Two away rotation questions

[Amxcvbcv]

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First, is it better to do away rotations at places in which you're interested before or after interviews? It seems to me that it would be better to do it in the July to September time frame, so a place that might not otherwise interview you will have the benefit of having seen you in action (assuming you don't do something to hurt your chances). On the other hand, that's generally a busy time of year for everyone, and I still see 4th years here visiting in the Spring, some even after match day.

Second, what do most folks do for lodging if they don't have family/friends in the area? Transportation is already expensive enough without trying to do something stupid like stay in a hotel for 2-4 weeks.

Thanks. 🙂

 

[Ashers]

First, is it better to do away rotations at places in which you're interested before or after interviews? It seems to me that it would be better to do it in the July to September time frame, so a place that might not otherwise interview you will have the benefit of having seen you in action (assuming you don't do something to hurt your chances). On the other hand, that's generally a busy time of year for everyone, and I still see 4th years here visiting in the Spring, some even after match day.

Second, what do most folks do for lodging if they don't have family/friends in the area? Transportation is already expensive enough without trying to do something stupid like stay in a hotel for 2-4 weeks.

Thanks. 🙂

I can only partially answer the first one. The info I have is based on the specialty I want to go into. I've looked up stuff for ortho at a few schools, but I'm in the same stage you are since, I'm an M3. From what I've read at different schools' sites, the away rotation is often your interview. Which is why it is good to do it early. For example, the University of Arizona recommends between July and November for their ortho rotation. Also, at my home school, doing a sub-I in ortho is also your interview, with a short day in January or something meeting with all the other applicants from the school.

I don't think the timing matters as much if the rotation you're doing is in a specialty you're not considering.

As for going places without family/friends, no idea. Maybe people use Craig's list.

I'm basically looking at places where I still have a place to live (my old college condo), and other fun away rotations where friends/family live (England and Hawaii).

 

[Law2Doc]

On the other hand, that's generally a busy time of year for everyone, and I still see 4th years here visiting in the Spring, some even after match day.

Agree with Ashers above. There is really no point in doing an away rotation after match day. The point of an away rotation is to "audition" to a department, in the hopes that you can build enough support, through your affable personality and strong work ethic, for them to rank you highly. Once match is over, you should just do whatever requirements you have left, check out things at your own school that you have an interest in, and otherwise coast until graduation.

 

[ineedsleep]

As everybody else has stated, do aways in the specialty and places you are considering for residency early. Also, you can ask the school if they have a list of residents/attendings that have a room you could rent for the time (cheaper than a hotel, but not as good as family or friends). I know some people who are doing aways later like Nov. on, but mostly these are fun like psych in Hawaii or a rotation where they have friends or family for a bit of a working vacation.

 

[njbmd]

First, is it better to do away rotations at places in which you're interested before or after interviews? It seems to me that it would be better to do it in the July to September time frame, so a place that might not otherwise interview you will have the benefit of having seen you in action (assuming you don't do something to hurt your chances). On the other hand, that's generally a busy time of year for everyone, and I still see 4th years here visiting in the Spring, some even after match day.

Second, what do most folks do for lodging if they don't have family/friends in the area? Transportation is already expensive enough without trying to do something stupid like stay in a hotel for 2-4 weeks.

Thanks. 🙂

Many places will grant you an interview if you are doing an AI with them. If you are doing an "audition" rotation (meaning you want them to consider you for a residency slot) do your rotation earlier (the earlier the better). Some people do away electives to get experience that they would not be able to obtain at their school rather than to try to make themselves more competitive for residency.

Also be aware that many of the top places will want you to "apply" for an elective rotation. This can take some time so make your choices early just in case you have to apply.

In terms of housing, once your rotation is set, ask the residency coordinator where visiting medical students live. Some places may have discounted lodging for you that is within walking distance of the hospital. If not, use Craigslist and look for temporally housing/sublet. There are some places like Boston, that are just difficult to find great housing for a month that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Also beware that many places won't interview you unless you do an AI with them so again, early is better than later if you contemplate applying for a residency slot with a particular program.

 

[felipe5]

i agree with all of the info posted here...for housing, I ended up contacting the school of medicine where I was going to rotate at to see if they have a listserve of students looking to sublet while out on their own externships....I was given a student's email addy and although our dates didn't work out she sent out a pan-email to her class and I got like 6 responses within a day. just keep that in mind!

 

[FMGP8P]

Right now I have time open for an away rotation in November, but could free up time in September if I reschedule an elective. I'm starting to think that it might be awkward doing an away rotation while they're interviewing students. When do you consider it too late for an audition rotation and what are some reasons to do it earlier (and how early)?

Many places will grant you an interview if you are doing an AI with them. If you are doing an "audition" rotation (meaning you want them to consider you for a residency slot) do your rotation earlier (the earlier the better). Some people do away electives to get experience that they would not be able to obtain at their school rather than to try to make themselves more competitive for residency.

Also be aware that many of the top places will want you to "apply" for an elective rotation. This can take some time so make your choices early just in case you have to apply.

In terms of housing, once your rotation is set, ask the residency coordinator where visiting medical students live. Some places may have discounted lodging for you that is within walking distance of the hospital. If not, use Craigslist and look for temporally housing/sublet. There are some places like Boston, that are just difficult to find great housing for a month that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Also beware that many places won't interview you unless you do an AI with them so again, early is better than later if you contemplate applying for a residency slot with a particular program.

 

[Ypo.]

1) Many programs will help you find affordable housing in the area. One place I've applied at rents an apartment for $150 a month located 1 mile from the clinic. The other program provides free housing (but this is rare). You need to ask the office if they will help you find housing.

2) Doing an away rotation after interviews (but before the match) can also help you in the process. One friend of mine did this last year and said it really made a difference for him. However, like you say, doing a rotation before interviews will help you get an invite at the more competitive programs.

3) Doing an away rotation in November. I would ask the program if they will let you off for interviews for a couple of days. I plan on doing an away rotation that ends Nov. 20. They said that many students take a few days for interviews and it's not a problem. However, not all places will interview you while you are doing a rotation there, so don't plan on being able to save money by doing an interview during your rotation (but it doesn't hurt to ask as long as it's not explicitly stated).

 

[Ypo.]

Also beware that many places won't interview you unless you do an AI with them so again, early is better than later if you contemplate applying for a residency slot with a particular program.

Really? I find this difficult to believe. Programs interview a ton of applicants; there wouldn't be enough time for all the interviewees to have done an AI.

 

[GoBuckeyes913]

Really? I find this difficult to believe. Programs interview a ton of applicants; there wouldn't be enough time for all the interviewees to have done an AI.

I've also never heard of a program that won't interview unless you've rotated there.... However, I do know that many programs would give a student that rotated through their program an interview over someone who didn't. It can definitely give you an edge over another applicant.

First, is it better to do away rotations at places in which you're interested before or after interviews? It seems to me that it would be better to do it in the July to September time frame, so a place that might not otherwise interview you will have the benefit of having seen you in action (assuming you don't do something to hurt your chances). On the other hand, that's generally a busy time of year for everyone, and I still see 4th years here visiting in the Spring, some even after match day.

Second, what do most folks do for lodging if they don't have family/friends in the area? Transportation is already expensive enough without trying to do something stupid like stay in a hotel for 2-4 weeks.

Thanks. 🙂

You are going to want to do your "audition" rotations from before interview season until the Match. Most places start interviewing late in the year (i.e. Nov). I also suggest applying for electives early, and double and triple booking in case the one you want is booked for the timeslot you wanted. I suggest going to the AMA website (or the whatever program you are interested in) and search FREIDA online to see specific interview dates of the programs you plan on applying to.

If its not listed on the website, you can call the office of wherever you are rotating to find out the housing situation. Some places have housing for students, some don't. If they don't provide housing, they will usually have a list of places you can rent/sub for the month. If not, Craigslist some roomates.

 

[Amxcvbcv]

Thanks for the advice!

I sent out applications mid-February. Unfortunately, all of the places I'm looking at don't start reviewing them until late April/early May.

 

[traumadrama]

I'm a 3rd year about to be 4th year rotating in Olympia Fields (south of Chicago) in August. I tried contacting the residency program for housing information but they were not helpful. There's no way I will be able to go if I have to stay in an extended stay and I would rather stay with students, interns or residents as opposed to a stranger off craig's list. If you know any listservs at MWU-CCOM or the areas surrounding Olympia Fields/Chicago Heights, please let me know. I would be eternally grateful🙂

 

[yeasterbunny]

Maybe this has been said and I missed it, but "audition" is not the only purpose for an away rotation. Especially in fields where letters of recommendation carry a lot of weight, and especially if you are hurting for good letters from your home program (i.e. many schools don't even have their own rad onc residency program), it can be useful to do an away in a big famous place just to get to know some big names and get good letters from them. Even if you have no chance of matching at their program and there is thus no real audition value.

 

[xanthines]

Oh I don't know about that... I look at away rotations as vacations! 🙂 Never been to Alaska? Time to sign up for that family med elective! Tropics more your thing? Better start emailing people in Haiti or Costa Rica for that tropical medicine elective! Unless you really ARE interested in rural med or tropical med or ID, then when else are you realistically going to experience these things?

-X

Agree with Ashers above. There is really no point in doing an away rotation after match day. The point of an away rotation is to "audition" to a department, in the hopes that you can build enough support, through your affable personality and strong work ethic, for them to rank you highly. Once match is over, you should just do whatever requirements you have left, check out things at your own school that you have an interest in, and otherwise coast until graduation.

 

[QofQuimica]

Two more away rotation questions:

1) If you could do the away during any month you wanted, when would you do it? I'm thinking late spring/early summer would be the easiest time to schedule one in terms of beating the rush, but then are you too early for it to serve as an audition rotation where you'll be remembered?

2) If you do an away in May or June, is there any chance they would interview you then? It doesn't seem like they could since you won't have even submitted ERAS yet. Do most people who do aways before interview season end up coming back for a separate interview anyway? In other words, if you did one in September after submitting ERAS, could you interview then, but not if you did your away earlier (May through August)?

Ideally, I would like to set up an away at a time where a) I could still get a LOR, b) would be there recently enough to be remembered come November, and ideally, c) interview for residency while I'm already there. Am I asking too much?

 

[Amxcvbcv]

Two more away rotation questions:

1) If you could do the away during any month you wanted, when would you do it? I'm thinking late spring/early summer would be the easiest time to schedule one in terms of beating the rush, but then are you too early for it to serve as an audition rotation where you'll be remembered?

2) If you do an away in May or June, is there any chance they would interview you then? It doesn't seem like they could since you won't have even submitted ERAS yet. Do most people who do aways before interview season end up coming back for a separate interview anyway? In other words, if you did one in September after submitting ERAS, could you interview then, but not if you did your away earlier (May through August)?

Ideally, I would like to set up an away at a time where a) I could still get a LOR, b) would be there recently enough to be remembered come November, and ideally, c) interview for residency while I'm already there. Am I asking too much?

Ideally, aways should be done from July to November. I can't think of any programs that allow 3rd year students to do an away elective; all the programs I considered wanted you to have all of your core clinicals done before they'd even accept your application.

Nobody is going to do interviews before ERAS applications have been submitted.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Two more away rotation questions:

1) If you could do the away during any month you wanted, when would you do it? I'm thinking late spring/early summer would be the easiest time to schedule one in terms of beating the rush, but then are you too early for it to serve as an audition rotation where you'll be remembered?

2) If you do an away in May or June, is there any chance they would interview you then? It doesn't seem like they could since you won't have even submitted ERAS yet. Do most people who do aways before interview season end up coming back for a separate interview anyway? In other words, if you did one in September after submitting ERAS, could you interview then, but not if you did your away earlier (May through August)?

Ideally, I would like to set up an away at a time where a) I could still get a LOR, b) would be there recently enough to be remembered come November, and ideally, c) interview for residency while I'm already there. Am I asking too much?

I would agree with the above that an away should be later, during the typical "fourth year" schedule. I think waiting until Sept-Oct is probably beneficial, as any "good" rotation in July/August is likely to be filled up by the school's own students. The downside of waiting is that it may make it tougher to get a letter in a timely fashion.

I don't think all programs will interview you while you are there; I will be going back to the university I did my away at for a "real" interview in about a month (although I did get to meet with the PD while out there). It is nice and some programs do offer the interview while you are there, but I wouldn't count on it. I would really doubt you would be interviewed if you did an extremely early away like you are talking about.

 

[QofQuimica]

Ideally, aways should be done from July to November. I can't think of any programs that allow 3rd year students to do an away elective; all the programs I considered wanted you to have all of your core clinicals done before they'd even accept your application.

I'm not a third year student; I'm a fourth year student who is taking a year off for research, and my schedule is flexible if I plan far enough in advance. That's why I asked when people would do their aways if they could do them whenever they wanted. So if you could have done yours in the spring, would you have? Or do you still think I should wait until summer/fall like most people do?

I would agree with the above that an away should be later, during the typical "fourth year" schedule. I think waiting until Sept-Oct is probably beneficial, as any "good" rotation in July/August is likely to be filled up by the school's own students. The downside of waiting is that it may make it tougher to get a letter in a timely fashion.

Thanks, that basically answers the question I just asked.

I don't think all programs will interview you while you are there; I will be going back to the university I did my away at for a "real" interview in about a month (although I did get to meet with the PD while out there). It is nice and some programs do offer the interview while you are there, but I wouldn't count on it. I would really doubt you would be interviewed if you did an extremely early away like you are talking about.

It's too bad, but I kind of figured this would be the case.

 

[XRanger]

so generally you would want to do an away rotation before the interview season starts right? which before november. How many away rotations can you fit during that time? Let's say I'm interested in applying for residency at particular location and there are 3 residency programs around that location, so I want to do away at all 3 programs to maximize my chance of getting a residency at that location, is it possible? how long is away rotation usually?

 

[QofQuimica]

so generally you would want to do an away rotation before the interview season starts right? which before november. How many away rotations can you fit during that time? Let's say I'm interested in applying for residency at particular location and there are 3 residency programs around that location, so I want to do away at all 3 programs to maximize my chance of getting a residency at that location, is it possible? how long is away rotation usually?

I think they're almost always four weeks, so you should be able to fit four or even five of them in between July through November. Though you might go insane if you did that.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I think they're almost always four weeks, so you should be able to fit four or even five of them in between July through November. Though you might go insane if you did that.

Most people do 2 or less; some for fields like ortho or plastics might do 3. I have heard some people posit that doing 3 may make you seem "desperate" but have no clue as to any validity on that.

Additionally, my school will only allow 2 aways at most, and no more than 3 rotations in any one specific field. I know others have similar policies.

 

[QofQuimica]

Most people do 2 or less; some for fields like ortho or plastics might do 3. I have heard some people posit that doing 3 may make you seem "desperate" but have no clue as to any validity on that.

Additionally, my school will only allow 2 aways at most, and no more than 3 rotations in any one specific field. I know others have similar policies.

Interesting. I guess this is highly school-specific, because I could basically do my entire fourth year away if I wanted to, and I'm not aware of any limits on the number of electives that can be done in one specialty. Regardless, one away is going to be enough for me. It's not cheap setting these things up, and it's not like there aren't enough good electives at my home school. Mainly I just want to check out somewhere that I've never been and get an extra letter.

Thanks again for your input, Southern. You've been really helpful.

 

[thefafo]

I've done 4 away rotations, and it's the maximum that my med school will allow. I can tell you that it is insane, and totally absurd to do 4 away rotations. If I had to do it again, I would do 2. I did find really good deals everywhere I went, traveled to some new and exciting places, met great people, but it was still way more expensive and more exhausting than living at home. I also found out that one program was not for me, so it was at least informative too.