hated your medicine rotation, you will hate clinical pharmacy. It's like being a 3rd year med student for the rest of your life. (although the team might actually listen to your suggestions, so that's a little different. But it's still clinical medicine).

If your goal is to keep going to school, then fine, it's a way to stay in school for another 4 years. But at the end of it you're going to be in exactly the same predicament you are now.

It may be "clinical pharmacy" but its not "clinical medicine". There is a big difference between taking care of the entire patient, getting the history, doing the physical examination, making the diagnosis and prescribing the treatment versus Being the specialist on DRUG TREATMENT.

You only have to deal with one part of the puzzle and be great at that part.

You don't have to get up at 4 am, go wake all your patients up to pre round, etc, etc.

Clinical pharmacists do not all work in inpatient facilities either. I could specialize in Oncology and work in an outpatient chemotherapy center.

 

[Samoa]

Actually, I'm a clinical pharmacist myself. So I speak from experience.

You don't have to listen to me, of course. But I do have a better grasp of all your options with a PharmD, as well as the kind of knowledge you'd be using on a day-to-day basis, than you do at this point. And, like medicine, it looks very different on the outside than what it actually is.

And by the way, yes you could work in an outpatient chemo clinic, but in reality you can't be that picky about the job you want. There are fewer oncology pharmacists out there than there are neurosurgeons in the united states, and while it may be easy to find work as a generalist in clinical pharmacy, it's extremely difficult to find a specialty position. And be the one they hire. Particularly without two years of pharmacy residency on top of the 4 years of school.

 

[DazedMD]

Actually, I'm a clinical pharmacist myself. So I speak from experience.

You don't have to listen to me, of course. But I do have a better grasp of all your options with a PharmD, as well as the kind of knowledge you'd be using on a day-to-day basis, than you do at this point. And, like medicine, it looks very different on the outside than what it actually is.

And by the way, yes you could work in an outpatient chemo clinic, but in reality you can't be that picky about the job you want. There are fewer oncology pharmacists out there than there are neurosurgeons in the united states, and while it may be easy to find work as a generalist in clinical pharmacy, it's extremely difficult to find a specialty position. And be the one they hire. Particularly without two years of pharmacy residency on top of the 4 years of school.

I think that with my MD plus a PharmD and 2 years of pharmacy residency, I would be very competitive in any of the specialty fields I decide to go into.

Do you love your job? What are the pros and cons of clinical pharmacy?

 

[InfraMan]

I think that with my MD plus a PharmD and 2 years of pharmacy residency, I would be very competitive in any of the specialty fields I decide to go into.

Do you love your job? What are the pros and cons of clinical pharmacy?

I think you really don't want to face the "real" world with its responsibilities. You want to be a student forever. If you go PharmD you'll be back in a few years asking "what about vet school?"

Just go into teaching and be done with it. Or would that be too much responsibility, too?

I think it's pathetic that you took a spot in medical school away from someone else.

 

[LHCF]

I think you really don't want to face the "real" world with its responsibilities. You want to be a student forever. If you go PharmD you'll be back in a few years asking "what about vet school?"

Just go into teaching and be done with it. Or would that be too much responsibility, too?

I think it's pathetic that you took a spot in medical school away from someone else.

We are all human and people's goals and interest change with time. I don't know if you are in medical school yet, but you'll see. A lot of people start off thinking they want to practice clinical medicine and end up in research, health care administration, etc.

 

[Samoa]

I think that with my MD plus a PharmD and 2 years of pharmacy residency, I would be very competitive in any of the specialty fields I decide to go into.

Actually, not necessarily. There are more residency grads at this point than clinical jobs. And your MD might very well intimidate the people who do the hiring.

To answer your question, I enjoyed my job a great deal, for the same reason that I'm enjoying clinical medicine as a 4th year med student. Which is how I know you'd hate it.

 

[jocn]

I'm another PharmD now in ms4 year. I only worked part-time during school in a hospital setting, but I have to say that the most demanding pharmacist job does not even begin to scratch the surface of what physicians have to learn. My honest opinion is that pharmacy will be unfullfilling for you. Look very carefully into what typical pharmacists' jobs are like before making this decision. Also, there are so many different fields in medicine--are you sure that you haven't overlooked a field that might suit you? Not all of them involve doing long H+P's or even patient contact at all!

IMO pharmacy school would be a huge waste of your knowledge, talent, time and money. And the education is far below what a physician has to learn. Trust me on this.

 

[InfraMan]

We are all human and people's goals and interest change with time. I don't know if you are in medical school yet, but you'll see. A lot of people start off thinking they want to practice clinical medicine and end up in research, health care administration, etc.

I'm 40 years old and an MS2. At 40, I know *plenty* about how people change as they age.

The fact is DazedMD can't face the real world - responsibilities and interacting with people. He (or she, I forget) has been in school his whole life and is freaking out at the possibility of having to leave school.

 

[DazedMD]

I'm 40 years old and an MS2. At 40, I know *plenty* about how people change as they age.

The fact is DazedMD can't face the real world - responsibilities and interacting with people. He (or she, I forget) has been in school his whole life and is freaking out at the possibility of having to leave school.

Really sorry about you not getting into medical school until you are 40 Inframan...

Either that or not figuring out what your calling is until now

I was accepted into medical school at 21. I earned my spot-BA in Biochemistry with GPA of 3.85, tons of volunteer work, and at the time what was a passion for medicine.

You haven't even done clinical rotations yet so your input is of no value to me at this point.

People need time off to think about the future. Look at how much time you've had off working, etc to decide what you want to do.

It's not about me being scared of taking on responsibility. The problem is that I do not enjoy patient care. I have not found anything yet that I am passionate about in medicine, so I am taking time to reflect.

If you don't understand this, good luck. Life is not always black and white. There are many shades of gray.

 

[InfraMan]

Really sorry about you not getting into medical school until you are 40 Inframan...

Either that or not figuring out what your calling is until now

No need to feel sorry for me.

I had a very successful career in business before I went to medical school. Accepted to all schools to which I applied, on the first try. Made the change to medicine because I was ready for a new challenge.

Medicine is not a "calling." It is a job. A good one. Stimulating, rewarding, and even somewhat lucrative.

You went to medical school right out of college. You've never done anything in your life but go to school, so you don't have much perspective.

Working is not about passion. Passion doesn't last. It's about satisfaction. It's about finding a balance between work and life outside of work.

You still think there's some magical job out there that's going to fill you with "passion" every day. That won't happen. It doesn't happen. Sorry you're just now realizing this.

So you don't enjoy patient care. Fair enough. But others have suggested research, drug company work, etc. None of that appeals to you, either.

The only thing you can think of is going back to school. That speaks volumes.

 

[DazedMD]

No need to feel sorry for me.

I had a very successful career in business before I went to medical school. Accepted to all schools to which I applied, on the first try. Made the change to medicine because I was ready for a new challenge.

Medicine is not a "calling." It is a job. A good one. Stimulating, rewarding, and even somewhat lucrative.

You went to medical school right out of college. You've never done anything in your life but go to school, so you don't have much perspective.

Working is not about passion. Passion doesn't last. It's about satisfaction. It's about finding a balance between work and life outside of work.

You still think there's some magical job out there that's going to fill you with "passion" every day. That won't happen. It doesn't happen. Sorry you're just now realizing this.

So you don't enjoy patient care. Fair enough. But others have suggested research, drug company work, etc. None of that appeals to you, either.

The only thing you can think of is going back to school. That speaks volumes.

Medicine is a calling. People can get by and be average docs because they have intelligence, but the best all around MDs are those who have a real passion for practicing medicine.

You will meet these people. They are the ones I would want to be my doctor.

I believe that a person should be passionate about their career. It's what you do for so much of your life. You need to wake up in the morning and love what you do for a living.

I have a passion for academia. I would love to eventually teach part time and work part time.

I don't have children or other responsibilities that tie me down. I have time to search for the right career for me.

I do love school. Maybe I'll get a PharmD and a PhD and whatever else. I may be poor, but I'll be happy in the academic world. It's my life. If I love to learn, then that is what I will do. I'll make a living out of it.

You obviously didn't find the right career for you the first time around, so don't judge others for their choices.

 

[Samoa]

This is not meant as an attack in any way, DazedMD, but I think there's a key difference between you and InfraMan. He worked for quite some time in his other profession before going to medical school, and from the sound of it, didn't go to med school in order to escape the demands of his prior profession.

As for me, I went to med school because it was a more hard core version of what I already knew I enjoyed. But I spent several years working in that profession beforehand, and although it wasn't by choice, I'm very glad now that I did.

I take issue with you both on medicine as a job vs. a calling. I don't believe it's a calling, but I don't think it's just a job either. You should enjoy what you do, and passion doesn't always go away. Sometimes you forget about it, amid all the day-to-day aggravation. But if you started out truly passionate about the work itself, and not just the novelty of it, then that never really goes away. It would be great if everyone could find that kind of job, but most people never do. You may be one of the unlucky ones. And yet at some point you have to grow up and start earning your own living anyway.

Being out of school and in the working world is scary at first, especially when you still have a lot to learn in your field despite your many years of education. I've been there. But to go back to school before you've faced that demon and conquered it is like going back home to live with your parents after college. No matter how you rationalize it to yourself, you've failed to make the transition to adulthood. And that should send up a red flag to anyone reviewing your application for further education.

Like it or not, you need to leave the womb for a few years. And then at the end of that time, if you still want to go back and get into another field, great! But do so because you truly are interested in another field, not because you're afraid of life outside academia.

 

[dockdock]

I'm 40 years old and an MS2. At 40, I know *plenty* about how people change as they age.

The fact is DazedMD can't face the real world - responsibilities and interacting with people. He (or she, I forget) has been in school his whole life and is freaking out at the possibility of having to leave school.

Wow. That's all I can say: wow.

Your post implies that you can analyze DazedMD's personality right over the internet, just by reading a forum post. I don't think you (or anyone else) can make any accurate judgement about him/her in this manner.

 

[InfraMan]

This is not meant as an attack in any way, DazedMD, but I think there's a key difference between you and InfraMan. He worked for quite some time in his other profession before going to medical school, and from the sound of it, didn't go to med school in order to escape the demands of his prior profession.

As for me, I went to med school because it was a more hard core version of what I already knew I enjoyed. But I spent several years working in that profession beforehand, and although it wasn't by choice, I'm very glad now that I did.

I take issue with you both on medicine as a job vs. a calling. I don't believe it's a calling, but I don't think it's just a job either. You should enjoy what you do, and passion doesn't always go away. Sometimes you forget about it, amid all the day-to-day aggravation. But if you started out truly passionate about the work itself, and not just the novelty of it, then that never really goes away. It would be great if everyone could find that kind of job, but most people never do. You may be one of the unlucky ones. And yet at some point you have to grow up and start earning your own living anyway.

Being out of school and in the working world is scary at first, especially when you still have a lot to learn in your field despite your many years of education. I've been there. But to go back to school before you've faced that demon and conquered it is like going back home to live with your parents after college. No matter how you rationalize it to yourself, you've failed to make the transition to adulthood. And that should send up a red flag to anyone reviewing your application for further education.

Like it or not, you need to leave the womb for a few years. And then at the end of that time, if you still want to go back and get into another field, great! But do so because you truly are interested in another field, not because you're afraid of life outside academia.

Quoted for truth.

DazedMd - read Samoa's post again. He said very well what I wanted to say. He's trying to help you, as am I.

I've got to go. Responsibilities, you know.

 

[dockdock]

This is not meant as an attack in any way, DazedMD, but I think there's a key difference between you and InfraMan. He worked for quite some time in his other profession before going to medical school, and from the sound of it, didn't go to med school in order to escape the demands of his prior profession.

As for me, I went to med school because it was a more hard core version of what I already knew I enjoyed. But I spent several years working in that profession beforehand, and although it wasn't by choice, I'm very glad now that I did.

I take issue with you both on medicine as a job vs. a calling. I don't believe it's a calling, but I don't think it's just a job either. You should enjoy what you do, and passion doesn't always go away. Sometimes you forget about it, amid all the day-to-day aggravation. But if you started out truly passionate about the work itself, and not just the novelty of it, then that never really goes away. It would be great if everyone could find that kind of job, but most people never do. You may be one of the unlucky ones. And yet at some point you have to grow up and start earning your own living anyway.

Being out of school and in the working world is scary at first, especially when you still have a lot to learn in your field despite your many years of education. I've been there. But to go back to school before you've faced that demon and conquered it is like going back home to live with your parents after college. No matter how you rationalize it to yourself, you've failed to make the transition to adulthood. And that should send up a red flag to anyone reviewing your application for further education.

Like it or not, you need to leave the womb for a few years. And then at the end of that time, if you still want to go back and get into another field, great! But do so because you truly are interested in another field, not because you're afraid of life outside academia.

Jeez, it seems the only people replying to this message are cantakerous old codgers!

Well, old-timers, in modern America, people very very often move back in with their parents during the first few years out of college. This isn't 1855 anymore--there's often no severe pressure to go buy your own plot of land and get a teenaged bride and start your own farm. FOUR of my close friends from college, in fields as diverse as engineering to business to political science, moved back home for a bit while transitioning between early jobs.

Who says DazedMD is trying to escape the demands of medicine? Maybe medicine isn't what he wants to do. You old timers are so proud of the intense amount of work that goes into medicine--would you so proudly put in that work in the field of law? How about politics? Would you work 90 hours a week on a campaign trail? How about engineering? Would you be so proud to put in double-overtime to get the new power plant on-line?

My point is that you chose medicine and you're so proud of your hard work in medicine BECAUSE YOU'RE INTERESTED IN MEDICINE. What if you weren't interested in medicine? Would you be so preachy then?

I graduated from a US med school but didn't do residency; you might chastise me for being afraid of the real world. Well, I have 2 jobs, I'm taking classes, I'm working more hours than I did in med school, but I LOVE IT.

 

[Samoa]

Jeez, it seems the only people replying to this message are cantakerous old codgers!

Well, old-timers, in modern America, people very very often move back in with their parents during the first few years out of college. This isn't 1855 anymore--there's often no severe pressure to go buy your own plot of land and get a teenaged bride and start your own farm. FOUR of my close friends from college, in fields as diverse as engineering to business to political science, moved back home for a bit while transitioning between early jobs.

Who says DazedMD is trying to escape the demands of medicine? Maybe medicine isn't what he wants to do. You old timers are so proud of the intense amount of work that goes into medicine--would you so proudly put in that work in the field of law? How about politics? Would you work 90 hours a week on a campaign trail? How about engineering? Would you be so proud to put in double-overtime to get the new power plant on-line?

My point is that you chose medicine and you're so proud of your hard work in medicine BECAUSE YOU'RE INTERESTED IN MEDICINE. What if you weren't interested in medicine? Would you be so preachy then?

I graduated from a US med school but didn't do residency; you might chastise me for being afraid of the real world. Well, I have 2 jobs, I'm taking classes, I'm working more hours than I did in med school, but I LOVE IT.

Good lord you're defensive! To answer your question, though, yes, I'd put in the work, at least for a few years. You may very well find your niche and be quite happy with your life.

And did it ever occur to you that the people who've been there, and have some perspective (the "old codgers") might just be exactly the people who know what they're talking about? Sure, you could get a bunch of answers from people who went straight through medical school, and are just at the end of it and facing the same dilemma. But how valuable is that advice? Those people don't know what's ahead, any more than DazedMD does.

As for you and your situation, we're not here to debate that. But clearly I hit a nerve, and your defensiveness speaks volumes.

 

[McDoctor]

Hey everyone,

I graduated from medical school in May, but did not apply for residency. I have mixed feelings about if I even want to practice medicine. I loved the first two years of medical school but hated the last two for the most part. I really don't enjoy H&P's. To tell you the truth I don't even get motivated by physical diagnosis for the most part unless the patient has a very interesting illness or any type of cancer.

Although I started studying for step 3 and enjoy studying medicine a lot. I'm fascinated by studying medicine but not by practicing it. So what am I supposed to do with my life??

Lately I have been talking to the pharmacy school and also to the pharmacology PhD people. Since I love biochemistry and pharmacology a PharmD seems like the best option. I am very detail oriented and love mechanisms.

I thought I wanted to do pathology but eliminated that after some elective rotations. I definitely don't want to do surgery, ob, peds or psych.

So that leaves me with IM, rads, or gas. But I didn't even do elective rotations in any of these my 4 th year so I don't know how to go about even trying to see if I would like these specialites. I'm shut out of clinical work because I'm not insured by any form of malpractice.

I am 26 now. Would start pharmacy school at 27. Complete the program by age 30 or 31 depending on if it takes me 3 or 4 years.

My question is what should I do? PharmD or continue with medicine. I really am not happy doing H&Ps, presenting patients, etc. So will it get better in residency or should I assume that it's time to walk away. I am also concerned with money and time. salary of $100K with PharmD plus paying for 4 more years of school vs potential for a lot more.

I would appreciate your insight.

You should look for the lightest traditional rotating internship you can find (though all will be challenging) and stick it out for a year if only to obtain a license. Then if you wanted to continue in school, maybe go for a Ph.D. and look into research or teaching opportunities. But I'd do an internship, since the M.D. degree alone does not qualify you for much, but doing an internship and passing step III legitimizes the degree to a larger extent.

Either way, sounds like you're still reasonably young enough to switch gears as far as your career goes and still have time to pay off your loans, debt, etc. But consider doing an internship and taking step III, so that your MD degree carries more weight.

 

[dockdock]

As for you and your situation, we're not here to debate that. But clearly I hit a nerve, and your defensiveness speaks volumes.

Exactly. It speaks volumes about how people in the medical field like to say, "Medicine is very hard work, and I love very hard work, and you should too, and if you don't want to do medicine, it must be because you don't want to work very hard."

At any rate, the OP posted a question about various career paths, and certain people chose instead to berate him for not wanting to work hard--for wanting to "stay in the womb," and never leave school (which are both very extravagent conclusions to draw).

Your offensiveness speaks volumes.

 

[erichaj]

I just saw an ad in JAMA, FDA is hiring researchers. It did not say anything about having done residency, it just said you had to be an MD or DO.

 

[Samoa]

Exactly. It speaks volumes about how people in the medical field like to say, "Medicine is very hard work, and I love very hard work, and you should too, and if you don't want to do medicine, it must be because you don't want to work very hard."

At any rate, the OP posted a question about various career paths, and certain people chose instead to berate him for not wanting to work hard--for wanting to "stay in the womb," and never leave school (which are both very extravagent conclusions to draw).

His subsequent posts made it very clear that his motivation was to stay in school because he likes being a student. Just because you call it an extravagant conclusion, doesn't mean that it is one.

Your offensiveness speaks volumes.

nice. you berate me for offering a perspective born of experience, and then call ME offensive. that's pretty offensive in itself.

 

[DazedMD]

I just saw an ad in JAMA, FDA is hiring researchers. It did not say anything about having done residency, it just said you had to be an MD or DO.

I ran across the same ad a few days ago and sent in my resume!!!