Try to go for AOA or gun for research?

[The Last Ankibender]

I am having this dilemma

I am at a unranked US MD School with the horrible,traditional letter grade system. My curriculum focus so much on tiny details and stupid Phd minutae question. I am currently barely getting A. Pretty certain I am currently Top 10-15% of my class. The problem is the following, Studying is taking all my time, I can’t do research because for getting the A i need to work extremely hard.

Should I make time for research and start pumping pubs by sacrificing getting some B in a couple of course. and not getting AOA. I think I will go down to Top 30ish

Or continue grinding trying to get to that Top 10 to get AOA. And just do research as a MS3.

My plan is to go into IM with plans of Cardiology. But also interested in other specialty like ortho, rads or pain med.

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[JP2740]

Do both. AoA>chance of publishing in the next year in my humble opinion.

 

[veebo]

AOA is more important for IM than research. Just have some research experience and if you can get a pub or two out of it that is great. If not, showing interest in research with an abstract, poster, or something less work-intensive will round out your app enough. You're only really standing out research wise if you have PhD level research or pubs in amazing journals, which is generally not feasible for a med student in the three years before apps.

 

[Lawpy]

AOA >>>>>>>>>>>>> research hands down

Research isn't that important for IM because top schools by their nature are far superior on this. AOA is everything.

 

[The Last Ankibender]

Wow didn’t thought AOA was so important.
What about other specialty like ortho?

 

[Qwerty122]

One girl from my institution matched at Hopkins ortho with very minimal research, but was AOA. I know this is n = 1, but if you had to choose between getting 10 pubs/4th quartile student vs 2 pubs/AOA, choose the latter.

 

[frenchyn]

One girl from my institution matched at Hopkins ortho with very minimal research, but was AOA. I know this is n = 1, but if you had to choose between getting 10 pubs/4th quartile student vs 2 pubs/AOA, choose the latter.

Did she do subI at Hopskin?

 

[Qwerty122]

Did she do subI at Hopskin?

Very likely, I don't know her full story nor CV unfortunately. Good AOA + good impressions on aways/subIs are the dynamic duo.

 

[Lawpy]

One girl from my institution matched at Hopkins ortho with very minimal research, but was AOA. I know this is n = 1, but if you had to choose between getting 10 pubs/4th quartile student vs 2 pubs/AOA, choose the latter.

Yep. I think AOA and even unique good ECs are badly underrated on SDN, and research is very very overrated. AOA is huge

 

[Qwerty122]

Yep. I think AOA and even unique good ECs are badly underrated on SDN, and research is very very overrated. AOA is huge

n the sdn radiology forum, they had a Q&A with a PD from a "pretty good" West Coast program, and he basically said you're 99% getting interviewed if you're AOA, while research and ECs are mostly glanced over, simply due to the volume of apps they have to filter through. Again, don't know how generalizable this is to other programs and other specialties, but just putting this information out there.

 

[AzBasRad]

AOA >>>>>>>>>>>>> research hands down

Research isn't that important for IM because top schools by their nature are far superior on this. AOA is everything.

This right here. Refer to your institutions prior match list and look up if those people who matched competitively are in AOA.

IM also cares somewhat about activism as well. At my low-tier institution, students with >250 step scores + AOA + *some research* + *major activism* matched top 10.

There as a thread that recently discussed AOA in the context of IM residency.

Advantage of School Pedigree on Internal Medicine Residency Matching

What advantage does going to a top 20/10 institution bring when it comes to matching a top IM academic residency?

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[JP2740]

AOA is just an easy filter that says you were among the best at your school. It is meaningful.

https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2020_MD-Senior_final.pdf

look at this. Go to the competitive field like ortho: 260 match, 18 unmatched for AOA. 619 match 150 unmatched for non AOA.

 

[longhaul3]

AOA is just an easy filter that says you were among the best at your school. It is meaningful.

https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2020_MD-Senior_final.pdf

look at this. Go to the competitive field like ortho: 260 match, 18 unmatched for AOA. 619 match 150 unmatched for non AOA.

I agree for the most part, but the data you're pointing to don't demonstrate causality. The best students are likely to have the best matches and are also more likely to be AOA. In fact some schools now elect AOA after the match, so sure, the percent matched for AOA is higher than not, but some students are not even making AOA until after the match anyway, so it is clearly not impacting their match as an independent variable.

 

[JP2740]

I agree for the most part, but the data you're pointing to don't demonstrate causality. The best students are likely to have the best matches and are also more likely to be AOA. In fact some schools now elect AOA after the match, so sure, the percent matched for AOA is higher than not, but some students are not even making AOA until after the match anyway, so it is clearly not impacting their match as an independent variable.

So you're saying if he or she gets AOA, they're likely to have been the best student in that class?

 

[Dwan]

I am having this dilemma

I am at a unranked US MD School with the horrible,traditional letter grade system. My curriculum focus so much on tiny details and stupid Phd minutae question. I am currently barely getting A. Pretty certain I am currently Top 10-15% of my class. The problem is the following, Studying is taking all my time, I can’t do research because for getting the A i need to work extremely hard.

Should I make time for research and start pumping pubs by sacrificing getting some B in a couple of course. and not getting AOA. I think I will go down to Top 30ish

Or continue grinding trying to get to that Top 10 to get AOA. And just do research as a MS3.

My plan is to go into IM with plans of Cardiology. But also interested in other specialty like ortho, rads or pain med.

For IM, AOA is much more important than research. For fellowship, research is much more important than AOA (although AOA will help with getting a good program, which is very helpful for fellowship). You'll have plenty of time to do research later on up until fellowship applications, so go for AOA right now.

 

[Lawpy]

For IM, AOA is much more important than research. For fellowship, research is much more important than AOA (although AOA will help with getting a good program, which is very helpful for fellowship). You'll have plenty of time to do research later on up until fellowship applications, so go for AOA right now.

Agreed. IM research is very easy to get by working with residents who need the research for fellowship apps. There is no reason to focus on this until AOA is achieved

 

[longhaul3]

So you're saying if he or she gets AOA, they're likely to have been the best student in that class?

I'm saying that being the best student in the class makes one both more likely to be AOA and more likely to have a strong match independently of each other. I do believe that AOA independently improves match outcomes to an extent, but it is confounded.

 

[JP2740]

I'm saying that being the best student in the class makes one both more likely to be AOA and more likely to have a strong match independently of each other. I do believe that AOA independently improves match outcomes to an extent, but it is confounded.

Yes so Youre saying if he or she gets AOA this person is more likely to the best in the class/strong match.

 

[7331poas]

kinda screwed up for students at schools without AOA i guess.

 

[longhaul3]

Yes so Youre saying if he or she gets AOA this person is more likely to the best in the class/strong match.

Yes but not strictly because of AOA. That is my point.