U-Mich Students - thoughts, comments, rants?

[swf]

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So this thread goes out to any U-Mich students finding themselves with a little time on their hands (and/or those who just want to procrastinate and help a confused pre-med out in the process ... 😉 )

I've been accepted to U-Mich (yay 🙂 ) and am trying to make my decision btw. there and a couple other schools. So basically just trying to gather as much info./feedback as I can (and I'll be at second look to gather more too). I've searched the forums for U-Mich stuff from the past, but I was just wondering if anyone has anything new to add?
Specifically, I'm wondering about:

1) The standard daily schedule for M1 and 2 years - ie. is it 8-5 every day 🙂eek🙂, or do you have a least a couple afternoons "off" per week?
(Also, any chance 2nd year will be p/f any time soon?)

2) Extracurriculars. Do people do them? Is there time? And I don't just mean being part of "X" (medical specialty) interest group. (Not that I'm saying that isn't a good/ valid thing at all; it's just that I'm really into dance and am wondering if there will be time for me to take a couple classes, maybe even join an on-campus performing group, whatever)?

3) Competitiveness. (Yes, I know all/ most med. schools are somewhat competitive yadda yadda, but you know there are always some more so than others, so...)

4) The thesis requirement - ??? I hadn't heard about this formally at all, but then it all of a sudden popped up on a thread I was searching. So what's the deal with that?

5) How necessary is a car (I don't even know how to drive, literally - so this one's stressing me out a bit)?

6) Any opportunities to take cool classes on the u'grad campus? (I read this in one of the school's leaflets, but haven't heard much else about it). Does anyone actually have time to do it anyway?

Wow, that got really long - sorry 🙄 Any input greatly appreciated! 😀

 

[Surgeonizer]

1) schedule--the schedule here is variable, but generally we don't have lectures past 1 PM. The lectures are not mandatory and are all online; approximately 40% of the class opts to watch the videos with enounce (a program that speeds the lectures up) and just come to the anatomy lab sessions.

IT'S OFFICIAL--2nd year will P/F, effective for the class of 2008. We got the news a week ago and we're all elated over the news.

2) extracurriculars--there is no shortage of extracurricular activities, clubs, societies, etc. at Michigan. In fact, one could argue that there are too many opportunities to do things outside of class. The number of choices can be a bit overwhelming at times. Most of my classmates are quite involved in extracurricular stuff. There will be plenty of time your first year to take dance classes or do whatever you really enjoy.

3) competition--the competition at Michigan is virtually nonexistent. I can't think of a single gunner in my class, although the vast majority of students work hard (the average on our last neuroscience quiz was 94%). The cooperative and collegial atmosphere at Michigan is awesome. It's great to be surrounded by truly brilliant students who aren't cutthroat.

4) thesis--the thesis requirement is nothing to worry about. You can knock it out over the summer between 1st and 2nd year by participating in the summer biomedical research program (which pays really well by the way). The thesis should be easy. No one in my class is concerned about it.

5) transportation--the public transportation system in Ann Arbor is excellent and free for all students at Michigan, so a car isn't necessary. Plus you can always live with a classmate who has a car.

6) Med students can take any classes they want (it's free, too). One of my classmates is taking a literature course right now.

Overall, Michigan is a great place to study medicine. I really like it here.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hi swf,

I just finished up my MD/PhD training here and since my M1 and M2 years were part of the "old curriculum" (gawd I feel like an old fart now), I can't really comment on the new curriculum. What I can talk about are general environment issues here at UMich.

Competitiveness? Well during the first two years of med school, competition is low or not existent. There are no bell curves. The performance of your classmate will not affect the grade YOU get. During the 3rd year of med school where grades are subjective, there can be a bit of competition. However, it is mainly a product of people working hard. Some folks during the clinical phase will read a lot more and will speak up more during rounds. I don't think there is malicious intent behind these kind of actions but doing so will make that student stand out more. Think about it, you're in a team with 3-4 other med students. To the attendings and the residents, med students are all the same and virtually indistinguishable...UNLESS, someone does something to stand out. However, this is an issue that comes up at ANY medical school during the clinical phase of training...it's just the nature of the beast. Is the competitiveness at Michigan more rampant during the clinical years? My answer is no. All the folks that I have worked with (well except one person) were cool and we worked well together.

Camaraderie? Since I talked about competition, I feel that I must also discuss camaraderie. Michigan attracts some of the smartest students in the country. The majority of them are really cool and people help each other while learning things here. Med school is grueling. It is nice to have support of others whether it be moral or whether it be that someone helps you understand a difficult concept without even thinking twice. The level of camaraderie here at Michigan is very good.

Transportation? If you live at the med ghetto (Island Drive and Med Center Court), you can get away with not having a car. Personally, I have had a car here since matriculating in 1998. I can't live without one. But I know plenty of folks who got by during M1 and M2 year without a car. I will warn you that you WILL need to get a car by M3 year. Some rotations can occur offsite and the administration will not go out of its way to ensure that a car-less med student gets all rotations setup at the main U of M hospital. Public transportation is efficient and reliable here. And it's free. But again, it won't substitute for a lack of a car during the clinical years when you are, for example, assigned to do your family practice rotation 30 minutes out of town in Chelsea, MI.

Free time? Hell yeah. Especially during M1 and M2 year. Well, it depends on how anal you are about grades. My M1 year was Pass/Fail. My M2 year was Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail (which is basically an A/B/C/F system). I heard that there was a possible vote to try to change M2 year to pass/fail. I have no idea how that went. In any case, if you don't go to class and just cram the night before weekly quizzes (like me), then you have an insane amount of free time. I used that time during M1 year to learn how to play electric guitar. During M2 year, I just cared about getting High Passes in all my classes so cramming the night before finals was sufficient. So even in M2 year, I had loads of free time. I ended up just working in the lab full time during that year while skipping class. What I'm trying to say is that the amount of free time will depend on how much time YOU want to put in (which is based on how much time you feel you NEED to put in), what you want to get out of M1 and M2 year, and whether you decide to go to class or not. Some people live in the library. Some people have lives. At Michigan, you DO have a choice so it really is up to you.

Extracurriculars? Again, this depends on how much free time you have. But there are many opportunities to get involved here. The AMSA club here have many subdivisions with many different activities one could get involved in. Then there's Galen's Medical Society which does community service and lots of it. There are a variety of other clubs and hence plenty of opportunities to do other things besides burying one's nose in a book or a stack of Phi Chi notes. 🙂

Best of luck in your decision. Feel free to PM me if I can be of further assistance.

Cheers.

 

[swf]

Hi Surgeonizer and Andy -
Thanks so much for two really helpful, insightful replies. Great news about P/F definitely going through for 2nd year, eh Surgeonizer? 😀 It was good to hear that both of you have mostly found Mich to be uncompetitive; seems like you guys have really enjoyed/ are enjoying your time there. I'm excited to come and check it out at 2nd look 🙂 (maybe I'll meet one or other of you there...).
Oh, one last question to throw out there: what are the gym facilities like? (cardio machines, pool etc.) Thanks!
Comments from anyone else definitely welcome too 🙂
swf

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hi Surgeonizer and Andy -
Thanks so much for two really helpful, insightful replies. Great news about P/F definitely going through for 2nd year, eh Surgeonizer? 😀 It was good to hear that both of you have mostly found Mich to be uncompetitive; seems like you guys have really enjoyed/ are enjoying your time there. I'm excited to come and check it out at 2nd look 🙂 (maybe I'll meet one or other of you there...).
Oh, one last question to throw out there: what are the gym facilities like? (cardio machines, pool etc.) Thanks!
Comments from anyone else definitely welcome too 🙂
swf

I've been done with med school since October and so I'm not really connected to the med school activities anymore (including recruiting)...since these forums are anonymous, it is unfortunately unlikely that you and I will meet.

Gym facilities are rather limited. As a student you have two main options: CCRB (close to the med school) and NCRB (on North Campus). The CCRB is pretty dirty but the NCRB is nice. Both have cardio machines and pools. If you're willing to branch out from the University based facilities, you can always get a Bally's membership.

 

[LauraMac]

I've been done with med school since October and so I'm not really connected to the med school activities anymore (including recruiting)...since these forums are anonymous, it is unfortunately unlikely that you and I will meet.

Gym facilities are rather limited. As a student you have two main options: CCRB (close to the med school) and NCRB (on North Campus). The CCRB is pretty dirty but the NCRB is nice. Both have cardio machines and pools. If you're willing to branch out from the University based facilities, you can always get a Bally's membership.

there is also the IMSB, which just got remodeled and is very nice inside. i've been more than happy with the workout facilities here, and i'm a workoutaholic, so you should be okay.

i'm only an undergrad here, but all of my friends in med school here love it. they seem to have enough free time for a huge variety of extracurriculars, too.

as for the car, you don't have to have one. most people do, but you definitely don't have to.

hope to meet you on 2nd look weekend. i'll be there. 🙂

 

[swf]

Hey Andy -
Thanks for the info., not to mention the speedy reply 🙂
Sorry I won't get to meet you but congrats on being done with the whole med. school thing - and, on that note, good luck with the "real world" 😉

I've been done with med school since October and so I'm not really connected to the med school activities anymore (including recruiting)...since these forums are anonymous, it is unfortunately unlikely that you and I will meet.

Gym facilities are rather limited. As a student you have two main options: CCRB (close to the med school) and NCRB (on North Campus). The CCRB is pretty dirty but the NCRB is nice. Both have cardio machines and pools. If you're willing to branch out from the University based facilities, you can always get a Bally's membership.

 

[swf]

Hey Laura -
Ooh, a fellow workoutaholic - yay! 👍 Glad to hear that you like the facilities as I anticipate spending a rather significant amount of my time in them 😉 I've been so spoiled this year as I'm taking a year "off" after undergrad. and so am basically working a 9-5 job which means I get to spend about 3hrs. in the gym every day. Doubt I'll be able to pull that off while at med. school though... 🙄
I'm definitely heading out to 2nd look (though I'm getting in lateish on Fri.) so I look forward to meeting you then!
Sarah

there is also the IMSB, which just got remodeled and is very nice inside. i've been more than happy with the workout facilities here, and i'm a workoutaholic, so you should be okay.

i'm only an undergrad here, but all of my friends in med school here love it. they seem to have enough free time for a huge variety of extracurriculars, too.

as for the car, you don't have to have one. most people do, but you definitely don't have to.

hope to meet you on 2nd look weekend. i'll be there. 🙂

 

[CreativeWriter]

1) schedule--the schedule here is variable, but generally we don't have lectures past 1 PM. The lectures are not mandatory and are all online; approximately 40% of the class opts to watch the videos with enounce (a program that speeds the lectures up) and just come to the anatomy lab sessions.

IT'S OFFICIAL--2nd year will P/F, effective for the class of 2008. We got the news a week ago and we're all elated over the news.

2) extracurriculars--there is no shortage of extracurricular activities, clubs, societies, etc. at Michigan. In fact, one could argue that there are too many opportunities to do things outside of class. The number of choices can be a bit overwhelming at times. Most of my classmates are quite involved in extracurricular stuff. There will be plenty of time your first year to take dance classes or do whatever you really enjoy.

3) competition--the competition at Michigan is virtually nonexistent. I can't think of a single gunner in my class, although the vast majority of students work hard (the average on our last neuroscience quiz was 94%). The cooperative and collegial atmosphere at Michigan is awesome. It's great to be surrounded by truly brilliant students who aren't cutthroat.

4) thesis--the thesis requirement is nothing to worry about. You can knock it out over the summer between 1st and 2nd year by participating in the summer biomedical research program (which pays really well by the way). The thesis should be easy. No one in my class is concerned about it.

5) transportation--the public transportation system in Ann Arbor is excellent and free for all students at Michigan, so a car isn't necessary. Plus you can always live with a classmate who has a car.

6) Med students can take any classes they want (it's free, too). One of my classmates is taking a literature course right now.

Overall, Michigan is a great place to study medicine. I really like it here.

Hello....

I was wondering if you could post your weekly schedule, as an attachment. I just want to see what my weekly schedule is going to look like....for some reason, I was told that on ave, you are going to spend 30 hrs inside of a lecture hall...that's a LOT! whether you do it on your own apt or in a lecture, just passively listening to a prof. talk or looking through the microscope

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hello....

I was wondering if you could post your weekly schedule, as an attachment. I just want to see what my weekly schedule is going to look like....for some reason, I was told that on ave, you are going to spend 30 hrs inside of a lecture hall...that's a LOT! whether you do it on your own apt or in a lecture, just passively listening to a prof. talk or looking through the microscope

Well you don't HAVE to go to lecture or watch lecture either. We have scribe notes here and they are sufficient for doing well on quizzes/exams. I was usually able to bust through notes from a 1 hour lecture in 20-30 minutes so for me that was a more efficient way to study rather than sitting in on a 1 hour lecture and risking missing something because I fell asleep or did crossword puzzles.

 

[MadameLULU]

In one of the booklets they sent us I read that we are in class no more than 20 hours per week, but I'd also like to see what the current M1 schedule is like.

 

[automaton]

i don't have a schedule to dig up but as m1 i had lectures from 9-12 then 1-2 plus three labs a week (usually a combination of 2 gross anatomy plus 1 histo or 1 gross 2 histo). so that's about 20 hours of lecture. i guess the people at michigan don't count gross anatomy as class time even though you're supposed to be there. histology you can totally blow off and study on your own though, so i wouldn't really count that as class time.

as m2 we have lecture again from 9-12, but on some organ systems it's 8-12 for a while. sometimes there are afternoon lectures, mostly not though. then we have path labs that are not really required... those take up about 2 hrs per session, with anywhere from 1-2 sessions per week. not a big deal at all.

if you want to see how many lectures we have, take a look at this...

http://www.med.umich.edu/lrc/streamingvideo/m1/index.html
http://www.med.umich.edu/lrc/streamingvideo/m2/index.html

ask you can see we don't have very many lectures per week. still a lot of work though.

 

[SailCrazy]

I just received my acceptance! 😀 I can't describe how excited I am.

I'd also love to hear some UofM feedback so I thought I'd bring this old thread back around...

What do you like? What would you improve? Thoughts/advice for an incoming M1?

Thanks. Go Blue!

 

[YoungFaithful]

It's amazing to hear UM students say their school isn't competitive...is it really true? The word around the state (and at other in-state medical schools) is that people rip pages out of books and what not. Everyone at my med school says it's cut-throat at UM...I guess they are mistaken. You know how rumors get started. Let that be a lesson to only listen to words from the horses mouth.

 

[funshine]

It's amazing to hear UM students say their school isn't competitive...is it really true? The word around the state (and at other in-state medical schools) is that people rip pages out of books and what not. Everyone at my med school says it's cut-throat at UM...I guess they are mistaken. You know how rumors get started. Let that be a lesson to only listen to words from the horses mouth.

Yeah, that's exactly what I heard too! And why I didn't apply to UMich. I know its a wonderful school though...I'm guessing most people who have positive experiences in med school are really smart and don't have the need to become cutthroat/gunnerish. I could see someone really struggling at UMich too. Not all med schools are equal. I have friends who went to the same undergrad as me, and some are having a blast in med school (they say its way easier) and some are on the verge of breakdowns.

 

[Nittany Lion]

You want input on University of Michigan? You don't even want to HEAR the vile things that this Nittany Lion would have to say about Michigan right now... 👎

one lousy second... 😡

 

[automaton]

most of the people who talk about competition or "cutthroat" are first or second year students who are in no position whatsoever to judge. they get along happily in their pass/fail fantasy world during the basic science years. don't believe a word they say; they have no clue what they're talking about.

i am halfway through 3rd year (where we are graded on a curve) so i'm in a slightly better position to talk about competitiveness. the fact is that michigan students are for the most part both intelligent and hard working - a lot is demanded and you often work your ass off just to be average. almost no one here is happy to settle for a "pass" so they work hard, which raises the bar quite a bit. that's just how it goes. if that's your definition of cutthroat or competitive, then well, i guess it is. if you can't handle that, then i don't know what to tell you.

but as far as being malignant, like stealing notes or books, i personally have never seen or heard about it. ripping pages off books? that's ridiculous. sure there are some tools here and there who are infamous for their antics, but never to the point of stealing or anything. just for being obnoxious ass kissers. there is no shortage of those at ANY medical school, i can guarantee you that, no matter what kind of kum-ba-ya bs you've been fed.

bottom line: michigan is a tough place to excel at, but not because other people are trying to put you down, only because others around you are performing at a high level. they do their own thing and let you do yours.

 

[SailCrazy]

When I was there for my interview day I heard no complaints of competition and have heard no such stories.

Maybe now that both 1st and 2nd year are pass/fail things are more friendly. In fact, everyone seemed very nice and helpful to me.

 

[DriNDT]

I agree with automaton. I am a 2nd year at UMich, so I can't speak to the competitiveness on the wards. Having P/F is great, but as automaton pointed out, the students at UMich are used to achieving, and P/F hasn't really diminished everyone's intrinsic motivation (contrary to what they will have you believe). The class averages are still high, and people are still working hard. I think it's true that everyone is trying to excel, not to make others look bad, but simply b/c that's what they are used to. It is hard to distinguish yourself in an environment like UMich, but as long as you maintain the perspective that you are learning for learning's sake (and the benefit of your future patients), competition doesn't really rear its ugly head. That's my 2 cents anyway🙂