Typical starting salaries?

[iqureshi7]

A friend of mine, who is a resident in a community program in NJ, said most graduates are getting offers in the 180k range. I would appreciate your feedback on what others may have heard about starting salaries in your city/state. I think feedback from graduating residents give us a better gauge of the market rather than salary surveys. Also, has anyone heard what the typical starting salary ranges are for Child Psychiatry graduates?

Please state what city/state and whether hospital inpatient/private/academic.

Thanks alot for your input.

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[Doc Samson]

In Boston, it pretty much stratifies like this:

Harvard teaching hospital: ~115-120
Harvard community affiliate: ~125-130
Non-Harvard academic: ~130-140
Non-Harvard, Non-teaching hosptial: ~150s

Obviously, there's some variation, but that's pretty much how it breaks down. Not too much of a jump for child psychiatrists here either (we're really not underserved for any medical specialty).

 

[musm2008]

In Boston, it pretty much stratifies like this:

Harvard teaching hospital: ~115-120
Harvard community affiliate: ~125-130
Non-Harvard academic: ~130-140
Non-Harvard, Non-teaching hosptial: ~150s

Obviously, there's some variation, but that's pretty much how it breaks down. Not too much of a jump for child psychiatrists here either (we're really not underserved for any medical specialty).

Why do Harvard programs pay less? I guess I kinda thought pay would be higher in Boston anyway because there's a higher cost of living.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'm guessing like many places....prestige comes at a cost. I believe the Mayo Clinic pays less than other places (and has restrictions on speaking fees, etc), but if you want it on your resume...it is going to cost you a bit.

-t

 

[Doc Samson]

I'm guessing like many places....prestige comes at a cost. I believe the Mayo Clinic pays less than other places (and has restrictions on speaking fees, etc), but if you want it on your resume...it is going to cost you a bit.

-t

That pretty much covers it.

 

[billypilgrim37]

Cost of living may be higher, but so is the desire of people to live there. Physician salaries and cost of living show a strange inverse relationship. Or at least follows a formula like:

Salary + Coolness of place to live/work - Living Expenses = Constant.

The easiest way to make more salary as a psychiatrist is to practice somewhere where other psychiatrists don't want to practice. :0)

I'm sure that's true for all specialties to some degree, but I imagine that psychiatrists on average are a little more concerned with the cultural environs in which they live, which is they way I tend to explain the differential distribution of psychiatrists to metropolitan areas as compared to more rural areas, where mental health services are in even greater shortage than medical services in general.

 

[Doc Samson]

The other piece of it really is peculiar to Boston... we have a ridiculous amount of doctors. Every specialty is way over-represented since HMS has so many teaching hospitals, then you throw in two other major medical schools (Tufts and BU). For Psychiatry in particular, the highest density of psychiatrists per capita on earth is in Boston.

 

[jjmack]

The other piece of it really is peculiar to Boston... we have a ridiculous amount of doctors. Every specialty is way over-represented since HMS has so many teaching hospitals, then you throw in two other major medical schools (Tufts and BU). For Psychiatry in particular, the highest density of psychiatrists per capita on earth is in Boston.

I read somewhere that 23% of all boarded psychiatrists live in the NYC metro area.

 

[TheWowEffect]

The other piece of it really is peculiar to Boston... we have a ridiculous amount of doctors. Every specialty is way over-represented since HMS has so many teaching hospitals, then you throw in two other major medical schools (Tufts and BU). For Psychiatry in particular, the highest density of psychiatrists per capita on earth is in Boston.

I heard it was Washington DC 😉

 

[billydoc]

Oh, I thought it was in Seattle. After all Frazier Crane .... ....insert any sarcasm here. 😛

 

[billypilgrim37]

If someone throws in San Francisco, I think I'll have achieved p<.05 for my regression model of psychiatry salaries.

 

[iqureshi7]

Taken from: http://ap.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/27/4/247.pdf

TABLE 3. Number of Psychiatrists (Nonfederal) by State

Highest 5 Psychiatrist Child Psychiatrist
New York 5,347 778
California 5,046 688
Massachusetts 1,975 299
Pennsylvania 1,935 329
Texas 1,676 370

Lowest 5
Wyoming 29 4
Alaska 56 4
South Dakota 57 9
North Dakota 59 14
Idaho 60 17

Ratio of Psychiatrists/100,000 Population
Highest 5 Psychiatrist Child Psychiatrist

Massachusetts 31.1 4.7
New York 28.2 4.1
Pennsylvania 15.7 2.7
California 14.9 2.0
Texas 8.0 1.8

Lowest 5
Idaho 4.6 1.3
Wyoming 5.9 0.8
South Dakota 7.6 1.2
Alaska 8.9 0.64
North Dakota 9.2 2.7

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Taken from: http://ap.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/27/4/247.pdf
...
Ratio of Psychiatrists/100,000 Population
Highest 5 Psychiatrist Child Psychiatrist

Massachusetts 31.1 4.7
New York 28.2 4.1
Pennsylvania 15.7 2.7
California 14.9 2.0
Texas 8.0 1.8

Lowest 5
Idaho 4.6 1.3
Wyoming 5.9 0.8
South Dakota 7.6 1.2
Alaska 8.9 0.64
North Dakota 9.2 2.7

Go West, young shrink!😀

(Amazing to think that you could be the only psychiatrist for 10-25,000 potential patients in these states!)

 

[jjbmsiv]

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH go west young shrink.

But I don't wanna leave the mid-Atlantic! And I want to break 200k! AND do psychosomatic or emergency shrinkage. Should I keep dreaming?

 

[musm2008]

As far as practicing in Boston, do you still feel needed?

 

[Doc Samson]

As far as practicing in Boston, do you still feel needed?

Absolutely... especially as a consult psychiatrist. We get the tertiary and quaternary referrals from around the country and around the world - hospital beds are never empty. The other piece of this is that people don't usually get to be the worlds best [insert medical or surgical subspecialty here] based on their "people skills", so there's usually a lot of consults coming our way.

 

[Doc Samson]

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH go west young shrink.

But I don't wanna leave the mid-Atlantic! And I want to break 200k! AND do psychosomatic or emergency shrinkage. Should I keep dreaming?

You could do private consultation to a group of community hospitals and over time build up a good referral base. But for a salaried position, dreams are probably the closest you'll get to 200k.

 

[Dramkinola]

or you could go to a place of need and with a little hustle, approach (maybe pass?) 300K, in addition to having a lower cost of living...

 

[Doc Samson]

or you could go to a place of need and with a little hustle, approach (maybe pass?) 300K, in addition to having a lower cost of living...

For emergency or consultation psychiatry? Based on the typical reimbursement for a level 5 consult, I'd say 300k is impossible - unless there's some place out there so desperate for coverage that they'd salary that amount.

 

[jjmack]

I know I am a pessimist, but does anyone else see salaries in psychiatry not keeping up with cost of med school? I worry that people may not want to go into the field due to all of their debt.

 

[Doc Samson]

I know I am a pessimist, but does anyone else see salaries in psychiatry not keeping up with cost of med school? I worry that people may not want to go into the field due to all of their debt.

We're still better of than the pediatricians and FPs of the world... Psychiatry outside of academics is quite lucrative. Nothing pays well (comparatively) for those of us cursed with a desire to teach in major medical centers.

 

[Dramkinola]

For emergency or consultation psychiatry? Based on the typical reimbursement for a level 5 consult, I'd say 300k is impossible - unless there's some place out there so desperate for coverage that they'd salary that amount.

no, musta missed that part...
i meant between inpatient and private practice...

 

[fiatslug]

Just heard that CA correctional psych salaries are in the starting range of $230-$270K. Egad! And these jobs are going begging at those salaries... according to someone who used to work there. I don't think they have the luxury of recruiting board-cert forensic psychiatrists either.

 

[mgdsh]

Just heard that CA correctional psych salaries are in the starting range of $230-$270K. Egad! And these jobs are going begging at those salaries... according to someone who used to work there. I don't think they have the luxury of recruiting board-cert forensic psychiatrists either.

The cost of living in CA balances all that out though.

 

[fiatslug]

The cost of living in CA balances all that out though.

True dat--but most community psych positions in CA run $160-$180 to start. And once you start paying back loans... a lot of CA residents have told me the loan payments eat up any salary increase post residency! 🙁

 

[outofhere]

Comparing starting salaries is a useless exercise.

Now that I have your attention, hear me out.

When you compare numbers like this, you're not comparing a lot of other issues. For instance, retirement, sick days, educational days, vacation, commute...etc.

CA correctional health pays a lot of $, but do you want to live close to work? Most of these facilities are in the middle of no where. Therefore, if you commute there, spend the night in the hotel (costing you $ and gas, and time), and you would be giving up time with family...etc, which is very diff to put into dollar amounts.

Also, community mental health pays you sick days, private practice won't. Also, community mental health offers you colleagues, private practice can be very lonely.

I know of someone who was working part-time (25-30 hours each week) with call 1:5, at a private hospital as his own private practice, and he hired a billing service to get money from insurance companies. Anyway, he made $70,000 in four months. Multiply that by 3, an annual 'salary' of $210,000, working part-time. But, this guy doesn't get sick day, vacation day...etc. And also, he has to pay his billing service 7%. You see how it gets complicated to do an accurate comparison.

All in all, don't worry, psychiatrists can make money, lots of it.

 

[TheWowEffect]

Comparing starting salaries is a useless exercise.

Now that I have your attention, hear me out.

When you compare numbers like this, you're not comparing a lot of other issues. For instance, retirement, sick days, educational days, vacation, commute...etc.

CA correctional health pays a lot of $, but do you want to live close to work? Most of these facilities are in the middle of no where. Therefore, if you commute there, spend the night in the hotel (costing you $ and gas, and time), and you would be giving up time with family...etc, which is very diff to put into dollar amounts.

Also, community mental health pays you sick days, private practice won't. Also, community mental health offers you colleagues, private practice can be very lonely.

I know of someone who was working part-time (25-30 hours each week) with call 1:5, at a private hospital as his own private practice, and he hired a billing service to get money from insurance companies. Anyway, he made $70,000 in four months. Multiply that by 3, an annual 'salary' of $210,000, working part-time. But, this guy doesn't get sick day, vacation day...etc. And also, he has to pay his billing service 7%. You see how it gets complicated to do an accurate comparison.

All in all, don't worry, psychiatrists can make money, lots of it.

End of Story

 

[MBK2003]

True dat--but most community psych positions in CA run $160-$180 to start. And once you start paying back loans... a lot of CA residents have told me the loan payments eat up any salary increase post residency! 🙁

Yes, but many community psych programs have a HPSA designation, so you can get loan repayment subsidies.

MBK2003

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

Also, community mental health offers you colleagues, private practice can be very lonely.

I've heard this a few times (once from a former-psychiatrist-turned-cardiologist) -- anyone care to speak to this....for some reason it doesn't set off any alarms, should this concern me?

Just wondering.

 

[Chianti]

Psychiatry is a very flexible field.

You can work 40-hours a week at a community hospital and make $180,000 working 9-5 with weekends off and no call. Or you can do that and cover weekends once a month and one weeknight a week at another hospital and make an additional $40,000- $60,000 per year.

The options are many in psychiatry.

 

[cleareyedguy]

Solo outpatient psychiatry is often seen as lonely by people who need a certain amount of elbow rubbing and banter and socialization without acting like a psychiatrist.

The best academic medical school jobs do pay less than community jobs, but you do get to hang out with smart people. Further, if you play your cards right, you can both teach and make use of the hard work of your smart residents in seeing patients, which can prevent burnout.

The in-the-trenches psychiatrists who I know (and are based at Cornell and Columbia) make relatively modest salaries but then see several high-fee patients per day and probably do rather well overall. They'd probably make more in the rural south, but most of these particular psychiatrists don't want to live in rural areas performing med med management and love doing academic psych.

If you get into the compare-the-salaries game, you are likely to develop envy, and envy is bad. Top-flight lawyers and businessmen in NY make 7 figure salaries, and the starting salary for 25 year old lawyers in NY is 170ish. At the same time, top-flight lawyers who work in public interest make less than psychiatrists. We make less than a busy orthopedist, but would you want to do orthopedics? I'd be more likely to be an English prof than an orthopedist, and then I'd definitely make less, if I could get a job. Income and justice have minimal relation to each other.

 

[ronaldo23]

my dads in psychiatry. from his 9-5 state job, he makes around 150K, but is very financially saavy, and on the side started a private practice, works one weekend morning, and goes on call as often as possible (he doesnt even have to be in the hospital, and they pay 1K for a night of call) and so his total comes to around 250-300K

 

[psychfriend]

Remember that starting salaries mean absolutely nothing in regards to private practice groups because their salaries are low. The money comes when you become partner which can range from 250-500K depending on the success and reputation of the group.