Tulane Genetics vs. Georgetown SMP

[whipz]

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So recently got into Tulane for their one-year Masters program in Genetics and Georgetown for their SMP. I was curious what you guys think would be a better option for my particular situation. I understand there are MANY other factors to play in as well but for my sake, consider those unimportant as of now. The most important thing is going somewhere that will help me get into medical school (applying for 2015 entry, will have a glide year)

Undergrad GPA - 3.6
Undergrad science GPA - 3.5
MCAT - 28R (unfortunately, that was my highest of 3 tries for reasons I don't want to get into)

Also I want to volunteer maybe once a week or something or perhaps do some research (although not likely) while in the program. I potentially could take the MCAT again but 3 attempts is already a red flag, and unless I'm going to get a significantly higher result, I don't want to risk a fourth low score.

Tulane: http://tulane.edu/som/hayward-genetics/education-masters-program.cfm
Georgetown: http://smp.georgetown.edu/

Thanks!

 

[whipz]

Oh and if it matters, I have an upward trend on my MCAT scores.

 

[deleted248403]

Apply DO.... going to struggle to get into an MD with a 28

 

[whipz]

I am absolutely going to apply DO as well, but not without at least trying to get into an MD first, haha. Obviously I am at a HUGE disadvantage with that score and I would have to offset it with great GPA, letters, research, clinical experience, etc. That being said, odds aren't in my favor but it's worth a shot 🙂. I think I'm leaning towards the SMP at Georgetown.

 

[deleted248403]

I am absolutely going to apply DO as well, but not without at least trying to get into an MD first, haha. Obviously I am at a HUGE disadvantage with that score and I would have to offset it with great GPA, letters, research, clinical experience, etc. That being said, odds aren't in my favor but it's worth a shot 🙂. I think I'm leaning towards the SMP at Georgetown.

No you are missing my point.

A 28 and an SMP do not equal MD. SMPs do not make up for poor mcats

 

[plasmamorris]

robflanker is right in saying that an SMP does not improve your MCAT score. Understandably, you probably won't be a competitive for a good number of MD schools, but I don't think that kills your chances at lower tier MD schools. Neither of the programs listed will improve your shot at MD schools because their entire issue with your application stats-wise will be related to your MCAT. That said, if you're set on attending an SMP - I'd go for Georgetown. I haven't heard much with regard to Tulane Genetics.

 

[whipz]

I see what you are saying. I understand it doesn't make up for it at all, I guess I was hoping that doing well in classes with the MS-I students would lift my credibility for medical school even slightly. Maybe it would be better to save the money and build on whatever I can. Anyways, I will still apply to both DO and MD.

 

[plasmamorris]

Yeah - I mean it seems like that would be the rational understanding, right? That doing well with M1s would dictate success in med school - but from what admissions officers have told me, your GPA and MCAT are a metric for two concerns: 1) can you handle the curriculum (your GPA and sGPA will deal with this question) 2) can you pass the boards reliably after 2nd year (your MCAT gives them some idea). Others will jump up and shout - the MCAT is not a predictor of Step success, and I'll clarify that I'm not saying it is or that it's right. More what I think they look at with the MCAT is do you have a good history of standardized test taking. They don't care so much about projecting your exact step score or seeing if you'll score above a 260 - but they want to know whether you'll pass the boards to begin with. SMPs are designed to tackle the first question - so applicants with low GPAs need to show they can handle med school curricula. Your GPA seems to be fine.

All that being said - if you have confidence that your grades won't tank, if you have the money and finally if you have the heart to go through a year of rigorous work - an SMP like Georgetown will make your first year in med school much easier. Everyone's circumstances and resources are different.

 

[deleted248403]

robflanker is right in saying that an SMP does not improve your MCAT score. Understandably, you probably won't be a competitive for a good number of MD schools, but I don't think that kills your chances at lower tier MD schools. Neither of the programs listed will improve your shot at MD schools because their entire issue with your application stats-wise will be related to your MCAT. That said, if you're set on attending an SMP - I'd go for Georgetown. I haven't heard much with regard to Tulane Genetics.

I go to a "mid-to-low tier" medical school and our entering class had an MCAT average of 32.....

An SMP is a waste for you

 

[plasmamorris]

I go to a "mid-to-low tier" medical school and our entering class had an MCAT average of 32.....

That's great - wasn't particularly talking about borderline mid-tiers, but okay. Again legitimately low-tier MD schools still have their avgs hovering around 30 with kids getting in with 28s and 29s. Since we're talking avgs - my school has an avg of 30. I know for a fact that my MD school has kids with 28s and 29s in all of the different classes.

OP - grab a full version of the MSAR and look at ranges of MCAT scores for schools. Avgs help gauge if that 28 or 29 is anomalous (ie. 1 kid had a 28 but everything else was awesome).

robflanker and I can go back and forth on the merits of applying to a low-tier or what categorizes a low-tier but honestly that doesn't help you or anyone else reading this thread.

 

[MDforMee]

I go to a "mid-to-low tier" medical school and our entering class had an MCAT average of 32.....

An SMP is a waste for you

If robflanker were a more polite gentleman, and less black and white, what he'd say is:

"Thanks for your post. It looks as if the MCAT has been a source of worry for you based on the number of times you've taken it. While I wouldn't want to rub salt in your wounds, I should be forthcoming in the fact that the MCAT is a part of medical school admissions that can't be overlooked. Since your GPA is good, however, I recommend that you apply broadly and highlight the other parts of your application that speak to your genuine interest in practicing medicine."

On the other hand, a poster like me will tell you that Tulane has, what is it, 4 preparatory medical school bridge programs like this, and only one of them has a linkage?

If you're set on Tulane, I'd pick the program with the most applicability to your future career goals. I hate to say it, but genetics in medicine is mostly surface level stuff. You'll have to stay up on current research in your specialty, and genetics is a part of that, too, but when it comes to doing clinical work, you aren't going to be drawing family trees, predicting if there are chromosomal problems occurring, or trying to figure out whatever else may be going on genetically on a basis that requires a graduate degree in the field.

Tulane has another program in pharmacology that I believe will better prepare you for medicine. I've spoken with them a few times, and while I'm not applying to or attending this program, I am doing a masters in pharmacology and toxicology next year, where I will get more pharmacology exposure than medical students, and be WAY ahead of the game when it comes to applying cell/body physio, biochemistry, and other medical school core courses to clinical work, and it may even help me into a residency, as well.

I chose this path because I don't need to prove myself, academically, to an admissions committee. I want to do something that will help my future goals, and not necessarily get me into medical school. I'm interested in the subject, and want to do research in it possibly during and after medical school, as well. In the same way, you need to avoid doing a program because you think it will help you get into medical school. Admissions personnel have stressed this to me MANY times.

With your GPA I'd avoid Georgetown. That's a big risk, and a lot of money.

 

[deleted248403]

If robflanker were a more polite gentleman, and less black and white, what he'd say is:

"Thanks for your post. It looks as if the MCAT has been a source of worry for you based on the number of times you've taken it. While I wouldn't want to rub salt in your wounds, I should be forthcoming in the fact that the MCAT is a part of medical school admissions that can't be overlooked. Since your GPA is good, however, I recommend that you apply broadly and highlight the other parts of your application that speak to your genuine interest in practicing medicine."

On the other hand, a poster like me will tell you that Tulane has, what is it, 4 preparatory medical school bridge programs like this, and only one of them has a linkage?

If you're set on Tulane, I'd pick the program with the most applicability to your future career goals. I hate to say it, but genetics in medicine is mostly surface level stuff. You'll have to stay up on current research in your specialty, and genetics is a part of that, too, but when it comes to doing clinical work, you aren't going to be drawing family trees, predicting if there are chromosomal problems occurring, or trying to figure out whatever else may be going on genetically on a basis that requires a graduate degree in the field.

Tulane has another program in pharmacology that I believe will better prepare you for medicine. I've spoken with them a few times, and while I'm not applying to or attending this program, I am doing a masters in pharmacology and toxicology next year, where I will get more pharmacology exposure than medical students, and be WAY ahead of the game when it comes to applying cell/body physio, biochemistry, and other medical school core courses to clinical work, and it may even help me into a residency, as well.

I chose this path because I don't need to prove myself, academically, to an admissions committee. I want to do something that will help my future goals, and not necessarily get me into medical school. I'm interested in the subject, and want to do research in it possibly during and after medical school, as well. In the same way, you need to avoid doing a program because you think it will help you get into medical school. Admissions personnel have stressed this to me MANY times.

With your GPA I'd avoid Georgetown. That's a big risk, and a lot of money.

Ah resurfaced after everyone stomped all over your ridiculous and inaccurate opinions on everything to do with California? Welcome back.

 

[Toss]

Undergrad GPA - 3.6
Undergrad science GPA - 3.5
MCAT - 28R (unfortunately, that was my highest of 3 tries for reasons I don't want to get into)

SMPs are a way to make up for poor undergrad GPA, provided that the rest of your application is strong. The only SMPs that would be useful to you in your situation are the ones that have extremely strong linkage (on the level of Tulane ACP and RFU BMS).

The best thing you can do is take a whole year off, use that to study for the MCAT, and see if you can get a 35+.

 

[MDforMee]

Ah resurfaced after everyone stomped all over your ridiculous and inaccurate opinions on everything to do with California? Welcome back.

Charming, as always. And to answer your question, quite the opposite, actually.

Our styles may be different, but we are trying to accomplish the same things, really. Why not put the past behind us? Give me a hug, fuzzy wuzzy?

 

[darklabel]

I think a lot of people are missing robflanker's point. He said that MD would be a struggle with a 28 but not impossible.

A 28 and a 4.0 SMP may lead to a few interviews. Talk to the program director, which should know about their SMP's med school to see what your chances are. Since you're taking a glide year, a 28 and a very high SMP GPA should net you an interview in at least your program's MD school.

Robflanker's blunt but he's right. It will be a struggle with a 28 in other MD schools, but once again, it doesn't mean it's impossible.

 

[HumGenetics]

I know this is an old post, but as the Director of the Master's in Medical Genetics and Genomics at Tulane (our new name!) I would like to add some thoughts and information. I am also on the Admissions committee for Tulane Medical School.

First, while a 28 makes it more difficult for this person, it does not mean Medical school is impossible. I do believe medical schools do try to be holistic in their admissions - it is more than numbers. I also agree with whoever said that a post-bac - while useful - is less useful to someone whose undergraduate grades are good. I feel we help the students whose undergrads grades are a little low the most. I also believe (with no hard data, but based on multiple reports from my alumni) - that students do better on the MCATS after going through our program than before. We try to teach critical thinking and of course they get lots of genetics and some biochem. And I think the critical thinking/how to critically review the literature/how to interpret statistical tests will be especially helpful for the new MCATS.

Now: as to whether a student should choice our program verses the Georgetown SMP - I usually tell students to think about what they like. I have a passion for Medical Genetics as does all my faculty. And I believe genetics will affect every specialty and is the wave of the future of medicine. We want students who are interested in genetics. I think almost all Post-bacs are close to equal in terms of helping you get into medical school. Admission depends on so many factors that the post-bac is just one. It is useful for showing you can do graduate level academics. So choosing among them I believe, should be more about what you will enjoy learning for that year.

Anyone with more questions about our Master's please email me at; [email protected]