UC Davis vs U of Rochester!

[Zoroaster]

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Ok so I'm in kind of an interesting situation here and I want to get some opinions. So I'm looking at either UC Davis or University of Rochester. I'm planning on doing an MD/MBA so that's a factor here. Here's the pros and cons:

Davis Pros:
about 10,000 cheaper per year
close to family (they live an hour and a half away)
chill atmosphere
sweet facilities
location (Sacramento isn't amazing but it was better than I expected)
My wife is a fine artist and there's a way better art community around Sac than around Rochester.
Student run clinics
They have a Center for Research in Health Disparities which is something I'm really interested in.

Davis Cons:
lower ranked
business school is pretty crappy
curriculum seems just okay (4 hours of lecture per day vs two, topic based rather than systems based, less PBL, more tests)

Rochester Pros:
better match list
little bit more prestigious
way better business school (like 25th compared to 45th)
really great curriculum
more research opportunities (esp international research)

Rochester Cons:
The city is a hellhole
I hate snow
The atmosphere is dreary and the city feels like its dying
Its really far away from my beloved CA and my family
More expensive
Didn't like the students quite as much (though they were still nice)
They play squash there rather than racquetball. I don't like squash.


And then the whole match issue is complex. I'd like to match at one of the good Bay Area residencies (Stanford or UCSF). Not that many Rochester students match in those places but maybe that's because most of them are East coasters and don't even apply. The best Davis students seem to match at those places but I'm sure there's a lot more competition for those spots. Plus pretty much every single davis student matches for primary care, psychiatry, EM, or General surgery and I'm thinking I might want to do Radiology or something a little more competitive. But then again I might change my mind in med school.

Anyway, any thoughts or advice?

 

[taponthecloud]

Ok so I'm in kind of an interesting situation here and I want to get some opinions. So I'm looking at either UC Davis or University of Rochester. I'm planning on doing an MD/MBA so that's a factor here. Here's the pros and cons:

Davis Pros:
about 10,000 cheaper per year
close to family (they live an hour and a half away)
chill atmosphere
sweet facilities
location (Sacramento isn't amazing but it was better than I expected)
My wife is a fine artist and there's a way better art community around Sac than around Rochester.
Student run clinics
They have a Center for Research in Health Disparities which is something I'm really interested in.

Davis Cons:
lower ranked
business school is pretty crappy
curriculum seems just okay (4 hours of lecture per day vs two, topic based rather than systems based, less PBL, more tests)

Rochester Pros:
better match list
little bit more prestigious
way better business school (like 25th compared to 45th)
really great curriculum
more research opportunities (esp international research)

Rochester Cons:
The city is a hellhole
I hate snow
The atmosphere is dreary and the city feels like its dying
Its really far away from my beloved CA and my family
More expensive
Didn't like the students quite as much (though they were still nice)
They play squash there rather than racquetball. I don't like squash.

therein lies your answer

 

[Dawktah Rawkah]

First off, Congrats on getting into two great schools!

My computer-chair psycho-analysis is the following: sounds like Davis has most of what you want, minus the bigger name and prestige. that's a tough issue for you b/c you're rocking the MD/MBA ... importance of rankings for med schools is smaller than for business schools ... but when you're talking MD/MBA, seems like the MD trumps the MBA, prestige-wise. even so, Davis is well known and respected state-wide for both med and biz ... it's just not well known if you decide to go to another state (which would just be silly ... why would anyone do such a thing?) If you go to UCD for med school, you have a great shot at staying there for residency, too. this means less uprooting for you and the mrs. however, if you want to do this and be happy, you're going to have to soak that big-name sweet tooth of yours in some rankings-don't-matter kool-aid.

You're right, comparing match lists can be tricky - especially when comparing location and specialty. If you're looking to stay in Cali for the long term (aren't we all), UCD would give you the best odds of that happening. Most UC med students manage to stay in Cali and honestly, there aren't any "bad" programs if you end up here for residency ... sure, UCD for med school might mean a residency at UCD, CPMC, Kaiser or St. Mary's ... not as "hot" as Stanford or UCSF, but they're great programs ... and more importantly, they're well-known and respected in the area, where, presumably, you'd be staying after to work. my point being, going to Rochester to increase your chances of landing a Rads residency at Stanford or UCSF seems like a long-shot ... you'll be up against the folks from all of the top twenty schools across the country ... if you go to UCD for med school, at least you will be able to make connections in the area which will help you line up a Rads residency in northern california. either school you choose, your boards will be the biggest factor. talking to most folks in med school, matching into their specialty is the big thing ... general location next biggest thing and matching their #1 choice program is the icing on the cake. even med students at UCSF aren't sure they'll be able to get a rads residency there. it's a noble and lofty goal, but fyi, there's 65 applicants per spot.

anyway, hope this helps ... Good luck!

 

[Zoroaster]

Thanks so much for the advice guys!

Yeah I'm probably worrying too much about rankings. I'm trying to beat that tendency out.

I guess I'm just a little worried that coming from Davis which is such a primary care kind of school, that my options would be limited. I mean Davis seems like a really great fit for me in a lot of ways except that I'm really not interested in primary care. Like, I'd rather be a garbageman than a pediatrician. No offense to any peds guys out there of course, FP and Pediatrics are just not my cup of tea.

So what if I found out I really wanted to do Anesthesiology or something? Would I have a problem doing that from Davis? In the last three years they've had like one person go into anesthesiology. Is that just because of the interests of the students there? Or is the school's reputation for primary care a hindrance when trying for other things?

If anyone could help me on this that would be great because if I could be reassured about this one issue then I'd be psyched about Davis.

 

[notdeadyet]

Yeah I'm probably worrying too much about rankings. I'm trying to beat that tendency out.

I personally don't care for rankings. I don't think they indicate a whole lot. And their biggest criteria is NIH funding, which you haven't expressed any interest in.

Most importantly, even the folks that are really into rankings will tell you it isn't a very precise science. Though I disagree with the ratings thing, I'd have a little more sympathy if you were talking about two radically different ranked schools.

You're talking Rochester and Davis. Ranked 36th and 48th, respectively. Even ratings geeks will tell you that 12 spots at this point in the scale mean next to nothing.

(Discloure: I attend UCD but have a lot of time for Rochester. I like most about the school, aside from the location).

 

[notdeadyet]

And then the whole match issue is complex. I'd like to match at one of the good Bay Area residencies (Stanford or UCSF).

Davis students will have a much easier time matching into west coast residencies. That advantage would go down if the other applicant was coming from Harvard or JHU, but not a similarly ranked shcool.

Proximity can be a big advantage. It's easier for us to do rotations there. We have a constant stream of grad getting these residencies so we're a known entity. By the same token, I'm sure Rochester has a big leg up on us in getting NYC residencies.

The best Davis students seem to match at those places but I'm sure there's a lot more competition for those spots. Plus pretty much every single davis student matches for primary care, psychiatry, EM, or General surgery and I'm thinking I might want to do Radiology or something a little more competitive.

Oh man, where did you do your research? Did you ask any of this at the inteview at either school? Have you looked at the match lists from each school?

Davis gets the reputation for being a "primary care school", but I don't think that such a thing really exists. We have a lot of folks go that route, because Davis very much has a commitment to providing healthcare to the underserved (hence our great student-run clinics); folks intersted in providing healthcare to the underserved tend to go into primary care.

That said, the Primary Care rankings, which are largely determined by what percentage of grads end up going into primary care have Rochester ranked slightly higher than Davis, so there you go.

A match list can be a dangerous thing to look at, because unless you're real familiar with them, you don't know what you're looking for.

Don't look at what specialty folks match in. This tells you what their field of interest is, which has little to do with the medical school. Look at where they matched. You probably don't know what good programs are in different specialties, but this is what speaks volumes. If you have a large percentage of grads doing ho-hum community programs in FP in the middle of nowhere, theses could be folks lacking options. But if you have folks doing FP in big academic university centers, they're probably $hit hot.

Also, don't lump Internal Medicine in with Primary Care. Some folks go into it for primary care oppotunities but other are going in to gun for fellowships in things like cardiology, etc.

 

[notdeadyet]

So what if I found out I really wanted to do Anesthesiology or something? Would I have a problem doing that from Davis? In the last three years they've had like one person go into anesthesiology.

I'd do a lot more research on each school before making a choice. Where are you getting your information from? Not being critical, but some of it is pretty off.

We had an anesthesiology match last year and two the year before that and two the year before that. 2008 had two rads, three optho and a rad-onc. 2007 had four rads, three optho and a derm. More importantly, look at where the matches are. Davis grads tend to nail very good placements in all specialties.

Is that just because of the interests of the students there?

Our number of folks going into FP is higher than most, because of the student body we attract.

Or is the school's reputation for primary care a hindrance when trying for other things?

The primary care school thing is only in the mind of premeds. Not residency directors. Check out the match list and you can see by where students are headed.

Best of luck with your decision.

 

[notdeadyet]

So I'm looking at either UC Davis or University of Rochester. I'm planning on doing an MD/MBA so that's a factor here.

Feel free to totally disregard this piece of advice, but I was in business for a while so I always feel like chiming in on this one.

I'm not a proponent of the MD/MBA. I feel it's largely med schools taking advantage of the fact that most students are pretty green with business.

An MBA is functionally useless without an extensive and broad business background behind it. This is why the better programs don't take anyone without a good pedigree.

An MBA is only really useful for a doctor after he has a lot of experience under his belt as well. Folks who aren't familiar with b-school will say that it's handy for running your own practice, but that's just not the case. An MBA is both overkill for this and not focused on running a small practice.

An MBA for a physician is useful for running a large department or an entire hospital. This comes after 10 years or so of experience as a physician. An MBA has a shelf life. An MBA now for skills you won't use for 10 years is about as effective as doing a surgical residency and then not touching a scalpel for a decade. You can still cut, but I'd opt for the young gun with recent training.

If you're looking for the letters, go the MD/MBA route. But every study I've read shows that only the top ranked business schools have MBAs that pay for themselves. Rochester is pretty good, but it's not one of the greats. Davis isn't in that ballpark either. If you hold off and get some experience as a physician under your belt, you'll be a shoo-in for an executive MBA program and you have options at the top schools of the country.

Just my $0.02. I was a consultant for a while and a company was trying to get me to go the MBA route so I looked into this pretty deeply.

Good luck with your decision. You have some exciting options ahead.

 

[Zoroaster]

Thanks for your input notdeadyet!

Yeah I've looked at the match lists for both schools for several years going back. I must have missed some of those anesthesiology matches but I didn't have the lists in front of me while I was writing. Either way, when comparing the two match lists Rochester definitely has more people doing rads, anesthesiology, derm, orthopedic surgery, and things like that. If you're a Davis student maybe you can tell me whether that is the case simply because the students at Davis aren't interested in those things, or do you know a few students who were gunning for derm or ortho but were disappointed on match day?

And I know that the rankings difference isn't significant but everyone always tells me how underrated Rochester is and how they match better than their rank. Plus, the ranking difference for B-school is larger and it makes a bigger difference. But ranking isn't the only reason I'd consider Rochester. I liked their curriculum a lot as well, and 40% of their students do international research, which interests me.

As far as the MD/MBA issue, I actually do have somewhat of a business background. I did my undergraduate in Bus Management plus I've been running my own company for a couple years now. But I'm actually interested in using an MBA for research in healthcare delivery and healthcare policy. I've talked to a few people at both Davis and Rochester about it and I've spoken with a bunch of MD/MBA's, and they've all told me an MD/MBA would be better for that then an MD/MPH. If you have information to the contrary I'd be interested to hear it.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Rochester more prestigious? I think not.

 

[ihatescience]

Zoro, what notdeadyet explained was that the match list is more reflective of the student's interests and where those fall.

I do not doubt for one second that UCD students have difficulty matching into "hard to get into" residencies if they so desire. In fact, I spoke with an associate dean of Stanford the other day who told me that a UCD student gained an opthal. residency at Stanford despite many other qualified students applying for that same spot. This attests to the ability for UCD students to match into particular programs.

As I see it, Rochester has more people matching into those specialties simply because more students in the graduating class are interested in those fields.

Notdeadyet, feel free to correct anything I have said 🙂.

Thanks for your input notdeadyet!

Yeah I've looked at the match lists for both schools for several years going back. I must have missed some of those anesthesiology matches but I didn't have the lists in front of me while I was writing. Either way, when comparing the two match lists Rochester definitely has more people doing rads, anesthesiology, derm, orthopedic surgery, and things like that. If you're a Davis student maybe you can tell me whether that is the case simply because the students at Davis aren't interested in those things, or do you know a few students who were gunning for derm or ortho but were disappointed on match day?

And I know that the rankings difference isn't significant but everyone always tells me how underrated Rochester is and how they match better than their rank. Plus, the ranking difference for B-school is larger and it makes a bigger difference. But ranking isn't the only reason I'd consider Rochester. I liked their curriculum a lot as well, and 40% of their students do international research, which interests me.

As far as the MD/MBA issue, I actually do have somewhat of a business background. I did my undergraduate in Bus Management plus I've been running my own company for a couple years now. But I'm actually interested in using an MBA for research in healthcare delivery and healthcare policy. I've talked to a few people at both Davis and Rochester about it and I've spoken with a bunch of MD/MBA's, and they've all told me an MD/MBA would be better for that then an MD/MPH. If you have information to the contrary I'd be interested to hear it.

 

[notdeadyet]

Yeah I've looked at the match lists for both schools for several years going back. I must have missed some of those anesthesiology matches but I didn't have the lists in front of me while I was writing. Either way, when comparing the two match lists Rochester definitely has more people doing rads, anesthesiology, derm, orthopedic surgery, and things like that.

Again, I think you're probably not looking at match lists the way you should. I know that premeds tend to fixate on a specialty then look at a match list and judge how suitable a school is by how many match into that specialty.

Who goes into what fields is not representative of the school, it's representative of the students' interests. How many students matched into anesthesia doesn't mean much. If Rochester had more folks match into gas, it means more students were gunning for gas. No one at Davis tried for gas, didn't match, and settled for family practice. It's indicative of interest. Look at where they match, which is more telling. If you can't match into a great program in gas, you'll get in somewhere, but it may be a small community program no one's heard of in an undesirable location.

If you're a Davis student maybe you can tell me whether that is the case simply because the students at Davis aren't interested in those things, or do you know a few students who were gunning for derm or ortho but were disappointed on match day?

I think you're way overestimating the number of folks that have multiple specialties on their application. Most have one. If you don't match, you do scramble, do a year of research, or try to better your app some other way. I don't know anyone who put derm as a first choice and family practice as a second. There may be folks like that out there, but they're probably more rare than you think.

 

[notdeadyet]

And I know that the rankings difference isn't significant but everyone always tells me how underrated Rochester is and how they match better than their rank. Plus, the ranking difference for B-school is larger and it makes a bigger difference. But ranking isn't the only reason I'd consider Rochester. I liked their curriculum a lot as well, and 40% of their students do international research, which interests me.

Unless your name is Harvard, JHU, Penn, etc., your medical school is underrated.

Yeah, Rochester is a great school. I can see you're leaning that way, and you'll be making a fine choice. Definitely don't let me talk you out of it.

The schools are too close in rankings to have one considered better than the next (again, assuming you care about the rankings, which I personally don't).

It's going to come down to region. Rochester is going to be a better bet for you if you're going to go for east coast residencies. Davis will serve you better for west coast residencies. Can you get a clinically oriented, research supplemented, internationally focused, underserved aware medical education preparing you for a great match in either specialty? Absolutely.

You'll be fine with either school. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Tropicana100]

I interviewed at both schools and my vote goes to Rochester 😀 I would have trouble deciding Rochester vs. UCSD vs. Vanderbilt much less Davis.

 

[Zoroaster]

Notdeadyet,

I've always known that I didn't have a really strong grasp on how residency matches went down but I think you're helping me clear up some of my misunderstandings. I've just read a lot of match list threads and it seems like everyone is always raving about how many derm matches or ortho matches a school got, and the "best" schools (ei harvard, hopkins, etc) are always bragging about how few of their students go into primary care. So I've gotten the impression that there are students who have to do primary care, because they're not competitive for other specialties and that the number of highly competitive specialties on a school's match list is a decent measure of their matching prowess. There are probably a lot of other mixed-up premeds with similar misunderstandings.

Anyway, are there any rochester people out there who can tell me about how bad the weather and the city really are? I mean if both schools were in CA I'd probably choose Rochester based on my experience there, so if the weather isn't really that big a deal that might make a difference for me. Or I guess for Davis people, how much has the weather and the city impacted your experience? Has it added a lot?

 

[notdeadyet]

But I'm actually interested in using an MBA for research in healthcare delivery and healthcare policy. I've talked to a few people at both Davis and Rochester about it and I've spoken with a bunch of MD/MBA's, and they've all told me an MD/MBA would be better for that then an MD/MPH.

There's not a huge amount overlap between an MPH and an MBA, other than the economics that the two share. One is public health and one is business. You could do great things with either, but they'd come at the problems very differently.

My personal attitude is just that for an MBA, until you have a lot of experience in what you're going to focus on, an MBA just doesn't have much worth. A BA in bus is great and running your own business is admirable, but if you're going to be doing an MBA in respect to healthcare delivery and healthcare policy, having 5-10 years working in substantial positions in healthcare would be of big benefit. Otherwise it's just a few more letters to stitch on after the name.

There are a whole lot of articles in business magazines about this very subject. All the research has been pretty clear on two things: an MBA only pays for itself if it's from a top school and the effectiveness of an MBA is directly proportional to the amount of practical experience the matriculant has in the field they're studying.

But regardless, Rochester sounds like it might be more up your alley. Good luck making the decision. This is an exciting time and I wish you the best of luck.

 

[notdeadyet]

I interviewed at both schools and my vote goes to Rochester 😀 I would have trouble deciding Rochester vs. UCSD vs. Vanderbilt much less Davis.

Just out of curiosity, why does your mdapps say you were rejected from Davis pre-interview?

 

[Tropicana100]

Just out of curiosity, why does your mdapps say you were rejected from Davis pre-interview?

interviewed last year, one of the last interview dates, but didn't get in. my comment is not out of bitterness though. i really liked Davis. 🙂

 

[notdeadyet]

interviewed last year, one of the last interview dates, but didn't get in. my comment is not out of bitterness though. i really liked Davis. 🙂

No sweat, I was just confused. Congrats on the U of Wisconsin scholarship, by the way. Davis sure didn't toss me any money to attend. That's gotta be a nice feeling. And it's a great town as well. Just bring a good coat.

 

[Zoroaster]

But regardless, Rochester sounds like it might be more up your alley. Good luck making the decision. This is an exciting time and I wish you the best of luck.

Good thoughts on the MBA issue, I'll have to check that out more. If I gave the impression that I'm leaning towards Rochester then there must have been some misunderstanding because I'm def leaning towards Davis. The weather is a HUGE concern for me and the city of Rochester was really depressing. Plus I really want to do a residency in CA, so if its true that proximity is important in residency matches then Davis just bumped up a couple notches in my estimation.

And for Tropicana, what did you like so much about Rochester?

 

[notdeadyet]

So I've gotten the impression that there are students who have to do primary care, because they're not competitive for other specialties and that the number of highly competitive specialties on a school's match list is a decent measure of their matching prowess. There are probably a lot of other mixed-up premeds with similar misunderstandings.

I have no doubts. And that doesn't necessarily end once you hit med school either. Some medical students don't let go of that and obsess about match lists as well.

Competitive specialties are just that: competitive. You have to get great scores, SLORs, sometimes research, etc. You put a whole lot of work into getting it. If you don't get it, the odds that you tossed in a few family practice spots is pretty remote.

That's why I say to look at the where. If you see a whole bunch of very random, very unknown slots in very undesirable areas, it's probably a sign folks didn't get their first pick. I saw "a whole bunch" intentionally, because sometimes folks just want to get of the city, have family ties, or are trying to do a couples match (hats off to those folks).

 

[notdeadyet]

Or I guess for Davis people, how much has the weather and the city impacted your experience? Has it added a lot?

You may get some dumb stares from us on the weather question. Most folks at Davis are from California and we tend not to think much about the weather out here. Not sure what you're asking.

In Sacramento, it doesn't snow. It can get cold and rainy in the winter. There were about 6-8 weeks where I'd wear a raincoat or carry an umbrella. The summer was real hot. There's an actual fall and spring here, each distinct, which is nice, I guess (sorry, I'm a coastal guy, so those two seasons were kind of new to me). It's pleasant.

I've been to Rochester before as well. I found it to be... cold. But that's to be expected, being north-east of Buffalo (which many of us in California sort of use as the yardstick for a place that's cold). Californians can be real geo-snobs at times, and before anyone knocks Rochester, I want to go on record as saying that it was a nice enough place and everyone was very friendly.

How much you love Sacramento will largely depend on where in California you're from. If you're from LA or SF or SD, it will seem pretty small and hick. If you're from the country, I'm sure it seems very shiny (sorry, operating on little sleep) I've actually grown to like it as you get a good mix of people from all over and there's a lot of city types and a lot of country types. It's close to a lot of good stuff. It's cheap living and very nice. It's gotten a lot nicer than when I used to come up here a lot 10 years ago.

My attitude is that in med school you need to go somewhere that has at least one good bar, one good indie movie theatre, one good bookstore, one good thai place, and one good coffee house. I find I have a lot less time to explore town than I ever have anywhere else I've lived. that said, I'm not the brightest guy on the block, so I'm sure others have different experiences.

 

[notdeadyet]

The weather is a HUGE concern for me and the city of Rochester was really depressing.

Can I ask where you're from and why weather is a big issue? Just curious if you're a snow kid dying for sunshine or a sun kid scared of winter.

Plus I really want to do a residency in CA, so if its true that proximity is important in residency matches then Davis just bumped up a couple notches in my estimation.

Before I get slammed on what I said above, I want to reiterate that proximity gives you an advantage. A stronger applicant who is a better fit will win every time. But things being similar, the fact that a residency director works with lots of folks from your school and residents are vouching for you and recommending you to the director, it definitely helps. But regardless of what medical school you go to, you have a shot at a spot for a Californian residency. Just don't take mine, please.

 

[Tropicana100]

Good thoughts on the MBA issue, I'll have to check that out more. If I gave the impression that I'm leaning towards Rochester then there must have been some misunderstanding because I'm def leaning towards Davis. The weather is a HUGE concern for me and the city of Rochester was really depressing. Plus I really want to do a residency in CA, so if its true that proximity is important in residency matches then Davis just bumped up a couple notches in my estimation.

And for Tropicana, what did you like so much about Rochester?

Rochester was my very first interview this year and was the most memorable one. What stuck out the most is how friendly, enthusiastic, and happy the students were. Before my interviews, I attended a lecture on epidemiology given by an emeritus professor. As soon as I walked in to the lecture room, students flocked to me, introduced themselves and said, "You should choose Rochester. We love it here." When I sat down, the student next to me introduced herself and offered to share her notes with me during the lecture. The lecture itself was impressive. The students were actively participating and making jokes with the professor. It was very clear that the class had tremendous energy and unity in their learning experience. My faculty interviews also really impressed me. I interviewed with the chair emerita of peds. She was extremely friendly and showed that there was tremendous amount of attention and faculty support given to students. When the interview day was over, I was sitting alone in the waiting room and 3-4 first years came and sat with me and talked about what they like about the curriculum (biopsychosocial model and double helix), the environment, and student life. What's amazing about Rochester is that it excels in so many different elements: research, international health, primary care . At other schools, you don't often see this kind of balance. After I was accepted, I received personalized letters from my faculty interviewers. I felt like Rochester is a place where I would feel at home. The only downside I see is the weather. I've heard people complain about the city, but I personally will not have time to go out into the city every single weekend regardless of where I end up. OK that's enough of my blurb. Good luck deciding everyone!

 

[Zoroaster]

Can I ask where you're from and why weather is a big issue? Just curious if you're a snow kid dying for sunshine or a sun kid scared of winter.

I'm both. I grew up in the SF Bay Area. I didn't realize what I had until I went out to do my undergrad in a cold and snowy local. I'm pretty sick of it and another 5 years (with a combined program) of even colder and snowier weather is not appealing. But if I felt like the benefits still outweighted the costs then I'd be willing to endure five more years as long as I could be sure I could come back to CA for residency. But if Davis will let me match just as well in CA then why put myself through all that?

 

[nogolfinsnow]

Before I get slammed on what I said above, I want to reiterate that proximity gives you an advantage. A stronger applicant who is a better fit will win every time. But things being similar, the fact that a residency director works with lots of folks from your school and residents are vouching for you and recommending you to the director, it definitely helps. But regardless of what medical school you go to, you have a shot at a spot for a Californian residency. Just don't take mine, please.

I'm a CA native going to school in NY (not rochester). Just spent my spring break in Davis. Played golf 3 times, sat outside, enjoyed the 70 degree weather, then flew back to 30 and frozen golf courses. I'll try not to take your residency spot Notdeadyet, but I want to take someone's (or my wife will be pissed!)

 

[searun]

OP, go to Davis. It is pretty obvious that you will be much happier at Davis. If you work hard and do well at Davis, you will have plenty of good options for residency.

 

[PokerDoc]

i liive in rochester and cant wait to get out, the weather here sucks ***

 

[BKMD]

I went to Davis for undergrad and now have lived and work at Rochester for almost a year. Here are some things I noticed.

I did not think I would miss the sun that much. A Rochester winter is very dark. The cold and snow did not affect me nearly as much as not having the sun shine. Today it came out in Rochester and I fell much happier. Although this won't matter as much for you, it may matter for your wife. If she becomes s.a.d. due to lack of sunshine it may make your experience more difficult.

The people of Rochester are some of the nicest people I have ever met. My wallet fell out of my pocket on the sidewalk in front of the gym without me know ing and when I arrived home there was a message saying somebody had turned it in. Things like this have been the norm of my experience.

Deciding where to go to school can be a big choice. I think if Rochester offers a unique opportunity that Davis does not than going there may be worth it. Best of luck in your decisions. If you have any questions about the Rochester area feel free to PM me.

 

[Zoroaster]

I went to Davis for undergrad and now have lived and work at Rochester for almost a year. Here are some things I noticed.

I did not think I would miss the sun that much. A Rochester winter is very dark. The cold and snow did not affect me nearly as much as not having the sun shine. Today it came out in Rochester and I fell much happier. Although this won't matter as much for you, it may matter for your wife. If she becomes s.a.d. due to lack of sunshine it may make your experience more difficult.

Wow thanks for all the help. You brought up a good point here. I may be spending all my time in the hospital and the library, but my wife is going to be working and doing her thing each day, so the weather and atmosphere of the town may affect her more than me.

It seems most the Rochester people so far are willing to admit that the weather is a pretty significant negative. Anyone who thinks its not that bad? Or are there any Rochester students who can explain why they went there over other sunnier options?

 

[nogolfinsnow]

Wow thanks for all the help. You brought up a good point here. I may be spending all my time in the hospital and the library, but my wife is going to be working and doing her thing each day, so the weather and atmosphere of the town may affect her more than me.

100% true. I think you and your wife should have a very frank discussion about what would be best for her. You have a choice between 2 good schools, and in all reality one vs the other might not make that big a difference in your overall career outlook. However, her happiness from career opportunities, hobbies, distance from friends and family, etc. will affect the two of you for the next 5 years. I only got into one school, so my wife came with me to the Northeast, but if I had a choice b/t two good schools I would have taken her input into account to a very large degree. She will have to deal with school just as much as you will have to. When you have a big test and need to put in lots of hrs studying, is she going to have anything to do?

 

[MedSoprano]

Thanks for your input notdeadyet!

Yeah I've looked at the match lists for both schools for several years going back. I must have missed some of those anesthesiology matches but I didn't have the lists in front of me while I was writing. Either way, when comparing the two match lists Rochester definitely has more people doing rads, anesthesiology, derm, orthopedic surgery, and things like that. If you're a Davis student maybe you can tell me whether that is the case simply because the students at Davis aren't interested in those things, or do you know a few students who were gunning for derm or ortho but were disappointed on match day?

And I know that the rankings difference isn't significant but everyone always tells me how underrated Rochester is and how they match better than their rank. Plus, the ranking difference for B-school is larger and it makes a bigger difference. But ranking isn't the only reason I'd consider Rochester. I liked their curriculum a lot as well, and 40% of their students do international research, which interests me.

As far as the MD/MBA issue, I actually do have somewhat of a business background. I did my undergraduate in Bus Management plus I've been running my own company for a couple years now. But I'm actually interested in using an MBA for research in healthcare delivery and healthcare policy. I've talked to a few people at both Davis and Rochester about it and I've spoken with a bunch of MD/MBA's, and they've all told me an MD/MBA would be better for that then an MD/MPH. If you have information to the contrary I'd be interested to hear it.

If your interested in healthcare policy, Sacramento is the place to be! I'd bet there's a lot of politics you could get your hands into there if that's your thing.

 

[notdeadyet]

I may be spending all my time in the hospital and the library, but my wife is going to be working and doing her thing each day, so the weather and atmosphere of the town may affect her more than me.

Oh, God, you're married??? Either you didn't mention that or I missed it. My bad.

Christ, go where she wants to go. If you're on the fence between two schools, it means that they are at least comparable in your eyes. I think your wife makes for a much better tie breaker than a bunch of clowns on SDN you've never met.

Your wife's happiness should be paramount. And I don't mean that in a selfless way. A miserable wife is a lot worse than snow.

You're going to move away from you and your spouse's support network. In this new town, you're going to have instant friends, great bonding, lots of shared time, and frantically pursuing your dream. Your wife is going to be lonely, in an unfamiliar town, and probably a little broke (if you aren't yet, you soon will be). She'll want a healthy chunk of your free time and the happier she is, the more that time will be spent enjoying each others company and the less time spent on damage control.

She's probably very excited about you pursuing your dream, but that ends after a few months of med school when it becomes apparent to both of you how much less time you have to devote to the house and your marriage. She'll also learn more about med school and realize that as bad as things are in first year, they will get much worse in third year. And after you pop the champagne and graduate, she'll likely have to move again for an even more hellish experience as you enter internship.

Sorry. Med school is great and I love it. My wife is happy with how things are now and loves Sacramento. But med school is tough on any marriage so the more vested she is in the decision of where to go, the more accountable she'll feel for the decision. I wouldn't toss the decision to my wife, but she'd play a huge roll in deciding if it was between two comparable schools.

 

[Tropicana100]

Oh, God, you're married??? Either you didn't mention that or I missed it. My bad.

Christ, go where she wants to go. If you're on the fence between two schools, it means that they are at least comparable in your eyes. I think your wife makes for a much better tie breaker than a bunch of clowns on SDN you've never met.

Your wife's happiness should be paramount. And I don't mean that in a selfless way. A miserable wife is a lot worse than snow.

You're going to move away from you and your spouse's support network. In this new town, you're going to have instant friends, great bonding, lots of shared time, and frantically pursuing your dream. Your wife is going to be lonely, in an unfamiliar town, and probably a little broke (if you aren't yet, you soon will be). She'll want a healthy chunk of your free time and the happier she is, the more that time will be spent enjoying each others company and the less time spent on damage control.

She's probably very excited about you pursuing your dream, but that ends after a few months of med school when it becomes apparent to both of you how much less time you have to devote to the house and your marriage. She'll also learn more about med school and realize that as bad as things are in first year, they will get much worse in third year. And after you pop the champagne and graduate, she'll likely have to move again for an even more hellish experience as you enter internship.

Sorry. Med school is great and I love it. My wife is happy with how things are now and loves Sacramento. But med school is tough on any marriage so the more vested she is in the decision of where to go, the more accountable she'll feel for the decision. I wouldn't toss the decision to my wife, but she'd play a huge roll in deciding if it was between two comparable schools.

word 👍

 

[Zoroaster]

I don't have to make my final decision for a while still but I'm really strongly leaning towards Davis right now. And my wife and I are certainly discussing this decision in detail, we just wanted to get a few outside opinions as well. Thanks again for the comments.